Originally Posted by Chemicalbaritone

I have noticed that many 3T debates are still continuing now. Also, I noticed that Silents are desperately clinging to political power. I noticed that many Silents still think that they are the generation in charge of politics and business, many Boomers still think that they are still the young generation, many Xers act like they are in their late teens or in early college, and many Millennials act like they are in pre-school or in elementary school. It seems to me that age roles of living US generations are by and large the same as they were in 1986-1989. It seems like each generation is refusing to let go of their old phase of life and is refusing to transition into the new phase of life. Many Silents want to extend their stay as political and business experts, many Boomers go to extreme measures to look 20 years younger than their age, many Xers want to extend their youth years, and Millennials just don't want to grow up. It seems to me that each generation is comfortable with the phase of life that it occupied since late 1980s, so much that they don't want to move on. I see this A LOT in Xers especially! Many of them still act like it's the grunge era! Many of them still retain their habits from that time. This is probably why Millennials are so much infantilized and treated like little children, because the previous generation has not fully moved itself into adulthood. Does anyone agree with what I had just written? Does anyone also notice the tendency of each generation to cling to their 3T phase of life?

Silents have been very slow to relinquish power. By my count, there are currently 33 Silents in the US Senate. Silents fill both Senate party leader positions (Reid and McConnell), and they chair many of the committees in the House and the Senate. Here is a listing:

House (12/21):
-Appropriations: Dave Obey
-Armed Services: Ike Skelton
-Budget: John Spratt
-Energy and Commerce: Henry Waxman
-Financial Services/Finance: Barney Frank
-Foreign Affairs/Relations: Howard Berman
-Judiciary: John Conyers
-Oversight and Government Reform: Ed Towns
-Rules: Louise Slaughter
-Transportation and Infrastructure: Jim Oberstar
-Veteran’s Affairs: Bob Filner
-Ways and Means: Charles Rangel

Senate (11/20):
-Aging: Herb Kohl
-Armed Services: Carl Levin
-Commerce, Science and Transportation: Jay Rockefeller
-Ethics: Barbara Boxer
-Environment and Public Works: Barbara Boxer
-Finance: Max Baucus
-Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions: Tom Harkin
-Homeland Security and Government Affairs: Joe Lieberman
-Indian Affairs: Byron Dorgan
-Intelligence: Dianne Feinstein
-Judiciary: Patrick Leahy

As we can see, Silents still hold a great deal of power in our legislature. This could be the result of them not wanting to relinquish it, or the result of other generations not wanting to step up to the plate. Furthermore, something that could be complicating matters is the increasing lifespan of Americans. In previous 4Ts, many of the old Artists had very little power because a lot of them had died off before the 4T began. It would be interesting to see the percentage of chairs that the Progressives had early in the previous 4T.

With Boomers, there has been big interest in maintaining aspects of their youth, whether it is plastic surgery, or celebrating the music of the 1960s and 1970s. Furthermore, some Boomers, not all, just do not want to let some cultural issues diffuse and focus on the more serious problems that we face.

For Xers, I feel most are starting to mature and slow down, but I do know quite a few who still go out on the town and party like college students.

Finally, for Millennials, quite a few Millennials I know still act bit childish by watching the same Disney movies that they did 15 years ago when they were little kids. Some do this on a regular basis. I hope that the 4T will wake these Millies up and make them realize that they need to get a backbone to make it through the Crisis.

I have some more feelings to share on this topic that are posted here: http://fourthturning.com/forum/showp...&postcount=386
　
　
　
　

Originally Posted by Chemicalbaritone

I have noticed that many 3T debates are still continuing now. Also, I noticed that Silents are desperately clinging to political power. I noticed that many Silents still think that they are the generation in charge of politics and business, many Boomers still think that they are still the young generation, many Xers act like they are in their late teens or in early college, and many Millennials act like they are in pre-school or in elementary school. It seems to me that age roles of living US generations are by and large the same as they were in 1986-1989. It seems like each generation is refusing to let go of their old phase of life and is refusing to transition into the new phase of life. Many Silents want to extend their stay as political and business experts, many Boomers go to extreme measures to look 20 years younger than their age, many Xers want to extend their youth years, and Millennials just don't want to grow up. It seems to me that each generation is comfortable with the phase of life that it occupied since late 1980s, so much that they don't want to move on. I see this A LOT in Xers especially! Many of them still act like it's the grunge era! Many of them still retain their habits from that time. This is probably why Millennials are so much infantilized and treated like little children, because the previous generation has not fully moved itself into adulthood. Does anyone agree with what I had just written? Does anyone also notice the tendency of each generation to cling to their 3T phase of life?

It's mainly because of the Boomers' refusal to let go of their youth. In a general sense, we all, in this society, are only allowed to fill the roles that Boomers allow us to fill. In the case of Generation X, we were forced to grow up too fast. Many were basically left to take care of themselves from an early age, and/or divided up between separated parents, step parents, etc. Adults (especially Boomer adults) were unreliable and untrustworthy.

Boomers completely dominate society, regardless of which phase of life they're in. So you could say that even now, most Xers only live in the "gaps" Boomers haven't occupied or shut off completely. It's kind of like...as long as the Boomers run the show, all you get is bread and water, so you learn to live on bread and water, and make the best of it.

Once they start to lose power, which I think will start to happen very soon if it hasn't already, maybe things will change. Nomads got their opportunity last time around, and used it to the fullest. Maybe this time there aren't enough, too many were aborted, and the Boomers will continue to steer the ship until it's destroyed on an iceberg. I have hope, but not a lot of confidence.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

It's mainly because of the Boomers' refusal to let go of their youth. In a general sense, we all, in this society, are only allowed to fill the roles that Boomers allow us to fill. In the case of Generation X, we were forced to grow up too fast. Many were basically left to take care of themselves from an early age, and/or divided up between separated parents, step parents, etc. Adults (especially Boomer adults) were unreliable and untrustworthy.

Boomers completely dominate society, regardless of which phase of life they're in. So you could say that even now, most Xers only live in the "gaps" Boomers haven't occupied or shut off completely. It's kind of like...as long as the Boomers run the show, all you get is bread and water, so you learn to live on bread and water, and make the best of it.

Once they start to lose power, which I think will start to happen very soon if it hasn't already, maybe things will change. Nomads got their opportunity last time around, and used it to the fullest. Maybe this time there aren't enough, too many were aborted, and the Boomers will continue to steer the ship until it's destroyed on an iceberg. I have hope, but not a lot of confidence.

I think pretty soon our cohort will be from 1965-1976 as some would like.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

It's mainly because of the Boomers' refusal to let go of their youth. In a general sense, we all, in this society, are only allowed to fill the roles that Boomers allow us to fill.

Actually, that may say a lot about why the Silents have hung on to power (corporate and political) as remarkably long as they have. To no small extent, Boomers want them to remain there as the steady, reliable adults who do all the boring grown-up stuff like the day-to-day management of society. It's how they've always interacted with their Silent elders, and it's a big part of what's allowed them to maintain that illusion of eternal youth, as well as their intensely moralistic worldviews. Furthermore, Boomers are as divided as ever when it comes to who they want as their own leaders. There's still a seemingly unbridgeable ideological gap: Newt Gingrich or Bill Clinton; Al Gore or G.W. Bush. Obviously, it all goes back to the 1960s.

In the case of Generation X, we were forced to grow up too fast. Many were basically left to take care of themselves from an early age, and/or divided up between separated parents, step parents, etc. Adults (especially Boomer adults) were unreliable and untrustworthy.

Regardless of when we actually came of age, all Xers "grew up" in the 1970s as far as I'm concerned. We're the spiritual children of that painful transition time. More importantly, it was that same decade when it became clear that the core Boomers were decidedly not going to grow up anymore. So in a way, the two generations entered the 80s on the same playing field. But of course it was not a level playing field at all--and so it became the decade where Xers all got really screwed. So, if it can be said that our inner selves are products of the turbulent 1970s, our toughened outer selves are mainly the result of the brutal inequalities of the 80s and 90s.

Boomers completely dominate society, regardless of which phase of life they're in. So you could say that even now, most Xers only live in the "gaps" Boomers haven't occupied or shut off completely. It's kind of like...as long as the Boomers run the show, all you get is bread and water, so you learn to live on bread and water, and make the best of it.

Yep. Although the "bread" in question is a $5 Big Mac and the "water" is an $8 mocha latte from Starbucks. At least we have had some compensation for getting royally ripped off.

Once they start to lose power, which I think will start to happen very soon if it hasn't already, maybe things will change. Nomads got their opportunity last time around, and used it to the fullest. Maybe this time there aren't enough, too many were aborted, and the Boomers will continue to steer the ship until it's destroyed on an iceberg. I have hope, but not a lot of confidence.

I'm 34 years old, about to become a homeowner for the first time, and perhaps even start a family soon. You simply get to a point in life where you can't NOT have hope for the future, whether or not you really believe in it.

-----

Originally Posted by 1990

...
Xers may be the slowest to take the cold shower, though. As the oldest of them hit 45, many of them still act like cynical and free-spirited youth. I don't yet see signs of the reversing-course expected of Nomads in midlife, in which they work to broaden gender differences, simplify their lives, settle down, and "get serious". Many Xers are having their first kids at 40 or older, and most that I talk to are still in a very 3T frame of mind.

I'm a Gen-Xer but I'm well past the "free-spirited youth" stage, that's for sure.

There's a joke amongst my peers and that is there will be no social security when we get old because the Boomers gave us the shaft real HARD by running up a massive deficit.
However saying and doing are 2 different things.
I see a lot of upset grumbling but not much action being taken to prepare for the future.

Maybe you're right?

Originally Posted by MJC

Regardless of when we actually came of age, all Xers "grew up" in the 1970s as far as I'm concerned.

Not me. I grew up in the 80s, and "came of age" as S&H put it, in the 90s. Certainly the hangover of the 2T was palpable, but I - wrongly and naively - thought that was all in the past when I was growing up. I thought things were getting better. Little did I know it was only a a pause. The war between the GIs and Boomers was always won by the GIs, until they got too old to do anything about it. Once they had moved aside, in the early 90s, it was time for the kids to have a party. It got out of control, somebody got sloppy firing up the bong, and the house burned down. Which is where we are now.

We're the spiritual children of that painful transition time. More importantly, it was that same decade when it became clear that the core Boomers were decidedly not going to grow up anymore. So in a way, the two generations entered the 80s on the same playing field.

This is true.

But of course it was not a level playing field at all--and so it became the decade where Xers all got really screwed. So, if it can be said that our inner selves are products of the turbulent 1970s, our toughened outer selves are mainly the result of the brutal inequalities of the 80s and 90s.

If by "brutal inequalities", you mean the Boomers controlling the direction of society and culture, acting as gatekeepers and only allowing the small minority of Xers they approved of to rise to the top, then yes. The idea that grunge music, or the various Xers who made it into the entertainment industry and media through the approval of Boomers, actually represent Xers is laughable.

Economically speaking, Xers had been doing relatively well up until now. Now, they've lost close to half of their home values and whatever savings they had, and stand poised to be raped, over and over and over again, during their peak earning years by massive tax increases to pay for the Boomers' bloated entitlement bills, deficits, and whatever other insane new programs they manage to impose until the current "leadership" in Washington is (hopefully) thrown out of office.

While I don't have any data on it, I would say that the majority of the Tea Party protesters are probably Xers, and the majority of the town hall/health care people appear to be Silents. That is a good sign that those two groups may be starting to say to Boomers "you've screwed us long enough". Whether the Boomers' sheer size and dominance can be overcome is another matter.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

Whether the Boomers' sheer size and dominance can be overcome is another matter.

This is where the millennials come in. We are the only ones with enough numbers to overwhelm boomer dominance. I'm optimistic. We showed that we can come together and make something happen in the 2008 election, and when the time comes we will do it again; this time with even more numbers at our disposal.

Originally Posted by Jordan '88

This is where the millennials come in. We are the only ones with enough numbers to overwhelm boomer dominance. I'm optimistic. We showed that we can come together and make something happen in the 2008 election, and when the time comes we will do it again; this time with even more numbers at our disposal.

Millennial adults will choose the Boom agenda most fitting their desires and Crisis-era needs. That's how it works between a younger Civic generation and an older an older Idealist generation. Luke Skywalker meets Obi-Wan Kenobe, or heroes of Britain's Finest Hour get their inspiration from Sir Winston Churchill.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

It's mainly because of the Boomers' refusal to let go of their youth. In a general sense, we all, in this society, are only allowed to fill the roles that Boomers allow us to fill. In the case of Generation X, we were forced to grow up too fast. Many were basically left to take care of themselves from an early age, and/or divided up between separated parents, step parents, etc. Adults (especially Boomer adults) were unreliable and untrustworthy.

Boomers completely dominate society, regardless of which phase of life they're in. So you could say that even now, most Xers only live in the "gaps" Boomers haven't occupied or shut off completely. It's kind of like...as long as the Boomers run the show, all you get is bread and water, so you learn to live on bread and water, and make the best of it.

Once they start to lose power, which I think will start to happen very soon if it hasn't already, maybe things will change. Nomads got their opportunity last time around, and used it to the fullest. Maybe this time there aren't enough, too many were aborted, and the Boomers will continue to steer the ship until it's destroyed on an iceberg. I have hope, but not a lot of confidence.

I do believe that by and large we are still not paying attention to a lot of the warning signals. However, the Boomers have by and large rejected the reckless ways of their "free love" stage, and for most the sexual resumes are a lot shorter these days. They are much more concerned about health, and also expect those both above and beneath them to do the same. A far cry from the anthem of sex, drugs and rock 'n roll. They may have hung onto some of the music, but, IMO, that is about all. Therefore, the whole idea that they never grew up is worth taking a second or even a third look. I believe they did that with a vengeance circa mid-1980's.

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

I do believe that by and large we are still not paying attention to a lot of the warning signals. However, the Boomers have by and large rejected the reckless ways of their "free love" stage, and for most the sexual resumes are a lot shorter these days. They are much more concerned about health, and also expect those both above and beneath them to do the same. A far cry from the anthem of sex, drugs and rock 'n roll. They may have hung onto some of the music, but, IMO, that is about all. Therefore, the whole idea that they never grew up is worth taking a second or third look. I believe they did that with a vengeance dirca mid-1980's.

If DUs response to the recent Hofstra gang-rape hoax case is any indication, "sexual liberation" is deader than dead. Many posters, myself included, were saying "it may not have been rape, but those guys were still scuzz-buckets for engaging in such an inherently misogynistic act as a gang bang"

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x6591922

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

I do believe that by and large we are still not paying attention to a lot of the warning signals. However, the Boomers have by and large rejected the reckless ways of their "free love" stage, and for most the sexual resumes are a lot shorter these days. They are much more concerned about health, and also expect those both above and beneath them to do the same. A far cry from the anthem of sex, drugs and rock 'n roll. They may have hung onto some of the music, but, IMO, that is about all. Therefore, the whole idea that they never grew up is worth taking a second or third look. I believe they did that with a vengeance circa mid-1980's.

The Boomers once deeply into "sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll" and not gotten away from them are either dead, brain-dead, or prematurely-old. Boomers have made one of the most lasting efforts to attack drugs, including ethyl alcohol, the old mainstay of mind-alteration; if they haven't outlawed it, they have at least gone after drunk driving and spouse/child abuse (much of the latter under the influence of drugs or alcohol). Anyone still "into" Sixties ways is discredited.

The only ways in which most of us Boomers can have any of the desirable features of youth -- and some of us can't avoid the wrinkles or graying and thinning hair -- is to develop better health habits. That means supplementing one's work with exercise, not smoking, reducing alcohol consumption, giving up sweets, and cutting back drastically on saturated fats. That means not sleeping around (if we ever had such a proclivity), and certainly not driving as fast or aggressively. We can keep our minds active... and we will probably do that longer than anything else; such is the Idealist way.

There are some things that one just can't do at age 60, but there are some things that some people absolutely must do at age 75 or so (aside from, of course, dying).

False Rape Accusations and Rape Culture

Originally Posted by Matt1989

False Rape Accusations and Rape Culture

Page load error 404.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Page load error 404.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/b...-rape-culture/

Try this one. There was an extra http// in the URL.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Millennial adults will choose the Boom agenda most fitting their desires and Crisis-era needs. That's how it works between a younger Civic generation and an older an older Idealist generation. Luke Skywalker meets Obi-Wan Kenobe, or heroes of Britain's Finest Hour get their inspiration from Sir Winston Churchill.

Or, in this case, hippie meets yuppie, free love meets scapegoating on this, this, and whatever else?

Originally Posted by Joral

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/b...-rape-culture/

Try this one. There was an extra http// in the URL.

Thanks. That one worked. Sigh - it's still the same old story, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Matt1989

False Rape Accusations and Rape Culture

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Page load error 404.

Originally Posted by Joral

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/b...-rape-culture/

Try this one. There was an extra http// in the URL.

Fixed.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Thanks. That one worked. Sigh - it's still the same old story, isn't it?

Yeah (I think we're in agreement here). I get kind of annoyed when people refer to sexism and patriarchy like they are things of the past. I like to think that my eyes are open.

Anyway, something is definitely screwed up about this story, and it calls into question our notions of "consent."

Originally Posted by Matt1989

Anyway, something is definitely screwed up about this story, and it calls into question our notions of "consent."

I made similar comments on DU, excacerbated a flame-war.

Originally Posted by Odin

I made similar comments on DU, excacerbated a flame-war.

Shouldn't this topic be placed under another thread, Milennial files false rape report, set victims of crimes back 30-40 years.

gen x is something you can't understand. you can't understand the way we work...are you a boomer? your question usually comes from boomers...

Originally Posted by Chemicalbaritone

and many Millennials act like they are in pre-school or in elementary school.

Originally Posted by lnz

gen x is something you can't understand. you can't understand the way we work...are you a boomer? your question usually comes from boomers...

Card-carrying member of the Xer 2nd wave.

Originally Posted by lnz

gen x is something you can't understand. you can't understand the way we work...are you a boomer? your question usually comes from boomers...

That question was asked two years ago. Welcome to the internet! Enjoy your stay!

1990,

I have some perspective on this because I just recently returned to college to finish my degree. When I attended ten years ago, my generation (X) was entirely different. Your generation is what S&H said you'd be. For example, we have two wars going on, no one is questioning it or protesting it, they just sort of trust Obama to do the right thing. Speaking of Obama, you also did something my generation didn't do - you got out there and you voted in massive numbers. I also see a sense of community, less cliquishness amongst your generation. You mentioned myspace and facebook - but that right there shows how community oriented your generation is. When my generation set the trends with the internet, no one really used it to come together, it was a tool of social fragmentation and niches. When I was first in college there was nothing like myspace or facebook, though great strides were being made in stealing music.

I think you're doing what most others on this board are: expecting Crisis climax behavior when we've only had a catalyst, and maybe a regeneracy. The expectation is on these boards is that suddenly a spark will occur and people will immediately change their life choices. What's important to remember is that these generations collectively cause these shifts and so individual choices may not change dramatically to meet what you would expect to see at the height of the crisis.
Case in point, if you talk to some GI's from the early part of the last 4th turning, if you are lucky enough to meet any, ask them what they did after school, they wouldn't sound that different from any other generation. The Millenials are not going to go out and spend all their time forming youth movements and donning various uniforms when not called upon to do so. Boomers are not going to stop being stuck on themselves, but they will hopefully put that aside in civic life when things get hotter. Furthermore, the 4T doesn't depend on anyone recognizing it. Upon rereading the 4T recently, I observed S&H's remark that the cycle is regular in America precisely because we are a society that believes history is NOT cyclical. We're probably in for another fifteen to twenty years of the 4T so enjoy winter's mild start, it'll snow plenty later on...


S