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Thread: It's time for national healthcare - Page 8







Post#176 at 08-16-2009 12:52 PM by haymarket martyr [at joined Sep 2008 #posts 2,547]
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08-16-2009, 12:52 PM #176
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Sadly, Sarah Palin could not find her own ass with two hands, a detailed body map and being spotted one cheek if it were THE TRUTH.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090811/...sDZmFjdGNoZWNr
Last edited by haymarket martyr; 08-16-2009 at 01:00 PM.







Post#177 at 08-16-2009 01:18 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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[QUOTE=haymarket martyr;274733]Sadly, Sarah Palin could not find her own ass with two hands, a detailed body map and being spotted one cheek if it were THE TRUTH.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090811/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_q_a;_ylt=ApxQBRzyaAjATz wjRoMkwmsGw_IE;_ylu=X3oDMTE5ZjYwM3VjBHBvcwMyBHNlYw N5bl9wcm9tb3NfdG9wX2JhcgRzbGsDZmFjdGNoZWNr[/QUOTE]

Huh. Maybe Haymarket really does have me on ignore.

Again, any governement run health care will eventually require something like a Death Panel, whether you like it or not. Now, following Ingsoc Party protocols, it won't be called a Death Panel, but rather an "Un Dead Think Group."


BTW, COS posted this:

Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
Taylor, were you aware that the section on end-of-life care was put in by that raging liberal Republican Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia?
...and Odin fell for it:

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
bwahahaha!!! :d
Oops:

http://www.sacbee.com/838/story/2104638.html?mi_rss=Wire+Politics

"This is what happenswhen the president and members of Congress don't read the bills..."

http://isakson.senate.gov/press/2009/081109healthcare.html


"Isakson vehemently opposes the House and Senate health care bills and he played no role in drafting language added to the House bill by House Democrats calling for the government to incentivize doctors by offering them money to conduct 'end-of-life counseling' with Medicare patients every five years. Isakson also strongly opposed the House bill language calling for doctors to follow a government-mandated list of topics to discuss with patients during the counseling sessions..."

...looks like COS and President Obama aren't very trustworthy sources, are they, oh One-Eyed God Of Wisdom?

---
Back to Haymarket':

I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look the guy up, and thank him for his inconvenience...

---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.







Post#178 at 08-16-2009 01:22 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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08-16-2009, 01:22 PM #178
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-The percentage of Americans who get medical care when they need it is already 100%, and this includes aliens (legal or otherwise ).

Interesting point on Obamacare (or any other socialized medicine):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574344900152168372.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

"...Mrs. Palin has also exposed a basic truth. A substantial portion of Medicare spending is incurred in the last six months of life..."

"...once health care is nationalized, or mostly nationalized, rationing care is inevitable, and those who have lived the longest will find their care the most restricted... Far from being a scare tactic, this is a logical conclusion based on experience and common-sense..."

"Mr. Obama's reply is that private insurance companies already ration, by deciding which treatments are covered and which aren't. However, there's an ocean of difference between coverage decisions made under millions of voluntary private contracts and rationing via government... Virtually every European government with "universal" health care restricts access in one way or another to control costs, and it isn't pretty..."
Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie...

I hope you are never a victim of the corporate insurance death panels.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#179 at 08-16-2009 01:24 PM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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08-16-2009, 01:24 PM #179
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JamesDGlick said "-The percentage of Americans who get medical care when they need it is already 100%, and this includes aliens (legal or otherwise )."

Does that include the people in Los Angeles lining up for long, long hours to see the Doctors Without Borders or whichever group it is? The man who has insurance but can't afford to pay for a $5,000 root canal (they cost THAT much?!?!?) - and all the rest? These are not, from the looks of them, the indigent homeless; they're ordinary middle-class people.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#180 at 08-16-2009 01:26 PM by haymarket martyr [at joined Sep 2008 #posts 2,547]
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08-16-2009, 01:26 PM #180
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from Odin - directed to another member spreading lies

I hope you are never a victim of the corporate insurance death panels.
I cannot join you in that sentiment.







Post#181 at 08-16-2009 01:40 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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08-16-2009, 01:40 PM #181
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Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
from Odin - directed to another member spreading lies...
-Oh, my!

Odin must have missed this point:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574344900152168372.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

"Mr. Obama's reply is that private insurance companies already ration, by deciding which treatments are covered and which aren't. However, there's an ocean of difference between coverage decisions made under millions of voluntary private contracts and rationing via government... Virtually every European government with "universal" health care restricts access in one way or another to control costs, and it isn't pretty..."

...as I say, it's all about the contract.

Previously, COS posted this:

Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
Taylor, were you aware that the section on end-of-life care was put in by that raging liberal Republican Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia?
...and Odin fell for it:

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
bwahahaha!!! :d
Oops:

http://www.sacbee.com/838/story/2104638.html?mi_rss=Wire+Politics

"This is what happenswhen the president and members of Congress don't read the bills..."

http://isakson.senate.gov/press/2009/081109healthcare.html

"Isakson vehemently opposes the House and Senate health care bills and he played no role in drafting language added to the House bill by House Democrats calling for the government to incentivize doctors by offering them money to conduct 'end-of-life counseling' with Medicare patients every five years. Isakson also strongly opposed the House bill language calling for doctors to follow a government-mandated list of topics to discuss with patients during the counseling sessions..."

...looks like COS and President Obama aren't very trustworthy sources, are they, oh One-Eyed God Of Wisdom?

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Really? I guess I must have misremembered what I've read about [Father Coughlin] in a book on the Depression I have.
1) What book?

2) What are the quotes?

3) Sources?

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
...Calling an obviously sane person crazy just because he/she disagrees with you is just pathetic on so many levels. Attack the ideas one disagree with, not the person...
...so is calling someone a "Liar" when you offer nothing to refute the argument of the person you disagree with.

It also makes you look silly when you end up eating your words a few posts down the line.

---
Back to Haymarket':

I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look the guy up, and thank him for his inconvenience...

---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.








Post#182 at 08-16-2009 01:50 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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08-16-2009, 01:50 PM #182
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Some words of wisdom for Glick:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x6317653

Denying health care to sick people because they can't pay is immoral.

It's IMMORAL and people who support a system like that do NOT have any morals values.

That is a fact.

Conservatives should be called immoral hundreds of times a day.

This is a very simple and indisputable truth. When you deny sick people healthcare because they don't have enough money to pay for it you are indirectly committing an act of murder.

Conservatives know this therefore they are committing pre-mediated murder by proxy.

Murder is immoral. Conservatives who support murder are immoral. PERIOD!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#183 at 08-16-2009 01:57 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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08-16-2009, 01:57 PM #183
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
1) Show me in the US Constitution where medical care is a right;

2) FWIW, it's already against Federal law to deny someone medical care (even aliens, legal, or otherwise)...

Unless, of course, if it's the government. Then, it'll be for the good of the state, and there'll be no recourse. Check every country that does it; the proof is in the pudding.

Again, read carefully:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574344900152168372.html?m od=googlenews_wsj

"Mr. Obama's reply is that private insurance companies already ration, by deciding which treatments are covered and which aren't. However, there's an ocean of difference between coverage decisions made under millions of voluntary private contracts and rationing via government... Virtually every European government with "universal" health care restricts access in one way or another to control costs, and it isn't pretty..."

...as I say, it's all about the contract.


BTW, you forgot to answer this, oh One-Eyed God of Wisdom:

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Really? I guess I must have misremembered what I've read about [Father Coughlin] in a book on the Depression I have.
1) What book?

2) What are the quotes?

3) Sources?

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
...Calling an obviously sane person crazy just because he/she disagrees with you is just pathetic on so many levels. Attack the ideas one disagree with, not the person...
...so is calling someone a "Liar" when you offer nothing to refute the argument of the person you disagree with.

It also makes you look silly when you end up eating your words a few posts down the line.

---
Back to Playwrite:

I'd still love to know: When PW was supposedly visiting SE Asia, did he bother to check out the "Anti-War" movement's handiwork in the re-education camps, and in the killing fields? The answer seems to be NO...

Back to Haymarket':

I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look the guy up, and thank him for his inconvenience...

---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.










Post#184 at 08-16-2009 03:54 PM by independent [at Jacksonville - still trying to decide if its Florida or Georgia here joined Apr 2008 #posts 1,286]
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08-16-2009, 03:54 PM #184
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Hey, I know...

Let's have a trillion dollar boondoggle that doesn't even provide a competing public option.

I don't think there's been a government ripoff this big since... well... last October?
'82 iNTp
"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." -Jefferson







Post#185 at 08-16-2009 04:08 PM by haymarket martyr [at joined Sep 2008 #posts 2,547]
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08-16-2009, 04:08 PM #185
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Well Indy, its your allies who have been pushing for this for months so you should be very very happy. .... if the report is accurate.

So I guess now health care reform passes without a negative vote????

Lets look at it from your side for a moment.
*** no public option
*** massive expansion and new customers for billion dollar private insurance companies
*** no death panels
*** no government take over of 1/6 of the economy
*** no single payer



this is a plan Sarah Palin and the Newtie can support and mutually climax over.
Last edited by haymarket martyr; 08-16-2009 at 04:17 PM.







Post#186 at 08-16-2009 04:20 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by independent View Post
Hey, I know...

Let's have a trillion dollar boondoggle that doesn't even provide a competing public option.

I don't think there's been a government ripoff this big since... well... last October?
-You're missing the point of the President's inspired bills, which is government control.

I like this free market idea for the un-insured:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052970203609204574316172512242220.html

...although there are insurance companies which would like BO to make it mandatory. Blech.

I overlooked this one:

Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
... The idea of people being subjected to boards that decide who is worthy of life and who is a "useless eater" is nothing new; it really is Nazi in the infamous "euthanasia" program...
-Uh, the Nazis got their ideas on euthanasia from where? American Progressives and British Fabian Socialists.

Go ahead, Odin, look it up, before you make yourself look silly again.

BTW, oh One-Eyed God of Wisdom, you've never illuminated how you could have been so wrong about FDR's one-time buddy Father Coughlin:


Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Really? I guess I must have misremembered what I've read about [Father Coughlin] in a book on the Depression I have.

...boy, did you ever "mis-remember".

1) What book?

2) What are the quotes?

3) Sources?

Do tell!
---
Back to Playwrite:

I'd still love to know: When PW was supposedly visiting SE Asia, did he bother to check out the "Anti-War" movement's handiwork in the re-education camps, and in the killing fields? The answer seems to be NO...

Back to Haymarket':

I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look the guy up, and thank him for his inconvenience...

---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.







Post#187 at 08-16-2009 04:21 PM by independent [at Jacksonville - still trying to decide if its Florida or Georgia here joined Apr 2008 #posts 1,286]
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08-16-2009, 04:21 PM #187
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Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
Well Indy, its your allies who have been pushing for this for months so you should be very very happy. .... if the report is accurate.
You just love speaking for others, don't ya? Well then, let's look at it from the corporate-Democrats' point of view:

*** reward lobbyists & contributors
*** pretend the reform helps the working commoners who really have to pay for it
*** blame Republicans for the terrible system built by Democrats

Sounds good, I guess this massive waste of money perfectly fits all the criteria for American political action.
'82 iNTp
"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." -Jefferson







Post#188 at 08-16-2009 04:51 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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08-16-2009, 04:51 PM #188
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I don't care if it's not in the constitution or not, denying people healthcare, or giving them healthcare and then bankrupting them with medical bills is WRONG, EVIL, and IMMORAL!!! PERIOD!!! This is a question of RIGHT and WRONG, of GOOD and EVIL.

Oh, but that's right, you conservative think empathy is a bad thing.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#189 at 08-16-2009 05:33 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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08-16-2009, 05:33 PM #189
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
I don't care if it's not in the constitution or not, denying people healthcare, or giving them healthcare and then bankrupting them with medical bills is WRONG, EVIL, and IMMORAL!!! PERIOD!!! This is a question of RIGHT and WRONG, of GOOD and EVIL.
-In case you haven't noticed, it's against Federal law to deny anyone (even illegals) medical care. And even before then, you'd have to look hard to find a case of anyone in the USA being denied medical care. But just wait until the government gets it's claws on it; then, there will be no recourse.

Why do you ignore what happens in countries that actually have adopted socialized medicine?

As for paying for medical bills, who has more a more vested interest in keeping YOU alive than YOU?

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
...Oh, but that's right, you conservative think empathy is a bad thing...
-We've already covered this:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/12/who_gives_to_charity.html\

"...the idea that liberals give more is a myth. Of the top 25 states where people give an above-average percentage of their income, all but one (Maryland) were red -- conservative -- states...it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more...Conservatives are even 18 percent more likely to donate blood..."

...so conservatives are the compassionate ones, while liberals are simply hypocrites who are "compassionate" with other peoples' money, time, and blood.
And you never did answer this:

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Really? I guess I must have misremembered what I've read about [Father Coughlin] in a book on the Depression I have.
1) What book?

2) What are the quotes?

3) Sources?
---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.







Post#190 at 08-16-2009 05:40 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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08-16-2009, 05:40 PM #190
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-In case you haven't noticed, it's against Federal law to deny anyone (even illegals) medical care. And even before then, you'd have to look hard to find a case of anyone in the USA being denied medical care. But just wait until the government gets it's claws on it; then, there will be no recourse.

Why do you ignore what happens in countries that actually have adopted socialized medicine?

As for paying for medical bills, who has more a more vested interest in keeping YOU alive than YOU?
No, you just become a debt-slave or bankrupt because you can't pay the medical bills. Or you can't get the medication one needs, or they die of cancer because the insurance company won't pay for chemo.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#191 at 08-16-2009 05:49 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
No, you just become a debt-slave or bankrupt because you can't pay the medical bills. Or you can't get the medication one needs, or they die of cancer because the insurance company won't pay for chemo.
-False fear-mongering:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/102934/Majority-Americans-Satisfied-Their-Own-Healthcare.aspx

...and you still haven't let us in on how you could have been so sadly mis-informed on FDR's erstwhile buddy Father Coughlin:

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Really? I guess I must have misremembered what I've read about [Father Coughlin] in a book on the Depression I have.
1) What book?

2) What are the quotes?

3) Sources?

...I hope my tax dollars didn't pay to send you to college...

---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.







Post#192 at 08-16-2009 07:13 PM by haymarket martyr [at joined Sep 2008 #posts 2,547]
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08-16-2009, 07:13 PM #192
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Odin
on the subject of Father Charles Coughlin of Royal Oak, Michigan and his role regarding President Franklin Roosevelt.....

Please be aware that there has been a right wing effort to rewrite history as it applies to both Franklin Roosevelt and the New Deal that has surfaced over the last several years. The right wing wants everyone to throw out their history books and accept the following as truth... ooops ... sorry.... TRUTH.

1- Hoover did not cause the Depression - FDR did.
2- Hoover is the source of the New Deal - not FDR.
3- The New Deal did not work and if it did it was due to Hoover.
4 -Proof of the failure of FDR's New Deal (I know, its a contradiction but go with it) is the 1937 recession.
5- The only thing which ended the Depression was WW 2 and that had nothing to do with spending but the cycle simply came back around to where it would have been without the New Deal messing up our free market system.

The leaders in this effort are the libertarian right.

Coughlin was an early ally of FDR in the early Thirties. He turned against FDR in 1934. By 1936, FDR was pretty much Public Enemy Number One in the weekly Sunday night radio broadcasts that Coughlin delivered. In fact, Coughlin joined with others to put up his own candidate and his own party to defeat FDR in the 1936 election - The National Union for Social Justice with William Lemke but he failed to garner even one million votes. Coughlin so hated Communism that he became enamored of fascism and expressed sympathy on the air for both Hitler and Mussolini. His embracing of Hitler and his turning against FDR in ever strident tones caused him to lose his radio show in 1940.

Coughlin was a terrible anti-Semite and hated both the Jewish religion and the Jewish people who he saw as allies of FDR.

this from the wikipedia entry

He began publication of a magazine, Social Justice, during this period, in which he printed antisemitic polemics such as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Like Joseph Goebbels, Coughlin claimed that Marxist atheism in Europe was a Jewish plot. The December 5, 1938 issue of Social Justice included an article by Coughlin which closely resembled a speech made by Goebbels on September 13, 1935 attacking Jews, atheists and communists, with some sections being copied verbatim by Coughlin from an English translation of the Goebbels speech. At a rally in the Bronx in 1938, he gave a Nazi salute and said, "When we get through with the Jews in America, they'll think the treatment they received in Germany was nothing." [16]
On November 20, 1938, two weeks after Kristallnacht, when Jews across Germany were attacked and killed, and Jewish businesses, homes and synagogues burned, Coughlin said "Jewish persecution only followed after Christians first were persecuted."[17] After this speech, and as his programs became more antisemitic, some radio stations, including those in New York and Chicago, began refusing to air his speeches without pre-approved scripts; in New York, his programs were cancelled by WINS and WMCA, leaving Coughlin to broadcasting on the Newark part-time station WHBI. This made Coughlin a hero in Nazi Germany, where papers ran headlines claiming "America Is Not Allowed to Hear the Truth". On December 18, 1938 two thousand of Coughlin's followers marched in New York protesting potential asylum law changes that would allow more Jews (including refugees from Hitler's persecution) into the US, chanting, "Send Jews back where they came from in leaky boats!" and "Wait until Hitler comes over here!" The protests continued for several months. Donald Warren, using information from the FBI and German government archives, has also argued that Coughlin received indirect funding from Nazi Germany during this period.[18]
After 1936, Coughlin began supporting an organization called the Christian Front, which claimed him as an inspiration. In January 1940, the Christian Front was shut down when the FBI discovered the group was arming itself and "planning to murder Jews, communists, and 'a dozen Congressmen'"[19] and eventually establish, in J. Edgar Hoover's words, "a dictatorship, similar to the Hitler dictatorship in Germany". Coughlin publicly stated, after the plot was discovered, that he still did not "disassociate himself from the movement", and though he was never linked directly to the plot, his reputation suffered a fatal decline.[20]
The man was one of the most dangerous people in America in the decade of the Thirties and early Forties.


If you go to the church he built - the Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, Michigan, you will find a very fancy decorative inlaid tile of a German swastiza placed on an interior church wall as the official symbol of Germany. Over the years many parishioners begged Coughlin to remove it and said it was spitting in the face of their loved ones who died in WW2 to fight fascism. Coughlin refused to remove it even though it had long ceased to the the official insignia of Germany. It is still there today. I know because I have looked at it with my own two eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Coughlin

Also check The Readers Companion to American History which has a good entry on Coughlin which seems to be the basis for much of the wikipedia entry.
Last edited by haymarket martyr; 08-16-2009 at 07:20 PM.







Post#193 at 08-16-2009 08:36 PM by K-I-A 67 [at joined Jan 2005 #posts 3,010]
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Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
1- Hoover did not cause the Depression - FDR did.
False, a stock market crash caused the Great Depression

Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
2- Hoover is the source of the New Deal - not FDR.
True, Hoover enacted the policey changes which opened the door for FDR's New Deal

Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
3- The New Deal did not work and if it did it was due to Hoover.


4 -Proof of the failure of FDR's New Deal (I know, its a contradiction but go with it) is the 1937 recession.

5- The only thing which ended the Depression was WW 2 and that had nothing to do with spending but the cycle simply came back around to where it would have been without the New Deal messing up our free market system.
The New Deal didn't bring us out of the Great Depression. World War II actually brought us out of the Great Depression. The Great Recession is not equal to the Great Depression. The whatever it is that we call the former WOT now a days is not equal to or greater than what we historically refer to as World War II.


Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
The leaders in this effort are the libertarian right.
These are the expressed opinions and position of a right libertarian.







Post#194 at 08-16-2009 08:37 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-False fear-mongering:
You lie.

Cigna "Death Panel" pulls the plug on 17 year old cancer patient because of costs.

F*ck for-profit healthcare!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#195 at 08-16-2009 08:40 PM by K-I-A 67 [at joined Jan 2005 #posts 3,010]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Just goes to show, you don't ever want to become a possession of the state.







Post#196 at 08-16-2009 08:50 PM by independent [at Jacksonville - still trying to decide if its Florida or Georgia here joined Apr 2008 #posts 1,286]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
Just goes to show, you don't ever want to become a possession of the state.
Except that uhhh.. Cigna isn't the government.

A politician kills your kin, they'll lose some votes. A corporation kills your kin, and they'll earn a higher profit next quarter. I don't think that's the right incentive system.
'82 iNTp
"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." -Jefferson







Post#197 at 08-16-2009 08:58 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
Just goes to show, you don't ever want to become a possession of the state.
I don't ever want to become a possession of any entity, private or public.

A word exists for that situation; it's known as

S-L-A-V-E-R-Y
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#198 at 08-16-2009 09:02 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by independent View Post
Except that uhhh.. Cigna isn't the government.

A politician kills your kin, they'll lose some votes. A corporation kills your kin, and they'll earn a higher profit next quarter. I don't think that's the right incentive system.
You got it! *Odin gives Independent a hug*
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#199 at 08-16-2009 09:04 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
Just goes to show, you don't ever want to become a possession of the state.
The government in a democracy is an agent of society, a democratic society can;t be enslaved by itself.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#200 at 08-16-2009 09:25 PM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
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Quote Originally Posted by Flyingeye76 View Post
Well the US already has national healthcare. I believe government employees, VISTA volunteers, congress, and even the president are recipients of a national single payer system. I find it ironic that the presidents and congressmen against national healthcare have their healthcare provided by the very system they're against.
I have always said, give me what my representative has. No it is a collective of private insurance companies that have been selected by the Federal Government to offer their workers. So no, it is not a national single payer system, the VA and Military are.
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