It could be argued that none of the four current American generations (Silents, Boomers, Xers, Millennials) have embraced 4T roles yet. Silents still cling to influence in political leadership, having lost cultural control many years ago - they are far from a non-factor in society as is required for a 4T. Boomers in Washington still bicker away while Boomers at home helicopter-parent their children through college and "remake" their lives so they can prove their hipness for another 25 years - no somber elder Gray Champions yet. And Millies, optimistic and resistant to apathy as they may be, still essentially spend their time IMing, MySpaceing, and Facebooking rather than organizing youth activism or taking over the culture.

Xers may be the slowest to take the cold shower, though. As the oldest of them hit 45, many of them still act like cynical and free-spirited youth. I don't yet see signs of the reversing-course expected of Nomads in midlife, in which they work to broaden gender differences, simplify their lives, settle down, and "get serious". Many Xers are having their first kids at 40 or older, and most that I talk to are still in a very 3T frame of mind. While Silents and Boomers sense doom and gloom around the corner (however irrationally), Xers that I meet still think it will only take a few key fixes - a better President, a better Congress, a better real estate market - to avoid looming societal problems and return to the "good old days" (whenever those were).

Perhaps all generations are still thinking 3T because the final catalyst is not here. But is it just me, or are the Xers especially slow to come to the table?

I think the factor driving all this may be the inherent diversity of Generation X. S&H themselves say that Generation X is hard to pin down because they don't have a "generational core". While at least the Lost Generation had its epitomic archetype (the black-dressed bohemian alienated by World War I and Prohibition who drinks coffee and reads European poets and Julian Green in Parisian coffeeshops), just as the Greatest Generation and Baby Boomers had in their own heydays, Generation X has no one type that epitomizes the generation. In high school and college, Xers were punks, grungers, preppies, hip-hoppers/rappers, goths, industrials, skaters, Birkenstocked neo-hippies, "new" country good old boys, new-wavers, valley girls and the first emo kids (before the generation to which you and I belong took over emo).

For this reason, I don't think Generation X, as a collective, will ever be as family-oriented as the Lost Generation. It's just too diverse, with too many types of people, to have a landslide majority shift over to the conservative, curmudgeonly, Von-Trappesque home-and-hearth homey family protectors S&H say they're supposed to become.

Originally Posted by 1990

It could be argued that none of the four current American generations (Silents, Boomers, Xers, Millennials) have embraced 4T roles yet. Silents still cling to influence in political leadership, having lost cultural control many years ago - they are far from a non-factor in society as is required for a 4T. Boomers in Washington still bicker away while Boomers at home helicopter-parent their children through college and "remake" their lives so they can prove their hipness for another 25 years - no somber elder Gray Champions yet. And Millies, optimistic and resistant to apathy as they may be, still essentially spend their time IMing, MySpaceing, and Facebooking rather than organizing youth activism or taking over the culture.

Xers may be the slowest to take the cold shower, though. As the oldest of them hit 45, many of them still act like cynical and free-spirited youth. I don't yet see signs of the reversing-course expected of Nomads in midlife, in which they work to broaden gender differences, simplify their lives, settle down, and "get serious". Many Xers are having their first kids at 40 or older, and most that I talk to are still in a very 3T frame of mind. While Silents and Boomers sense doom and gloom around the corner (however irrationally), Xers that I meet still think it will only take a few key fixes - a better President, a better Congress, a better real estate market - to avoid looming societal problems and return to the "good old days" (whenever those were).

Perhaps all generations are still thinking 3T because the final catalyst is not here. But is it just me, or are the Xers especially slow to come to the table?

I disagree. In fact, I think that Generation X has been leading the shift. Xers apparently began to hit their hangover with the Dot.Com crash early in the decade. I don't see Xers as still being in their free-spirited youth. I have many Xer uncles who were criminals and spent a lot of time in jail. But they seem to be mellowing out in this day and age. Early in the decade, many articles started to appear about Xers finally starting to settle down and raise families.

IMO, post 9/11 society witnessed the midlife transition. In the aftermath of 9/11, Boomer soccer-moms turned into Xer security-moms. The popularity of conservative ideology during the first half of this decade was driven by the last wave Boomers and first wave Xers. Two of my uncles managed to stay out of trouble, and they were both first wave, relatively conservative (but Democrat voting) Xers. Xers have always been a rather conservative generation. But their conservatism during this decade has been tied to the perceived destruction of society and of the family by 1960s-era liberalism. I think that Xers are rather far along in comparison to other generations.

I'm not so sure about the Boomers, though. I don't doubt that there are Boomers who are moving towards the elder Idealist mindset. They are just not (yet) visible in public life.

Given the rise in youth activism over the decade, I would say that Millies are moving into their youth stage of adulthood. As for taking over the culture, I would argue that Millies are actually well on their way to it. You won't see it on ABC, as the cultural takeover is most visible on the Internet.

I don't think that the mood of the nation is accurately reflected in the television shows, movies, or in popular music. And keep in mind that GIs did not take over popular culture until the late 1930s. It's like the situation in reverse in 1966. During that time, Boomers were exercising a disproportional influence in the popular culture, but the institutional regime remained in solid control of the GIs until Boomers started hitting 30 in the early 1970s. Today, the Millennials already exercise disproportional power in politics. But Millennials will not take over the popular culture until they turn 30. Meanwhile, by that time, Millennials could very well exercise more public power than any other generation.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

Today, the Millennials already exercise disproportional power in politics. But Millennials will not take over the popular culture until they turn 30. Meanwhile, by that time, Millennials could very well exercise more public power than any other generation.

The Millennials didn't exercise disproportionate political power in the aftermath of 9/11. Instead, the Boomers' conservative love affair with Bush and the Boomer ideology of neoconservatism were what drove politics. One could point to the political demarches of the day being Boomer-driven rather than Millennial-driven as an argument against 9/11 starting the 4T. Columnists painted homeland security, the pet cause of the Boomers, as the only important issue (and starting in 2002, the Iraq War). Causes fought for by people our age (like anti-globalization, the liberation of Tibet, drug legalization, Earth First environmental activism, animal rights, youth rights, civil liberties after 9/11, or even opposition to Shrubbleyou's oil war in Afghanistan) were attacked virulently by columnists and journalists who tried to marginalize our causes and insisted that we did not care about the people killed in the tragedy. The slimy, reptilian Boomer parading of "unity" and chants of "United we stand" still dominated discourse in Washington and the media; supporting the erosion of civil liberties and racial profiling and beating up Sikh people while saying "Look at me, I'm patriotic!" became the forms of political expression du jour. A very late-Boomer type of thinking, not early-Millennial/Gen-Y. Bush got his oil wars and was happy. Neocons repeatedly used the word "irrelevant" to describe anybody who opposed Bush's politics on any issue or cared about any issue unrelated to the wars on terrorism and Iraq. Politicians in Washington focused on how to buttress America from attacks (protecting America and its status quo) and violate civil liberties for greater "security" (SJ), not how to look for the root of the attacks (what precipitated the terrorists to execute 9/11) and make America better (NT).

If Millennials have crossed over the point into influencing politics, it must have been in the last three years.

Hmmmm, my Mozilla spell-checker doesn't know "Boomers", "neoconservatism" or "du jour".

Originally Posted by 1990

It could be argued that none of the four current American generations (Silents, Boomers, Xers, Millennials) have embraced 4T roles yet. Silents still cling to influence in political leadership, having lost cultural control many years ago - they are far from a non-factor in society as is required for a 4T. Boomers in Washington still bicker away while Boomers at home helicopter-parent their children through college and "remake" their lives so they can prove their hipness for another 25 years - no somber elder Gray Champions yet. And Millies, optimistic and resistant to apathy as they may be, still essentially spend their time IMing, MySpaceing, and Facebooking rather than organizing youth activism or taking over the culture.

Xers may be the slowest to take the cold shower, though. As the oldest of them hit 45, many of them still act like cynical and free-spirited youth. I don't yet see signs of the reversing-course expected of Nomads in midlife, in which they work to broaden gender differences, simplify their lives, settle down, and "get serious". Many Xers are having their first kids at 40 or older, and most that I talk to are still in a very 3T frame of mind. While Silents and Boomers sense doom and gloom around the corner (however irrationally), Xers that I meet still think it will only take a few key fixes - a better President, a better Congress, a better real estate market - to avoid looming societal problems and return to the "good old days" (whenever those were).

Perhaps all generations are still thinking 3T because the final catalyst is not here. But is it just me, or are the Xers especially slow to come to the table?

Kiddo, a generation who isn't swayed, scared or panics very easily is probably a good thing to have in place.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

The popularity of conservative ideology during the first half of this decade was driven by the last wave Boomers and first wave Xers.

We haven't seen any conservative ideology in this decade. What we have seen is fascist ideology, and that does seem to have its most devoted following among last-wave Boomers. I can think of very few fellow first-wave Xers I know in real life who have been big on the fascism of the Bush administration. But I can think of a whole lot of Silents I know who have run a whole lot of interference for it. Regardless, fascism, today and in the past, really does seem to cater to last-wave Prophets in particular.

I agree with Robert. I thought Xers were closer to their 4T role than anyone else.

Originally Posted by Mustang

We haven't seen any conservative ideology in this decade. What we have seen is fascist ideology, and that does seem to have its most devoted following among last-wave Boomers. I can think of very few fellow first-wave Xers I know in real life who have been big on the fascism of the Bush administration. But I can think of a whole lot of Silents I know who have run a whole lot of interference for it. Regardless, fascism, today and in the past, really does seem to cater to last-wave Prophets in particular.

Sorry, but the 1st wave Xers are as much in the neocon camp as the last wave Boomers ... maybe more. Because of this cross-generational alliance, Generation Jones may be the most powerful non-generational generation of all time. They are also seeing their time ending, I think.

The one point of agreement I do have with your post: the 1st wave Xers will abandon the BS neoconartsists long before their last wave Boomer allies. The remnants will be all Boom.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Sorry, but the 1st wave Xers are as much in the neocon camp as the last wave Boomers

I don't know where you get that. Sure can't find it in everyday life. Sure can't find it among my peers. I don't see this "alliance" you see between last-wave Boomers and first-wave Xers. With very few exceptions, the only first-wave Xers I have encountered who wholeheartedly support the Bush administration have been Xer "evangelicals" who have been brainwashed into believing that Junior stands at the right hand of God and can do no wrong. But that is a distinct minority of Xers locked into a Boomer thought pattern. And they are theocrats anyway, not "neo-cons." "Neoconism" (fascism) is a fetish of Boomers, and last-wave Boomers in particular. Once you enter "Xerdom," you get the cynical rolling of eyes and the "Yeah, right!" That's a sharp contrast from the preceding last-wave Boomers, not a continuity.

"Get serious about what?", he said as he rubbed his goatee, drinking fair trade Starbucks coffee. "And where exactly is this table of which you speak?" he added as he contemplated a new space on his arm for a potential tattoo.

I've thought of myself as fairly serious for at least the last ten years. Probably, it's been basically true for at least the last seven. Of course, it seems a bit coarse to make a point of throwing one's seriousness up in the faces of others.

Further, serious people don't need your table. At least so far as my experience tends to indicate.

The plethora of articles would seem to suggest otherwise

http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifesty...ion-usat_x.htm
http://www.thestar.com/Article/172206

http://www.parentingideas.com.au/pdf...ial_report.pdf

http://www.father.com/article.php?si...nested&order=0

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...-parents_x.htm

http://www.hospitalitynet.org/news//4027475.html

http://www.toydirectory.com/monthly/article.asp?id=1328

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/...095908998.html

www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2003/1347/t_inloco.html

http://www.ellacentre.com/media-torontostar-jan07.htm

http://thestar.blogs.com/parenting/2...x_parents.html

For years now, Gen Xers have been leading the generational shift towards the 4T. Several of these articles are dated as early as 2004/2005. Even midlife comedies such as Knocked Up seem to profess the importance of family values. By this time, it is clear that Gen Xers have already assumed their midlife roles as over-protective and "no-nonsense" parents. And this will only become even more evident in coming years ahead. In fact, I'd say that no other generation has witnesed as many trends that have dramatically diverged from their 3T roles. Even in terms of Iraq, Gen Xers account for the majority of junior officers, and have arguably been hardest hit by the war. Since they are the ones who have families, every term they serve abroad jepordizes their marital affairs (increases the prospect of divorce) and defers ruinous financial liabilities. Very much 4T-ish indeed.

If any generation has been disapointing in progressing towards their 4T roles, it has easily been the Boomers. Rather than trying to cultivate elderly wisdom or assume moral stewardship, many hip Boomers are still trying to preserve their youthfulness, much like their Silent Seniors - donning the latest fashions, trying out the newest fitness methods, or using the latest brands of age-preventive cosmetics. Just look at the pop culture of every generation. Mille sitcoms are light-hearted affairs that are entirely wholesome (e.g. The High School Musical), contain heroic-themes (e.g. Heroes), and have exceptionally-talented "can-do" protagonists who are capable of achieving daunting challenges (e.g. Nancy Drew). IMO, all of these elements are in tune with the Millenials' coming-of-age desire for a heroic carthasis. The foremost Gen-X shows have dark and nihilist plots that contain pragmatic midlife characters whose exploits are defined by tangible goals - whether its solving a muder (the Thirtyish investigators of the CSI and Law and Order series) or neutralizing terrorist networks in the name of national security (the fortyish secret agents of 24). All of this would seem to indicate that Gen Xers are prepared to assume their midlife roles as realist and taciturn leaders, who can get all the dirty work done. Meanwhile, Boomer sitcoms are ridden with tastless plots of self-indulgent characters. Take Twenty Good Years for example. This show portrays the two sixtyish Boomers who live every day like it is their last, since they figured at their age, they have "twenty good years" to live. In every episode, the protagonists take pleasure in their sexual escapades and risk-prone adventures. Geez, when will Boomer grow up for a change The whole point of being an Idealist is not to imitate the youth, but to make the youth imitate you

Even moreso, Boomers are probably the worst generation of politicians in our history. No other generation has accumulated our national debt so carelessly, no other generation has done more to polarize and divide this country along ideological lines, no other generation has done more to harm this nation's prestige and honor, no other genetration has accomplished so little in changing our country for the better, and no other generation has gotten us into war so hastily and irresponsibly. Far from providing inspirational leaders, Boomers have so far given us two dissapointing presidents - one who was fiscally-sound but not responsive to social ills and had a notorious reputation for womanizing (Bill Clinton) and another whose absurd child-like behavior has put us on the path to ruin. So if any generation needs a wake-up call, it's the Boomers!

Originally Posted by Mustang

I don't know where you get that. Sure can't find it in everyday life. Sure can't find it among my peers. I don't see this "alliance" you see between last-wave Boomers and first-wave Xers. With very few exceptions, the only first-wave Xers I have encountered who wholeheartedly support the Bush administration have been Xer "evangelicals" who have been brainwashed into believing that Junior stands at the right hand of God and can do no wrong. But that is a distinct minority of Xers locked into a Boomer thought pattern. And they are theocrats anyway, not "neo-cons." "Neoconism" (fascism) is a fetish of Boomers, and last-wave Boomers in particular. Once you enter "Xerdom," you get the cynical rolling of eyes and the "Yeah, right!" That's a sharp contrast from the preceding last-wave Boomers, not a continuity.

Sorry man, I really don't see the connection between Neo-conservatism and fascism. Geez, only a Jacksonian would be so stupid not to recognize oil as being a vital and strategic importance to our overall national interest. BTW, my comments aren't fascist in context. My comments are just realistic in a modern day context. I would agree with you that none of my peers are fascists.

Originally Posted by Mustang

We haven't seen any conservative ideology in this decade. What we have seen is fascist ideology, and that does seem to have its most devoted following among last-wave Boomers. I can think of very few fellow first-wave Xers I know in real life who have been big on the fascism of the Bush administration. But I can think of a whole lot of Silents I know who have run a whole lot of interference for it. Regardless, fascism, today and in the past, really does seem to cater to last-wave Prophets in particular.

There are many different brands of conservatism. There is the Bush regime fascist conservatism. Then there is cultural conservatism. Then there is paleoconservatism, libertarian conservatism, and some other sorts.

The brand of conservatism I am referring to is cultural conservatism. During the first half of this decade, the cultural and fascist conservatives were able to form an alliance. Actually, this alliance had existed since Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson became popular during the late Awakening and early Unraveling. 9/11 solidified the alliance.

Many first wave Xers do tend to be cultural conservatives. In fact, Generation Jones is the strongest cultural conservative voting bracket. Oddly, however, the average age of the Fox News watcher seems to be early wave Boomer and Silent. Many Xers are also fascist conservatives. But a lot more of them tend to be libertarian. As for the Boomer cultural conservatives, the "cultural" component of their conservatism overrides the "political" component, and they are more likely to support any group that supports them. If the libertarian conservatives become the main supporters of cultural conservatism, then I expect to see Boomers flock to libertarian groups.

In the post-Katrina era the alliance between the fascist and cultural conservatives broke apart. The libertarian conservatives (Ron Paul, for instance) and paleoconservatives had never been part of the alliance. The difference in the agendas of the various conservative blocs became much more obvious.

Originally Posted by Jesse Manoogian

The Millennials didn't exercise disproportionate political power in the aftermath of 9/11. Instead, the Boomers' conservative love affair with Bush and the Boomer ideology of neoconservatism were what drove politics...If Millennials have crossed over the point into influencing politics, it must have been in the last three years.

Yes, the Millie influence has been in the past three years.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

There are many different brands of conservatism. There is the Bush regime fascist conservatism. Then there is cultural conservatism. Then there is paleoconservatism, libertarian conservatism, and some other sorts.

The brand of conservatism I am referring to is cultural conservatism. During the first half of this decade, the cultural and fascist conservatives were able to form an alliance. Actually, this alliance had existed since Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson became popular during the late Awakening and early Unraveling. 9/11 solidified the alliance.

Many first wave Xers do tend to be cultural conservatives. In fact, Generation Jones is the strongest cultural conservative voting bracket. Oddly, however, the average age of the Fox News watcher seems to be early wave Boomer and Silent. Many Xers are also fascist conservatives. But a lot more of them tend to be libertarian. As for the Boomer cultural conservatives, the "cultural" component of their conservatism overrides the "political" component, and they are more likely to support any group that supports them. If the libertarian conservatives become the main supporters of cultural conservatism, then I expect to see Boomers flock to libertarian groups.

In the post-Katrina era the alliance between the fascist and cultural conservatives broke apart. The libertarian conservatives (Ron Paul, for instance) and paleoconservatives had never been part of the alliance. The difference in the agendas of the various conservative blocs became much more obvious.

Robert, very good analysis. But it unnecessarily blurs key philosophical distinctions simply to label anybody who identifies, or has identified, with the Republican Party as automatically some hyphenated form of conservative. The "neo-cons" began as radicals, Trotskyites, and big boosters of LBJ, about as far from conservatism as one can possibly get. They merely transfered their leftist baggage to the Republican Party after the Carter years without changing their "Progressive" outlook and Wilsonian foreign policy one whit. All they did was put on a more conservative suit of clothes. Underneath the clothes remained the worst excesses of the political Left, proudly maintained and absolutely unchanged.

They were not then conservatives and they are not now conservatives. They were radicals then and are fascists now. All they have changed is their rhetoric in order to appeal to a different audience. This is precisely the same thing that Mussolini, Hitler, and the rest did a saeculum ago. None of the earlier fascists were ever conservatives. They were Anarchists disillusioned with the direction of the Socialist Left who sought a new support base on the Right (social conservatives). And today's "neo-cons" have pursued precisely the same course. But at no point did yesterday's fascists become conservatives, and at no point will today's fascists ("neo-cons") ever become conservatives either. They merely tailor their rhetoric to create a support base among "social conservatives." Big difference.

Originally Posted by Millennial_90'

Even moreso, Boomers are probably the worst generation of politicians in our history. No other generation has accumulated our national debt so carelessly,

Actually, it was the GIs who began the trend. Debt accumulation is a dysfunctional effect of the GI civic order.

No other generation has done more to polarize and divide this country along ideological lines, no other generation has done more to harm this nation's prestige and honor, no other genetration has accomplished so little in changing our country for the better, and no other generation has gotten us into war so hastily and irresponsibly. Far from providing inspirational leaders, Boomers have so far given us two dissapointing presidents - one who was fiscally-sound but not responsive to social ills and had a notorious reputation for womanizing (Bill Clinton) and another whose absurd child-like behavior has put us on the path to ruin. So if any generation needs a wake-up call, it's the Boomers!

For being a 3T president, Clinton was not bad. 3T politicians do not have good reputations from the lenses of history, and in fact have the worst reputations. I don't mind Clinton's womanizing, save for the fact that he was married. If he was single, his womanizing would've made him a hero.

Originally Posted by Millennial_90'

Even moreso, Boomers are probably the worst generation of politicians in our history. No other generation has accumulated our national debt so carelessly, no other generation has done more to polarize and divide this country along ideological lines, no other generation has done more to harm this nation's prestige and honor, no other genetration has accomplished so little in changing our country for the better, and no other generation has gotten us into war so hastily and irresponsibly. Far from providing inspirational leaders, Boomers have so far given us two dissapointing presidents - one who was fiscally-sound but not responsive to social ills and had a notorious reputation for womanizing (Bill Clinton) and another whose absurd child-like behavior has put us on the path to ruin. So if any generation needs a wake-up call, it's the Boomers!

Yep, it seems blaming the Boomers is still very much in fashion. Geez, are they getting a tough rap with history. Has there been so much criticism of a Prophet generation since the Transies?

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

Actually, it was the GIs who began the trend. Debt accumulation is a dysfunctional effect of the GI civic order.

I'd have to say it was more of a dysfunctional effect of the blue awakening.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

Actually, it was the GIs who began the trend. Debt accumulation is a dysfunctional effect of the GI civic order.

Boomers sure as hell didn't do much to make it better

Originally Posted by 1990

Yep, it seems blaming the Boomers is still very much in fashion. Geez, are they getting a tough rap with history. Has there been so much criticism of a Prophet generation since the Transies?

Its criticism that is well-deserved my friend. If they weren't such hypocrits, I'd be a lot easier on them. But its one thing to fuck up, its another to fuck up and pretend your saving the nation

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Sorry, but the 1st wave Xers are as much in the neocon camp as the last wave Boomers ... maybe more.

I'd say sort of. On the vast majority off issues that has held. I think the key difference is this side of 1960 never got into the religous right part.

Because of this cross-generational alliance, Generation Jones may be the most powerful non-generational generation of all time. They are also seeing their time ending, I think.

Dunno, You may want to check a couple of things The first is the 2000 census numbers. 1956-1965 is just fricking huge. Those 2 5 year bars stick out. There is an issue which is just driving us nuts. Illegal immigration has a stirred up quite a nest. OK, we had, I think 2 bills passed, but never enforced, and I read today, where our stupid Federal Government put a road barrier on Mexican territory. They used a 19th century fence to define the border. This is just fucking stupid. Haven't these people heard of something called GPS? It's going to cost 3 million dollars to fix that

The one point of agreement I do have with your post: the 1st wave Xers will abandon the BS neoconartsists long before their last wave Boomer allies. The remnants will be all Boom.

Probably so, if Silents like Kennedy don't go waxing off extending civil rights and the like to people who are not citizens and are actually felons. His speach on that deep sixed piece of shit immigration "compomise" made my blood boil. So yeah, there some stuff I'll probably drop, but there are still some non negotiables.

1. Illegal aliens.
2. Iraq War is lame, (this may be a split)
3. If you make a threat, make sure you have all your ducks in a row and actually carry through. We learned that in "jungle school".

Originally Posted by Millennial_90'

Even in terms of Iraq, Gen Xers account for the majority of junior officers, and have arguably been hardest hit by the war. Since they are the ones who have families, every term they serve abroad jepordizes their marital affairs (increases the prospect of divorce) and defers ruinous financial liabilities. Very much 4T-ish indeed.

Very accurate. My sometimes-boss (1972 cohort) is about to make Major, and is ribbing me about finally outranking me.

These guys are the future leadership of the armed forces. You think Iraq might shape thier outlook a bit?

Originally Posted by 1990

Yep, it seems blaming the Boomers is still very much in fashion. Geez, are they getting a tough rap with history. Has there been so much criticism of a Prophet generation since the Transies?

We deserve the rap, and it's being done in front of the world on TV and the internet.

There will *be* no mercy.

Originally Posted by Mustang

Robert, very good analysis. But it unnecessarily blurs key philosophical distinctions simply to label anybody who identifies, or has identified, with the Republican Party as automatically some hyphenated form of conservative. The "neo-cons" began as radicals, Trotskyites, and big boosters of LBJ, about as far from conservatism as one can possibly get. They merely transfered their leftist baggage to the Republican Party after the Carter years without changing their "Progressive" outlook and Wilsonian foreign policy one whit. All they did was put on a more conservative suit of clothes. Underneath the clothes remained the worst excesses of the political Left, proudly maintained and absolutely unchanged.

They were not then conservatives and they are not now conservatives. They were radicals then and are fascists now. All they have changed is their rhetoric in order to appeal to a different audience. This is precisely the same thing that Mussolini, Hitler, and the rest did a saeculum ago. None of the earlier fascists were ever conservatives. They were Anarchists disillusioned with the direction of the Socialist Left who sought a new support base on the Right (social conservatives). And today's "neo-cons" have pursued precisely the same course. But at no point did yesterday's fascists become conservatives, and at no point will today's fascists ("neo-cons") ever become conservatives either. They merely tailor their rhetoric to create a support base among "social conservatives." Big difference.

Chris Seamens would not resemble this, would he? He started out on the anarchist left, then fought to bring Democracy (tm) to Iraq.

Naaahh. It's just the Wagner playing in the background when he posts.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Sorry, but the 1st wave Xers are as much in the neocon camp as the last wave Boomers ... maybe more. Because of this cross-generational alliance, Generation Jones may be the most powerful non-generational generation of all time. They are also seeing their time ending, I think.

As is true of other boomers and X'ers, jonesers are highly individualistic. Don't be surprised if the progressive members of this cusp emerge and make a difference as the 4t unfolds. 2006 was a big turn for people in my age group, it could be argued the the strong vote for Reagan in 1980 marked the beginning of joneser adulthood, the Democratic flip in 2006 will likely be remembered as the start of joneser midlife. I can't say where we're going yet, but it won't be back to the past.