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Thread: It's time for national healthcare - Page 16







Post#376 at 10-01-2009 11:45 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Sez hoo???
Dick Cheney.

He should know

And if you don't believe him, he'll shoot you in the face.
Last edited by playwrite; 10-01-2009 at 11:49 AM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

ďItís not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed Ö so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Itís much more akin to printing money.Ē - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#377 at 10-01-2009 02:10 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mikebert View Post
Very interesting. So they also have a universal system. How is it funded?
Out of the income taxes, I presume. It's nothing specially itemized -- just part of the batch of stuff that the State does with the money it collects.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc Ítre dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant ŗ moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce Ítre dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

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is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#378 at 10-01-2009 04:10 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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radind w/a state twist

Cantwell is a name that has increasingly come up in the health care discussions. She's got an approach (soon to be an offered amendment) that should appeal to the states-rights group. One smart lady. She's somebody to watch (2016?)

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...mpromises.html

Tell me about your compromise proposal.

I think weíve hit the sweet spot. Everybody says they want to have private providers and weíre saying fine. Let the states negotiate on behalf of a population in your state to drive down your costs. Donít just give subsidies to insurance companies for expensive insurance. This takes about 75 percent of the uninsured and puts them in the program. If some Republican governor somewhere wants to spend more money, fine. But this is a way to drive down costs.

Whatís the exact population states can negotiate on behalf of?

People between 133 and 200 percent of poverty. We think that 75 percent of the uninsured population is under 200 percent of poverty.

Why only go up to 200 percent of poverty? A lot of the concern right now is for people between 200 percent and 400 percent of poverty because they donít have as much in the way of subsidies.

Because right now, thatís where 75 percent of the uninsured population lives. They need the health insurance. You create models within our system that are efficient. Iíd be willing to do more, but thatís a different question.

What about me? I make more than 200 percent of poverty. What if I want to join your plan?

Thatís for another day, Ezra. This is a big mountain to climb. Weíve got to get a foothold and this is the foothold.

How will the plan work?

The federal government would give money to the states. States would be able to negotiate at local rates. Itís not Medicaid. People didnít want it to be Medicaid in Washington, either. But the states can use their bargaining power on behalf of that population. We have found in the state of Washington that we have saved around 35 percent of what those same benefits would cost on the private market.

Would the states run the plans, too? Or are they just negotiating prices?

They would do the price negotiation. They would also have to offer two plans. There are four in our state, and people can choose between them.

What do insurers get for participating?

Itís a population of 100,000 people or 40,000 people of whatever a state puts together that is packaged. And when that many people are packaged up, people want to cover them.

Why have private insurers in here at all? Why not just do it like Medicaid, but call it something else?

Because you want to have competition to drive down the price. You want innovation. You have the ability to get people to agree that itís worth having a public plan. You could get private insurers to cover this population, but you couldnít without giving the population leverage in the marketplace. We have 20 years experience doing this in Washington, and weíve achieved these goals.

So the state would say how much it will pay for an MRI?

The state says I want a plan, and hereís what I want in my plan. I want to get this much coverage to these people. Who will provide it for me? I can deliver 50,000 people as customers, but you need to give me a discount. Whatís the discount going to be? If we pass this, it will be the first time weíve allowed states to attain leverage against the insurance industry by negotiating in bulk.

So the idea is, this population suddenly becomes a bloc.

Yes.

Can they opt out?

States can opt out.

But can individuals leave if they want?

They donít have to be part of this. They canít go get the tax credits outside of it because we want them in a bloc. But they can say no to the plan.
Thoughts?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

ďItís not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed Ö so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Itís much more akin to printing money.Ē - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#379 at 10-01-2009 04:51 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Cantwell is a name that has increasingly come up in the health care discussions. She's got an approach (soon to be an offered amendment) that should appeal to the states-rights group. One smart lady. She's somebody to watch (2016?)

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...mpromises.html



Thoughts?
Excruciating baby steps, it seems.







Post#380 at 10-01-2009 05:02 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
Excruciating baby steps, it seems.

Yes, but maybe the ends, with bonus, would justify the means.

Here is a piece that expresses concern for this approach because they believe that a public option has to be national in order for the pool to be big enough to compete with the big insurers -

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/30/12390/4639

However, in an update they link to another take and begin to see possibilities -

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/9/30/14191/7947

Could you imagine the Blue States coming together to provide a pool for a regional public option (e.g., "Federalist Option") that brings rates down by a third and medical cost down as well?!!! People migrating to these states for that reason. Businesses migrating to stay competitive.

Who would be left to turn out the lights in the remaining Red States?

Just desserts.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

ďItís not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed Ö so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Itís much more akin to printing money.Ē - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#381 at 10-01-2009 05:24 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Yeah, there seems to be some creative thinking out there, PW.







Post#382 at 10-01-2009 05:27 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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I'll be darned!

Cantwell amendment passes

Democratic Sen. Cantwell's alternative to a public option passed the Finance Committee 12-11 with Democratic Sen. Lincoln voting with Republicans against the measure.

Cantwell said the amendment "hits the sweet spot" between public and private insurance.

"It is a public plan, but negotiated with the private sector," she said.

The amendment gives states the power to negotiate down the price of insurance. If insurance companies agree to cover a chunk of the uninsured, states would help pay for the coverage. The states negotiate with insurers to set the cost and coverage of the program. The rates aren't tied to Medicare or Medicaid, but set at the state level, she said.

The basic health plan would cover people who are at or below 200 percent of the federal poverty line, which would include 75 percent of the nation's uninsured.

By Chris Frates 04:02 PM
politico
At a minimum, this provides a "public option" hook in the Senate bill that legitimizes it being in the combined Senate bill, allows for amendments to tinker and make it stronger (e.g., more Fed dollars, push for large Regional associations - e.g. Blue States) AND to more easily combine with the House in a conference bill.

Gad, it would be so incredible to ge real reform in the Blue States and leave the sheeple in the Red States in a state of shock and sh_t - maybe they'll finally wake up.

I like this Sen Cantwell. Is she an Xer?

Oh, and F'k Sen. Linclon - she doesn't have a chance at re-election so she's trying to set herself up on K Street. B word should be inserted here, but I will mind my manners.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

ďItís not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed Ö so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Itís much more akin to printing money.Ē - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#383 at 10-01-2009 05:33 PM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
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So Joe Wilson may have been right, jump the gun though

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...nt-healthcare#

So what is wrong with verification of identification.







Post#384 at 10-01-2009 05:39 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
At a minimum, this provides a "public option" hook in the Senate bill that legitimizes it being in the combined Senate bill, allows for amendments to tinker and make it stronger (e.g., more Fed dollars, push for large Regional associations - e.g. Blue States) AND to more easily combine with the House in a conference bill.

Gad, it would be so incredible to ge real reform in the Blue States and leave the sheeple in the Red States in a state of shock and sh_t - maybe they'll finally wake up.

I like this Sen Cantwell. Is she an Xer?

Oh, and F'k Sen. Linclon - she doesn't have a chance at re-election so she's trying to set herself up on K Street. B word should be inserted here, but I will mind my manners.
Actually, I'm no so sure this allows a state/inter-state to establish its own pulbic option, but I think some smart states will tie this into their Medicare programs from an efficency standpoint, and then t is off to the races! Let's see where this goes from here on the floor and in conference, i.e., if the Senate puts some money into this and some state flexibility.
I'm banking on the Repug's dimwittedness to not figure this out.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

ďItís not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed Ö so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Itís much more akin to printing money.Ē - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#385 at 10-01-2009 05:40 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
I like this Sen Cantwell. Is she an Xer?
Not quite. She was born in October 1958, though, so she's on the Joneser end of the Boom generation.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#386 at 10-01-2009 05:46 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by wtrg8 View Post
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...nt-healthcare#

So what is wrong with verification of identification.
Yea, man! Let's make this real simple and just use the same id verification that the H1N1 virus uses to discern them thar illegals!

That'll show 'em - them thar illegals can't pull that crap of getting thar kids healthy on 'r dimes. We're gonna need dem thar dimes to bury our own darn kids. Gawl darnit!

Idiots.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

ďItís not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed Ö so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Itís much more akin to printing money.Ē - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#387 at 10-01-2009 05:47 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by wtrg8 View Post
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...nt-healthcare#

So what is wrong with verification of identification.
Oh, for shame. Yes, let's make the emergency room an immigration checkpoint rather than a place to save lives.







Post#388 at 10-01-2009 05:56 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

ďItís not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed Ö so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Itís much more akin to printing money.Ē - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#389 at 10-01-2009 07:13 PM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
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Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
Oh, for shame. Yes, let's make the emergency room an immigration checkpoint rather than a place to save lives.
Cry me a river, Child and Playwrite, but don't you need to show your identification along with a health insurance card as well.
Last edited by wtrg8; 10-01-2009 at 07:17 PM.







Post#390 at 10-01-2009 08:13 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by wtrg8 View Post
Cry me a river, Child and Playwrite, but don't you need to show your identification along with a health insurance card as well.
No. I recommend that you read this article:

http://health.howstuffworks.com/emergency-room1.htm
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#391 at 10-01-2009 10:20 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Quote Originally Posted by wtrg8 View Post
don't you need to show your identification along with a health insurance card as well.
Back in May of 2001, I suffered cuts in an auto accident and had to recieve emergency room treatment. No one involved in my care was concerned at all with my ID, they only asked me about allergies and other medical related questions, until after I had recieved a tetnus shot and some perscription antibiotics. And this was here in the great welfare state of South Carolina! May Joe Wilson agonise over the fact that the medical professionals in this state put medicene ahead of bureaucracy.

The emergency room should only be concerned with the services that it is there to provide.
There is plenty of time for citizenship verification after someone is out of potential danger.
I will add that in cases where a contagious condition is involved, it is far more costly to have sick people exposing others because they are afraid to recieve care.
Last edited by herbal tee; 10-01-2009 at 10:30 PM.







Post#392 at 10-01-2009 10:41 PM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
Back in May of 2001, I suffered cuts in an auto accident and had to recieve emergency room treatment. No one involved in my care was concerned at all with my ID, they only asked me about allergies and other medical related questions, until after I had recieved a tetnus shot and some perscription antibiotics. And this was here in the great welfare state of South Carolina! May Joe Wilson agonise over the fact that the medical professionals in this state put medicene ahead of bureaucracy.

The emergency room should only be concerned with the services that it is there to provide.
There is plenty of time for citizenship verification after someone is out of potential danger.
I will add that in cases where a contagious condition is involved, it is far more costly to have sick people exposing others because they are afraid to recieve care.
Interesting, you would be seen right away and without id when you are in an auto accident. I showed up at an emergency room in GA with a dislocated shoulder and it didn't play out that way. 3 hours later I was seen.
Last edited by wtrg8; 10-01-2009 at 10:44 PM.







Post#393 at 10-01-2009 10:49 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Some thoughts on Carpers approach from Erza -

Tom Carper's proposal is more interesting. It's gone through a couple twists in the past 24 hours (including the addition, and then welcome removal, of a trigger), but in its current form, each state would have the option to:

1) Participate as grantees in the CO-OP program and apply for seed funding.

2) Open up that stateís employee benefits plan.

3) Create a state administered health insurance plan with the option of banding together with other states to create a regional insurance compact.

Each state would, in other words, be allowed to create a public option. And states could band together to give their public options more bargaining power and efficiencies of scale. This would do a couple of things. First, it would give residents access to a public competitor. Second, it would provide an acid test of whether a public competitor substantially changes an insurance market. Does it force private insurers to bring their prices down? Does it create more competition and transparency? Are consumers more satisfied? And if all that happens, will other states really resist adopting the public option?

The problem with it is that it is, at best, regional. It doesn't have the buying power of a national public option. But that's a question of votes. If Schumer's proposal doesn't have 60 votes, which is what he's currently saying, this might well be a better option than Snowe's trigger.
This may have had something to do with it -

Thursday, 01 October 2009
Supporters of a public health insurance option as part of health insurance reform will visit Senator Tom Carperís office on the Circle in Georgetown this afternoon between 4 and 4:30. Theyíre encouraged by Senator Carperís Senate Finance Committee vote for legislation that includes a public health insurance option and theyíll deliver 2500 letters signed by Delaware voters in support.
Netroots are not too happy about it since it is not "a robust public option" and feel it will be just a meaningless substitute to give cover to the "incompetent Dems."

I, on the other hand, see it as a sign that the tide has turned and its only going to get more positive from here. Another sign is that the Repugs appear to have been shut out of the process by their own idiocy - Harkin has said no Repubs will be in the negotiations where the two committees' bills will be negotiated and forged.

Still like the path of no Repugs on the Finance bill reported out. Followed by real filibuster that allows the Repugs to make fools of themselves - let it run for a couple weeks, no Senate break, beds brought to the floor, other big issue put on hold. Let it go for awhile and thenl Obama reads the 60th Dem holdout the riot act and breaks the filibuster for the up or down vote. Results in a fair PO in the Senate bill that gets strengthened in the conferencing with the House.

Now here is where it really gets totally bitchin. It comes back to the Senate for endorsement, AND the Repugs completely whimp out on another filibuster - completely demoralizing their base for the next two election cycles. Yea, baby!

One can hope.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

ďItís not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed Ö so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Itís much more akin to printing money.Ē - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#394 at 10-01-2009 11:02 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by wtrg8 View Post
Interesting, you would be seen right away and without id when you are in an auto accident. I showed up at an emergency room in GA with a dislocated shoulder and it didn't play out that way. 3 hours later I was seen.
That's normal. It's called triage. Those with life-threatening emergencies who will die if they don't get immediate care get seen first. A dislocated shoulder won't kill you and will wait until they've taken care of more urgent problems.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#395 at 10-01-2009 11:03 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Cool Speaking Southern

Quote Originally Posted by wtrg8 View Post
Interesting, you would be seen right away and without id when you are in an auto accident. I showed up at an emergency room in GA with a dislocated shoulder and it didn't play out that way. 3 hours later I was seen.
I'll tell you the truth neighbor.
Ya'll got 'lanta.
But we've got the south's first city, Charleston.
We've always wondered why ya can't catch up. :







Post#396 at 10-01-2009 11:03 PM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Playwrite - and anyone else inclined to use the term - I detest the term "Sheeple." No matter how many times one explains that they only mean a subclass of the irredeemably stubborn-and-stupid, it still indicates a raw contempt for those-not-like-us. In many cases, the non-intellectual working stiffs. Might I ask you politely to please cut it out?

Pat, crying Baa! Humbug!
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#397 at 10-01-2009 11:23 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by wtrg8 View Post
Interesting, you would be seen right away and without id when you are in an auto accident. I showed up at an emergency room in GA with a dislocated shoulder and it didn't play out that way. 3 hours later I was seen.
I showed up to an emergency room in PA after nearly severing my big toe. I was in infinite pain and bleeding very badly, but for two hours I waited my turn.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#398 at 10-02-2009 12:10 AM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
I'll tell you the truth neighbor.
Ya'll got 'lanta.
But we've got the south's first city, Charleston.
We've always wondered why ya can't catch up. :
Sorry never lived in Atlanta, I lived in the other dirty Sister of the South city.







Post#399 at 10-02-2009 12:11 AM by independent [at Jacksonville - still trying to decide if its Florida or Georgia here joined Apr 2008 #posts 1,286]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Gad, it would be so incredible to get real reform in the Blue States and leave the sheeple in the Red States in a state of shock and sh_t - maybe they'll finally wake up.
What's the minimum wage in most blue states? $9-$10? Don't you have to be under 200% to even be eligible for this state thing?

No one in the blue states is going to qualify unless they're already living off welfare & charity, or working less than a full time job. Its not a choice in the market, its a mark of poverty.
'82 iNTp
"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." -Jefferson







Post#400 at 10-02-2009 07:55 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
I showed up to an emergency room in PA after nearly severing my big toe. I was in infinite pain and bleeding very badly, but for two hours I waited my turn.

~Chas'88
OUCH!!!

How did it happen? Were they able to re-attach it, or did the doctor's have to amputate?

Not funny, not laughing... just morbid curiosity.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
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