Yeah, people don't really listen too much to the old anyway, much less during a 1T into 2Ts. And since nomadic generations have the misfortune of being old when the societal focus is on the young, I don't think old Gen Xers will even paid attention to by younger cohorts. When society is in a high time, little credence is given towards those with wisdom and warning. Everything is all gay and happy.

If I'm able to live long enough to see the first part of the 2nd turning, I'll probably be like "oh, shit. here we go again." and would find myself feeling very sorry for the young children growing up in this mess as I will know what they will endure.

As for the middle age Artists rearing these kids during the 2T, I will remember back to how they were raised by my fellow Gen Xers and, well, I will now know exactly why they're "letting loose" behavior was occurring. Their over protective rearing raised them to do just that - blow off your children and let loose.

Ugh, what an awful time to be a child - 2Ts.

Bria

Originally Posted by TimWalker

I anticipate that by the end of the 4T, people will be ready for a long spell of peace and quiet. Not just from Idealist bickering, but from the turmoil of a 4T.

I suspect that once the Crisis of 2020 fully gels, the surviving Adaptives will sense-if not articulate-that one 4T is enough for a lifetime.

You're probably right. Im sure I'll be over it by then if I survive.

"When are we going to get serious?" I'm doing a Chester Cheetah goggle-eye right now. When were we not serious?

I was born in 1970. Was there thing one joyful and fun about being a child in the 70s? Remember stagflation, turning the heat down, eating hamburger because everything else was too dear, those years when some crisis in the peanut industry wiped out your PB&Js? If your life was like mine, which was a pretty typical mid-size city, middle-class childhood, your parents were embroiled in a gender war, wacked out on prescription uppers and/or downers, and too busy with their divorce to pay more than a minute's attention to you -- unless of course they were crying about their problems which you, in your 9 year old wisdom, were supposed to know how to solve? Serious does not begin to describe my childhood. It was a decade of lonely desperation.

The 80s come around -- three words: Global Thermonuclear War. I didn't know a single kid my age who wasn't obsessed with it. We all had our personal plans for what we would do that day. Inevitable. Depressing. Pointless. Death. Serious as all get out.

Then in the 90s was the first Iraq war. Scared the shit out of everyone I knew. We figured there'd be a draft. We boggled at the lies. A war fought for nothing but oil? WTF!? But then, there were bills to be paid, shit jobs to slog through for 5 or 6 years after college while the economy was in the dumper, toast for dinner, splurge on bagels on weekends. So we slogged. 'Cause that's what serious people do when there's rent to be paid. Then I guess enough Boomers retired that we finally started to get halfway decent jobs. At which we worked our asses off. Only to realize there is no there there. Soulless, unappreciated, lonely, quickly laid off.

Cue the 2000s and here's where we start to change. It's not that we're more or less serious, it's that we've fallen off the media-cultural map. We started to have kids and families and we started looking around at what was on offer culturally, medically, socially, politically, and good god what a load of tripe. That's where most of the Xer's I know are right now -- looking inward -- cooking and growing real food from scratch, having babies unassisted, lurching into Libertarianism, women staying home with their kids, nursing toddlers, buying little farms, raising chickens in the backyard, knitting, putting up crocks of sauerkraut, building up the stockpile of knowledge, goods, skills, wherewithal that we can see is going to be needed AFTER the shit hits the fan. I don't know a single Xer who thinks we can reverse the Boomer juggernaut. It's way way way too late for that -- not worth wasting time and effort on. Not to mention that we fear the surveillance state and prefer to stay as far off your radar as possible. You won't see us again until after TSHTF. Then we'll be leading the ragtag armies and building your sorry ass a lean-to. Don't even try to thank us, we're liable to pop you one.

Originally Posted by la_torquemada

"When are we going to get serious?" I'm doing a Chester Cheetah goggle-eye right now. When were we not serious?

I was born in 1970. Was there thing one joyful and fun about being a child in the 70s? Remember stagflation, turning the heat down, eating hamburger because everything else was too dear, those years when some crisis in the peanut industry wiped out your PB&Js? If your life was like mine, which was a pretty typical mid-size city, middle-class childhood, your parents were embroiled in a gender war, wacked out on prescription uppers and/or downers, and too busy with their divorce to pay more than a minute's attention to you -- unless of course they were crying about their problems which you, in your 9 year old wisdom, were supposed to know how to solve? Serious does not begin to describe my childhood. It was a decade of lonely desperation.

The 80s come around -- three words: Global Thermonuclear War. I didn't know a single kid my age who wasn't obsessed with it. We all had our personal plans for what we would do that day. Inevitable. Depressing. Pointless. Death. Serious as all get out.

Then in the 90s was the first Iraq war. Scared the shit out of everyone I knew. We figured there'd be a draft. We boggled at the lies. A war fought for nothing but oil? WTF!? But then, there were bills to be paid, shit jobs to slog through for 5 or 6 years after college while the economy was in the dumper, toast for dinner, splurge on bagels on weekends. So we slogged. 'Cause that's what serious people do when there's rent to be paid. Then I guess enough Boomers retired that we finally started to get halfway decent jobs. At which we worked our asses off. Only to realize there is no there there. Soulless, unappreciated, lonely, quickly laid off.

Cue the 2000s and here's where we start to change. It's not that we're more or less serious, it's that we've fallen off the media-cultural map. We started to have kids and families and we started looking around at what was on offer culturally, medically, socially, politically, and good god what a load of tripe. That's where most of the Xer's I know are right now -- looking inward -- cooking and growing real food from scratch, having babies unassisted, lurching into Libertarianism, women staying home with their kids, nursing toddlers, buying little farms, raising chickens in the backyard, knitting, putting up crocks of sauerkraut, building up the stockpile of knowledge, goods, skills, wherewithal that we can see is going to be needed AFTER the shit hits the fan. I don't know a single Xer who thinks we can reverse the Boomer juggernaut. It's way way way too late for that -- not worth wasting time and effort on. Not to mention that we fear the surveillance state and prefer to stay as far off your radar as possible. You won't see us again until after TSHTF. Then we'll be leading the ragtag armies and building your sorry ass a lean-to. Don't even try to thank us, we're liable to pop you one.

No offense but your reply is several months too late.

Sorry, just got here -- thread didn't look dead.

It's not dead. The reply before yours was only a week ago.

Originally Posted by la_torquemada

Sorry, just got here -- thread didn't look dead.

I think it's great when sleepy threads get revived! and I liked what you had to say! welcome

Originally Posted by Silifi

It's not dead. The reply before yours was only a week ago.

1990 already took back his comment about GenXers.

Originally Posted by la_torquemada

"When are we going to get serious?" I'm doing a Chester Cheetah goggle-eye right now. When were we not serious?

I was born in 1970. Was there thing one joyful and fun about being a child in the 70s? Remember stagflation, turning the heat down, eating hamburger because everything else was too dear, those years when some crisis in the peanut industry wiped out your PB&Js? If your life was like mine, which was a pretty typical mid-size city, middle-class childhood, your parents were embroiled in a gender war, wacked out on prescription uppers and/or downers, and too busy with their divorce to pay more than a minute's attention to you -- unless of course they were crying about their problems which you, in your 9 year old wisdom, were supposed to know how to solve? Serious does not begin to describe my childhood. It was a decade of lonely desperation.

The 80s come around -- three words: Global Thermonuclear War. I didn't know a single kid my age who wasn't obsessed with it. We all had our personal plans for what we would do that day. Inevitable. Depressing. Pointless. Death. Serious as all get out.

Then in the 90s was the first Iraq war. Scared the shit out of everyone I knew. We figured there'd be a draft. We boggled at the lies. A war fought for nothing but oil? WTF!? But then, there were bills to be paid, shit jobs to slog through for 5 or 6 years after college while the economy was in the dumper, toast for dinner, splurge on bagels on weekends. So we slogged. 'Cause that's what serious people do when there's rent to be paid. Then I guess enough Boomers retired that we finally started to get halfway decent jobs. At which we worked our asses off. Only to realize there is no there there. Soulless, unappreciated, lonely, quickly laid off.

Cue the 2000s and here's where we start to change. It's not that we're more or less serious, it's that we've fallen off the media-cultural map. We started to have kids and families and we started looking around at what was on offer culturally, medically, socially, politically, and good god what a load of tripe. That's where most of the Xer's I know are right now -- looking inward -- cooking and growing real food from scratch, having babies unassisted, lurching into Libertarianism, women staying home with their kids, nursing toddlers, buying little farms, raising chickens in the backyard, knitting, putting up crocks of sauerkraut, building up the stockpile of knowledge, goods, skills, wherewithal that we can see is going to be needed AFTER the shit hits the fan. I don't know a single Xer who thinks we can reverse the Boomer juggernaut. It's way way way too late for that -- not worth wasting time and effort on. Not to mention that we fear the surveillance state and prefer to stay as far off your radar as possible. You won't see us again until after TSHTF. Then we'll be leading the ragtag armies and building your sorry ass a lean-to. Don't even try to thank us, we're liable to pop you one.

One nit: IVF births account for about 1 percent of births in the US now. That's about 40,000 births a year. And most of those IVF moms are now Xers, since the youngest Boomers are 47 (there may be some Millies having IVF).

One prominent example of a Gen-Xer using IVF is Jennifer Lopez.

Originally Posted by Neisha '67

I'm having an image of the fish in the Cat in the Hat. Didn't someone do a generational analysis of that book with the fish as an old Lost, the Cat as a Silent, the mom who goes out for the day as a GI, and the kids as young Boomers? No-one listens to the fish.

You know, that just about works, doesn't it? The Fish... a mean, crusty old Nomad curmudgeon... who saw the glass as perpetually half-empty and certain doom lurking around every corner. The good-intentioned GI Mom, totally disconnected from what her kids were all about. The Boomer kids exploring their freedom and independence While Mom Was Away, egged on ... naturally... by the Silent Cat.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

One nit: IVF births account for about 1 percent of births in the US now. That's about 40,000 births a year. And most of those IVF moms are now Xers, since the youngest Boomers are 47 (there may be some Millies having IVF).

One prominent example of a Gen-Xer using IVF is Jennifer Lopez.

Wonk, what your talking about with IVF is ASSISTED CONCEPTION. What La_T is talking about is giving birth. Look at stats for birth circumstances in America. It's scary. Natural birth/birth with a midwife, is common the world over, and is supported by the medical profession generally. Now, come to America! It's actively repressed by the medical profession and insurance industry here.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

Wonk, what your talking about with IVF is ASSISTED CONCEPTION. What La_T is talking about is giving birth. Look at stats for birth circumstances in America. It's scary. Natural birth/birth with a midwife, is common the world over, and is supported by the medical profession generally. Now, come to America! It's actively repressed by the medical profession and insurance industry here.

Fair enough.

I'm all in favor of mid-wife births, as long as the medical profession is there to step in if something goes wrong. Maternal and fetal deaths historically and even today in less-developed nations is pretty horrific.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Fair enough.

I'm all in favor of mid-wife births, as long as the medical profession is there to step in if something goes wrong. Maternal and fetal deaths historically and even today in less-developed nations is pretty horrific.

Agreed. However, the "medical profession there to step in....." is really a misconception. If a woman goes through regular oppointments with an OB, gets the ultrasounds, and has good health though the pregnancy, there is very little that can go wrong. If there is some likelyhood of a "go wrong" you know about it well in advance and thus can plan to go to a hospital for the birth. Most complications are known well in advance. The things that can go instantly wrong (i.e. as the woman is going through labor) fall into two categories. (A) There is nothing ANYONE can do about it even if you're in a trauma ward, or (B) This issue requires a hospital, let's get you in the car and you can have the baby there. Really, the presence of the hospital staff up the hall really isnt a great benefit since there is either NOTHING they can do about it, or, there is NO RUSH since the baby isnt going to be delivered until the problem is solved.

The idea that all of a sudden something can go wrong with a birth in the matter of an insant is largely a product of TV, and a medical profession/insurance profession that wants to control the process.

Your note on fetal and maternal deaths historically has more to do with the lack of understanding of maternal health during pregnancy, "innovative" methods of advancing labor and no prenatal testing than it does with the choice of a physician over a midwife.

The figures for "developing countries" are again, heavily influenced by nutrition, prenatal care, etc.

For good comparison, use France, Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Spain, Israel and other comparably developed nations where births are normally attended by a midwife rather than a doc. Mention to anyone in these countries that "in America they use doctors" and you'll get eyerolling and smiles because it's..........well...........SILLY!"

The point is. America has been given a truly scary misrepresentation of child birth because it serves the interests of docs, insurance companies and others who consider the process "risk management" better handled through controlling nature instead of facilitating nature. The emphasis is on the provider, not the baby and not the mother.

http://www.womensenews.org/article.c...ontext/archive

Hello...I've been lurking here for a bit and thought I'd jump in for a moment here.

If it makes you feel "special" to give birth to your child at home in front of a fire or whatever like our ancestors did...more power to you -- and if you're a woman who doesn't want to have pain medications while giving birth, so be it...we all have that choice.

But to say that "there is very little that can go wrong" while a woman is in labor is not just false...sorry, it's complete CRAP! There are TONS of things that can go wrong that when detected, can be easily corrected. I'm a labor and delivery nurse myself, and I promise you there are probably hundreds of babies whose lives have been saved thanks to early detection and correction of fetal distress. MOST of which the mothers are never even aware that anything has happened.

I suppose that if a mom were monitored properly at home that would decrease the risk, but I'm pretty sure that most of these women wouldn't allow to be monitored since that's why they want to have the baby at home in the first place (they want the MOST natural birth).

Also, one reason it's so common for mothers to have their babies at home in other countries has more to do with the fact that it's more cost effective for their countries socialized medicine, than b/c they're somehow better at "facilitating nature." In fact, in these countries it would certainly make sense that their countries would encourage them to believe that having a doctor at the bedside was "silly."

While some risks of childbirth have been sensationalized on tv and movies, it doesn't take away the fact that there ARE very real risks that can and absolutely do occur. They aren't something the medical establishment has dreamed up and I can also assure you that the emphasis IS on the mothers and babies in the hospitals at least...insurance companies have a different idea in that they want to get the patients out as fast as possible.

Sorry, this just strikes such a personal chord with me. The doctors and nurses I work with genuinely do our absolute best to provide the best care possible and it's beyond frustrating when we have patients who are convinced they know more about their condition than we do simply b/c they've read a few articles or books on the subject. I think it's great to be informed but that's one thing...claiming you're an expert or more of an expert than the "medical establishment" is quite another. Thankfully, most patients fall happily somewhere in the middle.

Right on Skabungus!

Since this is kind of OT, I'm not going to harp on it Wonkette, but the #1 factor in maternal/birth safety is whether girls and women have had good childhood nutrition to build adequate bone structure and good nutrition during pregnancy to build blood volume, the placenta, and a strong baby. This may or may not be true of American women, so it's up to each individual woman to assess her birth risk. However, the VAST majority of American birth complications are now iatrogenic (doctor-caused) -- poor nutritional advice, inductions, birthing while laying/sitting on the tailbone (closes the pelvic outlet by 30%) , manual removal of the placenta (causes hemorrhage), and early cutting of the umbilical cord (causes fetal hypoxia). It's become a "we had to burn the city to save it" kind of issue -- if you birth in a hospital it is almost 100% guaranteed that you or your baby will suffer some kind of injury -- very likely physical and certainly psychological. If you birth at home the statistics show that there is a very small increased risk of fetal death (though this does not take into account the many babies who are "saved" by heroic measures in hospitals only to die a few weeks or months later, or be severely handicapped), but a vanishingly small risk of any other complication of any kind. If you are an American woman within 20 minutes of a hospital, the risk of disaster is very small -- the kinds of things that can kill you at home during birth are the same things that kill women in hospitals during birth -- they cannot always save you.

Also, Skabungus, you're (unfortunately) a little mistaken about the situation in Europe. In the Netherlands and Britain, birth is often with midwives (and 30% at home in the Netherlands), but Italy actually has an even worse c-section rate (32.9%) than the US (31.1%) and midwives are not allowed to do prenatal care. France's c-section rate is also very high.

Like I said, I don't want to hijack the thread, but I've spent about 6 years immersed in this topic so it's close to my heart.

Originally Posted by angelka72

If it makes you feel "special" to give birth to your child at home in front of a fire or whatever like our ancestors did...

It's this sneering attitude that gives the medical profession such a bad name.

It's not about "feeling special" -- it's about giving your child the gentlest, most physiologically normal birth possible because the circumstances of birth have a huge impact on the baby lifelong. I am willing to bet that you have NEVER seen a physiologically normal birth -- no medications, no bright lights, noisy intrusions, nebby strangers lurking about, mother fed, hydrated, and upright, umbilical cord left attached for at least 20 minutes, baby allowed to crawl to breast on its own and left skin to skin with mother, no bathing, weighing, ointments, etc. The day you see that, and sincerely I hope you have the opportunity to someday, you will be shocked at the difference between that infant (on that day and going forward) and those born the Western medical way.

Originally Posted by angelka72

If it makes you feel "special" to give birth to your child at home in front of a fire or whatever like our ancestors did...more power to you -- and if you're a woman who doesn't want to have pain medications while giving birth, so be it...we all have that choice.

How condesending! Possiby you could state your condesending dismissals more diplomatically in the future. I don't suppose you ever stopped to consider that, with this second child at least, had we opted to forego the midwife option and drive into the hospital, I'd have delivered the baby somewhere in down town Grand Rapids, a good way from the hospital parking lot. Naaaaaaaah.....

But to say that "there is very little that can go wrong" while a woman is in labor is not just false...sorry, it's complete CRAP! There are TONS of things that can go wrong that when detected, can be easily corrected. I'm a labor and delivery nurse myself, and I promise you there are probably hundreds of babies whose lives have been saved thanks to early detection and correction of fetal distress. MOST of which the mothers are never even aware that anything has happened.

So.......what you're saying is that you cant monitor at home? Or, are you saying that a certified nurse midwife in a hospital setting or a home setting, cant monitor as well as an OB and a delivery nurse? Or are you saying something else all together?

I suppose that if a mom were monitored properly at home that would decrease the risk, but I'm pretty sure that most of these women wouldn't allow to be monitored since that's why they want to have the baby at home in the first place (they want the MOST natural birth).

Ahhhhhh......so even though it could be possible to monitor at home, or, that in a hospital setting, or birthing center setting with a CERTIFIED NURSE MIDWIFE, you're "pretty sure tht most of these women wouldn't allow to be monitored............" Ever attended a home birth? Ever worked in a birthing center.....ever met an RN with midwifery training? I guess you don't need to since you already know what they prefer.

Also, one reason it's so common for mothers to have their babies at home in other countries has more to do with the fact that it's more cost effective for their countries socialized medicine, than b/c they're somehow better at "facilitating nature." In fact, in these countries it would certainly make sense that their countries would encourage them to believe that having a doctor at the bedside was "silly."

Ahhhhh.....................so, THOSE DAMN SOCIALISTS are responsible for this!!! I should have known! I guess there's just no truth to the theory that OB's and hospitals might be somewhat threatened by the success of birthing centers, or that insurance companies might be twisting the system to their own benefit here in the free market of American medical services. Yes, it's those damn socialists.

While some risks of childbirth have been sensationalized on tv and movies, it doesn't take away the fact that there ARE very real risks that can and absolutely do occur.

Nobody says there arent. What was happens though is that the risks, however small, are portrayed as the rule. That's misrepresentation.

They aren't something the medical establishment has dreamed up and I can also assure you that the emphasis IS on the mothers and babies in the hospitals at least...insurance companies have a different idea in that they want to get the patients out as fast as possible.

There are a lot of folks in the medical profession that would disagree with your statements here. Most are women. Many are registered nurses, some are RNNM's some are OB's. Every deviation from the hospital prescribed routine requires that you sign a waiver. My wife had to sign a waiver to walk the halls, take the monitors off to take a dump, etc. Now what are those waivers for? They're to protect the clinicians, hospital nad insurance companies from the mom and her lawyer. This is what it is......and it doesnt speak to concern for anything but one's own professional ass.

Sorry, this just strikes such a personal chord with me.

So, that fact that is strikes a personal chord with YOU entitles you to run down the women who choose not you use your services, or the husbands that stand up for their wive's decisions. Clearly their choices are AT LEAST as personal as yours, especially when you consider that they are having the children. Your condesening remarks indicate you believe how you feel about your job outweighs what moms and dads feel about having their babies.[/quote]

But The doctors and nurses I work with genuinely do our absolute best to provide the best care possible and it's beyond frustrating when we have patients who are convinced they know more about their condition than we do simply b/c they've read a few articles or books on the subject.

Your snarky condesention is complete. Clearly you know what's best for the patient, and the patient doesnt know crap. Brilliant. You illustrate my point more clearly than I can. People like you are exactly why my wife and I left the birthing center and had the baby at home with the benefit of a nurse midwife that actually worked with my wife, as a member of a team, to bring about a safe, happy, healthy, birth.

I think it's great to be informed but that's one thing...claiming you're an expert or more of an expert than the "medical establishment" is quite another. Thankfully, most patients fall happily somewhere in the middle.

I never claimed to be an expert. I simply pointed out what anyone can read in the medical literature. Possibly you should pick some up on your next coffee break.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

How condesending! Possiby you could state your condesending dismissals more diplomatically in the future. I don't suppose you ever stopped to consider that, with this second child at least, had we opted to forego the midwife option and drive into the hospital, I'd have delivered the baby somewhere in down town Grand Rapids, a good way from the hospital parking lot. Naaaaaaaah.....

So.......what you're saying is that you cant monitor at home? Or, are you saying that a certified nurse midwife in a hospital setting or a home setting, cant monitor as well as an OB and a delivery nurse? Or are you saying something else all together?

Ahhhhhh......so even though it could be possible to monitor at home, or, that in a hospital setting, or birthing center setting with a CERTIFIED NURSE MIDWIFE, you're "pretty sure tht most of these women wouldn't allow to be monitored............" Ever attended a home birth? Ever worked in a birthing center.....ever met an RN with midwifery training? I guess you don't need to since you already know what they prefer.



Ahhhhh.....................so, THOSE DAMN SOCIALISTS are responsible for this!!! I should have known! I guess there's just no truth to the theory that OB's and hospitals might be somewhat threatened by the success of birthing centers, or that insurance companies might be twisting the system to their own benefit here in the free market of American medical services. Yes, it's those damn socialists.

Nobody says there arent. What was happens though is that the risks, however small, are portrayed as the rule. That's misrepresentation.

There are a lot of folks in the medical profession that would disagree with your statements here. Most are women. Many are registered nurses, some are RNNM's some are OB's. Every deviation from the hospital prescribed routine requires that you sign a waiver. My wife had to sign a waiver to walk the halls, take the monitors off to take a dump, etc. Now what are those waivers for? They're to protect the clinicians, hospital nad insurance companies from the mom and her lawyer. This is what it is......and it doesnt speak to concern for anything but one's own professional ass.

So, that fact that is strikes a personal chord with YOU entitles you to run down the women who choose not you use your services, or the husbands that stand up for their wive's decisions. Clearly their choices are AT LEAST as personal as yours, especially when you consider that they are having the children. Your condesening remarks indicate you believe how you feel about your job outweighs what moms and dads feel about having their babies.

Your snarky condesention is complete. Clearly you know what's best for the patient, and the patient doesnt know crap. Brilliant. You illustrate my point more clearly than I can. People like you are exactly why my wife and I left the birthing center and had the baby at home with the benefit of a nurse midwife that actually worked with my wife, as a member of a team, to bring about a safe, happy, healthy, birth.

I never claimed to be an expert. I simply pointed out what anyone can read in the medical literature. Possibly you should pick some up on your next coffee break.

Whoa! Birthing wars! Let's take this to the "Childbirth and Generations" thread.

Gen X'rs ARE serious (1965 cohort); they are even middle management now:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb...?news-breaking

By Josh Poltilove of The Tampa Tribune

Published: February 4, 2008

TAMPA — A Sarasota bank branch manager built up a false trust with an 86-year-old Bradenton man and stole thousands of dollars from him, Manatee County deputies say.

Milton Lowry Hagelberger

Milton Lowry Hagelberger, 43, is being held on $1.15 million bail in Sarasota County Jail today after being arrested in connection to the fraud case.

Hagelberger was charged with exploitation of the elderly and scheming to defraud and 27 counts of fraudulent use of a credit card.

He used an ATM card to steal money from the Bradenton man, deputies said. The thefts took place from March 2007 to January.

Deputies said Hagelberger made about 130 unauthorized ATM withdrawals totaling $82,000, a sheriff's office release says. The 86-year-old man, a client at RBC Centura Bank in Bradenton where Hagelberger was employed until October, didn't have an ATM card when the withdrawals were made.

Hagelberger, who had helped the man balance his checkbook, had the man's bank statements mailed to a vacant lot across from the bank so the man wouldn't get them, the release states.

On Jan. 25, the elderly man went to the bank and learned he couldn't cash a check because he had insufficient funds, the release states. The man learned a second account had been opened in his name and that someone was using an ATM card to withdraw funds.

Hagelberger, a former SunTrust employee, was arrested today where he now works as a vice president: BB&T Bank in Sarasota, the sheriff's office said.

Anyone with information may call the sheriff's office at (941) 747-3011, extensions 2552 or 2510, or Crime Stoppers at (866) 634-TIPS.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Your snarky condesention is complete. Clearly you know what's best for the patient, and the patient doesnt know crap. Brilliant. You illustrate my point more clearly than I can. People like you are exactly why my wife and I left the birthing center and had the baby at home with the benefit of a nurse midwife that actually worked with my wife, as a member of a team, to bring about a safe, happy, healthy, birth.

I never claimed to be an expert. I simply pointed out what anyone can read in the medical literature. Possibly you should pick some up on your next coffee break.

Whoa! Birthing wars! Let's take this to the "Childbirth and Generations" thread.[/quote]

Jen.... you never told me that you once had a WIFE!?!?!?!??!!!!

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Whoa! Birthing wars! Let's take this to the "Childbirth and Generations" thread.

Jen.... you never told me that you once had a WIFE!?!?!?!??!!!![/quote]

Somehow a quote got missed. Skabangus is the one with the wife.

i liked what la_torquemada said as i've said something similiar to it in other posts. we are serious. we've been exposed to all the serious, adult-oriented shit in the world at an earlier age than any youngster nowadays would ever be permitted to see. and, i might add, that when we were exposed to this, it was at a time when we all realized we were completely powerless to do anything about it. we were children and children don't have much power - especially children growing up in a 2T, lemme tell ya! So, we've have to watch these older generations continue to screw things up and making the mess even worse, it is now incredibly overwhelming to us. so, we've withdrawn from view and out of your radar. almost as if to say - "fine. you guys made the mess. you guys clean it up. we were not consulted when the mess was being made, so don't bother us now." unfortunately, we know that we have to live in the muck, too.

and remember, Gen Xers, those people who are defining whether or not we are serious, are older generations....need I say more?

bria

Originally Posted by Bria67Xer

i liked what la_torquemada said as i've said something similiar to it in other posts. we are serious. we've been exposed to all the serious, adult-oriented shit in the world at an earlier age than any youngster nowadays would ever be permitted to see. and, i might add, that when we were exposed to this, it was at a time when we all realized we were completely powerless to do anything about it. we were children and children don't have much power - especially children growing up in a 2T, lemme tell ya! So, we've have to watch these older generations continue to screw things up and making the mess even worse, it is now incredibly overwhelming to us. so, we've withdrawn from view and out of your radar. almost as if to say - "fine. you guys made the mess. you guys clean it up. we were not consulted when the mess was being made, so don't bother us now." unfortunately, we know that we have to live in the muck, too.

and remember, Gen Xers, those people who are defining whether or not we are serious, are older generations....need I say more?

bria

Nice, if cynical, summary. Or, more succinctly - "don't ask me to clean up your shit, I've got my hands full trying to dig myself out of the shit you already dumped on me"

Originally Posted by stilltim

Nice, if cynical, summary. Or, more succinctly - "don't ask me to clean up your shit, I've got my hands full trying to dig myself out of the shit you already dumped on me"

Except that Boomers would prefer to die still lying in $#!% than stop eating lotuses...

Originally Posted by catfishncod

Except that Boomers would prefer to die still lying in $#!% than stop eating lotuses...

arent lotuses poisonous?!? I know daffodills are... learned that one the hard way.