Originally Posted by SaintStephen74

Oops! It was the Father-in-law who said it, not my father. And yes! -he is a grandpa! In fact, at that point, I think our son was less than a year old & in the next room.

Thanks for the blush Wonkette. If there is anyway for a Boomer to win credit with an Xer (this one anyhow), it is with a sense of accountability. It is much appreciated. Overall, I am very critical of the Boomers, but there are some diamonds in the rough. They are the ones who are reading the needs of future generations like its as vital to them as it is to everyone else downstream.

Not only am I equally appalled, I take pride in reporting that my Ford Focus gets 30 mpg. Not only that, but today I used a bike three times to do errands of less than a mile in my little village's downtown and gave my car a whole day's rest. . .Unfortunately, I can't bike to work.

I really don't believe that Gen X'ers have as yet reached that fabled Generation Exhausted stage the authors talked about in their book. I believe most of them are still very active. Talk about youthful frenetic lifestyles, is that any different from the way the Boomers spent much of their youth. Have often pointed out that it was Boomers who ended up saying "been there, done that" when it came to such things as late-night partying and casual sex. Is there a syndrome of Boomers saying to X'ers "we had our fun, but will do everything we can to keep you from having yours."?

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

I really don't believe that Gen X'ers have as yet reached that fabled Generation Exhausted stage the authors talked about in their book. I believe most of them are still very active. Talk about youthful frenetic lifestyles, is that any different from the way the Boomers spent much of their youth. Have often pointed out that it was Boomers who ended up saying "been there, done that" when it came to such things as late-night partying and casual sex. Is there a syndrome of Boomers saying to X'ers "we had our fun, but will do everything we can to keep you from having yours."?

Xers are very active, but most of them certainly have settled down. The ones with kids are circling their wagons and protecting their children from anything that smacks of depravity.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Xers are very active, but most of them certainly have settled down. The ones with kids are circling their wagons and protecting their children from anything that smacks of depravity.

Absolutely.

At our recent family get-together in Sacramento, my 22 year old nephew and his girlfriend expressed interest in coming to visit my sister in Westerville, Ohio. To which Lisa responded: "You're welcome to come... however keep in mind we run a G-rated household. Not even PG-13."

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

I really don't believe that Gen X'ers have as yet reached that fabled Generation Exhausted stage the authors talked about in their book. I believe most of them are still very active. Talk about youthful frenetic lifestyles, is that any different from the way the Boomers spent much of their youth. Have often pointed out that it was Boomers who ended up saying "been there, done that" when it came to such things as late-night partying and casual sex. Is there a syndrome of Boomers saying to X'ers "we had our fun, but will do everything we can to keep you from having yours."?

It's more like Boomers wanting Xers and Millies, our younger siblings and children, to learn from our generation's mistakes without having to make the same ones all over again.

Lots of Boomers lament their over-the-top engagement in SDRR, with its disastrous consequences of drug addiction, STDs and out-of-wedlock births (not to mention hearing loss).

Though it may appear condescending and hypocritical to younger people, our hearts are in the right place.

There is an informal but growing subculture of Gen-X women from all walks of life trying to recover knowledge about the home arts. Not even just learning how to sew or knit or bake bread. I'm talking about grinding grain, spinning, and churning butter... things that our mothers and grandmothers didn't even necessarily know. Many of us whose heads are not in the sand have a sense of urgency about learning how to do things. Here in my town, there are all sorts of clubs and groups where you can learn how to do these things.

There's a definite generational divide, too. A lot of Boomers I know think we're cute but ridiculous. But those of us in our 30s, with or without children or husbands, don't think that it's f***ing funny. It's because we're actually of childbearing age, and we have this maternal sense that the sh** is about to hit the fan. Between peak oil, the infrastructure aging, and the general incompetence of our leadership, some of us are starting to realize that we may have to go Sarah Plain and Tall on folks sometime soon in order to feed our families.

People think my roommate and I are weird because we're these highly educated, single professional women with demanding careers, but the house has a small yet functional garden, we cook and bake from scratch, and make our own yogurt. (I suppose they didn't take Michael Pollan's point seriously, that anything that your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize as food probably isn't good for you.) She plans to start churning next. I plan to get my hunting license. (Annoyed that my dad, an NRA member, passed away without passing on that skill.)

If that's not serious enough for you, I'm not sure what is.

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

There is an informal but growing subculture of Gen-X women from all walks of life trying to recover knowledge about the home arts. Not even just learning how to sew or knit or bake bread. I'm talking about grinding grain, spinning, and churning butter... things that our mothers and grandmothers didn't even necessarily know. Many of us whose heads are not in the sand have a sense of urgency about learning how to do things. Here in my town, there are all sorts of clubs and groups where you can learn how to do these things.

There's a definite generational divide, too. A lot of Boomers I know think we're cute but ridiculous. But those of us in our 30s, with or without children or husbands, don't think that it's f***ing funny. It's because we're actually of childbearing age, and we have this maternal sense that the sh** is about to hit the fan. Between peak oil, the infrastructure aging, and the general incompetence of our leadership, some of us are starting to realize that we may have to go Sarah Plain and Tall on folks sometime soon in order to feed our families.

People think my roommate and I are weird because we're these highly educated, single professional women with demanding careers, but the house has a small yet functional garden, we cook and bake from scratch, and make our own yogurt. (I suppose they didn't take Michael Pollan's point seriously, that anything that your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize as food probably isn't good for you.) She plans to start churning next. I plan to get my hunting license. (Annoyed that my dad, an NRA member, passed away without passing on that skill.)

If that's not serious enough for you, I'm not sure what is.

And a garden as well!

This paleo- does applaud.

I armed my Xer niece with a RWS air pistol, a semi-automatic .22RF, a semi-automatic .40 S&W of Czech design and Italian manufacture; and, I gave her dad a muzzleloader in parts to build for her--all in her teens.

I just gave my 12 & 10 year old Millennial cousins some pistol instruction and will introduce shotgun sports next summer when they return to the North of the Mesabi. The elder expressed interest in future cervicide here on Da'Range. The younger took out all the bowling pins in order and received a lock-back knife for his efforts.

Good for you and your roomate on your skills.

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

There is an informal but growing subculture of Gen-X women from all walks of life trying to recover knowledge about the home arts. Not even just learning how to sew or knit or bake bread. I'm talking about grinding grain, spinning, and churning butter... things that our mothers and grandmothers didn't even necessarily know. Many of us whose heads are not in the sand have a sense of urgency about learning how to do things. Here in my town, there are all sorts of clubs and groups where you can learn how to do these things.

There's a definite generational divide, too. A lot of Boomers I know think we're cute but ridiculous. But those of us in our 30s, with or without children or husbands, don't think that it's f***ing funny. It's because we're actually of childbearing age, and we have this maternal sense that the sh** is about to hit the fan. Between peak oil, the infrastructure aging, and the general incompetence of our leadership, some of us are starting to realize that we may have to go Sarah Plain and Tall on folks sometime soon in order to feed our families.

People think my roommate and I are weird because we're these highly educated, single professional women with demanding careers, but the house has a small yet functional garden, we cook and bake from scratch, and make our own yogurt. (I suppose they didn't take Michael Pollan's point seriously, that anything that your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize as food probably isn't good for you.) She plans to start churning next. I plan to get my hunting license. (Annoyed that my dad, an NRA member, passed away without passing on that skill.)

If that's not serious enough for you, I'm not sure what is.

My X-er wife fits the bill. We raise chickens, turkey and goats for meat. She does a pretty good job dressing out a bird. She has a dairy goat herd as well having mastered the art of making cheeses and yogurts. We buy our wheat berries 250 lbs. at a time and she grinds it fresh when making bread. She’s coming along well as a vegetable gardener and wild food forager. Two years ago we started canning (something I grew up with but she’d never done) and she puts up tons of stuff annually. Sewing, mending, and other aspects of the domestic vocation she mastered long before she met me. Despite the rather excellent medical benefits we have, she had both our son and daughter in our living room with a midwife and I in attendance.

My wife was raised by wealthy doctors in Southern California in a household with a gardener and a maid. She never had to lift a finger. She’s moved in this direction of her own volition believing in the back of her mind that there may be a time when she’d need to do it. Fiercely liberal and feminist, she doesn't she hardly fits the mold of timid homemaker.

We sell some meat and cheese which covers all our agricultural feed costs making the birds and goats, cheese we consume essentially free. Most of our customers are upper middle class Boomers who think its “neat” to serve a free range bird now and again. They are generous with complements about or operation but they seem more mystified that we’d do all the work when we could just buy this stuff in the organic section of the supermarket. They seem genuinely amazed that we’d go to all this trouble.

Trouble? what trouble? It’s only after you start doing it do you realize that it is no trouble. When you compare grinding flour and baking bread to sitting in traffic and wandering through the supermarket, you quickly realize that the former is joyful and fun and the latter is the fate of lemmings. Mowing hay by hand is a meditation of mind and body that’s a hell of a lot cheaper than the YMCA membership that is destined to be under used.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

...
Trouble? what trouble? It’s only after you start doing it do you realize that it is no trouble. When you compare grinding flour and baking bread to sitting in traffic and wandering through the supermarket, you quickly realize that the former is joyful and fun and the latter is the fate of lemmings. Mowing hay by hand is a meditation of mind and body that’s a hell of a lot cheaper than the YMCA membership that is destined to be under used.

That's a hell of a line. I'm going to have to think of that while sitting on the NJ turnpike tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

And a garden as well!

This paleo- does applaud.

I armed my Xer niece with a RWS air pistol, a semi-automatic .22RF, a semi-automatic .40 S&W of Czech design and Italian manufacture; and, I gave her dad a muzzleloader in parts to build for her--all in her teens.

I just gave my 12 & 10 year old Millennial cousins some pistol instruction and will introduce shotgun sports next summer when they return to the North of the Mesabi. The elder expressed interest in future cervicide here on Da'Range. The younger took out all the bowling pins in order and received a lock-back knife for his efforts.

Good for you and your roomate on your skills.

Thanks, but I'll take your commendation in the future! I need to get my hunting license first. (The other night, I dreamed I had a shotgun and was hunting in the woods.)

Originally Posted by Skabungus

My X-er wife fits the bill. We raise chickens, turkey and goats for meat. She does a pretty good job dressing out a bird. She has a dairy goat herd as well having mastered the art of making cheeses and yogurts. We buy our wheat berries 250 lbs. at a time and she grinds it fresh when making bread. She’s coming along well as a vegetable gardener and wild food forager. Two years ago we started canning (something I grew up with but she’d never done) and she puts up tons of stuff annually. Sewing, mending, and other aspects of the domestic vocation she mastered long before she met me. Despite the rather excellent medical benefits we have, she had both our son and daughter in our living room with a midwife and I in attendance.

My wife was raised by wealthy doctors in Southern California in a household with a gardener and a maid. She never had to lift a finger. She’s moved in this direction of her own volition believing in the back of her mind that there may be a time when she’d need to do it. Fiercely liberal and feminist, she doesn't she hardly fits the mold of timid homemaker.

We sell some meat and cheese which covers all our agricultural feed costs making the birds and goats, cheese we consume essentially free. Most of our customers are upper middle class Boomers who think its “neat” to serve a free range bird now and again. They are generous with complements about or operation but they seem more mystified that we’d do all the work when we could just buy this stuff in the organic section of the supermarket. They seem genuinely amazed that we’d go to all this trouble.

Trouble? what trouble? It’s only after you start doing it do you realize that it is no trouble. When you compare grinding flour and baking bread to sitting in traffic and wandering through the supermarket, you quickly realize that the former is joyful and fun and the latter is the fate of lemmings. Mowing hay by hand is a meditation of mind and body that’s a hell of a lot cheaper than the YMCA membership that is destined to be under used.

I love hearing about what you're doing! And your wife sounds a LOT like some of my womenfriends here in Ann Arbor. Liberal, fully reality-based AND practical as well. The cure for "feeling sorry for yourself" is to grab a shovel and to start working. I just don't see where the self-esteem movement that I grew up with has done anything for people but make them lazy, selfish, and entitled.

People like you and your wife are the sort we'll need in the age to come. One of the science fiction authors whose work I like best is Orson Scott Card. In one of his books about the not-so-distant future, Pastwatch, much of the Northern Hemisphere has been destroyed by war. You have scientists (male and female) who are part of the Pastwatch program who use all this very sophisticated and advanced technology, then come home and live much as you describe. I think we'll look back at 20th century "fast food" in 100 years with the same eye that we now regard quack "patent medicines" of the 1900s.

On another message board, I have been arguing that some of the current pathos in society is due to mere idleness. Growing up in Detroit, and returning there to visit family, I see this all the time. My solution for the inner-city problem is to put those young men and women to WORK! By the mid-2010s, we need a new WPA. My GI grandfather worked as part of the CCC in the 1930s. It changed his life. Good, honest hard work in the forests of northern Michigan influenced his character, strengthened his body, and challenged his mind. He retained a deep affection for both nature *and* President Roosevelt during his long and prosperous life.

I love the work that organizations such as the Greening of Detroit is doing. We have a generation of inner-city kids of all races that is completely divorced from nature. There is now enough vacant land in the city that if properly treated, one could have every child in the school system learn basic gardening and animal husbandry. But of course the current black nationalist Boomer and X NON-leadership thinks of this as regressive, not progressive. (For the millionth time, thank God for the Millies! I did a lot of editorializing about the virtues of community, hard work, and preservation to my students and mentees. Now, whenever I am home, I hear "Hi, Ms. XerTeacher!" from young twentysomethings in various civic organizations and new businesses.)

I'm so fortunate to have been partially raised by my GI and Silent grandparents, and not typical black Boomers *or* Xers. It made for a very difficult time growing up, during the first iteration of Xer life when being cool and detached and hating anythingn that wasn't black was emphasized. But it will be practical Xers like us who will manage the Crisis. I see that now.

While in school, going home to help Grandma and Mom tend the garden, cook, do basic carpentry, paint, sew and the like made me a "total loser" who got teased (and whose teachers thought she was a plagiarist when I wrote a poem about flowers -- because of course, ghetto kids don't know what dianthus is!), now those same peers have found me on Facebook and look at what I can do as if I can walk on water. One sent me a message about how much she admired me. Others give a begrudging respect. Yet another cannot believe that if I want a cake, I can pull out flour, sugar, eggs and the like and MAKE one... you hear "you actually made this??" To which I, and my roommate (who is white, but who had almost the exact same childhood experiences of being a "weirdo") just shrug and say, "Whatever."

You and your wife are an inspiration, Skabungus. I hope that eventually I will be able to find a good person with similar goals, purchase land, put what we know to use, and learn even more.

Wow. I was raised by GIs, and during the War we lived very close to my Missionary (?) grandparents. Have you ever tasted homemade vanilla pudding - from scratch? Egg custard, ditto? My mother had to get up and shovel coal into a potbellied stove during the War and coked our breakfast in a double boiler on a two-burner wood-and-trash stove. We had a grape arbor, Concord grapes I think, and she put up jelly.

I learned some of her skills but not, alas, all of them, and would have to go into serious training to physically do a lot of things. But - wow. My spoiled-Silent hat is off to you and all these others.

I'm also reminded of the scene in Atlas Shrugged where Dagny, who had quit her job over the latest atrocity, retreats to her mountain cabin and works off her anger with a lot of carpentry work, path-laying, etc.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

...Mowing hay by hand is a meditation of mind and body that’s a hell of a lot cheaper than the YMCA membership that is destined to be under used.

-Gyms are usually for wussies with more money than sense. Outside of wear & tear on clothes and footwear, and extra showers, PT should be free. If you make exercise a practical part of your life (as Skabungus has), you stop noticing it. I'm not so sure about the "meditation of the mind" part tho':

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

...I'm also reminded of the scene in Atlas Shrugged where Dagny, who had quit her job over the latest atrocity, retreats to her mountain cabin and works off her anger with a lot of carpentry work, path-laying, etc.

-IIRC, it really didn't help put her in a happy place...

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

...I just don't see where the self-esteem movement that I grew up with has done anything for people but make them lazy, selfish, and entitled...

-There's nothing wrong with self-esteem, as long as it's earned (thru' accomplishments); otherwise, it's like the end of "The Wizard of Oz" where the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion get prizes that mean nothing.

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

Thanks, but I'll take your commendation in the future! I need to get my hunting license first. (The other night, I dreamed I had a shotgun and was hunting in the woods.)...

-Don't you know that Liberals are supposed to be afraid of firearms?

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

...But of course the current black nationalist Boomer and X NON-leadership thinks of this as regressive, not progressive. (For the millionth time, thank God for the Millies! I did a lot of editorializing about the virtues of community, hard work, and preservation to my students and mentees. Now, whenever I am home, I hear "Hi, Ms. XerTeacher!" from young twentysomethings in various civic organizations and new businesses.)

I'm so fortunate to have been partially raised by my GI and Silent grandparents, and not typical black Boomers *or* Xers. It made for a very difficult time growing up, during the first iteration of Xer life when being cool and detached and hating anythingn that wasn't black was emphasized...

-Any chance you're exaggerating just a tad? (I'm afraid you're not...)

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

...But it will be practical Xers like us who will manage the Crisis...

-What's the alternative?

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

...Yet another cannot believe that if I want a cake, I can pull out flour, sugar, eggs and the like and MAKE one... you hear "you actually made this??" To which I, and my roommate (who is white, but who had almost the exact same childhood experiences of being a "weirdo") just shrug and say, "Whatever."...

-A while back, we ended up discussing apparent Millenial ineptitude in basic skills on the "Kid Nation" thread:

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

...I was a little puzzled watching The Next Greatest Generation trying to cook macaroni (and failing miserably)...

Oh well.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

-There's nothing wrong with self-esteem, as long as it's earned (thru' accomplishments); otherwise, it's like the end of "The Wizard of Oz" where the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion get prizes that mean nothing.

It looks as though you missed the point entirely. You probably need to watch the film again.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

-Gyms are usually for wussies with more money than sense. Outside of wear & tear on clothes and footwear, and extra showers, PT should be free. If you make exercise a practical part of your life (as Skabungus has), you stop noticing it.

Agreed. Farm work = PT. There's no way around that. Mowing and weeding the garden are aerobic. Chainsawing and lugging logs is anaerobic. You get it all and you get paid instead of paying. The other thing is that gyms require "workout attire". This is a dress code. A lot of us Jonesers do not do dress codes!

I'm not so sure about the "meditation of the mind" part tho':

Skabungus is an ENFP. They do stuff like that. Moi? I prefer heavy metal music and the mind on the farm. .... Meditation? Phooey!

-A while back, we ended up discussing apparent Millenial ineptitude in basic skills on the "Kid Nation" thread:

Actually, I have one Millie nephew I work on the farm. He does rather well and is going to be strong as an ox. I should have pics soon since I'll be seeing all 5 next week. It's a mixed bag. There are 2 nephews who make the PT cut. The others took after their fathers. One is thin as a rail, and two others who are, well, to be blunt, obese.

Originally Posted by Semo '75

It looks as though you missed the point entirely. You probably need to watch the film again.

I really had the Scarecrow in mind, after he got his Doctorate in Thinkology:

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/Div/Winc.../scarecrw.html


Ooh wee ooh, ah-ohh-oh!

This is an interesting discussion! I live in urban NE Portland and just about everyone on my block (including us) has a vegetable garden. There was an article in the local paper about how nurseries were running out of vegetable starts this spring because of the huge increase in first-time gardeners. Edibles also seem to be replacing front lawns.

The largest increase in novice gardeners seemed to be among young Xer parents who wanted to feed their kids organic veggies, but also wanted to watch their budget. The Xer parents across the street just bought a couple of chickens so that they could have fresh eggs. Also, schools are increasingly planting "learning gardens" in which kids plant, tend and harvest the veggies, and then help prepare them in the cafeteria. Parents, kids and neighborhood volunteers tend the gardens during the summer.

Here's the article about the increase in home veggie gardens:

http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...s_struggl.html

And here's a story about one of the many local school gardens:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=6515242

Maybe after they're eligible for the old people discount at the Denny's.

Nomad Luis Bunuel did some of his best and most award-winning work in the 1970s including Le Charme Discret de la Bourgeoisie and Cet Obscur Objet du Desir. He was in his 70s then.

(In my view That Obscure Object of Desire eeks out a narrow win over Foul Play for the best performance by a dwarf in the 1970s.)

Originally Posted by Neisha '67

There was an article in the local paper about how nurseries were running out of vegetable starts this spring because of the huge increase in first-time gardeners. Edibles also seem to be replacing front lawns.

No doubt, you'll soon be able to loudly crow:

I was a Depressionist before Depressionism was cool!

The grueling cruel nature of 25% unemployment rates notwithstanding, our determined march toward 4T never sounded so, well, really cool, man!

I think you briefly touched on it. GenX is having babies late. A better future for their kids will mobilize GenX quicker than we thought possible.

GenX having babies late may be the key. A better future for their kids is likely to motivate, prompt change quicker than what appears possible now.

Nomad/Reactive generations become deadly serious about moral, political, and cultural life when they find that the way of life that they thought would guarantee success (athleticism in the workplace, firm belief in unqualified free market capitalism, trust in commercial hierarchies, and materialistic hedonism as a way of finding meaning in life) fall apart. They become cautious when the few objects of faith that they had in in youth betray them -- when middle age starts to slow them down, when the capitalist system begins to reward people mostly for the right affiliations and connections, when free markets that in times other than 3Ts create widespread prosperity allow it only for a few, and when materialistic hedonism either exposes its emptiness or becomes available only to questionable persons. What survives? Their pragmatism and their sense of individual responsibility, both of which are taken for granted in a 3T but prove necessary in a 4T.

Even if they are more politically conservative than other generations at all ages, and especially in youth, they are not fools forever. When so-called conservatives betray their best interests they then turn on the so-called conservatism that others created to exploit their early proclivities while serving the creators of that conservatism. Nomad/Reactive generations might not do the Big Thinking of the older Prophet/Idealist generation -- but they can test every prophecy and ideal against each other and decide which prophecy or ideal has the best chance of success. That proves a far safer role for them -- after all, in a 4T, the Prophet/Idealist generation is running out of time in which to express itself in creating a new and better world than the failed 3T world. Pragmatism and the sense of individual responsibility will be the only measure against which Idealist prophecies can be measured before they are enacted.

Yes, the 3T paradigm is a catastrophic failure; every prior 3T was one. Because there has been no calamitous war of the nature of World War I or the French and Indian War to turn Nomad/Reactives into cannon fodder on a large scale, at least in America, the Thirteenth Generation needs "only" endure economic calamity worse than any since the Great Depression. But even if such is the sole calamity it is enough to cause Thirteeners whether the world won't be such a good place for their children whom they deem deserving of far better than a speculative boom.

All in all, the Idealist prophecy most compatible with the eternal truths that a Nomad/Reactive generation learns the hard way and at greatest personal costis likely to prevail. Those eternal truths include:

1. That toil is the only means of turning some paper scheme into reality. Anyone can draw lines on a map and decide that such lines denote a good path for a bullet train -- but without the material basis, such a vision cannot be realized.

2. That the prosperity of the workforce is the only measure of prosperity for a society. Any system can reward people for being born into the right family, having the right political connections, or having bureaucratic power. If you want to see what societies are most prosperous, then look at people in trades and professions that aren't so different in function from country to country. How do such people as barbers, plumbers, and schoolteachers do? Big landowners, leading figures of a dominant political party, gangsters, and high-ranking military officers do well everywhere.

3. That skill is the only way of preventing the waste of labor. Thirteeners will not be as adept at the athleticism that they displayed on the job in a 3T. Even if they were not allowed to work smart, they will have to show others the incremental value of craftsmanship and skill.

4. That the greatest successes are first perfected on a small scale before being magnified as a model. Pathologies in organizations that grow too big outgrow those organizations and often prove their downfall.

5. That enterprise has no viable alternative. The only seeming alternative, the command economy, has proved an abject failure.

6. Reward is best left to those who do real good for others -- not for guessing right, cornering markets, or bamboozling people.

I think that "when" just depends upon the right spark--both for Gen X and for everyone else. We've seen a few potential sparks so far this decade but, so far, they've mostly fizzled.

As for myself, I was born in the middle of Generation X, I've already had my personal spark, of sorts, to ignite my political fervor--and, as a result, I'm already working in crisis mode, to some degree. But most of my neighbors, statistically speaking, appear to still be in unraveling mode, which I find terribly frustrating. In case it interests anyone here, here's my personal experience...

Somehow, I've always been rather interested in political matters. When I was young, my Church's President, Ezra Taft Benson, spoke powerfully once about our divine Constitution. And that, at least in part, got me interested in reading more about what he and other church leaders had said about this subject as I grew older. Over time, I gradually learned more about libertarian philosophy, Constitutional law, principles of foreign policy, and so forth. But, for a long time, my political interest remained relatively more focused on the inner world of ideas than on the actual outer world that surrounded me.

In 2000, I didn't pay much attention to the primary elections, as usual. I both assumed and hoped that Bush would prove to be at least somewhat of a true conservative. Instead, he spent the next several years warring against practically every political principle in which I believed. This fact became especially clear to me as, just a few years ago, I spent less time reading philosophy and such and more time discussing current events and such with others on online forums. After suffering through many years of loneliness, connecting with others through those forums was a welcome change for me.

By 2007, I felt sufficiently outraged that, as the next Presidential election process began, I determined to pick the best darn Republican candidate I could find and promote the heck out of him between then and this year's primary elections. When Ron Paul announced his exploratory committee, I knew enough about him then to immediately get behind him. For over a year afterward, I worked dang hard here in Utah to promote his candidacy at political conventions, town parades, farmers' markets, public bulletin boards, street corners, my neighbors' doorsteps, et cetera--not just by myself but with a group of up to 250 people that I helped to organize in my county. After tremendous hard work and some personal sacrifice from so many of us for so long, Ron Paul placed second in our county during Utah's primary election--but with only 5% of all votes, since 89% of our neighbors still preferred that conservative-talkin' LDS guy with the nice hair.

Next week, I'll be in Minneapolis when Ron Paul kicks off his new Campaign for Liberty. I see economic/political trouble looming on our nation's horizon more clearly now than ever before--and I'm still trying to help my neighbors to catch the same spark that I did and to deal properly with these troubles looming at our doors. For now, it's tough--but I don't believe that they'll be able to stay asleep for much longer, politically. Even if they never see trouble coming, they'll certainly see it when it arrives.

So, again, I have no idea just how soon Generation X, as a whole, will get serious--but I can say that I already am.

Originally Posted by DaveGarber1975

I think that "when" just depends upon the right spark--both for Gen X and for everyone else. We've seen a few potential sparks so far this decade but, so far, they've mostly fizzled.

As for myself, I was born in the middle of Generation X, I've already had my personal spark, of sorts, to ignite my political fervor--and, as a result, I'm already working in crisis mode, to some degree. But most of my neighbors, statistically speaking, appear to still be in unraveling mode, which I find terribly frustrating. In case it interests anyone here, here's my personal experience...

Somehow, I've always been rather interested in political matters. When I was young, my Church's President, Ezra Taft Benson, spoke powerfully once about our divine Constitution. And that, at least in part, got me interested in reading more about what he and other church leaders had said about this subject as I grew older. Over time, I gradually learned more about libertarian philosophy, Constitutional law, principles of foreign policy, and so forth. But, for a long time, my political interest remained relatively more focused on the inner world of ideas than on the actual outer world that surrounded me.

In 2000, I didn't pay much attention to the primary elections, as usual. I both assumed and hoped that Bush would prove to be at least somewhat of a true conservative. Instead, he spent the next several years warring against practically every political principle in which I believed. This fact became especially clear to me as, just a few years ago, I spent less time reading philosophy and such and more time discussing current events and such with others on online forums. After suffering through many years of loneliness, connecting with others through those forums was a welcome change for me.

By 2007, I felt sufficiently outraged that, as the next Presidential election process began, I determined to pick the best darn Republican candidate I could find and promote the heck out of him between then and this year's primary elections. When Ron Paul announced his exploratory committee, I knew enough about him then to immediately get behind him. For over a year afterward, I worked dang hard here in Utah to promote his candidacy at political conventions, town parades, farmers' markets, public bulletin boards, street corners, my neighbors' doorsteps, et cetera--not just by myself but with a group of up to 250 people that I helped to organize in my county. After tremendous hard work and some personal sacrifice from so many of us for so long, Ron Paul placed second in our county during Utah's primary election--but with only 5% of all votes, since 89% of our neighbors still preferred that conservative-talkin' LDS guy with the nice hair.

Next week, I'll be in Minneapolis when Ron Paul kicks off his new Campaign for Liberty. I see economic/political trouble looming on our nation's horizon more clearly now than ever before--and I'm still trying to help my neighbors to catch the same spark that I did and to deal properly with these troubles looming at our doors. For now, it's tough--but I don't believe that they'll be able to stay asleep for much longer, politically. Even if they never see trouble coming, they'll certainly see it when it arrives.

So, again, I have no idea just how soon Generation X, as a whole, will get serious--but I can say that I already am.

Bravo! And saving Ron Paul, who is your second choice?

BTW - in Denver tonight - Governor Bill Richardson was the only one to talk about civil liberties and our rights, and against torture and in favor of fair trials etc. Go, Guv!

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Bravo! And saving Ron Paul, who is your second choice?

During the primaries, among fellow Republicans, my second choice was Tom Tancredo, followed by Duncan Hunter. I could have lived with them okay, unlike most of their competitors. Near, if not at, the bottom of my list was (ugh!!!) that darn John McCain.

Now that our nation's political parties have all determined their respective Presidential nominees, my first choice would be Chuck Baldwin, followed by Bob Barr. Both personal virtue and political wisdom are very important to me. And I can't bring myself to support a candidate who's spent his entire career fighting against so much of what I believe--and that applies to both McCain and Obama.

I've never voted third-party before; but, these days, I'm placing principle above party and researching every candidate as thoroughly as I can before I vote on them--even the local ones.

Although our group failed to get many votes for Ron Paul, we learned much about intra-party politics during this last year (as well as what schmucks some of our party's state/local leaders are)--and many of us want to keep fighting to have an even stronger impact on the GOP in 2010. And 2012. Et cetera. We now have quite a few corrupt RINOs in our scope who desperately need to be retired from public life...

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

-Gyms are usually for wussies with more money than sense. Outside of wear & tear on clothes and footwear, and extra showers, PT should be free. If you make exercise a practical part of your life (as Skabungus has), you stop noticing it. I'm not so sure about the "meditation of the mind" part tho':

Most people, given the chance, do what they can to avoid doing heavy physical labor. That's why people go to college and that's why people not college material often seek ill-paid clerical work. Heavy physical work as performed by ranch hands, stevedores, loggers, oil-field roustabouts, steelworkers, construction laborers, and commercial fishermen often has danger and unpleasant conditions attached. Military combat is the ultimate combination of danger and unpleasant conditions.

-There's nothing wrong with self-esteem, as long as it's earned (thru' accomplishments); otherwise, it's like the end of "The Wizard of Oz" where the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion get prizes that mean nothing.

Awards from a pompous windbag are usually empty -- but the "dumb" scarecrow proved that he could think things out, and even a simpleton who uses rational thought can achieve much. The Tin Man proved that by showing concern for others he had empathy. The Cowardly Lion that Toto could scare showed courage by sticking up for comrades against the Wicked Witch. Give a d@mn for others, apply rational thought even with limited knowledge and brain power, and co-operate for a common objective... that sounds like a military unit at its best -- right? The diploma to the scarecrow, the heart-shaped pocket watch to the Tin Man, and a medal to the lion -- those are all empty in contrast to the virtues that they represent.

Just watch the movie. It's one of the greatest ever made, and in nearly seventy years it has lost nothing.