Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

The question is, what are we going to do about it then? How are we going to react to it? And, what are we going to do about them? In my opinion, this is the biggest punk move that I've ever seen.

I plan to vote every chance I get and strive to stay in good health. Maybe also read some more and listen to folks on this forum. I am not going to become violent.

If you ask me what I would do if I was dictator for a day - I doubt you will be happy with the answer. I think we should adopt a two tier system with a basic level of care for everyone paid through taxes where the doctors are government employees and the hospitals are government owned. I also think we should seek to graduate twice the doctors we do today and that medical school tuition should be free. The doctors would have to commit to a certain number of years in the public system. The market stranglehold that the medical profession has today is partly because they artificially restrict the number of medical schools.

Then I would allow a second tier that would be private for those who want or need more. This is basically the French system. They spend half of what we do on health and have the same outcomes. I have several French friends. They all seem to love it. I don't know anyone who loves our current system (ie the system before yesterday.) While there are many parts of French society I would choose to avoid, their health care system is not one of them.

James50

BTW - BR is many things, but an idiot is not one of them.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

Not only am I not an idiot, but unlike you, I even know what I'm talking about.

We'll talk some more after you sober up.

You know a lot about stuff people don't care about, aren't in the mood for, don't really want to read or hear about and you know a lot about what you want. Outside of that, you don't know a lot. I'm sure there is atleast one notable 4tr' who would agree with me. You can talk all day long, all I require is one piece that won't/don't work, understand it relationship or importance to the unit and call it a failure. I'm a mechanic who rose up and became a businessman. You do what? You sell stuff. I'm the businessman, who if you don't deliver on what you sell, is going to pay the price and then come after you with vengence.

Like I said, KIA, sober up first. I have no interest in arguing with a drunk.

Originally Posted by James50

I plan to vote every chance I get and strive to stay in good health. Maybe also read some more and listen to folks on this forum. I am not going to become violent.

If you ask me what I would do if I was dictator for a day - I doubt you will be happy with the answer. I think we should adopt a two tier system with a basic level of care for everyone paid through taxes where the doctors are government employees and the hospitals are government owned. I also think we should seek to graduate twice the doctors we do today and that medical school tuition should be free. The doctors would have to commit to a certain number of years in the public system. The market stranglehold that the medical profession has today is partly because they artificially restrict the number of medical schools.

Then I would allow a second tier that would be private for those who want or need more. This is basically the French system. They spend half of what we do on health and have the same outcomes. I have several French friends. They all seem to love it. I don't know anyone who loves our current system (ie the system before yesterday.) While there are many parts of French society I would choose to avoid, their health care system is not one of them.

James50

BTW - BR is many things, but an idiot is not one of them.

No direspect to you James. I was just curious to see what your answers would be.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

Like I said, KIA, sober up first. I have no interest in arguing with a drunk.

Do you see any slurs? I'm not drunk. If there is someone who needs to intellectually wake up and smell the coffee so to speak, it's you.

Originally Posted by James50

You cannot insure an additional 30 million people without increased costs.

Of course, but adding those people to the insurance rolls will also add revenues.

Gap in health care law's protection for children

By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR (AP) – 8 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Hours after President Barack Obama signed historic health care legislation, a potential problem emerged. Administration officials are now scrambling to fix a gap in highly touted benefits for children.

Obama made better coverage for children a centerpiece of his health care remake, but it turns out the letter of the law provided a less-than-complete guarantee that kids with health problems would not be shut out of coverage.

rest here:http://bit.ly/aCToxC

Sheesh.

James50

Originally Posted by Mikebert

Of course, but adding those people to the insurance rolls will also add revenues.

Depending on their ability to pay or receiving government subsidies to purchase Health Insurance. The American people will pay the difference.

I have been saying we would need to wait and see if the new regime would raise or lower the viability of the health care system. I forgot about Massachusetts. The following is part of the Wikipedia entry on that system. I suspect the effect of the new federal system will be similar. I am not predicting what the political fallout will be. My understanding is that most of the folks in MA like the system. (My bold emphasis added.)

From fall 2006, the number of uninsured Massachusetts residents dropped to 5.4%-5.7% in fall 2007, depending on the methodology used.[39] Approximately 3% of taxpayers were determined by the Commonwealth to have had access to affordable insurance but paid an income tax penalty instead. Approximately 2% were determined not to have had access to affordable insurance, and a small number opted for a religious exemption to the mandate.[40] As of June 30, 2008, the estimated number of uninsured had dropped to 2.6%.[40] Comparing the first half of 2007 to the first half of 2008, spending from the Health Safety Net Fund dropped 38% as more people became insured.[40] The Fund (which replaced the Uncompensated Care Pool or Free Care) pays for medically necessary health care for those who do not have access to health insurance, and the underinsured.[41]

In February 2008 the Boston Globe reported that Commonwealth Care covered 169,000 people and had a projected cost of $618 million for the fiscal year. By June 2011 enrollment is projected to grow to 342,000 people at an annual expense of $1.35 billion. The original projections were for the program to ultimately cover approximately 215,000 people at a cost of $725 million.[42] Enrollment in the Commonwealth Care Health Insurance Program reached approximately 170,000 by April 1 of 2008. Enrollment in the Commonwealth Choice Plans, offered through the Commonwealth Health Insurance Connector, was almost 18,000 by the same date. Enrollment in the Commonwealth's Medicaid program, MassHealth, was up by 50,000 by January 2008. Data from the Massachusetts Association of Health plans suggest that enrollment in employer-sponsored health insurance was up by 85,000, but the number of people with individual coverage increased by less than 10,000.[43]
In March 2008 the Boston Globe reported that some "safety-net" hospitals serving low-income individuals in urban areas were facing budget shortfalls due to the combination of reduced "free-care" payments from the state and low enrollment in Commonwealth Care. The reduced state payments anticipated that by reducing the number of uninsured people Commonwealth Care would reduce the amount of charity care provided by hospitals.[44] In a subsequent story that same month the Globe reported that Commonwealth Care faced a short-term funding gap of $100 million and the need to obtain a new three-year funding commitment from the federal government of $1.5 billion. The Globe reported that a number of alternatives were under consideration for raising additional funding, including a $1 per pack increase in the state's cigarette tax. Health care costs in the state were rising at an annual rate of 10 percent, and the state budget deficit was $1.3 billion.[45]

A paper published to be published in Entrepreneurship Theory and Practice[46] analyzes the impact of Massachusetts approach to health financing reform, insurance mandates, on the rate of new business starts in Massachusetts versus New Hampshire. Along with an earlier dissertation published in April of 2008, it finds that new business starts were reduced in Massachusetts by 16%, and that this reduction included displacement of new firm starts across the state line into New Hampshire. In addition, the study found some evidence that this effect did not vary based on the size of the firm, but may have had a more negative effect on new businesses owned by women. The study's author suggested that were this approach to become a model of national health finance reform, that it would have an especially profound impact on physically small states such as those in New England where jurisdictional arbitrage is potentially a practical consideration for entrepreneurs. The author posits several other basic problems with this approach to health fundings and several alternative methodologies which might be more fruitful. The study controls for macroeconomic impacts using a novel difference-in-difference method, whereby a subregion of the Boston MSA which straddles the border with New Hampshire is treated as a single economic geography. The model predicts the decision to locate, not the aggregate number of new firms, and thus, the relationship between the two state regions within the MSA. This approach removes the impact of macroeceonomic variables because all participants in that economy experience the same macroeconomimc fluctuations, interest rates, etc., and assumes the overall rate of new formation in the area will remain unaltered. The data for the study used new firm start data gathered from a business directory which is updated on a bi-weekly basis.

Massachusetts' problem of overcrowded waiting rooms and overworked primary-care physicians (who were already in short supply) has been exacerbated by the influx of patients now covered. One criticism of the program is that it has done nothing to realign incentives for MDs to provide primary care.[47][48]

As of September 2009, Massachusetts has the lowest number of non-insured residents at 4.1%.[citation needed] Some estimates prior to the imposition of the law found Massachusetts had on average a 6% uninsurance rate.[49] The Small Area Health Insurance Estimates (SAHIE) study conducted by the US Census Bureau in 2000 estimated Massachusetts rate at 9.4% and in 2006 at 9.6% in 2006.[50] The highest rates of health uninsurance in the country tend to be in the desert southwest states of New Mexico and Arizona which also have the highest rates of automotive uninsurance despite an auto insurance mandate.

Rest here: http://bit.ly/3tUql


James50

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

You are an idiot. You're not thinking about the internals (people who work). You work for insurance. If insurance can't pay you, what happens to you? Cry me a river Brian. Welfare will get you by until welfare runs out of money.

1. K-I-A, ad-homs really do detract from one's position. The construct <person x> is/are <insert derogatory adjective here> is , well for Jr. High level conversations.

2. Can you please get off the "liberal" kick. Both sides have pluses/minuses.

3. As such, hell, I'd love to hire a farm hand, but the red tape makes it not worth the effort. Filing unemployment tax forms, filing payroll tax forms, OSHA stuff is just to much to expand. IOW, I'll be the first to agree with you that reams of paperwork deter employing people. I'd be glad to hire if government would just fill all those f*king forms for me. I'm a farmer, not an accountant, tax expert, etc. I'm also not an insurance expert either.

4. As for the topic in the thread, big insurance has no use for small business. We just don't have the clout to get discounts. I prefer to either have a health coop instead of some CEO/MBA ridden insurance company making a mess of things.

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

You know a lot about stuff people don't care about, aren't in the mood for, don't really want to read or hear about and you know a lot about what you want. Outside of that, you don't know a lot. I'm sure there is atleast one notable 4tr' who would agree with me. You can talk all day long, all I require is one piece that won't/don't work, understand it relationship or importance to the unit and call it a failure. I'm a mechanic who rose up and became a businessman. You do what? You sell stuff. I'm the businessman, who if you don't deliver on what you sell, is going to pay the price and then come after you with vengence.

If you don't like or care about what Brian writes, why do you bother reading or responding to it?

Clearly you've found your talents in starting and running a business. That's great. Not everyone has that kind of skill. I'm fairly sure I would suck at it because I'm not made that way. But that's okay. I respect that others are good at it. My abilities lie elsewhere.

Being a businessman doesn't make you better or worse than anyone else here.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

If you don't like or care about what Brian writes, why do you bother reading or responding to it?

Clearly you've found your talents in starting and running a business. That's great. Not everyone has that kind of skill. I'm fairly sure I would suck at it because I'm not made that way. But that's okay. I respect that others are good at it. My abilities lie elsewhere.

Being a businessman doesn't make you better or worse than anyone else here.

The more I get to know Brian, by reading his writings, by learning Brian, by challenging Brian, the less and less I like or care about Brian. Being an insurance agent doesn't make Brian better than anyone else. As far as I'm concerned, Brian is just a salesman. Me, I'm just a businessman or a mechanic.

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

Being an insurance agent doesn't make Brian better than anyone else.

Never said it did. It does mean I know more about the insurance business than most people, though.

Originally Posted by wtrg8

Depending on their ability to pay or receiving government subsidies to purchase Health Insurance. The American people will pay the difference.

And the American people aren't doing this now?

1. Again, why the hell do we need "health insurance". We need health care.

2. Don't you think filing claim for simple things like prescriptions, a doctor's appointment are just lame?

3. Look at all of the paper shuffling that's going on now. I'd rather have something like Switzerland has. For the small stuff, pay out of pocket (with subsidies for the poor) and reserve "health insurance" like fire insurance for the big stuff, say like cancer/heart disease.

Originally Posted by James50

Gap in health care law's protection for children

By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR (AP) – 8 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Hours after President Barack Obama signed historic health care legislation, a potential problem emerged. Administration officials are now scrambling to fix a gap in highly touted benefits for children.

Obama made better coverage for children a centerpiece of his health care remake, but it turns out the letter of the law provided a less-than-complete guarantee that kids with health problems would not be shut out of coverage.

rest here:http://bit.ly/aCToxC

Sheesh.


James50

Being tweaked as we speak. We always knew this sucker was a rough draft.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Being tweaked as we speak. We always knew this sucker was a rough draft.

Speaker Pelosi dutifully informed us that her promised Obami "transparency" would only occur after the Big Government takeover of our nation's health care industry was voted on and passed, against the evil bi-partisan opposition.

So, yes, we always knew WE THE PEOPLE are suckers, in the mind of typical liberal Democrats. And, yes, now WE THE PEOPLE know we were suckers, too. Congrats for that enlightenment, Dems.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

James, I work in the insurance industry and am a licensed property and casualty broker-agent. I know how it operates. You cannot insure an additional 30 million people without increased costs, true, but you also cannot do so without increased revenue, and since most of the 30 million currently uninsured aren't seriously ill, the revenues will exceed the costs.

Yeah the "30 million currently uninsured" aren't really consuming much right now but give them health care and they will. You might want to add that to your calculations.

revenues will exceed the costs

I think I smell a salesman.
This reminds me all those times I've stepped into new home showing / real estate agent offices and they say, "yeah it's close to everything!"
//
*begin sarcasm* Hey I have an idea why don't we give amnesty to the 20 million illegal aliens here so we can increase the cash flow. As what Brian likes to say, "revenues will exceed the costs"!

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

You know a lot about stuff people don't care about, aren't in the mood for, don't really want to read or hear about and you know a lot about what you want. Outside of that, you don't know a lot. I'm sure there is atleast one notable 4tr' who would agree with me. You can talk all day long, all I require is one piece that won't/don't work, understand it relationship or importance to the unit and call it a failure. I'm a mechanic who rose up and became a businessman. You do what? You sell stuff. I'm the businessman, who if you don't deliver on what you sell, is going to pay the price and then come after you with vengence.

Brian Rush is in the insurance business even if he isn't in the health-insurance racket. As a salesman he knows the economics of insurance as you don't. I'm not going to say that you are a fool because you are in a different field, but I would defer to Brian's expertise on insurance and to yours on your specialty on mechanical work. Your involvement in insurance is as a customer at most. So if you and Brian were in the same town and I owned a business, then I might deal with you to repair my HVAC unit but I would rely upon Brian (if indirectly) to ensure my business in the case that my HVAC unit had a manufacturing fault that caused it to give off bad chemicals or start a fire.

You are a mechanic. I would not trust you for much insight on human nature or for political wisdom. People with strong knowledge of human nature do not ordinarily do mechanical work, and someone like Brian or me doesn't ordinarily develop such limited mechanical talent as we have.

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

You know a lot about stuff people don't care about, aren't in the mood for, don't really want to read or hear about and you know a lot about what you want. Outside of that, you don't know a lot. I'm sure there is atleast one notable 4tr' who would agree with me. You can talk all day long, all I require is one piece that won't/don't work, understand it relationship or importance to the unit and call it a failure. I'm a mechanic who rose up and became a businessman. You do what? You sell stuff. I'm the businessman, who if you don't deliver on what you sell, is going to pay the price and then come after you with vengence.

Calm down KIA. Brian is trying to rattle your cage. Let me tell you how he operates.
The fundamental basis of Brian Rush's position is intellectual dishonesty.

*everybody together now* It's not what they tell you --> it's what they DON'T tell you.

My favorite example is those public transit / Light rail advocates that like to say: "a single light rail line has the capacity of 8 freeway lanes" This is technically true but....

intellectual dishonesty 1)
Capacity and ridership are two completely different things. There is no light rail system anywhere in the USA where a single line transports the passenger equivalent of 8 freeway lanes.

intellectual dishonesty 2)
To accomplish such a goal would require upgrading train control systems up to spec and also creating a grade separated system aka cost much more $$$

intellectual dishonesty 3)
To accomplish such a goal you'd have to run the trains every 2 minutes and all trains must be packed to crushload capacity and how realistic is this?...NOT

*getting back to health care*
I'm not going to attempt listing all the intellectual dishonesty......I'd have to sit here all day.

My opinion on this national health care is as follows:

Personally I'd rather have my tax dollars to help pay for insurance for the uninsured, than see my premiums/other health costs rise just because people who can't or won't get insurance get sick, and end up defaulting on their bills passing those costs to the rest of us.

At least now its a more honest system, I think.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Brian Rush is in the insurance business even if he isn't in the health-insurance racket. As a salesman he knows the economics of insurance as you don't. I'm not going to say that you are a fool because you are in a different field, but I would defer to Brian's expertise on insurance and to yours on your specialty on mechanical work. Your involvement in insurance is as a customer at most. So if you and Brian were in the same town and I owned a business, then I might deal with you to repair my HVAC unit but I would rely upon Brian (if indirectly) to ensure my business in the case that my HVAC unit had a manufacturing fault that caused it to give off bad chemicals or start a fire.

You are a mechanic. I would not trust you for much insight on human nature or for political wisdom. People with strong knowledge of human nature do not ordinarily do mechanical work, and someone like Brian or me doesn't ordinarily develop such limited mechanical talent as we have.

Do I detect a certain elitism here?

Originally Posted by '58 Flat

Do I detect a certain elitism here?

Yeah, I thought that was a little uncalled for. My dad is a very practical man with no college education, but that does not mean he is ignorant, he's up to his armpits in popular science magazines for Christ's sake.

I got the following from a Byron York piece. I thought it was a good statement of Republican strategy.

Republicans have been portrayed as erupting in one long, irrational cry of anger about losing the vote. But they're watching the polls closely and believe they will benefit by continuing to oppose the bill as it slowly becomes policy. "The American people are absolutely livid about the overreach of the federal government," says Rep. Tom Price, head of the House Republican Study Committee. In a conversation late Thursday, Price outlined a four-part strategy for Republicans.

First, the GOP will "identify as often as possible the detrimental and remarkably consequential effects of this bill on communities." He pointed to news from the heavy-equipment makers Caterpillar and John Deere that the new law will cost them $100 million and $150 million, respectively, in the coming year. You'll be hearing a lot about that from Republicans in the days to come.

The second part of Price's strategy is for Republicans to support the various constitutional challenges to the law.

Third, Price said, "We have to repeal the egregious aspects of this bill and replace them with patient-centered solutions." Note the phrase "egregious aspects." Republicans will be arguing not to throw the entire bill out, but the elements that most involve federal government coercion: the individual mandate, government definition of "acceptable" insurance plans, etc.

The fourth part of the GOP plan is pretty simple: Win in November.

rest here: http://bit.ly/9reGke

I heard the Florida AG (Bill McCollum) on Squawk Box this morning talking about constitutional challenges to to the recent law. It made more sense than I thought it would.

It would be interesting if the denouement of this whole thing would be SCOTUS declaring the individual mandate unconstitutional. While this would be bad to the overall economics of the law, I doubt it would be fatal. It would be SCOTUS fulfilling its now oldest role in our democracy - keeping us from careening off into a ditch of civil disorder by resolving unresolvable issues.

BTW - You can find polls to say most anything if you look hard enough. Still, my reading is that the polls have hardly budged. BR has made the point that being against the law from the left is not the same as being for repeal so its hard to draw firm conclusions. But I doubt the dems in swing districts are feeling very comfortable.

James50

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Brian Rush is in the insurance business even if he isn't in the health-insurance racket. As a salesman he knows the economics of insurance as you don't. I'm not going to say that you are a fool because you are in a different field, but I would defer to Brian's expertise on insurance and to yours on your specialty on mechanical work. Your involvement in insurance is as a customer at most. So if you and Brian were in the same town and I owned a business, then I might deal with you to repair my HVAC unit but I would rely upon Brian (if indirectly) to ensure my business in the case that my HVAC unit had a manufacturing fault that caused it to give off bad chemicals or start a fire.

You are a mechanic. I would not trust you for much insight on human nature or for political wisdom. People with strong knowledge of human nature do not ordinarily do mechanical work, and someone like Brian or me doesn't ordinarily develop such limited mechanical talent as we have.

True, I'm just a lowly mechanic and/or businessman. You should completely ignore the fact that both of these careers have brought me into contact with thousands of people over the coarse of many years. The way I see it, Brian and yourself are pretty locked on a trail and will follow that trail to its end. Me, I'm much smarter than you two, I will stay on my trail and watch you to go down the trail you're on and watch as it meets its end.

Originally Posted by Odin

Yeah, I thought that was a little uncalled for. My dad is a very practical man with no college education, but that does not mean he is ignorant, he's up to his armpits in popular science magazines for Christ's sake.

I agree with Anthony and Taylor.