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Thread: When will Gen Xers get serious? - Page 7







Post#151 at 09-13-2007 08:49 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
I am to a large degree both a social and fiscal conservative... and needless to say I don't want to return to "pre-civil-rights-era thinking".

While I laud today's progressive outlook of people being free to choose friends and significant others of different shades and religions, I do not like the so-called "multiculturalist" mentality that many social liberals have... of group membership trumping individuality. Such causes people to focus on differences over similarities, which undermines the very "peace, love and happiness" they claim to stand for.

In sexual matters... well, I do it, and so do lots of others. I'd rather not have my nose rubbed in what should be a private domain, though. Nowadays, it seems that if you don't advertise your sexuality in some way, you are considered weak. That attitude I'd like to see Go Away.

Is "fiscal conservatism" a misnomer? Perhaps. I think of it as not spending what you don't have, lest you rue the day when a bill you cannot pay comes due.

On a societal level, spending money on social programs intended to provide a temporary safety net is a good thing... by preventing people from becoming destitute, you enable them to pay the money back in the form of taxes when they're on their feet again. Throwing good money after bad on the other hand, as in the old welfare system where people were encouraged not to work, was a lose-lose proposition for everyone involved.

On a personal level, being fiscally conservative means buying a Mustang rather than a BMW when you need money to upgrade your home, rather than using your equity ATM to pay for the work.

So what, then, am I quite liberal about? It always comes back to corporations, and the government's responsibility to keep the power that comes with great wealth in check. The type of "fiscal conservative" who believes business owners have no responsibility to anyone else but themselves and short-term profits... not their Nation, employees, customers, or even the long-term investments of their shareholders... need to be cut down to size in very short order. These people forget, at their own peril as well as ours, that if were not for the aforementioned they would neither BE in business, nor wealthy.
This post reminds me why I get after my fellow left-wingers that think being a conservative makes you some sub-human beast that must be suppressed, mocked, degraded, and humiliated at every turn. Most Americans agree on most things despite what we label ourselves
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#152 at 09-13-2007 08:51 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Commercially I like mocha. With an expresso on the side.

The best I have made in my gelato machine was a swirl of rich Mexican chocolate ice cream with just a hint of chili and a lighter raspberry sorbet with lime folded together and then put in the freezer to reset. Served with a sec California sparkling wine.

As to cereal, I liked oat Cheerios with self administered cream, sugar and blueberries.







Post#153 at 09-13-2007 09:22 AM by Earl and Mooch [at Delaware - we pave paradise and put up parking lots joined Sep 2002 #posts 2,106]
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Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
Whatever happened to "Boo Berry"? That was my favorite.
See http://www.i-mockery.com/booberry/ .
Also see http://www.lavasurfer.com/cereal-generalmills.html and be surprised how many cereals (not just from General Mills) that have come and gone over the years.
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didnīt replace it with nothing but lost faith."

Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY







Post#154 at 09-13-2007 09:27 AM by beautifulcartoon73 [at Pennsylvania, USA joined Aug 2004 #posts 270]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
This post reminds me why I get after my fellow left-wingers that think being a conservative makes you some sub-human beast that must be suppressed, mocked, degraded, and humiliated at every turn.
that's because the term now conjures up a religious fundamentalist conservative, (who are, ironically very "big-governmenty" about their pet issues) thanks in no small part to GWB et al.







Post#155 at 09-13-2007 09:35 AM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari View Post
Commercially I like mocha. With an expresso on the side.

The best I have made in my gelato machine was a swirl of rich Mexican chocolate ice cream with just a hint of chili and a lighter raspberry sorbet with lime folded together and then put in the freezer to reset. Served with a sec California sparkling wine.

As to cereal, I liked oat Cheerios with self administered cream, sugar and blueberries.
I picked up a taste for oatmeal (or other cereal) loaded down with chopped apples and nuts, especially walnuts, on a vacation at a Mexican resort that got a lot of Europeans. Served with milk. No sugar necessary but keep the cinnamon on the table in a third shaker.

The gelatos sound totally delicious.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#156 at 09-13-2007 10:23 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Grey Badger View Post
I picked up a taste for oatmeal (or other cereal) loaded down with chopped apples and nuts, especially walnuts, on a vacation at a Mexican resort that got a lot of Europeans. Served with milk. No sugar necessary but keep the cinnamon on the table in a third shaker.
That sounds like one of the many varieties of Muesli. You're right; it's good.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#157 at 09-13-2007 01:55 PM by Zarathustra [at Where the Northwest meets the Southwest joined Mar 2003 #posts 9,198]
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Quote Originally Posted by Earl and Mooch View Post
See http://www.i-mockery.com/booberry/ .
Also see http://www.lavasurfer.com/cereal-generalmills.html and be surprised how many cereals (not just from General Mills) that have come and gone over the years.
Awesome. Thanks!
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.







Post#158 at 09-13-2007 11:15 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
That sounds like one of the many varieties of Muesli. You're right; it's good.
Back in the early-mid 70s my Mom used to buy us a cereal called Familia, a Muesli imported from Switzerland. I believe it's still made... I seem to recall picking up a box at the now-defunct Larry's Market in Seattle, back in the mid 1990s.
Last edited by Roadbldr '59; 09-13-2007 at 11:18 PM.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#159 at 09-14-2007 08:26 AM by Skabungus [at West Michigan joined Jun 2007 #posts 1,027]
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In the winter, we used to alternate between, Cocoa Wheats and Cream of Wheat. YUMMMM!!!







Post#160 at 10-05-2007 10:28 AM by New_Waver [at joined Sep 2007 #posts 458]
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To get back on topic: Yes, Gen X has become serious. Most of the real seriousness came with 9/11, but it existed before, especially in the philosophers among us and among those who witnessed the lynching of Clinton, as well as the dot com boom and bust filling us with doubt over the economy and our place in it, as proponents of the high tech sector. But then, how does one say that those who served in the Gulf War were not serious?
Last edited by New_Waver; 10-05-2007 at 10:41 AM.







Post#161 at 12-12-2007 03:51 AM by Craig '84 [at East Brunswick, NJ joined Aug 2001 #posts 128]
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Quote Originally Posted by Millennial_90' View Post
For years now, Gen Xers have been leading the generational shift towards the 4T. Several of these articles are dated as early as 2004/2005. Even midlife comedies such as Knocked Up seem to profess the importance of family values.

If any generation has been disapointing in progressing towards their 4T roles, it has easily been the Boomers.
I said shortly after 9/11 that Xers were the most unpatriotic of the generations and therefore very 3T. Susan flamed me for writing that the Xers were not patriotic. I didn't get a very good reception but one person did spring to my defense.

It is the Boomers who have made the best transition from 3T to 4T. After 9/11, they were the most 4T of us all as they waved flags. They were quick to get bejind their fascist president. The Boomers (especially the late Boomers) were the most willing out of all the generations to give up civil liberties for homeland security and other types of "security". Any many late Boomers with not-yet-teenage children were even protecting them in a way like S&H describe the 4T Nomads. Silents, Xers and Yers cared too much about freedom to blindly respect the nation and president. But those darn Boomers were just too drunk (like Bush behind the wheel in 1977) on this "united we stand" garbage. The GI's have always been patriotic too but they didn't show it off the way Boomers did. Boomers stood on a rooftop and said "LOOK AT ME--I'M BEING PATRIOTIC!!!" -Craig
Oh, and another thing, Craig. You are a very conformist individual, and don't even realize it. -Robert Reed







Post#162 at 12-21-2007 06:30 AM by JustPassingThrough [at joined Dec 2006 #posts 5,196]
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It's unfortunate there are so many (unrepresentative of the average population) extreme leftists on this board. It really ruins the possibility of intelligent discussion. In my estimation, the radical left was and is the dominant strain of the baby boom generation. The conservative "half" (although I think it's less than half) may have put up a fight, aided by remaining WWIIs and Xs, but they have essentially played a complementary, contrarian role to the dominant leftist radicalism of the boomers. That means that support of radical left-leaning politics is something that will almost certainly be counteracted by the generations that follow. I've observed that to be the case. The radical left certainly has followers in younger generations, and often they are even more extreme than their predecessors, but they are fewer in number. There are not a lot of younger people on the extreme right, and so the leftists take this as a sign that they are on the verge of triumph. On the contrary, I think once the boomers exit (I think they've already peaked, but will hang on for a while due to their demographic dominance), the only harsh-sounding radical jerks on the political stage are going to be on the left, and they're going to be smacked down with a vengence once generation X takes over. That doesn't mean that things are going to swing to the extreme right. The choice is going to be between a moderate, steady conservatism and an insane and increasingly unattractive liberalism.

As for the question of the title, Xers have definitely already gotten serious. I can use the example of my older brother and his wife, who are raising their new child in a way very consistent with the predictions made by the authors of The Fourth Turning.







Post#163 at 12-22-2007 06:41 PM by SaintStephen74 [at Eugene, OR joined Dec 2007 #posts 125]
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First Post (pop!)

When will Gen X get serious?

I'd have to say that I feel Xers are more 4T than others, mostly out of necessity. As I see it, being pissed off CAN BE an Xer indication of 4T. But it needs to be principaled in its concern. More on that in a moment.

Those of us who have learned to deal with the boomers are now in a position to lead by teaching others to do so. Principaled actions are the key. In particular are principaled creative transgressions of current outdated cultural norms. I hope that is clear enough. Past examples: The Boston tea party & Gandhi's salt march. These two examples have to do with responses to taxation without representation. Surely many of us can (or soon will be able to) relate.

Xers are perhaps the most eager to make 4T happen because of the financial pressures hitting us at midlife (prime earning years) and the urge to protect our children. The changes that we have in mind might not look like grand sweeping moves initially, but they will pave the way for allowing principals to be reasserted. Yea, some of us know how to draw the boomers into the 4T, but it ain't pretty & who could blame them for kicking and screaming the whole way.

The boomers are great at dismantling things, but like everyone else, they also see the necessity for principals over personal comfort. But no one likes to lose personal comforts. Unfortunately, their personal comfort seems to be in direct conflict with the re-emerging principals inherent in the regeneration. Finances aren't the most important thing, but culturally, we are acting as if this is the case. This is where many Xers know (or are learning in mature adulthood) how to call the boomers to principaled values in a time when those values have been abandoned. An unprincipaled income under the guise of "because that's how the system works" is becoming too cumbersome & everyone knows it (even boomers can't deny it much longer).

This is where the Xers need to grow the capicity to allow boomers to have their temper tantrums & get over their loss regarding what they thought their retirement was going to look like. Deep down inside, they want to do what is right for future generations. But we've got to dig in order to find it! It's been covered by the rules/roles of the dying sacelum. This is exactly what the boomers have been trying to do for the last 30-40 years! They just don't want to lose what they have in order to provide sustainability for OTHER generations.

So Xers, don't be afraid to piss off the boomers, but give them the chance to vent & don't let them off the hook either! They'll squirm & whine -let them! Then ask them about their principals & expect them to live out those principals with action. Help them to see that we are doing what we HAVE TO do & that we don't like it either. If it feels unfair that you (as an Xer) have to be THEIR parent/therapist, it is. Haven't the boomers always told us that life isn't fair? They were right! This is the time of sacrifices -principally sacrifices of the strong sense of "I" that is plaguing the culture and dragged the 3T on for so long.

When you stop acting, thinking and discussing the 3T as if it is still here, the 4T will be with you. Hang on to your hats & forget about the "I" that has a hat (or anything else) to loose & you'll be in the 4T!







Post#164 at 12-28-2007 04:46 PM by stab1969 [at Albuquerque, NM joined May 2007 #posts 532]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
Kiddo, a generation who isn't swayed, scared or panics very easily is probably a good thing to have in place.
Most definately! somebody has to take that role!







Post#165 at 01-10-2008 09:35 PM by Maplecroft [at joined Jan 2008 #posts 5]
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I got serious the day my mom died. She was the only person who believed in me. Granted she had doubts she would see it before she died but she sensed I had what it took to survive and you know what? After going through the worst time of my life, I'm still here. Now I know I can go through rough times







Post#166 at 01-14-2008 02:10 PM by stilltim [at Chicago, IL joined Aug 2007 #posts 483]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
It's unfortunate there are so many (unrepresentative of the average population) extreme leftists on this board. It really ruins the possibility of intelligent discussion. In my estimation, the radical left was and is the dominant strain of the baby boom generation. The conservative "half" (although I think it's less than half) may have put up a fight, aided by remaining WWIIs and Xs, but they have essentially played a complementary, contrarian role to the dominant leftist radicalism of the boomers. That means that support of radical left-leaning politics is something that will almost certainly be counteracted by the generations that follow. I've observed that to be the case. The radical left certainly has followers in younger generations, and often they are even more extreme than their predecessors, but they are fewer in number. There are not a lot of younger people on the extreme right, and so the leftists take this as a sign that they are on the verge of triumph. On the contrary, I think once the boomers exit (I think they've already peaked, but will hang on for a while due to their demographic dominance), the only harsh-sounding radical jerks on the political stage are going to be on the left, and they're going to be smacked down with a vengence once generation X takes over. That doesn't mean that things are going to swing to the extreme right. The choice is going to be between a moderate, steady conservatism and an insane and increasingly unattractive liberalism.

As for the question of the title, Xers have definitely already gotten serious. I can use the example of my older brother and his wife, who are raising their new child in a way very consistent with the predictions made by the authors of The Fourth Turning.
Sadly, I think you're wasting your time pointing this out to the denizens of this board. There's a lot of nice and very thoughtful folks here, but a few will try to inject some leftist hate speech no matter what the subject - and I fear nothing you say will change that.

The tactic that seems to work best is to just to ignore the hateful posts. That usually deprives those posters of any ability to steer the thread.







Post#167 at 01-14-2008 02:24 PM by stilltim [at Chicago, IL joined Aug 2007 #posts 483]
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Quote Originally Posted by SaintStephen74 View Post
I'd have to say that I feel Xers are more 4T than others, mostly out of necessity.
I definitely think a lot of Xers grew up with a kind of doom and gloom feeling about the future. Maybe we've been living as if we're in a crisis all our lives?

Quote Originally Posted by SaintStephen74 View Post
Xers are perhaps the most eager to make 4T happen because of the financial pressures hitting us at midlife (prime earning years) and the urge to protect our children. The changes that we have in mind might not look like grand sweeping moves initially, but they will pave the way for allowing principals to be reasserted. Yea, some of us know how to draw the boomers into the 4T, but it ain't pretty & who could blame them for kicking and screaming the whole way.
I'm not sure I'd call us eager for the 4th T to begin. Perhaps some of us ARE eager to be rid of the boomer bickering we've been hearing all our lives, but I suspect it's really the 1st T that follows that we're really looking forward to. If we live long enough, it will be nice to finally see an era where the future looks bright.







Post#168 at 01-15-2008 10:58 PM by bobc [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 29]
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The analogy of the US post WW2 era. The Fourth Turning had a fairly left-wing consensus, including adding to the role of the Federal Government in the economy in a way not considered before. The First Turning (1946-1963) was more Conservative, especially in anti-communism being a consensus philosophy, although the role of government didn't shrink. The Second Turning was a revival of liberal thought and belief. Even Nixon, considered a Conservative at the time, was far to the left of most Democrats of the 1990's and 2000's.
Bob C.







Post#169 at 01-23-2008 01:00 PM by Bria67Xer [at Harrisburg, PA joined May 2007 #posts 339]
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Stilltim -
Can you imagine a life, an existence, in society without Boomer-bickering, fingerpointing, crusading, and what not? Can you imagine the sheer quietness?

I can't, to honest. It'll be close to euphoria, I think.

Bria







Post#170 at 01-24-2008 01:37 PM by stilltim [at Chicago, IL joined Aug 2007 #posts 483]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bria67Xer View Post
Stilltim -
Can you imagine a life, an existence, in society without Boomer-bickering, fingerpointing, crusading, and what not? Can you imagine the sheer quietness?

I can't, to honest. It'll be close to euphoria, I think.

Bria
Sadly, I do have a hard time imagining it. It will be a far cry from what we've seen all our lives. If we do see it, it won't be until near the arrival of the 1st T. What really worries me is that a lot of Millies seem to be blindly parroting Boomer rhetoric. We could be hearing echoes of it until the day we die <shiver>.







Post#171 at 01-24-2008 04:31 PM by Mr. Reed [at Intersection of History joined Jun 2001 #posts 4,376]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bria67Xer View Post
Stilltim -
Can you imagine a life, an existence, in society without Boomer-bickering, fingerpointing, crusading, and what not? Can you imagine the sheer quietness?

I can't, to honest. It'll be close to euphoria, I think.

Bria
That will be an interesting experience. I think it may seem euphoric at first, but then people would started to become too bored midway into the next 1T.
"The urge to dream, and the will to enable it is fundamental to being human and have coincided with what it is to be American." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
intp '82er







Post#172 at 01-24-2008 04:47 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bria67Xer View Post
Stilltim -
Can you imagine a life, an existence, in society without Boomer-bickering, fingerpointing, crusading, and what not? Can you imagine the sheer quietness?

I can't, to honest. It'll be close to euphoria, I think.

Bria
You will come to cherish the last ones as the last genuine adults to believe in anything. But somehow I'd like to be around in my late '80s or early '90s as the next 1T turns into the next 2T, and then be able to guide the next Idealist generation... stay away from drugs, don't look upon criminals as 'revolutionaries', and reject violence.







Post#173 at 01-24-2008 06:35 PM by stilltim [at Chicago, IL joined Aug 2007 #posts 483]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
You will come to cherish the last ones as the last genuine adults to believe in anything. But somehow I'd like to be around in my late '80s or early '90s as the next 1T turns into the next 2T, and then be able to guide the next Idealist generation... stay away from drugs, don't look upon criminals as 'revolutionaries', and reject violence.
The last genuine adults to believe in anything? Yeah, right. Self-righteous statements like that are exactly the reason we won't miss you.







Post#174 at 01-24-2008 06:38 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Reed View Post
That will be an interesting experience. I think it may seem euphoric at first, but then people would started to become too bored midway into the next 1T.
I anticipate that by the end of the 4T, people will be ready for a long spell of peace and quiet. Not just from Idealist bickering, but from the turmoil of a 4T.

I suspect that once the Crisis of 2020 fully gels, the surviving Adaptives will sense-if not articulate-that one 4T is enough for a lifetime.







Post#175 at 01-25-2008 07:45 PM by Neisha '67 [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 2,227]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
You will come to cherish the last ones as the last genuine adults to believe in anything. But somehow I'd like to be around in my late '80s or early '90s as the next 1T turns into the next 2T, and then be able to guide the next Idealist generation... stay away from drugs, don't look upon criminals as 'revolutionaries', and reject violence.
I'm having an image of the fish in the Cat in the Hat. Didn't someone do a generational analysis of that book with the fish as an old Lost, the Cat as a Silent, the mom who goes out for the day as a GI, and the kids as young Boomers? No-one listens to the fish.
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