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Thread: It's time for national healthcare - Page 171







Post#4251 at 09-24-2013 05:35 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
Not that it's any of your business, I do have a serious medical condition that may require a transplant. If I can even get the organ that I need.
Pre-existing conditions may not be an exclusion, anymore, but I am worried about how premiums might be affected. I've been irradiated, exposed to lots of nasty substances, have had respiratory illnesses, and a GI tract shot to hell by late-Silent/Early Boomer bosses. I'm going to have to wait until 1 OCT to find out more definitive information. Playwright might be correct about the political theater going on being barrage jamming, to prevent people from finding out what their actual situations are, WRT ACA. This situation is a literalization of the Churchill quote about Americans finally getting things right. The Obamacare that emerged might the worst of all possible better options. That does not mean that it has to stay bad. The breaking of the sound barrier was the Supreme Court ruling. The reactionaries knew they were beat, and the insurance companies licked thier chops...







Post#4252 at 09-24-2013 05:39 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Knifes are out

@ericdkoch I guess sometimes you have to beat the entrenched Republicans before you can beat the Democrats....

— FreedomDork (@JackieBodnar) September 24, 2013
pull out the popcorn as the GOP rips itself apart.

I wonder if Obamacare will cover this? I guess it comes down to whether it will be surgical extraction or just one big F'in knife fight.

Me like.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4253 at 09-24-2013 05:48 PM by Danilynn [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 855]
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All the talk of "magic ponies" makes me feel the urge to ask: Did you not have enough My Little Ponies to play with on Christmas morning as a kid? Is that why you are so upset at these little plastic horses?

If not getting them as a kid really still bothers you that much, my 11 year old has cleaned out her toy box recently and has probably 99% of her My Little Pony collection in the donate pile. I can send you hers, she even included the miniature brushes and their accessories for the mane/tails.

But really the little plastic horses that have been living with my little girl seem quite peaceful. No reason at all to go lopping off their heads.

Her stash of to donate ponies even includes a unicorn one with pink hair, it's still in the box. You can have them to make friends and get over your death to magic ponies thing.







Post#4254 at 09-24-2013 05:54 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Danilynn View Post
All the talk of "magic ponies" makes me feel the urge to ask: Did you not have enough My Little Ponies to play with on Christmas morning as a kid? Is that why you are so upset at these little plastic horses?

If not getting them as a kid really still bothers you that much, my 11 year old has cleaned out her toy box recently and has probably 99% of her My Little Pony collection in the donate pile. I can send you hers, she even included the miniature brushes and their accessories for the mane/tails.

But really the little plastic horses that have been living with my little girl seem quite peaceful. No reason at all to go lopping off their heads.

Her stash of to donate ponies even includes a unicorn one with pink hair, it's still in the box. You can have them to make friends and get over your death to magic ponies thing.
Ah, I think you got the wrong guy. Take note of the last line of my signature.

Oh, and if you think your plastic ponies are magical, that's something you need to work out in one of your sessions.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4255 at 09-24-2013 05:56 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Now this -

- is funny -

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...obamacare.html

HOUSE REPUBLICANS LINE UP FOR FREE ANNUAL PHYSICALS BEFORE DEFUNDING OBAMACARE

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Saying that they needed to be in peak physical condition for their looming effort to defund Obamacare, over a hundred House Republicans lined up for their free annual physicals today.

The physicals, part of Congress’s government-subsidized health-care package, yielded good news for many of the House G.O.P., who learned that they were strong and healthy enough for the demanding task of defunding Obamacare.

“My blood pressure was lower than I thought it would be,” said Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio). “That’s amazing, because it goes through the roof whenever I think about how Obamacare would destroy America.”

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Virginia)—whose free annual physical included an examination of his heart, lungs, ears, eyes, throat, and blood—said that his doctor proclaimed him in perfect physical condition: “He said I should be able to live a long, healthy life and defund Obamacare for many years to come.”

Rep. Cantor added that he had lost a few pounds since last year’s free annual physical, as he headed to lunch before defunding food stamps.
- well, not really too funny when you stop and think about it, is it?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4256 at 09-24-2013 05:59 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
Pre-existing conditions may not be an exclusion, anymore, but I am worried about how premiums might be affected. I've been irradiated, exposed to lots of nasty substances, have had respiratory illnesses, and a GI tract shot to hell by late-Silent/Early Boomer bosses. I'm going to have to wait until 1 OCT to find out more definitive information. Playwright might be correct about the political theater going on being barrage jamming, to prevent people from finding out what their actual situations are, WRT ACA. This situation is a literalization of the Churchill quote about Americans finally getting things right. The Obamacare that emerged might the worst of all possible better options. That does not mean that it has to stay bad. The breaking of the sound barrier was the Supreme Court ruling. The reactionaries knew they were beat, and the insurance companies licked thier chops...
Yeah, while there are short falls with the ACA, accepting those with pre-exisiting conditions is a plus. In my situation, many of the plans that can be purchased, will possibly not include the main transplant hospitals. And considering there are thousands on transplant lists, one of the most expensive operations and after care, many can't risk buying into plans that exclude some specialists and hospitals.

I have a friend who just survived a very serious form of cancer. Had she not been able to go to the hospital that specialized in her type cancer, she would now be dead.

I grieve for the millions of human beings who will still be uninsured or who can't afford the out of pocket expenses with the ACA. But even saying this, I'm happy for those who will now have some sort of insurance. That includes you.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#4257 at 09-24-2013 06:07 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Obamacare: It's Better Than You Think

Dean Baker has this to say about ACA

In just one week the main part of Obamacare will begin to kick in. This is the state level exchanges that will allow the uninsured to be covered. Beginning on October 1, people will be able to sign up to get insurance in their state regardless of their health.Most people signing up on the exchanges will qualify for subsidies based on their income and family size. This means that the cost of insurance will be less than the advertised price.

This is good news. It means that tens of millions of people who are uninsured now will likely be insured in the next year or two as a result of the Affordable Care Act (ACA). However, this is actually the less important aspect of the program. The more important part is that those of us who now have insurance will have real health care insurance for the first time.

Most of the insured get covered through their job. This creates an obvious problem. If they develop a chronic illness, they may be unable to keep their job. Once they are no longer employed, workers will be left trying to buy insurance in the individual market.
Insurers don't want to insure people who are sick. If a person with a chronic health condition applies for insurance in the individual market, they would be facing premiums of tens of thousands of dollars a year, making it unaffordable for all but the very wealthy.

This situation will end with the start of the exchanges. Workers who lose their job because of an illness will still be able to find affordable insurance. This will provide a huge element of security that is currently lacking. In effect, most workers will have true health insurance for the first time.

Workers of all ages will benefit from this transformation of the insurance market, but it will be especially important for older workers in poor health. There are a large number of older workers who struggle to stay employed despite bad health, because this is the only way that they will be able to afford insurance until they are old enough to qualify for Medicare.

Many of these people will now find insurance to be affordable with the subsidies on the exchanges even if they do not work. Some critics of Obamacare have argued that it will undermine incentives to work. In the case of older workers in poor health they are right, and this will be good.

There is much real basis for criticism of the ACA. Private insurers are the sole providers of insurance. Not only are we not getting universal Medicare, we did not even get a public option, the right to purchase a Medicare-type plan that would compete with private insurers.

The drug companies and medical equipment suppliers both end up as winners under Obamacare. They will be able to secure even greater profits from their government-provided patent monopolies since the ACA does little to rein in costs.

As a result, we will still be paying close to twice as much for drugs and medical devices as people in other wealthy countries. This is a guaranteed recipe for bad health care since the enormous profits provided by these patent monopolies give drug companies an incentive to push their drugs even when they may be harmful.

And we will still be paying twice as much for our doctors as people in other wealthy countries. These failures on cost controls will add hundreds of billions of dollars to the cost of health care each year.

The fact that so many states refused to go along with the expansion of Medicaid will leave millions of working poor uncovered. Undocumented workers were explicitly prohibited from being covered through the exchanges. And the plan will effectively penalize many workers who get insurance through union-sponsored plans, since they will not be eligible for subsidies through the exchanges.

These are serious complaints about the inadequacy of Obamacare that will have to be addressed in the years ahead. But none of these problems changes the fact that the ACA is an enormous step forward. Most of the country will now have real security in their access to health care. The agenda now has to be to extend this security to the rest of the country and to squeeze the parasites out of the health care system.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#4258 at 09-24-2013 09:17 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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With the last gasp -

of bagger efforts at the national level to defeat Obamacare coming down to the wire, we will soon move out of the Beltway wars and into the innumerable battlegrounds at the local level for hearts and minds.

Krugman takes a look down the road at that and finds likely very good news for the reformers vs the baggers (even with their Koch monies)

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ller-hipsters/

Attack of the Killer Hipsters

Jonathan Chait has an excellent survey of the current state of the battle for health reform. Among other things, it drives home the extent to which — despite all the glitches likely in the first few months — this is now being fought on favorable terrain for the reformers.

Never mind the polls showing approval of Obamacare moving one way or the other; they are all being taken in an environment where people are amazingly ignorant about the law, with a large minority believing that it has been repealed. What matters is how the thing works — and that, in turn, depends crucially on sufficient numbers of young, currently uninsured people signing up for the exchanges. Advocates will try to get those people signed up; Republicans will try to convince them not to. So how are the two sides’ chances.

Well, let’s think about who we’re talking about: Young. Currently uninsured, which generally means not very affluent, and also tends to mean nonwhite more than average.

In other words, basically the opposite of the profile of Tea Party backers. Also, by the way, more or less the opposite of midterm voters.

Chait stresses the youth aspect:

Fortunately for Obama, this field of battle favors his side. To pass the law, he needed to win over skeptical senators. To defend it in court, he needed conservative jurists. But identifying and persuading young people is a battle Obama does not expect to lose to Republicans, and in place of the federal outreach funds, the administration is deploying a campaignlike array of weapons: microtargeting, including door-to-door outreach, and all forms of media. (A few weeks ago, Katy Perry tweeted out a link informing her 42 million followers that health care was available beginning October 1.)

Yep, when it comes to reaching hipsters, or young people in general — I know, Katy Perry — Dems have big advantages; all that coastal cultural elite hatred suddenly turns into a big disadvantage for the right.

But that’s not all: there are also channels of influence the party of Fox News simply cannot reach: Spanish-language radio and TV, black churches (which played a big role in 2012), and more.

I don’t know whether anyone thought this out in advance, but the battle of the exchanges is indeed being fought on remarkably favorable ground for the reformers. And I, for one, find the thought of conservatives humiliated by an army of tweeting hipsters remarkably cheering.
bagger tears make me smile
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4259 at 09-24-2013 10:42 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
"The idea of an individual mandate was popularized by the Heritage Foundation and other conservative think tanks as early as 1989. Today, Heritage cites differences between their idea and the Obama version. Yet the basic principles are the same." ... The Patriot News
The fact remains that the ACA was pushed through by the Democrats, so it would seem to me that this is now the Democrat position, which is far from 'right wing'.







Post#4260 at 09-25-2013 12:09 AM by annla899 [at joined Sep 2008 #posts 2,860]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
The fact remains that the ACA was pushed through by the Democrats, so it would seem to me that this is now the Democrat position, which is far from 'right wing'.
It's what got passed, which is more than has been done since Teddy Roosevelt proposed it before WWI. Even Nixon had a health plan before Teddy Kennedy fought it as not going far enough. The Heritage Foundation came up with something close to this plan in the 90s when Hillarycare in motion.

I have this odd feeling that once this thing goes into effect, after a few years most people are going to be ok with it--and many are going to want it to go further.

(BTW, the term is "Democratic.")







Post#4261 at 09-25-2013 12:12 AM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Without coverage, I would now be dead from colon cancer.







Post#4262 at 09-25-2013 12:19 AM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by annla899 View Post
It's what got passed, which is more than has been done since Teddy Roosevelt proposed it before WWI. Even Nixon had a health plan before Teddy Kennedy fought it as not going far enough. The Heritage Foundation came up with something close to this plan in the 90s when Hillarycare in motion.

I have this odd feeling that once this thing goes into effect, after a few years most people are going to be ok with it--and many are going to want it to go further.

(BTW, the term is "Democratic.")
OK , Democratic. I just don't understand trying to label the ACA as 'right wing'. It is clear that we need health care reform and there are several models to work from . It appears to me that Congress settled for a poor approach.







Post#4263 at 09-25-2013 01:11 AM by annla899 [at joined Sep 2008 #posts 2,860]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
Yeah, while there are short falls with the ACA, accepting those with pre-exisiting conditions is a plus. In my situation, many of the plans that can be purchased, will possibly not include the main transplant hospitals. And considering there are thousands on transplant lists, one of the most expensive operations and after care, many can't risk buying into plans that exclude some specialists and hospitals.

I have a friend who just survived a very serious form of cancer. Had she not been able to go to the hospital that specialized in her type cancer, she would now be dead.

I grieve for the millions of human beings who will still be uninsured or who can't afford the out of pocket expenses with the ACA. But even saying this, I'm happy for those who will now have some sort of insurance. That includes you.
I truly hope that you get the health care and assistance you need and I am deeply sorry about what you have to go through in your health care. It makes me sick. The $1000 a month isn't surprising to me, as a close friend without a what has been termed a preexisting condition was paying $650 a month through BC/BS.

I prefer national health care. That it hasn't existed in the US is mind-boggling. In this, the richest country in the world, that we aren't willing to pay more so that all of us can have decent access to health care is just fucked up. I would be grateful for my tax dollars to go to transplants rather than drones. I don't even care if someone's "lifestyle" hasn't been one that has been deemed healthy, since I know too many people who have lived "healthy" lives who have been ill, gotten cancer and who have somehow been blamed for it or who have had to had fund raisers so their 4-year old could have treatment for her brain tumor.

A frickin tip jar in a 7-11 so a kid could get treatment for brain tumor.

And this country can feed the world. It makes. no. fucking. sense. So I work for what? So I can accumulate more crap for myself and my family? So I can feel spechul? Better than those losers who....?

And then I'm buying taco chips or some crap at the bodega and there's a smeared jar on the counter with a kid's face taped on it because there's no money left for treatment. So I stuff a dollar in the jar like that's going to really help. It only makes me feel better.

Ayn Rand isn't Rand Paul's pipe dream. It's here. I went through 10 years of no health insurance and have the dental bills to show for it. My doctor at the time lied for me so I didn't have a preexisting condition when I bought individual health insurance. And that was when a visit was $50 cash.

I get you. And I appreciate that you've given consideration to the recent changes. ACA is not enough, in my view, too.

But ACA or Obamacare is the first light in the shitty tunnel that has been health insurance in the US. That the US is incapable at this point of doing better is fucking idiotic and tragic. I hope to hell it improves.
Last edited by annla899; 09-25-2013 at 01:13 AM.







Post#4264 at 09-25-2013 08:01 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by annla899 View Post
I truly hope that you get the health care and assistance you need and I am deeply sorry about what you have to go through in your health care. It makes me sick. The $1000 a month isn't surprising to me, as a close friend without a what has been termed a preexisting condition was paying $650 a month through BC/BS.

I prefer national health care. That it hasn't existed in the US is mind-boggling. In this, the richest country in the world, that we aren't willing to pay more so that all of us can have decent access to health care is just fucked up. I would be grateful for my tax dollars to go to transplants rather than drones. I don't even care if someone's "lifestyle" hasn't been one that has been deemed healthy, since I know too many people who have lived "healthy" lives who have been ill, gotten cancer and who have somehow been blamed for it or who have had to had fund raisers so their 4-year old could have treatment for her brain tumor.
We are a rich country with very poor people and a backward economic order. What fosters quick profits gets honored, and all else must be shoved aside. Plutocrats and corporate bureaucrats have all the power and expect us to defer in all things. Henry Clay Frick would almost be proud. Almost -- because we have not yet endorsed his thuggish violence toward those ungrateful to people who would work us to exhaustion on starvation pay.

But if we don't have the police and military mowing down strikers here, we can have our military aiding economic elites elsewhere in doing so. Maybe President Obama can stop much of it for now, but once the Republicans get the full power in America they will compel us to work to pay taxes to buy the bullets to mow us down if we strike against the most rapacious elites that the world has ever known. When we have people who believe that their indulgences are the definitive purpose in a nation and the lives of working people mean nothing,. such is what one gets.

A frickin tip jar in a 7-11 so a kid could get treatment for brain tumor.
Deliberately futile. Our elites want life to be completely futile for all but themselves.

And this country can feed the world. It makes. no. fucking. sense. So I work for what? So I can accumulate more crap for myself and my family? So I can feel spechul? Better than those losers who....?
The ultimate losers in history are those arrogant, demanding elites who find themselves on the wrong end of historical judgment. They get overthrown, dispossessed, and either exiled or killed, and after people find that they can do well enough without them they don't get asked to return and 'rectify' everything. The fault with the Bolsheviks wasn't that they overthrew the Russian aristocracy and plutocrats; the problem was that they established a new and bad system instead of letting people start over with independent small businesses including small farms.

Ayn Rand isn't Rand Paul's pipe dream. It's here. I went through 10 years of no health insurance and have the dental bills to show for it. My doctor at the time lied for me so I didn't have a preexisting condition when I bought individual health insurance. And that was when a visit was $50 cash.
American elites seek to push us to our limits of survival so that they can get even more. How much is too much? Is it worth having a nation of broken people? Is it worth pervasive corruption? Is it worth the destruction of rational science? Is it worth Orwellian Newspeak as political discourse? Is it worth a party-Boss dictatorship?

I get you. And I appreciate that you've given consideration to the recent changes. ACA is not enough, in my view, too.
The optimum, of course, is Medicare for All. But that cuts into the profits of for-profit bureaucracies that operate on a cost-plus basis.

But ACA or Obamacare is the first light in the shitty tunnel that has been health insurance in the US. That the US is incapable at this point of doing better is fucking idiotic and tragic. I hope to hell it improves.[/QUOTE]
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#4265 at 09-25-2013 08:51 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
OK , Democratic. I just don't understand trying to label the ACA as 'right wing'. It is clear that we need health care reform and there are several models to work from . It appears to me that Congress settled for a poor approach.
In case you missed the show, the ACA was about as far as this concept could go in the Congress of the time. Max Baucus, DINO - Montana, made sure of that.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#4266 at 09-25-2013 08:55 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by annla899 View Post
... But ACA or Obamacare is the first light in the shitty tunnel that has been health insurance in the US. That the US is incapable at this point of doing better is fucking idiotic and tragic. I hope to hell it improves.
You said that much better than I did. Yes, it sucks ... almost as bad as not having it. Almost.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#4267 at 09-25-2013 09:37 AM by Earl and Mooch [at Delaware - we pave paradise and put up parking lots joined Sep 2002 #posts 2,106]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
You said that much better than I did. Yes, it sucks ... almost as bad as not having it. Almost.
Hopefully in a decade or two a friendlier Congress can expand and improve it. ACA is much preferable to the Clintons dropping their bill on Congress and saying "take it or leave it".
Last edited by Earl and Mooch; 09-25-2013 at 09:39 AM.
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didn´t replace it with nothing but lost faith."

Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY







Post#4268 at 09-25-2013 09:42 AM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
In case you missed the show, the ACA was about as far as this concept could go in the Congress of the time. Max Baucus, DINO - Montana, made sure of that.
I saw the 'show' and still think that we need a national consensus for major changes like the ACA. The Democratic Senate wil not even allow debate. I am weary of the Congesional posturing on both sides.







Post#4269 at 09-25-2013 10:22 AM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
The fact remains that the ACA was pushed through by the Democrats, so it would seem to me that this is now the Democrat position, which is far from 'right wing'.
I think what many of us don't realize, is that both political parties are to the right. Sure, the Republicans are much further right, but most Dems are right leaning. We no longer have a true Left wing party in this country.

I also find it interesting that most don't even question why we have to pay a corporation, that makes billions a year in profits, so that we citizens can access some degree of health care. It's about time that we stop settling for corporations being in charge of who gets healthcare in this country.
Last edited by Deb C; 09-25-2013 at 10:30 AM.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#4270 at 09-25-2013 10:28 AM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by annla899 View Post
I truly hope that you get the health care and assistance you need and I am deeply sorry about what you have to go through in your health care. It makes me sick. The $1000 a month isn't surprising to me, as a close friend without a what has been termed a preexisting condition was paying $650 a month through BC/BS.

I prefer national health care. That it hasn't existed in the US is mind-boggling. In this, the richest country in the world, that we aren't willing to pay more so that all of us can have decent access to health care is just fucked up. I would be grateful for my tax dollars to go to transplants rather than drones. I don't even care if someone's "lifestyle" hasn't been one that has been deemed healthy, since I know too many people who have lived "healthy" lives who have been ill, gotten cancer and who have somehow been blamed for it or who have had to had fund raisers so their 4-year old could have treatment for her brain tumor.

A frickin tip jar in a 7-11 so a kid could get treatment for brain tumor.

And this country can feed the world. It makes. no. fucking. sense. So I work for what? So I can accumulate more crap for myself and my family? So I can feel spechul? Better than those losers who....?

And then I'm buying taco chips or some crap at the bodega and there's a smeared jar on the counter with a kid's face taped on it because there's no money left for treatment. So I stuff a dollar in the jar like that's going to really help. It only makes me feel better.

Ayn Rand isn't Rand Paul's pipe dream. It's here. I went through 10 years of no health insurance and have the dental bills to show for it. My doctor at the time lied for me so I didn't have a preexisting condition when I bought individual health insurance. And that was when a visit was $50 cash.

I get you. And I appreciate that you've given consideration to the recent changes. ACA is not enough, in my view, too.

But ACA or Obamacare is the first light in the shitty tunnel that has been health insurance in the US. That the US is incapable at this point of doing better is fucking idiotic and tragic. I hope to hell it improves.
Very well said. I thank you.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#4271 at 09-25-2013 10:44 AM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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09-25-2013, 10:44 AM #4271
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Bernie Sanders' thoughts:

"Obamacare is ‘A Good Republican Program’: Sen. Sanders said Tuesday that the health care reform law doesn't go nearly far enough and reiterated his support of a single-payer, Medicare-for-all universal health care program. The U.S. is the "only nation in the entire industrial world that doesn't guarantee health care as a right," Sanders said on CNN's Crossfire. He called the Affordable Care Act a “good Republican program,” referring to the Massachusetts program by former governor and Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney."
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#4272 at 09-25-2013 11:01 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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09-25-2013, 11:01 AM #4272
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The unfortunate truth

Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
...The optimum, of course, is Medicare for All. But that cuts into the profits of for-profit bureaucracies that operate on a cost-plus basis.
Krugman has a piece that looks into the future that assumes the private insurer model eventually collapses -

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...medicaid/?_r=1

I Have Seen The Future, And It Is Medicaid
and he presents this graph -



- which tells him the future will be one of MEDICAID for all rather than Medicare for all.

And he notes -

Also, middle-class patients would surely be unhappy if transferred from the open-handedness of Medicare to the penny-pinching of Medicaid.
As someone who understands how our monetary system actually works, I know that the only non-political constrain on federal spending is demand-driven inflation; and for now, demand-driven inflation is on no credible forecaster's horizon.

That is not the case with health care expenditures. It's pretty easy to see that an unlimited single payer would bring incredible levels of inflation to health care costs over and beyond what we have already experienced (it's slowed down the last couple of years, but that is due to the economy and is likely a temporary pause in escalating costs). Couple that with an aging population and the inflationary constraint on federal spending is destined to come into play for single payer health care costs.

That means that cost controls will be the primary issue in single payer. In addition to the near rebellion that will cause in the medical providers, there will be older folks and those with major health issues not happy with limitations - govt death panels will seem very real to them. On the other hand, there will be plenty of young people not happy at all with the federal expenditures going into single payer, mostly for old people, that is used as the excuse to raise their taxes and reduce govt support for those things younger people want - education particularly for K-12, unemployment insurance, roads, etc. We already see that divide today, imagine the divide if health expenditures become 70% of the federal/state budgets with double digit annual inflation rates!

Anyone who thinks that single payer is some sort of panacea for this incredibly tough societal issue really hasn't thought it out. While I agree it is the better road to take, it should not be taken as being a road that only gently slopes downward into magic pony land. Krugman essentially comes up with the same conclusion.
Last edited by playwrite; 09-25-2013 at 11:09 AM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4273 at 09-25-2013 03:07 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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09-25-2013, 03:07 PM #4273
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This is the end -

--- of the world as we know it???


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...here-you-live/

How much will Obamacare premiums cost? Depends on where you live.

A 27-year-old in Austin who earns $25,000 could pay $85 per month for health insurance next year, and a family of four in St. Louis with income of $50,000 might face a $32 monthly premium, according to new federal data on health insurance rates under the Affordable Care Act.

The report, released Wednesday by the Department of Health and Human Services, showed significant variation in the insurance premiums that Americans shopping on the individual market could pay under the president’s health-care overhaul. Across the 48 states for which data were available, the unsubsidized monthly premiums could be as low as $70 for an individual and as high as $1,200 for a moderate plan for a family of four.

The average national premium for an individual policy will be $328 in 2014, before including any of the tax credits that will be available to low- and middle-income Americans to help them purchase coverage.

Officials say these prices will be affordable for people buying insurance through the government marketplaces slated to open next week.

“For millions of Americans, these new options will finally make health insurance work within their budgets,” Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said.

Information about how much insurance plans will cost under the law, sometimes called Obamacare, has been dribbling out for months on a state-by-state basis.

But the report from the administration, which has been collecting rate information since the spring, offers the first comprehensive look at the effect of the law on many Americans — specifically those who buy coverage privately and not through their employers, as well as low-income uninsured people who are not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid.

Beginning Tuesday, those people will be able to log on to government Web sites called marketplaces to peruse their plan options, apply for government subsidies and sign up for coverage effective next year. That is when the requirement kicks in that virtually every American carry health insurance or face a fine.

The report also includes information for more than two dozen states that declined to set up their own marketplaces, leaving at least part of the job up to the federal government.

Premiums will vary significantly depending on an individual’s income, where she lives and what type of coverage she buys. A 27-year-old in Fairfax County, for example, could spend between $124 and $258 on a health plan, depending on how robust she wants it to be.

A family of four in Fairfax County that earns $50,000 could get a health insurance plan with no premium at all, because the federal tax credit would cover the bill.

Most people using the marketplaces will have incomes low enough to qualify for a government subsidy. A recent administration report found that 56 percent of the roughly 41 million uninsured people eligible for the marketplaces could pay monthly premiums of $100 or less.

Health experts say it is a good sign for consumers that premiums have come in lower than expected. Under the law, the plans must offer a basic set of benefits, including mental health and maternity care, which previously were not included in many private plans. Insurers are also forbidden from rejecting or charging people more because of preexisting conditions.

Many experts worried that those factors would drive up the cost of insurance. They partially credit competition on the marketplaces, where people will be able to directly compare plans from different insurance companies, for restraining premiums.

But they warn that premiums don’t tell the whole story.

The low rates are possible in part because insurance companies created special plans that include fewer in-network doctors and hospitals than many current plans.

This may not be a problem for healthy people who currently lack insurance. But those with illnesses may discover that their specialists are not covered by an exchange insurance plan. Low-income people accustomed to a certain community clinic may find that going there is no longer an option. And everyone may encounter long waits to see a doctor.

In addition, many of the lowest-cost plans may carry high deductibles, despite a cap imposed by the law that limits out-of-pocket costs to $6,350 per person per year.

“Despite the fact that the premiums are lower than expected, enrollees on exchanges are likely to face very high out-of-pocket costs before they hit their cap, and they are at risk of being in very narrow network plans that may or may not include all the providers they need access to,” said Caroline Pearson, vice president of health reform at the consulting firm Avalere Health, which did its own report on rates this month.

Some healthy people may also experience sticker shock on premiums. A recent analysis by the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think tank, found that some people who buy low-cost private plans today could see their rates jump by 24 percent.
- well, you still might have to give up your freedom fries or the black hawk helicopters are gonna swoop in and take you to the death panels! Oh, my.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4274 at 09-25-2013 03:20 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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09-25-2013, 03:20 PM #4274
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
I think what many of us don't realize, is that both political parties are to the right. Sure, the Republicans are much further right, but most Dems are right leaning. We no longer have a true Left wing party in this country.

I also find it interesting that most don't even question why we have to pay a corporation, that makes billions a year in profits, so that we citizens can access some degree of health care. It's about time that we stop settling for corporations being in charge of who gets healthcare in this country.
We clearly have different perceptions of right and left. The Democratic party looks left to me. Maybe we need different terms other than right/left. I would like Congress to review the health care systems in other countries and then develop a sound plan for the USA. I don't expect this to happen ( would take a commission to do this). Congress seems only able to talk without having a dialogue.







Post#4275 at 09-25-2013 03:23 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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09-25-2013, 03:23 PM #4275
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
Bernie Sanders' thoughts:

"Obamacare is ‘A Good Republican Program’: Sen. Sanders said Tuesday that the health care reform law doesn't go nearly far enough and reiterated his support of a single-payer, Medicare-for-all universal health care program. The U.S. is the "only nation in the entire industrial world that doesn't guarantee health care as a right," Sanders said on CNN's Crossfire. He called the Affordable Care Act a “good Republican program,” referring to the Massachusetts program by former governor and Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney."
Sanders can call it whatever he pleases, but there is little current GOP support for the ACA.
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