Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

I am to a large degree both a social and fiscal conservative... and needless to say I don't want to return to "pre-civil-rights-era thinking".

While I laud today's progressive outlook of people being free to choose friends and significant others of different shades and religions, I do not like the so-called "multiculturalist" mentality that many social liberals have... of group membership trumping individuality. Such causes people to focus on differences over similarities, which undermines the very "peace, love and happiness" they claim to stand for.

In sexual matters... well, I do it, and so do lots of others. I'd rather not have my nose rubbed in what should be a private domain, though. Nowadays, it seems that if you don't advertise your sexuality in some way, you are considered weak. That attitude I'd like to see Go Away.

Is "fiscal conservatism" a misnomer? Perhaps. I think of it as not spending what you don't have, lest you rue the day when a bill you cannot pay comes due.

On a societal level, spending money on social programs intended to provide a temporary safety net is a good thing... by preventing people from becoming destitute, you enable them to pay the money back in the form of taxes when they're on their feet again. Throwing good money after bad on the other hand, as in the old welfare system where people were encouraged not to work, was a lose-lose proposition for everyone involved.

On a personal level, being fiscally conservative means buying a Mustang rather than a BMW when you need money to upgrade your home, rather than using your equity ATM to pay for the work.

So what, then, am I quite liberal about? It always comes back to corporations, and the government's responsibility to keep the power that comes with great wealth in check. The type of "fiscal conservative" who believes business owners have no responsibility to anyone else but themselves and short-term profits... not their Nation, employees, customers, or even the long-term investments of their shareholders... need to be cut down to size in very short order. These people forget, at their own peril as well as ours, that if were not for the aforementioned they would neither BE in business, nor wealthy.

This post reminds me why I get after my fellow left-wingers that think being a conservative makes you some sub-human beast that must be suppressed, mocked, degraded, and humiliated at every turn. Most Americans agree on most things despite what we label ourselves

Commercially I like mocha. With an expresso on the side.

The best I have made in my gelato machine was a swirl of rich Mexican chocolate ice cream with just a hint of chili and a lighter raspberry sorbet with lime folded together and then put in the freezer to reset. Served with a sec California sparkling wine.

As to cereal, I liked oat Cheerios with self administered cream, sugar and blueberries.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Whatever happened to "Boo Berry"? That was my favorite.

See http://www.i-mockery.com/booberry/ .
Also see http://www.lavasurfer.com/cereal-generalmills.html and be surprised how many cereals (not just from General Mills) that have come and gone over the years.

Originally Posted by Odin

This post reminds me why I get after my fellow left-wingers that think being a conservative makes you some sub-human beast that must be suppressed, mocked, degraded, and humiliated at every turn.

that's because the term now conjures up a religious fundamentalist conservative, (who are, ironically very "big-governmenty" about their pet issues) thanks in no small part to GWB et al.

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Commercially I like mocha. With an expresso on the side.

The best I have made in my gelato machine was a swirl of rich Mexican chocolate ice cream with just a hint of chili and a lighter raspberry sorbet with lime folded together and then put in the freezer to reset. Served with a sec California sparkling wine.

As to cereal, I liked oat Cheerios with self administered cream, sugar and blueberries.

I picked up a taste for oatmeal (or other cereal) loaded down with chopped apples and nuts, especially walnuts, on a vacation at a Mexican resort that got a lot of Europeans. Served with milk. No sugar necessary but keep the cinnamon on the table in a third shaker.

The gelatos sound totally delicious.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

I picked up a taste for oatmeal (or other cereal) loaded down with chopped apples and nuts, especially walnuts, on a vacation at a Mexican resort that got a lot of Europeans. Served with milk. No sugar necessary but keep the cinnamon on the table in a third shaker.

That sounds like one of the many varieties of Muesli. You're right; it's good.

Originally Posted by Earl and Mooch

See http://www.i-mockery.com/booberry/ .
Also see http://www.lavasurfer.com/cereal-generalmills.html and be surprised how many cereals (not just from General Mills) that have come and gone over the years.

Awesome. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

That sounds like one of the many varieties of Muesli. You're right; it's good.

Back in the early-mid 70s my Mom used to buy us a cereal called Familia, a Muesli imported from Switzerland. I believe it's still made... I seem to recall picking up a box at the now-defunct Larry's Market in Seattle, back in the mid 1990s.

In the winter, we used to alternate between, Cocoa Wheats and Cream of Wheat. YUMMMM!!!

To get back on topic: Yes, Gen X has become serious. Most of the real seriousness came with 9/11, but it existed before, especially in the philosophers among us and among those who witnessed the lynching of Clinton, as well as the dot com boom and bust filling us with doubt over the economy and our place in it, as proponents of the high tech sector. But then, how does one say that those who served in the Gulf War were not serious?

Originally Posted by Millennial_90'

For years now, Gen Xers have been leading the generational shift towards the 4T. Several of these articles are dated as early as 2004/2005. Even midlife comedies such as Knocked Up seem to profess the importance of family values.

If any generation has been disapointing in progressing towards their 4T roles, it has easily been the Boomers.

I said shortly after 9/11 that Xers were the most unpatriotic of the generations and therefore very 3T. Susan flamed me for writing that the Xers were not patriotic. I didn't get a very good reception but one person did spring to my defense.

It is the Boomers who have made the best transition from 3T to 4T. After 9/11, they were the most 4T of us all as they waved flags. They were quick to get bejind their fascist president. The Boomers (especially the late Boomers) were the most willing out of all the generations to give up civil liberties for homeland security and other types of "security". Any many late Boomers with not-yet-teenage children were even protecting them in a way like S&H describe the 4T Nomads. Silents, Xers and Yers cared too much about freedom to blindly respect the nation and president. But those darn Boomers were just too drunk (like Bush behind the wheel in 1977) on this "united we stand" garbage. The GI's have always been patriotic too but they didn't show it off the way Boomers did. Boomers stood on a rooftop and said "LOOK AT ME--I'M BEING PATRIOTIC!!!" -Craig

It's unfortunate there are so many (unrepresentative of the average population) extreme leftists on this board. It really ruins the possibility of intelligent discussion. In my estimation, the radical left was and is the dominant strain of the baby boom generation. The conservative "half" (although I think it's less than half) may have put up a fight, aided by remaining WWIIs and Xs, but they have essentially played a complementary, contrarian role to the dominant leftist radicalism of the boomers. That means that support of radical left-leaning politics is something that will almost certainly be counteracted by the generations that follow. I've observed that to be the case. The radical left certainly has followers in younger generations, and often they are even more extreme than their predecessors, but they are fewer in number. There are not a lot of younger people on the extreme right, and so the leftists take this as a sign that they are on the verge of triumph. On the contrary, I think once the boomers exit (I think they've already peaked, but will hang on for a while due to their demographic dominance), the only harsh-sounding radical jerks on the political stage are going to be on the left, and they're going to be smacked down with a vengence once generation X takes over. That doesn't mean that things are going to swing to the extreme right. The choice is going to be between a moderate, steady conservatism and an insane and increasingly unattractive liberalism.

As for the question of the title, Xers have definitely already gotten serious. I can use the example of my older brother and his wife, who are raising their new child in a way very consistent with the predictions made by the authors of The Fourth Turning.

When will Gen X get serious?

I'd have to say that I feel Xers are more 4T than others, mostly out of necessity. As I see it, being pissed off CAN BE an Xer indication of 4T. But it needs to be principaled in its concern. More on that in a moment.

Those of us who have learned to deal with the boomers are now in a position to lead by teaching others to do so. Principaled actions are the key. In particular are principaled creative transgressions of current outdated cultural norms. I hope that is clear enough. Past examples: The Boston tea party & Gandhi's salt march. These two examples have to do with responses to taxation without representation. Surely many of us can (or soon will be able to) relate.

Xers are perhaps the most eager to make 4T happen because of the financial pressures hitting us at midlife (prime earning years) and the urge to protect our children. The changes that we have in mind might not look like grand sweeping moves initially, but they will pave the way for allowing principals to be reasserted. Yea, some of us know how to draw the boomers into the 4T, but it ain't pretty & who could blame them for kicking and screaming the whole way.

The boomers are great at dismantling things, but like everyone else, they also see the necessity for principals over personal comfort. But no one likes to lose personal comforts. Unfortunately, their personal comfort seems to be in direct conflict with the re-emerging principals inherent in the regeneration. Finances aren't the most important thing, but culturally, we are acting as if this is the case. This is where many Xers know (or are learning in mature adulthood) how to call the boomers to principaled values in a time when those values have been abandoned. An unprincipaled income under the guise of "because that's how the system works" is becoming too cumbersome & everyone knows it (even boomers can't deny it much longer).

This is where the Xers need to grow the capicity to allow boomers to have their temper tantrums & get over their loss regarding what they thought their retirement was going to look like. Deep down inside, they want to do what is right for future generations. But we've got to dig in order to find it! It's been covered by the rules/roles of the dying sacelum. This is exactly what the boomers have been trying to do for the last 30-40 years! They just don't want to lose what they have in order to provide sustainability for OTHER generations.

So Xers, don't be afraid to piss off the boomers, but give them the chance to vent & don't let them off the hook either! They'll squirm & whine -let them! Then ask them about their principals & expect them to live out those principals with action. Help them to see that we are doing what we HAVE TO do & that we don't like it either. If it feels unfair that you (as an Xer) have to be THEIR parent/therapist, it is. Haven't the boomers always told us that life isn't fair? They were right! This is the time of sacrifices -principally sacrifices of the strong sense of "I" that is plaguing the culture and dragged the 3T on for so long.

When you stop acting, thinking and discussing the 3T as if it is still here, the 4T will be with you. Hang on to your hats & forget about the "I" that has a hat (or anything else) to loose & you'll be in the 4T!

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

Kiddo, a generation who isn't swayed, scared or panics very easily is probably a good thing to have in place.

Most definately! somebody has to take that role!

I got serious the day my mom died. She was the only person who believed in me. Granted she had doubts she would see it before she died but she sensed I had what it took to survive and you know what? After going through the worst time of my life, I'm still here. Now I know I can go through rough times

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

It's unfortunate there are so many (unrepresentative of the average population) extreme leftists on this board. It really ruins the possibility of intelligent discussion. In my estimation, the radical left was and is the dominant strain of the baby boom generation. The conservative "half" (although I think it's less than half) may have put up a fight, aided by remaining WWIIs and Xs, but they have essentially played a complementary, contrarian role to the dominant leftist radicalism of the boomers. That means that support of radical left-leaning politics is something that will almost certainly be counteracted by the generations that follow. I've observed that to be the case. The radical left certainly has followers in younger generations, and often they are even more extreme than their predecessors, but they are fewer in number. There are not a lot of younger people on the extreme right, and so the leftists take this as a sign that they are on the verge of triumph. On the contrary, I think once the boomers exit (I think they've already peaked, but will hang on for a while due to their demographic dominance), the only harsh-sounding radical jerks on the political stage are going to be on the left, and they're going to be smacked down with a vengence once generation X takes over. That doesn't mean that things are going to swing to the extreme right. The choice is going to be between a moderate, steady conservatism and an insane and increasingly unattractive liberalism.

As for the question of the title, Xers have definitely already gotten serious. I can use the example of my older brother and his wife, who are raising their new child in a way very consistent with the predictions made by the authors of The Fourth Turning.

Sadly, I think you're wasting your time pointing this out to the denizens of this board. There's a lot of nice and very thoughtful folks here, but a few will try to inject some leftist hate speech no matter what the subject - and I fear nothing you say will change that.

The tactic that seems to work best is to just to ignore the hateful posts. That usually deprives those posters of any ability to steer the thread.

Originally Posted by SaintStephen74

I'd have to say that I feel Xers are more 4T than others, mostly out of necessity.

I definitely think a lot of Xers grew up with a kind of doom and gloom feeling about the future. Maybe we've been living as if we're in a crisis all our lives?

Originally Posted by SaintStephen74

Xers are perhaps the most eager to make 4T happen because of the financial pressures hitting us at midlife (prime earning years) and the urge to protect our children. The changes that we have in mind might not look like grand sweeping moves initially, but they will pave the way for allowing principals to be reasserted. Yea, some of us know how to draw the boomers into the 4T, but it ain't pretty & who could blame them for kicking and screaming the whole way.

I'm not sure I'd call us eager for the 4th T to begin. Perhaps some of us ARE eager to be rid of the boomer bickering we've been hearing all our lives, but I suspect it's really the 1st T that follows that we're really looking forward to. If we live long enough, it will be nice to finally see an era where the future looks bright.

The analogy of the US post WW2 era. The Fourth Turning had a fairly left-wing consensus, including adding to the role of the Federal Government in the economy in a way not considered before. The First Turning (1946-1963) was more Conservative, especially in anti-communism being a consensus philosophy, although the role of government didn't shrink. The Second Turning was a revival of liberal thought and belief. Even Nixon, considered a Conservative at the time, was far to the left of most Democrats of the 1990's and 2000's.

Stilltim -
Can you imagine a life, an existence, in society without Boomer-bickering, fingerpointing, crusading, and what not? Can you imagine the sheer quietness?

I can't, to honest. It'll be close to euphoria, I think.

Bria

Originally Posted by Bria67Xer

Stilltim -
Can you imagine a life, an existence, in society without Boomer-bickering, fingerpointing, crusading, and what not? Can you imagine the sheer quietness?

I can't, to honest. It'll be close to euphoria, I think.

Bria

Sadly, I do have a hard time imagining it. It will be a far cry from what we've seen all our lives. If we do see it, it won't be until near the arrival of the 1st T. What really worries me is that a lot of Millies seem to be blindly parroting Boomer rhetoric. We could be hearing echoes of it until the day we die <shiver>.

Originally Posted by Bria67Xer

Stilltim -
Can you imagine a life, an existence, in society without Boomer-bickering, fingerpointing, crusading, and what not? Can you imagine the sheer quietness?

I can't, to honest. It'll be close to euphoria, I think.

Bria

That will be an interesting experience. I think it may seem euphoric at first, but then people would started to become too bored midway into the next 1T.

Originally Posted by Bria67Xer

Stilltim -
Can you imagine a life, an existence, in society without Boomer-bickering, fingerpointing, crusading, and what not? Can you imagine the sheer quietness?

I can't, to honest. It'll be close to euphoria, I think.

Bria

You will come to cherish the last ones as the last genuine adults to believe in anything. But somehow I'd like to be around in my late '80s or early '90s as the next 1T turns into the next 2T, and then be able to guide the next Idealist generation... stay away from drugs, don't look upon criminals as 'revolutionaries', and reject violence.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

You will come to cherish the last ones as the last genuine adults to believe in anything. But somehow I'd like to be around in my late '80s or early '90s as the next 1T turns into the next 2T, and then be able to guide the next Idealist generation... stay away from drugs, don't look upon criminals as 'revolutionaries', and reject violence.

The last genuine adults to believe in anything? Yeah, right. Self-righteous statements like that are exactly the reason we won't miss you.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

That will be an interesting experience. I think it may seem euphoric at first, but then people would started to become too bored midway into the next 1T.

I anticipate that by the end of the 4T, people will be ready for a long spell of peace and quiet. Not just from Idealist bickering, but from the turmoil of a 4T.

I suspect that once the Crisis of 2020 fully gels, the surviving Adaptives will sense-if not articulate-that one 4T is enough for a lifetime.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

You will come to cherish the last ones as the last genuine adults to believe in anything. But somehow I'd like to be around in my late '80s or early '90s as the next 1T turns into the next 2T, and then be able to guide the next Idealist generation... stay away from drugs, don't look upon criminals as 'revolutionaries', and reject violence.

I'm having an image of the fish in the Cat in the Hat. Didn't someone do a generational analysis of that book with the fish as an old Lost, the Cat as a Silent, the mom who goes out for the day as a GI, and the kids as young Boomers? No-one listens to the fish.