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Thread: Archive of Strauss and Howe Discussion Thread (July 2 and 3, 2007) - Page 12







Post#276 at 07-13-2007 08:39 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
While we're on the topic of LotR, I've always loved grand, epic stories. Is this a Civic thing?
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#277 at 07-13-2007 08:56 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
While we're on the topic of LotR, I've always loved grand, epic stories. Is this a Civic thing?
No.

typing, typing, typing to take up the minimum number of characters.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#278 at 07-13-2007 09:13 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Question For INTPs?

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
While we're on the topic of LotR, I've always loved grand, epic stories. Is this a Civic thing?
No this Crown of Creation was into the KJV-OT/NT, Homer, Livy, Vergil, Eddas, Kalevala, Mallory, Gibbon, Wagner, Wm. Shirer, Tolstoy, Doris Lessing-Canopus in Argos, C.S. Lewis, Mervyn Peake, Solzhenitsyn, Lady Murasaki, etc. since the High.







Post#279 at 07-13-2007 09:43 PM by Linus [at joined Oct 2005 #posts 1,731]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
hehehe(he)

(message originally only 6 characters and deemed to be of insufficient length)
"Jan, cut the crap."

"It's just a donut."







Post#280 at 07-13-2007 09:50 PM by Linus [at joined Oct 2005 #posts 1,731]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
A question only an Xer would have to ask.
I don't know man. My xer and millenial coworkers routinely take multi-hour breaks to play magic cards and go out on the lawn and fight with wooden swords. I haven't played d&d since in some time but I confess to have spent a number of hours doing so as a lad (no doubt listening to RUSH and eating Domino's pizza) and was forced to buy a deck of magic cards by my boss.
"Jan, cut the crap."

"It's just a donut."







Post#281 at 07-16-2007 01:57 PM by scott 63 [at Birmingham joined Sep 2001 #posts 697]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
While we're on the topic of LotR, I've always loved grand, epic stories. Is this a Civic thing?
Ironically, about three weeks ago I started writing some fantasy lit. Back when I was into the SCA thing, I wrote some tales in verse, some historical and some fanciful. Now I am looking at jotting down a few scenes that I might otherwise confined to my daydreams.

What inspired me partially was T4T's call to act preseasonally by diversifying. Writing is hard work and organizing your thoughts even harder. I am looking on this (along with my blog) as an exercise in developing my written communication skills.
Leave No Child Behind - Teach Evolution.







Post#282 at 07-17-2007 09:52 PM by The Pervert [at A D&D Character sheet joined Jan 2002 #posts 1,169]
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Alan Dershowitz: You are a very strange man.
Claus von Bülow: You have no idea.
That piece of dialog is reproduced almost word-for-word in a scene between Simba and Scar (voiced by Jeremy Irons, who played von Bulow in Reversal of Fortune) in The Lion King. I guess the screen writers wanted to include a little in-joke.
Your local general nuisance
"I am not an alter ego. I am an unaltered id!"







Post#283 at 12-16-2007 01:38 AM by Jesse Manoogian [at The edge of the world in all of Western civilization joined Oct 2001 #posts 448]
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Quote Originally Posted by William Strauss View Post
Many older people can't or won't see it, but go to a health club, and see who is more modest than whom--50somethings or teenagers.
Definitely the fiftysomethings/Boomers.

When I was on Teleboards, we had a debate about indecent exposure laws. The board was divided over whether they violate freedom and encode arbitrary judgments that nudity is wrong, or whether they protect privacy (a nonsensical argument) and protect children from seeing naked people. The vast majority of us (myself included) opposed indecent exposure laws, with only a few holdouts who said society can choose to disapprove of (and enforce its disapproval of) anything it wants. This board is made up of people in their teens through mid-twenties. You would never see the Baby Boomers accepting nudity in public today, and indecent exposure laws will probably stay on the books until 95% of Boomers are dead.

What male Boomers and Millennials wear while they're asleep also shows the Boomers to be much less body-baring. Most Boomer men will wear pajamas, bottom and top, sleeves full length, while Millennial boys wear boxer shorts.
"Fourth Turning, my ass." -- Justin '79

"Nothing is sacred." -- Craig '84

"That sucks. " -- William '84







Post#284 at 12-16-2007 07:36 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Manoogian View Post
... What male Boomers and Millennials wear while they're asleep also shows the Boomers to be much less body-baring. Most Boomer men will wear pajamas, bottom and top, sleeves full length, while Millennial boys wear boxer shorts.
I don't think so. I haven't even owned pajamas for over 40 years ... except for the pajama bottoms my daughter-in-law bought me to wear outdoors. I walk in them when it's too cold for shorts.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#285 at 12-16-2007 09:14 AM by Uzi [at joined Oct 2005 #posts 2,254]
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Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
I don't know man. My xer and millenial coworkers routinely take multi-hour breaks to play magic cards and go out on the lawn and fight with wooden swords. I haven't played d&d since in some time but I confess to have spent a number of hours doing so as a lad (no doubt listening to RUSH and eating Domino's pizza) and was forced to buy a deck of magic cards by my boss.
My favorite part of d&d was rolling for charisma points. There's nothing like having your friend tell you that his elf is far more charismatic than your dwarf. I mean we are talking about a seriously charismatic elf here, the Mick Jagger of elves ...
"It's easy to grin, when your ship's come in, and you've got the stock market beat. But the man who's worth while is the man who can smile when his pants are too tight in the seat." Judge Smails, Caddyshack.

"Every man with a bellyful of the classics is an enemy of the human race." Henry Miller.

1979 - Generation Perdu







Post#286 at 12-16-2007 10:32 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
I don't think so. I haven't even owned pajamas for over 40 years ... except for the pajama bottoms my daughter-in-law bought me to wear outdoors. I walk in them when it's too cold for shorts.
Not me. When I'm alone (which is five weeks out of six), if I didn't wear pajamas or sweats to bed, I'd freeze to death no matter how many blankets I'm layered under.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#287 at 12-17-2007 01:52 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Not me. When I'm alone (which is five weeks out of six), if I didn't wear pajamas or sweats to bed, I'd freeze to death no matter how many blankets I'm layered under.
I sleep in my birthday suit -- alone or not (well, I usually have a cat keeping my toes warm sleeping on top of the blanket). However, I wear pajamas (sweats and a tunic top) around the house either immediately after waking up or before going to bed.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#288 at 12-17-2007 03:13 PM by The Pervert [at A D&D Character sheet joined Jan 2002 #posts 1,169]
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Cool

Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
My favorite part of d&d was rolling for charisma points. There's nothing like having your friend tell you that his elf is far more charismatic than your dwarf. I mean we are talking about a seriously charismatic elf here, the Mick Jagger of elves ...
It figures that the guy who razzed me about being a geek for playing board games is an ex-D&Der who got off over the most useless of all the stats in the game.
Your local general nuisance
"I am not an alter ego. I am an unaltered id!"







Post#289 at 12-17-2007 05:37 PM by kalima62 [at Oklahoma, USA joined Nov 2007 #posts 171]
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Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Manoogian View Post
In S&H's 2002 blog, William Strauss made a mention of these "lawless video games" and stated that the kind of violence that goes on in these games is more Boomer violence than Hero violence, and he can't understand why Millennials are playing these games because Hero violence is supposed to be of the Establishment type.

It was the only time I've ever seen Bill stumped by something.
Video and online games are extremely black/white; pure Millie goodness







Post#290 at 12-17-2007 05:39 PM by kalima62 [at Oklahoma, USA joined Nov 2007 #posts 171]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
While we're on the topic of LotR, I've always loved grand, epic stories. Is this a Civic thing?
JRR Tolkien (1892) was a core Lost. He wrote LOTR seeded with many images of the horrors of WWI.

Epics may appeal to Civics, but LOTR ended with Frodo so traumatized he ended up going into the West. Not your typical epic where good conquers evil and hero beds heroine.







Post#291 at 12-17-2007 10:50 PM by Pink Splice [at St. Louis MO (They Built An Entire Country Around Us) joined Apr 2005 #posts 5,439]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Pervert View Post
It figures that the guy who razzed me about being a geek for playing board games is an ex-D&Der who got off over the most useless of all the stats in the game.
Most of us have moved on to the Euro games; they are much easier to schedule than a long-running campaign.







Post#292 at 12-18-2007 05:46 AM by The Pervert [at A D&D Character sheet joined Jan 2002 #posts 1,169]
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Quote Originally Posted by Pink Splice View Post
Most of us have moved on to the Euro games; they are much easier to schedule than a long-running campaign.
Euro games? Do tell.

I'm more likely to play a MMORPG. My fiancee plays Final Fantasy XI. She wants me to join. I almost did, but the software didn't load properly. I'll try again over winter break, when I'll uninstall it then reinstall it.
Your local general nuisance
"I am not an alter ego. I am an unaltered id!"







Post#293 at 12-18-2007 09:32 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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Quote Originally Posted by kalima62 View Post
Video and online games are extremely black/white; pure Millie goodness
Millennial and indeed Civic Violence is of a collective, with a purpose type as opposed to individualistic and/or nihilistic kind which is a feature of Idealist and Reactive generations.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#294 at 12-18-2007 09:33 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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Quote Originally Posted by zilch View Post
Alas, I cannot. The line belongs to Rush Limbaugh. He's a big fan, btw, of Strauss and Howe's generational theory. In fact, S&H have been personal visitors (ie., friendly) to Limbaugh's personal Death Star abode on occasion... perhaps this is enough for liberals to call into question the legitimacy of the S&H theory of history?

I mean, it's one thing for libs to defend a murderer like Claus von Bülow (or even Josef Stalin), it is quite another thing to be on the same page as such consummate Limbaughian evil is any shape manner or form.
Newt Grinrich is a fan of Generations from what I have heard, that might explains he seems to be acting like he is the Next Winston Churchill as of late.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#295 at 12-18-2007 09:48 AM by The Young Rebel- '90 [at Columbia, SC joined Aug 2007 #posts 165]
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He ain't no GC

I hope not ol' boy is still stuck on 3T issues and I really wouldn't want the war I may die in to become some kind of Christian vs unbelievers thing. I don't fight for shit I don't believe in.
I'm 20 man I can't even believe that, can I even call myself young anymore?
INFP Core Millie







Post#296 at 01-02-2008 03:32 AM by James E. F. Landau [at Moraga, CA joined Oct 2001 #posts 250]
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Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Manoogian View Post
Definitely the fiftysomethings/Boomers.

When I was on Teleboards, we had a debate about indecent exposure laws.
While I find Teleboards to have some worthwhile debates, there are too many trolls and fire-breathing dragons on that board for it to be really worth visiting. Plus there are a lot of lazy jerks who refuse to read a post you made if it's too long for them.

The board was divided over whether they violate freedom and encode arbitrary judgments that nudity is wrong, or whether they protect privacy (a nonsensical argument) and protect children from seeing naked people. The vast majority of us (myself included) opposed indecent exposure laws, with only a few holdouts who said society can choose to disapprove of (and enforce its disapproval of) anything it wants. This board is made up of people in their teens through mid-twenties. You would never see the Baby Boomers accepting nudity in public today, and indecent exposure laws will probably stay on the books until 95% of Boomers are dead.
As for my reason to question the "modesty" of the Bittersweet Generation: When I go into a public restroom, even if it's a restroom for men only, people born before circa 1975 will refuse to share it with me if there's only one toilet in the room. People my age don't have a problem with it.







Post#297 at 01-02-2008 04:09 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
Newt Grinrich is a fan of Generations from what I have heard, that might explains he seems to be acting like he is the Next Winston Churchill as of late.

Obviously it is the deepest arrogance to believe that one is the next Churchill, FDR, Lincoln, or Gandhi. Gingrich, unlike Churchill, chose the political wilderness. Did he know something that we didn't know about the neocon clique? Or was that pure luck?

I suspect the latter.







Post#298 at 01-02-2008 01:38 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by James E. F. Landau View Post
... As for my reason to question the "modesty" of the Bittersweet Generation: When I go into a public restroom, even if it's a restroom for men only, people born before circa 1975 will refuse to share it with me if there's only one toilet in the room. People my age don't have a problem with it.
Not that I want to rain on your parade, but I've had the virtual mirror of your experience. Younger males tend to use the facilities with doors closed, but older men don't seem to mind the elbow-to-elbow public facilities nearly as much. When I was a boy, it was not atypical for the urinal in some places to be a long trough. No privacy there, albeit male only.

Of course, we Americans are far more private than most. Public urination by both genders was common in Japan when I was there in the late '60s. Even the restrooms in upscale restaurants and clubs were gender neutral, with men and women using the same facilities at the same time.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#299 at 01-21-2008 12:52 AM by James E. F. Landau [at Moraga, CA joined Oct 2001 #posts 250]
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Just discovered this response . . .

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Not that I want to rain on your parade, but I've had the virtual mirror of your experience. Younger males tend to use the facilities with doors closed, but older men don't seem to mind the elbow-to-elbow public facilities nearly as much. When I was a boy, it was not atypical for the urinal in some places to be a long trough. No privacy there, albeit male only.

Of course, we Americans are far more private than most. Public urination by both genders was common in Japan when I was there in the late '60s. Even the restrooms in upscale restaurants and clubs were gender neutral, with men and women using the same facilities at the same time.
Hmmmm . . . I mainly had the Xers in mind when I talked about people born before 1975. The occasional Boomer will be willing to share a restroom with me even if there are no stalls, but the Xers won't think of it, which surprises me. And of course, the Silents are willing to go in with you.

People even younger than Xers, however, will be willing to share even if I'll be able to see them pissing, or they'll be able to see me. Just not raised to think that these body parts are evil, perhaps.

Boxer short boy here.
Last edited by James E. F. Landau; 01-21-2008 at 01:04 AM.
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