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Thread: It's time for national healthcare - Page 105







Post#2601 at 09-19-2011 10:59 AM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Dude, please, it's not all about YOU. My first comment on this topic was on the election thread in response to Amy.
And wow, if you want to be rude, why not just post what you want to say instead of sending me ugly PMs? Afraid of spoiling your reputation?
Why do we need to know if he's sending you PMs, "ugly" or not?

See, this is the kind of stuff that doesn't make you look trustworthy, and pretty much cancels out the "it's not all about you" claim.







Post#2602 at 09-19-2011 11:06 AM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Here we go again with your personal attacks. Big surprise.
As I see it, your behavior is disrupting the forum.







Post#2603 at 09-19-2011 11:14 AM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Oh brother.
Got anything to say about Ron Paul?
I agree with Ron Paul on ending the war on drugs and getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Like him I also oppose the draft, national IDs, and capital punishment.

That's about it.







Post#2604 at 09-19-2011 12:04 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
I agree with Ron Paul on ending the war on drugs and getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Like him I also oppose the draft, national IDs, and capital punishment.

That's about it.
I agree on Iraq & Afghanistan and ending the war on drugs, but support capital punishment and the draft. Also, I have no problem with national ID's.







Post#2605 at 09-19-2011 12:29 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Anyone who thinks that charity alone can end poverty is either a naive person with no understanding of the utter scale of the problem or is a selfish liar who really doesn't care about the poor...
Anyone who thinks the government can end poverty is a naive person with no understanding of economics or is an envious liar who doesn't real care about the poor.

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
The rest of your post (such as "the number of unwanted children has skyrocketed since the creation of the modern welfare system") is simply Right-Wing boilerplate nonsense that has no basis in fact and does not deserve a refutation.
-Again, compare before and after.







Post#2606 at 09-19-2011 12:35 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by summer in the fall View Post
Look, you're just gonna have to find some other way to support your thesis other than twisting liberal, religious logic against them. Because protecting an extension of a person's body against the will of the brain attached to it is an inversion of the law. And it is not the same as people who benefit from the society they live in getting together to figure out how to solve the problems therein.
Calm down.

Your argument isn't valid to those who think that there are two persons in there, not one, as some of those with a religious perspective do.

The problem is using religion, as Kiff did, to buttress an argument (government welfare), but getting upset if people use it for another (abortion). I don't agree with either one. Kiff, you never explained where Jesus said that it's the governments job to take care of the poor, but you would probably know the Bible a lot better than me.







Post#2607 at 09-19-2011 12:36 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Wallace 88 View Post
Anyone who thinks the government can end poverty is a naive person with no understanding of economics or is an envious liar who doesn't real care about the poor.



-Again, compare before and after.
But the fact of the matter is that the federal govt could provide jobs to anyone willing and able to work. That would end most poverty in the nation both by direct employment and by the secondary impact of creating additional aggregate demand to get the economy humming along.

It could be done in a relatively short amount of time. And for the foreseeable future, it could be done without any cost to our society - no increase in inflation and no increase in taxes.

The only thing holding us back is ignorance of how a fiat currency system actually works.

So no, the two statements - yours and Odin's - are not equivalent.
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Post#2608 at 09-19-2011 12:37 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Wallace, I am rather depressed to hear some one ranting about a "modern welfare system" that went out of existence when you were 8 years old. Apparently conservatives need that system more than liberals do, to complain about it.
It was modified to a 5 year maximinum. But most of the other stuff is still in place. I think The Wonkette nows something about the limits on food stamps.

And you can leave out the "conservative" and "liberal" crap, dude.

Since your age makes you such an expert, why don't you explain what Moynihan predicted LBJ's welfare programs would lead to?







Post#2609 at 09-19-2011 12:37 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by annla899 View Post
Out of wedlock doesn't necessarily mean unwanted.
Sure. They're all Bohemians.







Post#2610 at 09-19-2011 12:40 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
Why do we need to know if he's sending you PMs, "ugly" or not?

See, this is the kind of stuff that doesn't make you look trustworthy, and pretty much cancels out the "it's not all about you" claim.
If they're ugly, they don't deserve the protection of anonymity. Let's see them. Put up or shut up, Rani.







Post#2611 at 09-19-2011 12:41 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by Aldaris View Post
Kind of hard to do that when he's in a coma.
Before the accident.







Post#2612 at 09-19-2011 12:43 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
I don't like it, and please don't use it.
Fine, Kiff.

Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
Correlation does not necessarily mean causality.
Common sense says it does in this case. It's not like it wasn't predictable.







Post#2613 at 09-19-2011 12:44 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Basically I agree. It's a worldwide phenomenon, in case you haven't noticed.
So is the "safety" net. Some safety.







Post#2614 at 09-19-2011 12:46 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
He then said, "I practiced medicine before we had Medicaid"--which of course he would abolish "and the churches took care of them, we never turned anyone away." I could have done a better job paraphrasing but I got the gist correctly. Yes, he would advise people to buy insurance, but people who don't won't have to worry. And having the government provide and finance insurance, that's obviously the worst possibility of all. . .
What you seem to ignore is that Paul blew the myth of We're all gonna die to smithereens. That's not what happend.







Post#2615 at 09-19-2011 12:49 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
But the fact of the matter is that the federal govt could provide jobs to anyone willing and able to work. That would end most poverty in the nation both by direct employment and by the secondary impact of creating additional aggregate demand to get the economy humming along.

It could be done in a relatively short amount of time. And for the foreseeable future, it could be done without any cost to our society - no increase in inflation and no increase in taxes.

The only thing holding us back is ignorance of how a fiat currency system actually works.

So no, the two statements - yours and Odin's - are not equivalent.
I'll let Justin and JDG deal with your magic pony MMT perpetual motion machine.







Post#2616 at 09-19-2011 12:50 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Yeah, that's what *I* said.


Check your own PMs.
There's nothing in my PM box. Just post them here.

I just got it. Pretty psycho.
Last edited by Wallace 88; 09-19-2011 at 12:57 PM.







Post#2617 at 09-19-2011 12:55 PM by LateBoomer [at joined Sep 2011 #posts 1,007]
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OMG, this thread is like a warzone. *munches popcorn* FWIW, Ron Paul is an anarchist (except on abortion). Funny how much "anarchist" looks like "Antichrist."
Last edited by LateBoomer; 09-19-2011 at 01:00 PM.
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Post#2618 at 09-19-2011 12:57 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by Wallace 88 View Post
Kiff, you never explained where Jesus said that it's the governments job to take care of the poor, but you would probably know the Bible a lot better than me.
Well, I could probably come up with several passages, not only from the NT, but from the OT prophets.

However, that's not really the point. The government is (or should be, ideally) an extension of the people's will. We all take care of the poor through the taxes we pay into Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.







Post#2619 at 09-19-2011 12:59 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by Wallace 88 View Post
Sure. They're all Bohemians.
Well, that's cryptic.







Post#2620 at 09-19-2011 01:00 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by Wallace 88 View Post
Fine, Kiff.
Thank you.

Common sense says it does in this case. It's not like it wasn't predictable.
That's not good enough for me. I need some stronger evidence.







Post#2621 at 09-19-2011 01:02 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by LateBoomer View Post
OMG, this thread is like a warzone. *munches popcorn* FWIW, Ron Paul is an anarchist (except on abortion). Funny how much "anarchist" looks like "Antichrist."
Oh, dear. We have a poster with the moniker "antichrist" here -- who's actually a pretty reasonable fellow.







Post#2622 at 09-19-2011 01:03 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by Wallace 88 View Post
There's nothing in my PM box. Just post them here.

I just got it. Pretty psycho.
It's pretty tacky to forward someone's PMs to another person without the original person's foreknowledge or consent.

Just saying.
Last edited by Child of Socrates; 09-19-2011 at 01:06 PM.







Post#2623 at 09-19-2011 01:04 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Hee hee ...

Wallace, you should have the message now.
I'll let Kaiser decide whether or not he wants to make it public. Hopefully he'll simply find someone else to pick on.

EDIT:
I should have said hopefully he'll simply stop picking on people, whether it's me or anyone else.
I got it. See my edit.

You're being way too nice. Here:

"Have you ever seen Analyze This? There was a funny scene early on when Billy Crystal, a therapist, loses it with a patient, and then you realize that he's just having a fantasy of what he would like to say. Perhaps we get the fallout your patients are spared."







Post#2624 at 09-19-2011 01:07 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
That's not good enough for me. I need some stronger evidence.
Low rates of out of wedlock births for ages. Then, women get compensated for having out of wedlock births. Then the rate takes off. Common sense tells you that's not a coincidence.

But I'll let Kaiser, who seems to think he's the expert on such things, explain how Senator Moynihan looked at the history of New York to predict it.

Right after he apoplogizes to Rani.







Post#2625 at 09-19-2011 01:09 PM by Wallace 88 [at joined Dec 2010 #posts 1,232]
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Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
Well, that's cryptic.
Right. The skyrocketting out of wedlock birtrate is due to people who just happened to decide that marriage is passe.
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