Originally Posted by spudzill

I am deeply sorry that Mr. Strauss is having such a difficult time. I am having medical issues with my family currently, so I feel for Him and his family. He did something good with his work, and in my case, it awakened a social conscience that I didn't have previous to reading his work 10 years ago.

spudzill, Mr. Strauss is not God Almighty, though he did discover part of God's creation. And it was the most important part!

I am deeply sorry. I can't find the words to describe my remorse for Bill Strauss and his family. Please, let us know if and when his condition gets any better, and I will pray that it does...

Back when Y2K was the social concern, an author whose website I visited regularly for Y2K prognostication wrote that the chimerac computer crisis may result in a Fourth Turning. The author linked to the old 4T website, and the rest was history.

Never met the man, nor spoke to him on the phone. The only things stopping me from going to one of the 4T meetups was college tuition and a 1983 Toyota Corolla.

Watching history go by, no matter how dramatic the events themselves be, is something always in slow motion. He will never know how things turned out, and this serves as a reminder that each of us face the same possibility. As cheesy as this sounds, each of us needs to cherish each other as long as we know each other, because we only live once.

On the morning of Septemer 11, 2001, I woke up to a nightmare, and have yet to wake from it. I hope that I live to see this era come to a peaceful, prosperous end, and raise a new generation that will know this era as Millennials know Vietnam, Xers know the 1950s, and Boomers know WW2.

I don't know what happens when you die. I hope that this life, what is happening at this very moment, are memories of a future me, and the same is true for all of you. Hopefully, we will all meet again after waking up on the cloning table.

I wish I could be more eloquent, but it is better to say a little now than much too late:

For the insights of Generations and The Fourth Turning, thank you. For the laughs of the "Capitol Steps", thank you. And for making a community and friendships possible, thank you. God bless and Godspeed.

I am so sorry to hear about Mr. Strauss's condition and his suffering. I pray for a peaceful journey at the right time (and hope with everyone else that he recovers and has many good years in the interim).

I have been entranced with the Generations theory ever since I first read the original book in Topeka back in the early 90's. I think the genius of the theory is how it combines the older circular or rhythmic conception of history with the Western linear version. History passes through a regular cycle that advances the society: rather than a circle or a line, it is more like the threads on a screw. I appreciate Mr. Strauss' work for how it illuminates history.

There have been cyclical views of history. And there have been studies of generations. The genius of Bill and Neil was to combine these two approaches into a plausible explanation of how history and society works. It is also a theory that can be tested. In my own case it provided a framework for explaining the conundrum of older British MPs voting to repeal the Corn Laws in 1846 while younger ones supported protectionism, regardless of political party. I remember joking on these boards some 8-9 years ago that they would go down as the 20th century equivalents of Marx and Engels. Now I seriously think that by providing such a radical analysis of social development, if verified by events in the near future, they probably will exceed them in importance.

For my own part, their theories have influenced how I vote and how I invest, and, should my health hold out, will form some of the analytical structure of two more books I have planned. Thanks Bill, even if you do come from an generation inferior to mine where such wit and wisdom as you have consistently displayed are noticeable mostly by their absence.

Pax et bonum,

Dave Krein '42

This is from Deanna Beppu.

It was noted in 13th Gen that nomads are particularly good diarists,
able to write convincingly of their feelings and observations.

Today this Nomad ('71) doesn't even know what to say. I'm not sure
that I can even if I tried. My condolences have already been
expressed informally to Janie and the family via David. Yet Bill
deserves something more - something better - and publicly posting a
tribute is still all too paltry but nonetheless only appropriate.

I first became acquainted with Bill and Neil's work as a disenchanted,
seeking twentysomething trying to figure out why she, the product of
affluence, wasn't a success like her parents. If you are a Gen Xer,
you know the early to mid-nineties was a tough time to be a fresh
college graduate. Generations and 13th Gen helped me see that some
things weren't necessarily my or my peers' fault. That someday for
all the crap slung at us we needed to show up sometime in the future
and prevent a righteous aquarian from turning the world's lights out.
Essentially, there was a purpose to our lives beyond self-destructing
so those adored Millenials could take over. Of course, the fact that
we'll get most of the blame and little of the credit shouldn't deter
us. Nope. As mentioned in Generations, history was counting on us to
graduate from Liar's Poker.

Needless to say, I was stunned. Here were two Boomers - members of a
generation that pilloried us from Eugene to D.C. - who wrote a book
standing up for their juniors. No wonder I had to meet them in person.

For those of you who were never privileged to meet him, let me echo
Matthew Elmslie and state that indeed, Bill was way more kinder to me
than I ever deserved. Most Gen Xers really don't have heroes. We're
too cynical and jaded. But William Strauss was one of those folks who
came close to filling that role for me.

I recognize on a daily basis that the seminal concepts espoused in 4T
and Generation are all around me. I don't think I ever told Bill or
Neil how much their work helped me to understand who I am and why I am
treading a particular life cycle. For that, consider this written
eulogy a belated apology.

Finally, I choose to remember Bill this way: standing tall in front of
the Lincoln Memorial in D.C. speaking with the inspiration and wisdom
of a true Gray Champion while a television news camera rolled on. The
network never showed the film. It should have. The crop of current
Boomer leaders would've learned something.

Deanna Beppu

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

After the presentation and Q&A everyone broke for refreshments and chatted. An older gentleman came in late and I struck up a conversation with him. He said, "I know Bill from his comedy work, but I don't know about all of this generations stuff." I proceeded to try to concisely explain what it was all about. The man, though seemingly irrascible and curmudgeonly, was polite enough to put up with me for a couple of minutes. At the very end of things, I saw Bill practically run off with this man in a giddy fashion. Bill was obviously quite excited to get time with him.

I found out soon enough that the man I was foolish enough to pedantize was none other than the famous Tom Lehrer! I felt like such an idiot. But what a wonderful experience it all was nevertheless.

That is a great story, Sean. I can just see Lehrer and Strauss together -- what a great image. Both terrific commentators on their times, with great comedy to boot.

Originally Posted by David Krein

I remember joking on these boards some 8-9 years ago that they would go down as the 20th century equivalents of Marx and Engels.

Except that S&H are far mor knowledgable than that b**** Marx and that b**** Engels. S&H will not be inspiring any murderous ideologies. Only good ones.

Originally Posted by sean '90

Except that S&H are far mor knowledgable than that b**** Marx and that b**** Engels. S&H will not be inspiring any murderous ideologies. Only good ones.

Good grief, man, you are one certifiable jerk. You post with the insight of an ant.

Sheesh, and to think I'm the one everybody here eagerly puts on their "Ignore List."

Originally Posted by zilch

Good grief, man, you are one certifiable jerk. You post with the insight of an ant.

Sheesh, and to think I'm the one everybody here eagerly puts on their "Ignore List."

Not everybody, Marc. He is on my ignore list and you are not. What would this board be without you?

Originally Posted by sean '90
Except that S&H are far mor knowledgable than that b**** Marx and that b**** Engels. S&H will not be inspiring any murderous ideologies. Only good ones.

Originally Posted by zilch

Good grief, man, you are one certifiable jerk. You post with the insight of an ant.

Sheesh, and to think I'm the one everybody here eagerly puts on their "Ignore List."

Gentlemen,

If there is one thread that should NOT devolve into a thoughtless flame-and-vent session, this would be the one.

Can we show some respect for Mr. Strauss and not do this? Please?

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

[/I]Gentlemen, If there is one thread that should NOT devolve into a thoughtless flame-and-vent session, this would be the one.

Can we show some respect for Mr. Strauss and not do this? Please? Thank you.

Lemmee git this straight, I call the little twerp on his mindless post in this thread and, consequently, I'm somehow disrespectfully venting and flaming?

Ugh. Stick a sock in it, Parker. You're every bit as mindless as the little ant twerp is.

Here is something I was planning to put into my first post but I forgot to when I was writing it.

I will always remember those strong and peculiar ways, those likes and dislikes Bill would have. His chagrin with Clinton's affair and the president's sneaky, serpentine sexual ways. No one could satirize Bubba's lusty drooling over other people's wives like Bill. The way he reeled at the unimaginative label "Generation Y". His particular fondness for Gilbert and Sullivan. His thing with profanity and what he called edginess in Generation X pop culture. His willingness to make fun of and play on the tendency of Xers and people younger than Xers to use the word "like". His perseveration in telling people there was no such thing as Generation Jones (although Susan and Anthony did eventually succeed in convincing me).

David, did you read Bill the article of mine I wanted to give him?

Originally Posted by sean '90

Legalize marijuana, keep the voting age at 18,

Are you the monarchist the Pervert told me about? I thought you would want to abolish voting altogether.

Mr. Strauss (or Bill, if you prefer),

I'm afraid that word's are insufficient here. All I can say is that I wish you and your family the best in these difficult times. My hopes and prayers are with you and them. You've touched so many lives and have offered insight to so many... But there's a lot of work left to do, so please get well soon!

Sincerely,
Chris

Originally Posted by James E. F. Landau

Are you the monarchist the Pervert told me about? I thought you would want to abolish voting altogether.

No, of course not. How do you think a lower house of Parliament could then be created? I am an Anglomonarchist, and support the traditional balance between Lords, Commons, and Sovereign, with variations allowed depending on national, cultural, and religious traditions.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

[/i]
Can we show some respect for Mr. Strauss and not do this? Please?

How on Earth is claiming S&H are going to have a much more beneficial effect on the world via saecular theory than Marx & Engels and their Communist theory did "not showing respect for Strauss"?

Originally Posted by sean '90

How on Earth is claiming S&H are going to have a much more beneficial effect on the world via saecular theory than Marx & Engels and their Communist theory did "not showing respect for Strauss"?

We are getting sick of semi-off topic monarchist-themed trolling.

Originally Posted by Odin

We are getting sick of semi-off topic monarchist-themed trolling.

You aren't allowed to use the "royal We". And S&H and Communism have nothing intrinsically to do with monarchy. I was clarifying an earlier post I made that apparently sounded to some people as if I was insulting them when I was actually complementing them.

Originally Posted by zilch

Lemmee git this straight, I call the little twerp on his mindless post in this thread and, consequently, I'm somehow disrespectfully venting and flaming?

Ugh. Stick a sock in it, Parker. You're every bit as mindless as the little ant twerp is.

Sean is a kid, and arguably hasn't learned any better yet. Forgive me for asking you to be the grownup here, Marc. I should have known better.

It's hard to believe that anyone's life has been affected by Strauss
and Howe's work more than mine. Generational Dynamics grew out of
The Fourth Turning theory, and has taken over my life as a total
obsession. Outside of working for a living, I rarely do anything
anymore unrelated to my web site.

On my web site I sometimes mention the mythical Cassandra. Apollo
fell in love with her and gave her the gift of seeing the future.
When she spurned his advances, he cursed her: She could still
prophesy the future, but nobody would believe her. When her
predictions came true, and the soldiers poured out of the Trojan
Horse and massacred most of the people in the city, she was reviled
and raped.

Strauss and Howe have never talked about this aspect of the work
they've done, but I have to believe that some form of this applies to
them as well -- the contempt directed at them by people who disparage
them just because that's what they like to do. For example, I've
been accused of WANTING a world war that would kill two billion
people, and I assume something like that has happened to them as
well.

If there is any redemption at all for people who use generational
theory to predict a dark future, it's in being able to save people by
telling them what's coming. This has been gratifying to me, as I
also get e-mail messages from people who thank me profusely for saving
them and their families. I assume that Strauss and Howe have also
received such messages, and in fact, some of the postings in this
thread are in that vein.

I normally carefully avoid trying to guess what other people think,
but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Strauss and Howe
would agree with the following advice that I've posted on this forum
and on my web site a number of times: Treasure the time that you have
left, and use it to prepare yourself, your family, your community and
your nation.

Bill's illness just makes the point about how important it is to
treasure the time that's left.

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

The problem with GD is that it assumes that the main threat of a nuclear war would come from communism and not radical islam. This despite the fact that communism died in 1989-1991. The main nightmare scenario would instead be if islamists use nukes against selected major western cities, followed by a western total war retaliatory campaign which would flatten the islamic world. In this scenario most of the war deaths would be in the islamic world and immediate surroundings with only the westerners in the centers of the target cities and troops killed in war would die.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

The problem with GD is that it assumes that the main threat of a nuclear war would come from communism and not radical islam. This despite the fact that communism died in 1989-1991. The main nightmare scenario would instead be if islamists use nukes against selected major western cities, followed by a western total war retaliatory campaign which would flatten the islamic world. In this scenario most of the war deaths would be in the islamic world and immediate surroundings with only the westerners in the centers of the target cities and troops killed in war would die.

This would have to count among the weirdest and most bizarre of "Objections
to Generational Dynamics" that I've received in some time.

Sincerely,

John

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

The problem with GD is that it assumes that the main threat of a nuclear war would come from communism and not radical islam. This despite the fact that communism died in 1989-1991. The main nightmare scenario would instead be if islamists use nukes against selected major western cities, followed by a western total war retaliatory campaign which would flatten the islamic world. In this scenario most of the war deaths would be in the islamic world and immediate surroundings with only the westerners in the centers of the target cities and troops killed in war would die.

I don't remember Xenakis ever even mentioning Communism...even once.