Originally Posted by [QUOTE

Eric the Green;468317]There are no more moderate Republicans, silly. No Republican today would propose a national health insurance plan.

Yes, the exact same plan that you now say is nothing but an insurance giveaway and achieves nothing.

This is why it's a corporate idea that favors the corporations, silly.

Obama is a pretty-admirable figure, for a US president. In this age of the corporate military-industrial complex, and a deceived and tribal public, he's about the best we can expect. It is right to criticize and pressure him. But there's little he can do, besides reduce his war-making. He just has no power or control over the congress. No president today could do any better; even Bernie Sanders; even LBJ. Unless the people end gerrymandering this year in their states, as we did in CA, the Republicans will keep congress and nothing of any kind will be achieved this decade, no matter who is president. That's just the plain reality. But I don't see a strong grassroots effort to end gerrymandering, do you? So there's no grounds of any kind for complaint, if we are not going to do anything.

There is no complaint from the faithful but there is from some who see through this mirage.

And here's some examples of this admirable Obama.



Let's just start with war.

War

“Obama has now unilaterally attacked more countries than Bush, notably bombing inside Pakistan, Yemen and now Libya without Congressional approval.”

“Look at the record, says Chomsky: Obama is in many cases worse than George Bush and Tony Blair — on Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Egypt — and would be indicted for war crimes if the Nuremburg principles were applied.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8mA4HYTO790

Announced “Withdrawal Plan” that leaves more troops in Afghanistan than when he started http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...n-afghanistan/

Authorized military intervention in Libya without the approval of Congress: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jun/16/obama-the-new-caesar/

This was after stating as a presidential candidate, “President Does Not Have Power Under Constitution to Unilaterally Authorize a Military Attack’ http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-president-does-not-have-power-under-constitution-unilaterally-authorize-military

“Announced a $60 billion sale of arms to the Saudi Arabian dictatorship, the largest arms deal in history” http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20016181-503543.html

“Sold arms to abusive Bahrain regime and used legal loophole to avoid telling Congress about it” http://www.salon.com/2012/01/30/obama_quietly_sells_arms_to_human_rights_abuser_ba hrain/singleton/

“Granted a waiver allowing four countries to continue receiving US military aid even though they use child soldiers” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/27/AR2010102707157.html

Originally Posted by Deb C

This is why it's a corporate idea that favors the corporations, silly.

Health care reform is a Democratic idea now, even though some Republicans once favored it too. The problem is that Republicans control congress and peoples' votes, so a true liberal proposal can't get through. If we blame Obama, we don't get at the cause of why we don't have an acceptable health care reform. It's that simple. Do something about congress, or you might as well forget it and accept what you get.

There is no complaint from the faithful but there is from some who see through this mirage.

Most complaints against Obama come from the right-wing, not the left; you haven't noticed? These 40+ % of the people are not "the faithful."

But Obama is more responsible for foreign policy and war. Yet no president since Hoover has been able to resist using these toys he has been given by congress. And even the isolationism of the 1920s has legions of detractors because of its eventual effects.

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

Ah, but there are still moderate right-wingers: they just call themselves Democrats now and pretend they're on the left.

I stand corrected

I just call them DINOs, if you have noticed.

Whew, this could get long.

More on the admirable Obama in regards to war and militarism.


“Obama, Iran and preventive war,” Glenn Greenwald, salon.com, March 5, 2012 http://www.salon.com/2012/03/05/obama_iran_and_preventive_war/singleton/


“Under Obama, an emerging global apparatus for drone killing,” Greg Miller, Washington Post, December 27, 2011 http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/under-obama-an-emerging-global-apparatus-for-drone-killing/2011/12/13/gIQANPdILP_story.htmlEx-CIA

Official Slams Obama’s ‘Indiscriminate’ Use of Drones http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/06/06-2

Could Obama Be Impeached for Waging War in Libya Without Approval of Congress? http://www.democracynow.org/2011/6/20/glenn_greenwald_could_obama_be_impeached

US more unpopular in the Arab world than under Bush: A new poll confirms prior ones: anti-American sentiment is now at dangerously – even unprecedentedly – high levels http://www.salon.com/2011/07/13/arabs/singleton/

Air strikes in Yemen kill 45 suspected Qaeda militants http://news.yahoo.com/yemen-air-raids-kill-10-suspected-qaeda-militants-063148843.html

“Ordered a cruise missile and cluster bomb attack in Yemen that killed women and children, suppressed the civilian casualties, and then imprisoned a journalist who revealed the truth” http://www.salon.com/2012/03/14/obamas_personal_role_in_a_journalists_imprisonment/singleton/

Broke promise to reject the Military Commissions Act: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/178/develop-an-alternative-to-president-bushs-militar/

“Continuing policy of maintaining thousands of troops at over a thousand military bases around the world” http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MA12Df01.html

Obama has opened three new military bases in Honduras http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/world/americas/us-turns-its-focus-on-drug-smuggling-in-honduras.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1

2,500 US Marines to be stationed in Australia http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57325630/obama-u.s-to-expand-military-in-australia/?tag=stackObama’s

New War in Uganda http://spectator.org/archives/2011/10/31/obamas-new-war-in-uganda

Obama says 100 combat-equipped troops will help in hunt for Lord’s Resistance Army’s wanted leader Joseph Kony. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa...712102972.html

As troops pull out of Iraq, Obama plans more combat forces elsewhere in the Middle East http://www.salon.com/2011/10/31/what...ire/singleton/

A look at US Presence in Iraq After (Some) Troops Leave http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/a-look-at-us-presence-in-iraq-after-troops-leave/

Obama Quietly Renews U.S. Embargo on Cuba http://news.yahoo.com/obama-quietly-...190536530.html

US sold bunker-busting bombs to Israel: report http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...9e5edb171b2.e1

US Resumes Arms Sales to Bahrain. Less than three months after including Bahrain on a list of human rights offenders requiring the United Nations’ attention, the Obama administration seems to have changed its mind http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011...es-weapon-sale

Obama cozies up to Central Asian dictator: The exigencies of the Afghan war lead the administration to ask for military aid to Uzbekistan http://www.salon.com/2011/09/17/uzbekistan_afghistan/

New American Ally in Somalia: ‘Butcher’ Warlord: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/09/new-american-ally-in-somalia-butcher-warlord/

(Also check out Jeremy Scahill’s extensive piece on U.S. history in Somalia): http://www.thenation.com/article/163210/blowback-somalia

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I stand corrected

I just call them DINOs, if you have noticed.

So.. Obama is a DINO?

Obama said: "The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."

Reagan pushed this country far to the right, and Bush pushed it even further. Who is pushing back?

Nobody.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Most complaints against Obama come from the right-wing, not the left; you haven't noticed? These 40+ % of the people are not "the faithful."

.

This is why Obama is so effective. The Left has shown itself, for the most part, as dedicated to the Democratic party, not to peace and justice for all. As I've indicated before, had Bush done all of the things Obama has, the Left would be protesting big time. But, sigh, I guess we will have to wait for another Republican before the Left gets back on the peace train.

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

So.. Obama is a DINO?

Obama said: "The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."

Reagan pushed this country far to the right, and Bush pushed it even further. Who is pushing back?

Nobody.

Yep, this is the sad and dangerous truth.

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

So.. Obama is a DINO?

Obama said: "The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."

Reagan pushed this country far to the right, and Bush pushed it even further. Who is pushing back?

Nobody.

But there are good Democrats who propose and vote for sensible policies, and they are defeated by GOPFERS and DINOs. As for foreign policy, I think some people are pushing Obama now. That's why he is having to start to come clean about his actions. The drone and bombing actions, among others, are counter-productive and unjust killings. He has blood on his hands. But despite how leftists or libertarians can frame his actions, I'd take them over Bush's any day. Libya showed a good approach overall, and the other wars are being wound down, not started. If anything, he is too afraid to support the rebels in Syria with arms, in my opinion.

The only way to effectively "push back" is to get the Republicans out of congress, and then pressure the Democrats and others to do the right thing. It IS up to us. Just being sad is not effective.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

But there are good Democrats who propose and vote for sensible policies, and they are defeated by GOPFERS and DINOs. As for foreign policy, I think some people are pushing Obama now. That's why he is having to start to come clean about his actions. The drone and bombing actions, among others, are counter-productive and unjust killings. He has blood on his hands. But despite how leftists or libertarians can frame his actions, I'd take them over Bush's any day. Libya showed a good approach overall, and the other wars are being wound down, not started. If anything, he is too afraid to support the rebels in Syria with arms, in my opinion.
.

There are none so blind than those who *choose* not to see. Obama is Bush, just in democratic clothing.

More for you to turn a blind eye to.

Class Warfare

Growth of Income Inequality Is Worse Under Obama than Bush by Matt Stoller, fellow at the Roosevelt Institute. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/04/growth-of-income-inequality-is-worse-under-obama-than-bush.html

$16 Trillion in Secret Bailouts

First Federal Reserve Audit Reveals Trillions in Secret Bailouts https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/08/28-3

Obama’s Wall Street cabinet http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13208

Why Obama’s JOBS Act Couldn’t Suck Worse http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/04/09-13


Obama Signs “Fraud-Friendly” JOBS Act into LawEconomist: Bill will bring fraud, destroy jobs http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/04/05-8

Obama’s Creepy Executive Order: Permanent War Economy http://www.progressive.org/permanent_war_economy.html

New Obama Foreclosure Plan Helps Banks At Taxpayers’ Expense http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...950,b=facebook

Former JPMorgan Lobbyist Manages the Banking Committee Expected to Investigate JPMorgan’s Trading Loss http://truth-out.org/news/item/9297-...s-trading-loss

Then there's those pesky little facts about our civil liberties. Obama has expanded many programs that Bush started.

“Continued and expanded Bush’s police state” http://www.salon.com/2012/03/05/the_cost_of_americas_police_state/singleton/

Civil Liberties
“Reporters Without Borders has released its annual World Press Freedom Index and the United States fell 27 points to No. 47 on the list. Why? “more than 25 [reporters] were subjected to arrests and beatings at the hands of police” during Occupy movement protests.” https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/01/25-6

“Signed Trespass Bill, making it a federal offense to be “disruptive” at political events”
Obama signs anti-protest Trespass Bill http://rt.com/usa/news/trespass-bill-obama-secret-227/

How Big a Deal is H.R. 347, That “Criminalizing Protest” Bill? http://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/how-big-deal-hr-347-criminalizing-protest-bill

Homeland Security Communicated with Local Officials About Occupy http://news.yahoo.com/homeland-secur...203232737.html

Why Obama’s ‘targeted killing’ is worse than Bush’s torture: Both are legally prohibited but speciously justified by the White House. The difference? Obama’s policy kills innocent bystanders http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...e-bush-torture

Attorney General Holder defends execution without charges,” Glenn Greenwald, salon.com, March 6, 2012 http://www.salon.com/2012/03/06/atto...ges/singleton/

“San Francisco attorney Jon Eisenberg thinks he’s learned a thing or two about Barack Obama over the past 15 months. Eisenberg, who won a landmark decision against the government in Northern California’s U.S. District Court Wednesday on a wiretapping case, says that when it comes to violating civil liberties in the name of national security, the present occupant of the White House is just as bad as — or “even worse” than — his predecessor.” http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/04/obama_wiretap_ruling.php

Three myths about the detention bill: The language of the bill President Obama will sign is crystal clear on most key issues — and it is repugnant http://www.salon.com/2011/12/16/thre...ill/singleton/

“Claims ACTA could be ratified without Congressional approval and that it would override US law” : http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...bout-tpp.shtml

“Authorized the assassination of US citizens abroad, an unprecedented declaration of executive power” http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/wo...7yemen.html?hp

Pentagon Says U.S. Citizens With Terrorism Ties Can Be Targeted in Strikes atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/pentagon-says-u-s-citizens-with-terrorism-ties-can-be-targeted-in-strikes/

The killing of Awlaki’s 16-year-old son: Extreme secrecy, as usual, shrouds this act, but it underscores how often the U.S. uses violence around the world http://www.salon.com/2011/10/20/the_..._year_old_son/

Holder: U.S. can lawfully target American citizens www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/holder-us-can-lawfully-target-american-citizens/2012/03/05/gIQANknFtR_story.html

US requests for secret spying warrants rose to nearly 2K in 2011, and not a single one was rejected http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/us-requests-for-secret-spying.html

“Defended the use of warrantless wiretapping”

Obama Channels Cheney: Obama adopts Bush view on the powers of the presidency. http://boingboing.net/2012/05/03/us-requests-for-secret-spying.html

DOJ Urges Supreme Court to Halt Challenge to Warrantless Eavesdropping: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/02/scotus-fisa-amendments/

Officials Push to Bolster Law on Wiretapping: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/us/19wiretap.html?_r=1

“Refused to declassify a secret memo regarding the president’s power for warrantless spying” http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/08/obama-doj-john-yoo-memos-on-spying-must-stay-secret/244312/

“Defended the use of warrantless GPS vehicle tracking, which was ruled unconstitutional”


NYPD Surveillance: White House Helped Pay For Surveillance Of Muslim Neighborhoods http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/27/nypd-muslim-surveillance_n_1303400.html
Unaccountable, unjustifiable (foreign) drug war spending http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/09/world/la-fg-narco-contract-20110609

“Supports mandatory DNA testing of those arrested for crimes, regardless of whether they have been convicted” http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34097.html

Obama Eyeing Internet ID for Americans http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20027837-501465.html

From Bush to Obama, the snooping goes on: The Patriot Act’s section 215 – just renewed by Congress – permits almost unlimited powers of surveillance of US citizens
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/may/27/patriot-act-civil-liberties

Invoked “government secrecy” against a lawsuit by AT&T customers “who claim federal agents illegally intercepted their phone calls” http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/06/BARP16TJOQ.DTL

Raided homes of peace activists in Minneapolis http://minnesotaindependent.com/71242/peace-activists-targeted-by-fbi-call-raids-harassment

Sought access to private e-mail correspondence without needing to go through a judge http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/opinion/30fri1.html?_r=3

Attack on Whistle Blowers and Hightened Secrecy
Toobin: Obama has been ‘very tough’ on leakers http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/07/politics/obama-leaks-prosecutions/

“Jane Mayer on the Obama war on whistle-blowers,” Glenn Greenwald, salon.com, May 16, 2011 http://www.salon.com/2011/05/16/whistleblowers_6/singleton/

Obama often spoke admiringly of whistle-blowers, whom he described as “often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government.” But the Obama Administration has pursued leak prosecutions with a surprising relentlessness. Including the Drake case, it has been using the Espionage Act to press criminal charges in five alleged instances of national-security leaks—more such prosecutions than have occurred in all previous Administrations combined. The Drake case is one of two that Obama’s Justice Department has carried over from the Bush years.”

The Most Transparent Administration Ever?

Maybe Obama IS a DINO (according to his critics like Deb, he certainly is).

I'd still take him over Bush any day. But I don't see how that proves I am "blind" to anything he does.

Who proposed and passed the Patriot Act? Not me, I opposed it and still do.

The topic of this thread is health care reform. If you claim another president could have achieved something better in 2009-2010, I still have to disagree.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Maybe Obama IS a DINO (according to his critics like Deb, he certainly is).

I'd still take him over Bush any day. But I don't see how that proves I am "blind" to anything he does.

Silly boy, I'm not his critic, I only expose his corporate and Republican ways. I guess those pesky little bubble poppers of exposing his sheep's clothing could be seen by his admirers as being a critic.

Blindness makes excuses for a president who is taking the empirical path. And, it makes us feel better for voting for him. Which I didn't do.

Originally Posted by Deb C

Silly boy, I'm not his critic, I only expose his corporate and Republican ways. I guess those pesky little bubble poppers of exposing his sheep's clothing could be seen by his admirers as being a critic.

Why would you not accept the label of "critic of Obama?" Seems rather silly to parse words like that. Of course you are. Not that there's anything wrong with that (or is that NTTAWWT). But if you prefer "exposer" I guess that works.

Blindness makes excuses for a president who is taking the empirical path. And, it makes us feel better for voting for him. Which I didn't do.

I didn't either. But you say you don't understand how the perfect can be the enemy of the good. Obama is very far from perfect. But I can see he is no worse than anyone else who could get himself elected today in this deceived and bought country. The empirical path cannot be entirely avoided if a president want to accomplish anything. Even so, he likely will not accomplish much more, except to wage war which the country gives him the permission to do, and I place the blame firmly on his opponents for that.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Even so, he likely will not accomplish much more, except to wage war which the country gives him the permission to do, and I place the blame firmly on his opponents for that.

I guess I see those who are his apologists, which keeps him unaccountable, as even a bigger problem. As Roosevelt said, "Keep me accountable!." As I see it, many on the Left have fallen down on the job.

Originally Posted by Deb C

I guess I see those who are his apologists, which keeps him unaccountable, as even a bigger problem. As Roosevelt said, "Keep me accountable!." As I see it, many on the Left have fallen down on the job.

The apologists are not blocking and watering down what he tries to do, like what happened with health care reform. His opponents did that. And all his actions for which you hold him accountable, are mostly done in order to appease those same opponents. After all, to be a "viable Democrat" today, you have to pursue a "muscular foreign policy" and "keep the country safe from terrorists."

But he does need to be held accountable anyway. He should not appease with impunity.

I guess YOU won't be fooled again! Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

The apologists are not blocking and watering down what he tries to do, like what happened with health care reform. His opponents did that. And all his actions for which you hold him accountable, are mostly done in order to appease those same opponents. After all, to be a "viable Democrat" today, you have to pursue a "muscular foreign policy" and "keep the country safe from terrorists."

But he does need to be held accountable anyway. He should not appease with impunity.

I guess YOU won't be fooled again! Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

Like the song! However, Pete Seeger who wrote this:

Where have all the soldiers gone? Gone to graveyards, ev'ryone. When will they ever learn? Oh, when will they ever learn? --Pete Seeger, "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?"

Also said this:

I tell everybody a little parable about the 'teaspoon brigades.' Imagine a big seesaw. One end of the seesaw is on the ground because it has a big basket half full of rocks in it. The other end of the seesaw is up in the air because it's got a basket one-quarter full of sand. Some of us have teaspoons, and we are trying to fill it up. Most people are scoffing at us. They say, 'People like you have been trying for thousands of years, but it is leaking out of that basket as fast as you are putting it in.' Our answer is that we are getting more people with teaspoons every day. And we believe that one of these days or years -- who knows -- that basket of sand is going to be so full that you are going to see that whole seesaw going zoop! in the other direction. Then people are going to say, 'How did it happen so suddenly?' And we answer, 'Us and our little teaspoons over thousands of years.'

I just merely offer my teaspoon.

Originally Posted by Copperfield

I'm glad that you completely missed the point of the joke.

Not surprised mind you, just glad. The entertainment value of watching you thrash around trying to service your hero(s) while you moan like a whore is far better than any other cheap internet porn.

One obvious symptom of porn addiction is a person get creepier and creepier - you're obviously pretty far down the road.

Maybe you should venture out of your mom's basement and try interacting with a real woman?

If that's too scary, try Facebook for awhile or maybe get an Xbox and play Tomb Raider.

Really, you should start somewhere. Right now, you're pretty pathetic.

Originally Posted by Deb C

Never mind that ACA is a huge giveaway of taxpayer money to the insurance industry.

Then there's this little minor detail:

Will Obamacare end medical bankruptcies? Probably not.

There's not one presented fact or analysis in that post of yours, not even a link.

You're like the Far Left's answer to Ann Coulter.

Originally Posted by Deb C

We can afford a single-payer health plan


San Francisco Chronicle
Wednesday, July 22, 2009

If congressional leaders are disturbed by the Congressional Budget Office report that their proposed health reform legislation will deepen “the already staggering national debt” (“Fiscal conservatives grumble over tab for reform,” July 20), they need to ask the question: How would the cost of a single-payer program compare?

Many health policy authorities believe that the “Medicare for all” bills introduced by Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., and Sen. Bernie Sanders, independent-Vt., are the most fiscally prudent and affordable approach to universal, comprehensive, high-quality health care.

It’s time for the president and congressional leaders to stop ignoring reality: The United States can afford national health insurance if the government administers a single-payer program. But what we cannot afford is to continue squandering $400 billion annually on the current dysfunctional patchwork of for-profit private insurance plans.

By adopting a single-payer system, that amount could be plowed back into providing expanded services for the entire population at no additional cost to the country.

LI-HSIA WANG, M.D.
HENRY L. ABRONS, M.D.

It's only a fiscal issue by political choice.

Not even the House Progressive Caucus has drafted a bill for single payer. Not even Bernie Sanders.

Hell, we couldn't even get an expansion of background checks on Internet gun sales to terrorist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=EpRQzTP8H1o

You're living in la-la land.

Originally Posted by Deb C

I don't mean this as a slam to the person who wrote about not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good but that statement has never made much sense to me. In some respects, it's like asking people to accept abuse by a political system. Kind of reminds me of....... "Just be glad I'm beating your ass with this hairbrush instead of my bull whip." It's a beating none the less.

Easy to say when you got health insurance. Not so easy when you got a sick or injured child or spouse and you're looking at health costs that are going to bankrupt you.

The piety on this issue can be measured by either the degree someone is already covered or the degree that someone is too immature and hasn't had the shit kicked out of them by life... yet.

Originally Posted by Deb C

Pretty much sums it up.

What's ugly is the willful ignorance by one of you and the nihilism of the other. You both wind up in the same place.

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

Yeah I got my Obamacare coverage...

What are you talking about?

This should be entertaining.

Originally Posted by Kepi

.... There's just nothing that forces insurance companies to compete in a context that's beneficial to people, as the entire industry is based around providing the most expensive cost and denying the most service.

You're conflating the cost of insurance with the cost of medical care. The public option doesn't solve the latter; it's just another insurance option - one that is provided by the govt.

On the insurance side the MLR means only 15% of a premium payment dollar under a group plan (20% under individual plans) can go to paperwork, advertisement, profit etc. Anything more and the difference has to be rebated to an insurance company's premium payers. That has NEVER been a requirement until now. Just how will insurance companies make unseemly profits under that federal requirement?

You will note that when Debs talks about increased profits for the insurance companies, she never goes into much detail about it. Basically,the insurers are making more profit because there are more people being covered, period. There's nothing more sinister about it that what the current system has been for decades - long before Obama was even born (I'm pretty sure underneath it all, Debs is also "a birther" - she just believes his foreign birth was a conspiracy to enslave us to insurance companies rather than take our guns away).

A number of credible economist (the non-whiners without an agenda) have actually predicted the high possibility of insurers going out of business as a result of being unprofitable due to the MLR requirement. That would greatly accelerate the possible evolving of the public option in state and regional exchanges. Still just a possibility but a whole hell of a lot more likely than anything emerging from the whining by Debs and friends.

Originally Posted by Deb C

It is quite obvious to some of us who Obama works for. Had George W taken the same exact path of giving our tax dollars to the insurance industry, there would be hell to pay by those who now tell others who expose this mess, to basically, shut up. There would be no excuses for the mess that has been created.

I hear frequently from those who make excuses for this giveaway, that so many people will now be covered by insurance. But look very closely at the prices and limited benefits of those products that will be offered to the citizens.

It's such a great deal that........

Lawmakers, Aides May Get Obamacare Exemption

April 25, 2013



The talks involve John Boehner and Harry Reid, among others. | AP Photo By JOHN BRESNAHAN and JAKE SHERMAN Politico, April 24, 2013 Congressional leaders in both parties are engaged in high-level, confidential talks about exempting lawmakers and Capitol Hill aides from the ACA.

That should tell us something, shouldn't it?

Maybe the people who are telling activists like me, to stop criticizing and wise up, should have to purchase those mandated piss poor insurance products.

If we who see an abuse of a system, are asked to s top criticizing that system, then one has to wonder about where this country is headed.

You need to go back and read the public record, the legislative history and stop living in your echo chamber's fantasy land.

The public option was killed by the election of Scott Brown because Teddy Kennedy died from a brain tumor. The next person in line for blame was Joe Lieberman. Then Blanche Lincoln and Ben Nelson.

You explain how Obama was suppose to get these people to vote for the public option - have the Marines take their first born hostage or have sex with them? Come on, let's hear it. Let's hear what you believe was the magic he was suppose to do. This should be highly entertaining. Given all the horseshit you post here about it being Obama's fault, you should have some pretty damn good argument for it. So, let's hear it for once. If you can't come up with it, maybe you should rethink what is the real reason for your posting all the propaganda that you do, because it you don't have the argument, that is exactly what you have been doing.

Originally Posted by The Rani

You're welcome, and for the record, I certainly don't see you as a "complainer."
There are plenty of people on the forum that whine about their personal lives, blaming this that or the other ... but you ain't one of 'em.

Oh please. Maybe she doesn't whine about herself but just about every post is whining that Obama didn't bring the magic ponies.