An interesting point raised in the wake of this I'm seeing from the right-side of the blogosphere:

What does this imply in terms of how majority/minority politics work in future policy-making?

On the side of HCR you have a slight majority side that seems to treat this as a "medicine is good for you" approach, so that it is imperative that it is accepted whether someone wants it or not. One the other side, you have the vocal and increasingly belligerent minority who clearly refuses any part of this.

So there is, in a loose sense, a "we care and we don't care" answer from those who passed HCR, "we care" in a sense of their goals, "we don't care" in the sense of having that minority have a hand in the process (whether for better or worse).

Will this set a precedent for future legislation that encourages more boldness in policy-making in hopes of a pass, or will Congress still have an ear for the others?

Before those in support of the HCR bill start pillorying me for being unnecessarily contrarian and un-Millennial, let me just say that I am on your side . . . somewhere. I personally think experimentation with the system to find a better solution is a better choice to make than staying put with something that couldn't remain for much longer. How that is achieved I have no horse in it, I just trust that there are enough in Congress intelligent enough to devise a solution.

Originally Posted by Andy '85

Before those in support of the HCR bill start pillorying me for being unnecessarily contrarian and un-Millennial, let me just say that I am on your side . . . somewhere. I personally think experimentation with the system to find a better solution is a better choice to make than staying put with something that couldn't remain for much longer. How that is achieved I have no horse in it, I just trust that there are enough in Congress intelligent enough to devise a solution.

Well, one Millennial has already gotten his head pat by a Boomer on this board tonight. The reconciliation bill will need to be squash for me to believe in my head of the dream of GEHA coverage. But really the Single-Payer system is the Progressive dream for all of us.

Originally Posted by Rose1992

Ironically I'm reading about the New Deal right now for history class. In the time it took Obama to pass HCR, FDR had introduced government regulation to almost every economic system that needed reform. He also, until 1935, had Congress's full support, and a much more subdued opposition.
If this is the regeneracy, this is a much different 4T than last time.

Rose, see my blog, below, for yesterday. You're quite right--it's very different from the 1930s. The sense of emergency was so general, so total, that for at least one year FDR could do anything he wanted. He started with huge majorities, and they increased in 1934 again in 1936. Neither race, nor social issues, could be used against him. And he seized the moment, making it very clear (see three posts ago, I think) by 1934 that remaking America was his goal. This crisis is a lot more like the civil war--the division is largely regional, Obama's opposition hates him as much as Lincoln's did him, and the ruling party has little or no discipline or loyalty. We will not come out of it as strong as in 1945, but we can come out of it better off than we are now. And the next Prophets--your kids, perhaps?--will have real work to do, instead of just destroying their legacy like the Boomers.

Originally Posted by Rose1992

A couple of Millennials shot this very comical video at a Tea Party rally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VpOnOspBZo

Oh goodness, those people are NUTS!!!

This link is to the Rules Committee summary of the bill that just passed.


http://www.rules.house.gov/111_hr4872_secbysec.html

Originally Posted by General Mung Beans

Here's the one trillion dollar question: is this the Millennial Cycle's Smoot-Hawley Tariff or Social Security? Smoot-Hawley Tariff passed at the same point as in the current Crisis.

Since last summer, reduced prices have been rising. At some point that will become the bottom as opposed to a possible bottom. This will mark the vortex in 2009, making it economically analogous to 1932. The stock market also bottomed in 2009 as it did in 1932.

The 2008 election has the large vote and change in power that are hallmarks of critical elections like 1932. The passage of HCR last night makes 2010 qualitatively different from 1994 and so the Democratic victory in 2008 different from that in 1992. It is also different from the ones in 1976 and 1960 because there was no previous period of GOP control of either house of Congress at those points in time. You have to go back in 1932 to find a Democratic victory similar to 2008.

This means major hallmarks that occurred in 1932 in the last 4T have occurred in 2008-2009 for this 4T. Smoot-Hawley was passed two years before 1932, so HCR is not analogous to Smoot-Hawley in terms of timing.

Iunno, between plenty of my younger, jobless friends being able to keep health insurance for a little while longer through their parents and the massive student loan changes in the reconciliation bill, this Millie's walking on air today.

I just hope the Senate passes the reconciliation bill as is and gets it all done.

Romney sure is mad as hell...

Originally Posted by Xer H

Romney sure is mad as hell...

Ironic, considering that Massachusetts passed near-universal health care when Mitt was governor there....

Originally Posted by Mikebert

Since last summer, reduced prices have been rising. At some point that will become the bottom as opposed to a possible bottom. This will mark the vortex in 2009, making it economically analogous to 1932. The stock market also bottomed in 2009 as it did in 1932.

The 2008 election has the large vote and change in power that are hallmarks of critical elections like 1932. The passage of HCR last night makes 2010 qualitatively different from 1994 and so the Democratic victory in 2008 different from that in 1992. It is also different from the ones in 1976 and 1960 because there was no previous period of GOP control of either house of Congress at those points in time. You have to go back in 1932 to find a Democratic victory similar to 2008.

This means major hallmarks that occurred in 1932 in the last 4T have occurred in 2008-2009 for this 4T. Smoot-Hawley was passed two years before 1932, so HCR is not analogous to Smoot-Hawley in terms of timing.

Nice analysis. However, it is also still possible that the big government change is still ahead of us in the November elections. We still have to await events.

James50

Originally Posted by Rose1992

Ironically I'm reading about the New Deal right now for history class. In the time it took Obama to pass HCR, FDR had introduced government regulation to almost every economic system that needed reform. He also, until 1935, had Congress's full support, and a much more subdued opposition.
If this is the regeneracy, this is a much different 4T than last time.

Hoover gets a lot of crap, but if you look back on his writings and words, he considered himself a "centrist reformer" and he believed that the system could be saved with some marginal reforms and some government assistance of ailing industries. Sounds familiar, eh?

So we're still building momentum toward tariffs and trade wars, we're trying to approach social issues in terms of corporate profitability, and we've still got a huge wave of high value mortgage resets coming. Now we've also got all kinds of radicalized conservatives talking loudly about violence and rebellion, and every issue or legislative attempt just encourages them further past the edge of sanity.

It would be nice to fast-forward through the crisis, but count me in the skeptic's camp.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

Ironic, considering that Massachusetts passed near-universal health care when Mitt was governor there....

Not only that, but the MA plan is very similar to the just-passed bill.

Originally Posted by Xer H

Romney sure is mad as hell...

What a hypocrite. He's the one who pushed for the mandate BS in Mass.

Originally Posted by Odin

What a hypocrite. He's the one who pushed for the mandate BS in Mass.

He was for the original bill as passed. Not the monstrosity that it has become now.

Originally Posted by MillieJim

Iunno, between plenty of my younger, jobless friends being able to keep health insurance for a little while longer through their parents and the massive student loan changes in the reconciliation bill, this Millie's walking on air today.

Ditto. I have a pre existing condition and my COBRA runs out in June.

I just hope the Senate passes the reconciliation bill as is and gets it all done.

I do as well, or:

1. I'll have to nag my representatives about why they have coverage and I don't.
2. Nag about the fact that all 5 Oklahoma house reps voted no. In any event , even the lone Democratic rep voted no.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Ditto. I have a pre existing condition and my COBRA runs out in June.



I do as well, or:

1. I'll have to nag my representatives about why they have coverage and I don't.
2. Nag about the fact that all 5 Oklahoma house reps voted no. In any event , even the lone Democratic rep voted no.

Mine runs out in July and also have a pre-existing condition.

Called my HSP and they told me to continue on my existing coverage and converting into an individual plan; it will cost 800.00 per month.

Checking HIPAA policies right now in DC Area.

Sending the balance of my bill to Congressman Connolly.

I'm just a bill.

From Schoolhouse Rock.

Originally Posted by wtrg8

Mine runs out in July and also have a pre-existing condition.

Called my HSP and they told me to continue on my existing coverage and converting into an individual plan; it will cost 800.00 per month.

Checking HIPAA policies right now in DC Area.

Sending the balance of my bill to Congressman Connolly.

(The following is a paraphrase of Bill Frist that I heard today).

When you get down to it, this version of HCR is a coverage bill, not a reform bill. It is a fairness and distributive justice bill, but it does nothing to fundamentally change the system. We are going to be adding trillions to the same revenue and service buckets we have now. Costs will skyrocket. The day of financial reckoning not only for health care but our society as a whole has just moved closer.

(end of paraphrase)

I am happy for you and others this has helped (including two of my children), but there is more to come. It will probably not be pretty.

Most of the health care stocks were up today.

James50

Originally Posted by The Rani

My sister, who voted for Obama, is pissed. She now plans to start voting Republican.

And your plan is to...?

Originally Posted by The Rani

I might actually register to vote again by Nov.
Might.

Or you could... You know... Choose not to vote.

Originally Posted by James50

Nice analysis. However, it is also still possible that the big government change is still ahead of us in the November elections. We still have to await events.

Absolutely true. For the 2008 election to be a critical election (and so analogous to 1932) the Democrats must hold both houses of Congress after the fall election. Arthur Schlesinger Jr. (son of the guy who first identified the political cycle back in the 1920's) forecast that the 1992 election was the start of a liberal era. He was wrong as 1994 showed.

2008 and 1992 have certain similarities. The passage of HCR in 2010 as opposed to its failure in 1994 show that things may well be different this time. On the other hand, the economy was in full recovery mode in 1994, something that will probably not be the case in 2010.

From a cycle pov, 1992 was clearly too early for a 4T political shift, while 2008 is not. That is, the generational alignment is conducive for 2008 to be 1932-like while it was not in 1992.

So who would have expected that the person who pulled out all the stops, was ruthless, and willing to take whatever it takes to get HCR passed would be a Silent? Of course, I'm speaking of Nancy Pelosi.

Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

So who would have expected that the person who pulled out all the stops, was ruthless, and willing to take whatever it takes to get HCR passed would be a Silent? Of course, I'm speaking of Nancy Pelosi.

Any thoughts?

More ruthless? Maybe not. The other side was using threats and insults -- vote for this bill and your political career will be over. Nancy Pelosi failed to convince any Republican that it was wise to vote for the bill. OK, maybe that is ruthlessness in its own right.

What got me was that that John Boehner went hysterical and theatrical, but illogical. That's commonly an anti-feminist smear, but at that I have no cause to question the masculinity of John Boehner. Nancy Pelosi proved calm, rational, and studiously logical. At that point I knew that the bill would pass. I couldn't tell whether she was playing poker or chess -- but whatever game she was playing she played it well.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

So who would have expected that the person who pulled out all the stops, was ruthless, and willing to take whatever it takes to get HCR passed would be a Silent?
Of course, I'm speaking of Nancy Pelosi. Any thoughts?

More ruthless? Maybe not. The other side was using threats and insults...

Yep, when all is said and done, "generations" have nothing whatsoever to do with the BIG argument, even in these supposed non-partisan threads.

Moreover, when the subject of "generations" is discussed, generational bigotry rears it's abject ugly head - My generation: Good. Your generation: Bad.

No more interesting and thoughtful place on the internet was ever conceived for political discussion, than the 4T.com.

Yet, what an utterly worthless and outright disgustingly partisan forum the 4T.com has become.

Originally Posted by herbal tee

I'm just a bill.

From Schoolhouse Rock.

Heh.


Joneser looks askance at Mikebert



Rags uses uses Elliott Wave theory to buy/short stock. Said video states "buy and sell".