Originally Posted by Bria67Xer

and remember, Gen Xers, those people who are defining whether or not we are serious, are older generations....need I say more?

bria

So true. Take a good look at what boomers consider 'serious'. Laughing is the only thing that we can do to keep from crying because we are noticing what ends their means will result in. Let me quote my Boomer father on his thoughts about driving a gas guzzler "Global warming is for you guys generation to worry about" He doesn't want to be bothered by it in his well earned retirement.

This kind of blindness is best met indirectly, ask any Xer who has learned to deal with boomers. It doesn't look serious to them, but they aren't looking further than the next 5-10 years (with the exception of personal finance).

Originally Posted by stab1969

arent lotuses poisonous?!? I know daffodills are... learned that one the hard way.

What part of daffodils ? I grazed on daffodil flowers, tulip flowers and "normal" food in dad's garden when I was real young ~4. It was part of the "hands off" Silent parenting style. Mom and dad would just let me stay outside all day and do whatever. I'm fairly sure the bulbs are toxic, but I was probably too lazy to dig for the bulbs to eat. I don't recall getting ill from whatever stuff I foraged on.

Originally Posted by SaintStephen74

So true. Take a good look at what boomers consider 'serious'. Laughing is the only thing that we can do to keep from crying because we are noticing what ends their means will result in. Let me quote my Boomer father on his thoughts about driving a gas guzzler "Global warming is for you guys generation to worry about" He doesn't want to be bothered by it in his well earned retirement.

This kind of blindness is best met indirectly, ask any Xer who has learned to deal with boomers. It doesn't look serious to them, but they aren't looking further than the next 5-10 years (with the exception of personal finance).

Grr! Speaking as a Boomer myself, that kind of idiocy drives me batty and makes me blush for my generation.

Is your father a grandpa, BTW?

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

What part of daffodils ? I grazed on daffodil flowers, tulip flowers and "normal" food in dad's garden when I was real young ~4. It was part of the "hands off" Silent parenting style. Mom and dad would just let me stay outside all day and do whatever. I'm fairly sure the bulbs are toxic, but I was probably too lazy to dig for the bulbs to eat. I don't recall getting ill from whatever stuff I foraged on.

Im not really sure actually... This was about 10 years ago in Berkeley, CA. I was on Telegraph Ave with a friend, and there was some "neo-hippie" type prancing up and down the avenue, giving daffodils to random people. I happened to be one of them, and promptly ate the whole thing(just seemed the thing to do at the time i guess) and about 45 minutes later I projectile vomited for about 2 minutes then was fine. I didnt know they were poisonous till this girl that I knew informed me of that info as she was a scolding me after finding out that I ate it. Needless to say, I dont eat flowers anymore...

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Grr! Speaking as a Boomer myself, that kind of idiocy drives me batty and makes me blush for my generation.

Is your father a grandpa, BTW?

As a Jonser, it makes me wonder where he was during the Awakening.

Even I remember watching Cayahoga river fire on TeeVee. I also can see how this sort of thing ties into Earth Day. I mean really, I was in grade school and
recall stuff like this.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Grr! Speaking as a Boomer myself, that kind of idiocy drives me batty and makes me blush for my generation.

Is your father a grandpa, BTW?

Oops! It was the Father-in-law who said it, not my father. And yes! -he is a grandpa! In fact, at that point, I think our son was less than a year old & in the next room.

Thanks for the blush Wonkette. If there is anyway for a Boomer to win credit with an Xer (this one anyhow), it is with a sense of accountability. It is much appreciated. Overall, I am very critical of the Boomers, but there are some diamonds in the rough. They are the ones who are reading the needs of future generations like its as vital to them as it is to everyone else downstream.

Let me quote my Boomer father on his thoughts about driving a gas guzzler "Global warming is for you guys generation to worry about" He doesn't want to be bothered by it in his well earned retirement.

This kind of blindness is best met indirectly, ask any Xer who has learned to deal with boomers. It doesn't look serious to them, but they aren't looking further than the next 5-10 years (with the exception of personal finance).

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Grr! Speaking as a Boomer myself, that kind of idiocy drives me batty and makes me blush for my generation.

Is your father a grandpa, BTW?

Yep! I've heard these remarks from the older members of my family and my wife's family, However, they are Silents from '32, '34, and '36. All seem to feel that they had it hard, had to work their asses off and built a great country, just to see "us kids" wrecking it.

~ It does not a bit of good to point out the differences in economics between now and then.

~ It doesnt do any good to point out that "they" didn't build a great society but rather others did, and they benefited.

~ Pointing out that there are problematic outfalls that will impact their grandchildren falls on deaf ears.

It's always suprised me. From S&H's material, you'd think Silents would be just the kind to want to help make life a little better/easier for their grand children. It's been my experience that many Silent men I've met (family, workplace, socially) are rather selfish and mean spirited on such issues.

~ Guys who missed/skipped or dodged the Korean War and WWII and got outta Nam now frothing at the mouth to stay, stay, stay in Iraq and move on to Iran as well....scolding their children for objecting to a young grandson's thoughts of joint the marines.

~ Guys who worked 30 years in the same job, who have 2 homes and a huge pension and lifelong medical, telling college kids and young adults they should stop sobbing about bills and just work harder. There is often more than a little maliciousness in the delivery of such scoldings as if there is some need to rub it in.

It makes me wonder if S&H missed the mark, or I misread something, or if it's a gender thing. I've heard this from Silent women as well, but it comes across more soft spoken.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

Let me quote my Boomer father on his thoughts about driving a gas guzzler "Global warming is for you guys generation to worry about" He doesn't want to be bothered by it in his well earned retirement.

This kind of blindness is best met indirectly, ask any Xer who has learned to deal with boomers. It doesn't look serious to them, but they aren't looking further than the next 5-10 years (with the exception of personal finance).


Yep! I've heard these remarks from the older members of my family and my wife's family, However, they are Silents from '32, '34, and '36. All seem to feel that they had it hard, had to work their asses off and built a great country, just to see "us kids" wrecking it.

~ It does not a bit of good to point out the differences in economics between now and then.

~ It doesnt do any good to point out that "they" didn't build a great society but rather others did, and they benefited.

~ Pointing out that there are problematic outfalls that will impact their grandchildren falls on deaf ears.

It's always suprised me. From S&H's material, you'd think Silents would be just the kind to want to help make life a little better/easier for their grand children. It's been my experience that many Silent men I've met (family, workplace, socially) are rather selfish and mean spirited on such issues.

~ Guys who missed/skipped or dodged the Korean War and WWII and got outta Nam now frothing at the mouth to stay, stay, stay in Iraq and move on to Iran as well....scolding their children for objecting to a young grandson's thoughts of joint the marines.

~ Guys who worked 30 years in the same job, who have 2 homes and a huge pension and lifelong medical, telling college kids and young adults they should stop sobbing about bills and just work harder. There is often more than a little maliciousness in the delivery of such scoldings as if there is some need to rub it in.

It makes me wonder if S&H missed the mark, or I misread something, or if it's a gender thing. I've heard this from Silent women as well, but it comes across more soft spoken.

Not necessarily. The Silent are, as a generation, dropping like flies. It's more likely that as they approach the end of their lives, they are bitter for "missing out" on either the Heroic glory of World War 2, or the free-spirited culture of the Boomers and Gen X, or both. Having had to toe the line as children during the Crisis, and as young adults in a grey-flannel-suited High, their lives were as boring as they were sheltered and relatively safe. And there's no do-over for them.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Not necessarily. The Silent are, as a generation, dropping like flies. It's more likely that as they approach the end of their lives, they are bitter for "missing out" on either the Heroic glory of World War 2, or the free-spirited culture of the Boomers and Gen X, or both. Having had to toe the line as children during the Crisis, and as young adults in a grey-flannel-suited High, their lives were as boring as they were sheltered and relatively safe. And there's no do-over for them.

My experience of Silents is notably different. I think it's because of my later vantage point. I have almost no memory of the Lost, so the G.I.s were the sterner elders of my memory... my GI Granddad was a Great Man, but stingy and set in his ways. In contrast, his much-younger Silent wife, her siblings, and their spouses were the elders I thought would never grow old as a kid. It's like the title of a poem I used to teach. "Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." None of my extended family died for almost the entirety of the Unraveling. This decade they've been dropping like flies.

I miss their twinkle. I miss their humor. I miss their continual quest to stay young, longing for the childhood they never had in the last 4T. GI Granddad wasn't trying to hear about the latest music, or style, or clothing, and you'd never convince him to see an opposing point of view. Silent Grandma? Sure.

The High was not bland for my Silent elders, but the first taste of civil rights, and the last memory of the majority of black children being born in two parent families. Their generation was by and large the last black gen to be unafflicted by the numerous pathologies of black Boomers, Xers, and early Millies. In old age, they're doing a considerable amount of hand-wringing over the bottom dropping out of the culture (see: Bill Cosby). Black Millies have not yet proven that they will reject the pathos inherent in today's hip-hop ethos, and reverse 30 to 40 years of negative trends for good. But my Homelander nephew? "Auntie, turn that down!" is his opinion of uber-Unraveling hip-hop. He and my niece are the nicest, most efficient "little helpers" imaginable. I have been taking them everywhere since they were babies. They are subtle and keen observers of the world around them. And they are never out of our sight.

As an artist (small a) myself, it's often been the wistful thoughtfulness of white/mainstream Silents that have inspired me most from Jim Henson to Fred Rogers in childhood, all the way to my escaping into an Audrey Hepburn flick these days to alleviate stress. No matter how cynical, many Xers might not admit it, but they feel the same way. Multiple webpages wax nostalgic about our children's programming directed by middle-aged Silent, which I think was superior to the Howdy Doody/Davy Crockett stuff my parents watched in the 50s and 60s (GIs? Do nuance? Huh?). And countless hordes of outwardly "brittle" Xer women escape into Jane Austen or 50s flicks in an attempt to mentally slip into a past when life had rules and roles and scripts.

Their generation's good points don't get much lauded by S&H, but from my vantage point, the passing of the Silent will leave a huge hole in the world that current gens just don't fill adequately.

Eh. I'm starting to understand why (and how) Nomads raise Artists.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

It's always suprised me. From S&H's material, you'd think Silents would be just the kind to want to help make life a little better/easier for their grand children. It's been my experience that many Silent men I've met (family, workplace, socially) are rather selfish and mean spirited on such issues.

My mom is still helping us out after all these years. She has a fund set up to help the grandkids get started in college, and she drops off care packages now and then.

I love that woman.

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

My experience of Silents is notably different. I think it's because of my later vantage point. I have almost no memory of the Lost, so the G.I.s were the sterner elders of my memory... my GI Granddad was a Great Man, but stingy and set in his ways. In contrast, his much-younger Silent wife, her siblings, and their spouses were the elders I thought would never grow old as a kid. It's like the title of a poem I used to teach. "Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." None of my extended family died for almost the entirety of the Unraveling. This decade they've been dropping like flies.

I miss their twinkle. I miss their humor. I miss their continual quest to stay young, longing for the childhood they never had in the last 4T. GI Granddad wasn't trying to hear about the latest music, or style, or clothing, and you'd never convince him to see an opposing point of view. Silent Grandma? Sure.

The High was not bland for my Silent elders, but the first taste of civil rights, and the last memory of the majority of black children being born in two parent families. Their generation was by and large the last black gen to be unafflicted by the numerous pathologies of black Boomers, Xers, and early Millies. In old age, they're doing a considerable amount of hand-wringing over the bottom dropping out of the culture (see: Bill Cosby). Black Millies have not yet proven that they will reject the pathos inherent in today's hip-hop ethos, and reverse 30 to 40 years of negative trends for good. But my Homelander nephew? "Auntie, turn that down!" is his opinion of uber-Unraveling hip-hop. He and my niece are the nicest, most efficient "little helpers" imaginable. I have been taking them everywhere since they were babies. They are subtle and keen observers of the world around them. And they are never out of our sight.

As an artist (small a) myself, it's often been the wistful thoughtfulness of white/mainstream Silents that have inspired me most from Jim Henson to Fred Rogers in childhood, all the way to my escaping into an Audrey Hepburn flick these days to alleviate stress. No matter how cynical, many Xers might not admit it, but they feel the same way. Multiple webpages wax nostalgic about our children's programming directed by middle-aged Silent, which I think was superior to the Howdy Doody/Davy Crockett stuff my parents watched in the 50s and 60s (GIs? Do nuance? Huh?). And countless hordes of outwardly "brittle" Xer women escape into Jane Austen or 50s flicks in an attempt to mentally slip into a past when life had rules and roles and scripts.

Their generation's good points don't get much lauded by S&H, but from my vantage point, the passing of the Silent will leave a huge hole in the world that current gens just don't fill adequately.

Eh. I'm starting to understand why (and how) Nomads raise Artists.

I was watching the pc revival of Mr. Stephen Sondheim's Company on PBS. It shows the Silents caught between the solidarity of the GI vision and the blooming individuality of the Crown of Creation as well as the personal wish for connection and independence in us all. It's a period piece that may be of interest to T4Ters (and a great cast in the main).

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Not necessarily. The Silent are, as a generation, dropping like flies. It's more likely that as they approach the end of their lives, they are bitter for "missing out" on either the Heroic glory of World War 2, or the free-spirited culture of the Boomers and Gen X, or both. Having had to toe the line as children during the Crisis, and as young adults in a grey-flannel-suited High, their lives were as boring as they were sheltered and relatively safe. And there's no do-over for them.

I feel compelled to defend the Silent I am closest to -- my mother, born 1930. She is putting a lot of her energy into making the world better for future generations by being a main organizer and activist for the Oxford County, Maine Democratic party. She has also helped my older sister put her older son through college (my older sister's other kids got free rides and my younger sister doesn't need help putting hers through college).

She is a bit down because her aches and pains are increasing as she ages. She's had to severely curtail her downhill skiing.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I feel compelled to defend the Silent I am closest to -- my mother, born 1930. She is putting a lot of her energy into making the world better for future generations by being a main organizer and activist for the Oxford County, Maine Democratic party. She has also helped my older sister put her older son through college (my older sister's other kids got free rides and my younger sister doesn't need help putting hers through college).

She is a bit down because her aches and pains are increasing as she ages. She's had to severely curtail her downhill skiing.

Your mom reminds me of many of the Silents I know from Hospice (volunteers, admins and clients).

Really, I'm not slamming the whole generation, but rather pointing out that the bitter, cynical and often mean spirited stuff I hear from Silents is not what I came to expect. It's not what I remember from my childhood (see Xerteacher's reflections on the past) and it's certainly not universal.........but it's prevalent enough (go sit and listen to a bunch of Silents watching the news at a golf course clubhouse if you dont believe me) to make me wonder. You'd think this generation, of any presently alive, would have the most to be happy about. You wouldnt expect to get the attitudes I mentioned in my prior post from folks like that.

Yet, you watch the news and there they are screaming for war, more war to keep America safe! You run into them at store griping for their senior discount in front of a clerk making slave wages with no benefits, and you have to wonder.

Most of the "nice" scilents I know are liberals. Former Peace Corps, old Scout Masters, hospice volunteers and naturalists I work with.

Most of the bitter nasty ones are middle income conservatives of a moderate-centerist leaning. It seems the nasty bitter ones are out living the nice liberals.

It hurts to hear these tales of my contemporaries being closed-minded, self-righteous, and petty. OTH - I just came from a breakfast at the senior center I know had to be subsidized, and I'm not needy. (it's offered to all). Did I eat it? yes. Does feeling guilty about it help? No. It does make me feel better to realize I'm doing what I can within the limits of my own laziness to help the kids.

And I've long suggested 'reforming' Social Security by lifting the wage cap - abolishing it totally - and means-testing the benefits. But like most everything else I say, the words get out there and fall into a soundproof black hole.

As for those fools who don't know today's kids are living an a totally difference economy, I have a few blogs they should read. Or maybe they should try going to school with the kids, except that from the description they'd be too busy sniffing at superficials like which part of the body it's fashionable to expose and what sort of language (back to Chaucer and also to the Restoration!) is acceptable today.

Idiots.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

It seems the nasty bitter ones are out living the nice liberals.

I hope that's not the case with my Mom. I'd like her to attend my daughter's college graduation, which is 9 years from now (assuming she goes straight through in four years).

Originally Posted by Skabungus

Most of the bitter nasty ones are middle income conservatives of a moderate-centerist leaning. It seems the nasty bitter ones are out living the nice liberals.

That explains a lot. The silver lining of being a visible person of color is that it acts like a screening device. So by and large, the Silents I know from all corners of society have been aggregately the nicest age bracket I've known.

I was thinking today with the unrest in Kosovo -- what if lifespans and careers weren't at their present levels and we didn't have two Silent newsanchors on 9/11? Or enough Silent in Congress seven years ago to stop a scorched-earth policy?

What a narrow escape.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

Most of the bitter nasty ones are middle income conservatives of a moderate-centerist leaning. It seems the nasty bitter ones are out living the nice liberals.

That makes a lot of sense. The Silent conservatives would have been the ones who toed the line the closest, and now either wish they hadn't... or that they hadn't had to. This I can relate to... I'm no stranger to bitterness over the roles society forced people into during the past 40-odd years.

I am, however, at a loss to explain why the bitter would outlive happier people.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

That makes a lot of sense. The Silent conservatives would have been the ones who toed the line the closest, and now either wish they hadn't... or that they hadn't had to. This I can relate to... I'm no stranger to bitterness over the roles society forced people into during the past 40-odd years.

I am, however, at a loss to explain why the bitter would outlive happier people.

The script writers, man. The angry Silents are plot devices. They don't make waves if they're happy.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

That makes a lot of sense. The Silent conservatives would have been the ones who toed the line the closest, and now either wish they hadn't... or that they hadn't had to. This I can relate to... I'm no stranger to bitterness over the roles society forced people into during the past 40-odd years.

I am, however, at a loss to explain why the bitter would outlive happier people.

I really don't think they have. I think they're a lot easier to see, for the same reason that a skunk is easier to notice than a kitty-cat.

And - don't judge an entire generation by the old farts who gather in the donut shop and pontificate on the state of the world in loud and judgmental voices. That clique has been with us since I was a tiny little girl and will probably be around for the Big Crunch. Or, see the Two Critics on the Muppet Show. They're timeless.

But, I have to agree with Skabungus as I've even dealt with this attitude from Silents before - with my own parents, as an example.

I think because they were so impacted by their 4T, that anything we younger generations are experiencing pales to them in comparison. And us saying how hard we have it is a "joke" to them.

But, they don't have much to be happy about as they age. I mean, yes they do in a sense that they have been able to live their adult lives without much upheaval and accumulate wealth to retire nicely. But, they are the last living generation to witness America pull itself up by its bootstraps, overcome its odd, and become a major powerhouse in the world. They saw teamwork, and community, and patriotism unlike anything we have seen. They have watched their incomes increase, but their country deteriorate. And they are now at ages where they have no power to influence a turnaround. That has to be depressing. They know their children and grandchildren will be living in a mess and they don't know if they will ever get the chance to see a society and a country that once knew.

Bria

Originally Posted by Bria67Xer

But, they don't have much to be happy about as they age. I mean, yes they do in a sense that they have been able to live their adult lives without much upheaval and accumulate wealth to retire nicely. But, they are the last living generation to witness America pull itself up by its bootstraps, overcome its odd, and become a major powerhouse in the world. They saw teamwork, and community, and patriotism unlike anything we have seen. They have watched their incomes increase, but their country deteriorate. And they are now at ages where they have no power to influence a turnaround. That has to be depressing. They know their children and grandchildren will be living in a mess and they don't know if they will ever get the chance to see a society and a country that once knew.

Bria

Being born near the end of 1944, I consider myself on the cusp of the Boom, but with a decidely more silent-like personality. My GI parents grew up during the Depression, and my dad once told me that he was one of only two from his graduating class who acquired jobs at the time.

I thought we already were a powerhouse in the world before WWII. We sort of grew up thinking that the more-or-less benign style of living in the postwar period would last forever. Guess there were no scholars of generation theory at that time. But are we sure that the remaining Silents have no power to influence a turnaround? If their continued influence is indeed a stalemate toward deferring the solving of problems that should have been solves before now, then this is a good thing that they soon exit the political landscape so we can get on with the show. But will all bets be off if McCain, a Silent, gets elected President?

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

I thought we already were a powerhouse in the world before WWII. But are we sure that the remaining Silents have no power to influence a turnaround? If their continued influence is indeed a stalemate toward deferring the solving of problems that should have been solves before now, then this is a good thing that they soon exit the political landscape so we can get on with the show.

We were a force to be reckoned with, but we weren't considered a Super Power of the globe prior to WWII. It was during and after WWII that we showed the world our Super Power status.

I think the Silents have fewer and fewer voices. But, there may be two Silent voices of influence that shout louder into our government than any other Silent living today - David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger - neither of which I recall electing into "office".

Bria

Originally Posted by Bria67Xer

.. I think the Silents have fewer and fewer voices. But, there may be two Silent voices of influence that shout louder into our government than any other Silent living today - David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger - neither of which I recall electing into "office".

Bria

Both Rockefeller (1915) and Kissinger (1923) are GIs.

The Silent control Congress right now. I think we all suspect that is why our entree into 4T this decade has been so uncertain... and dare I say, cushioned?

For example, this week they're saying that there's a list of banks that are in danger of failing like IndyMac. TPTB are refusing to release the list. If that isn't a classic Silent move, I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Both Rockefeller (1915) and Kissinger (1923) are GIs.

Did Bria67Xer mean Jay Rockefeller, the junior senator from West Virginia, born in 1941? Of course, he doesn't strike me as a particularly powerful player on the national scene.