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Thread: It's time for national healthcare - Page 175







Post#4351 at 09-30-2013 01:37 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
It's basically the same plan I've had for four years, except this one has a much higher deductible and a slightly lower total out-of-pocket cost. Even if the price were the same, I'd probably pick the old plan because a $5,000 deductible is just absurd.

But yeah, in those four years I've been buying insurance and not using it, the cost of the premium has more than tripled.

The premium price they're quoting is also suspiciously close to my income cut-off for subsidies. Perfect price discrimination in a captive market - it's every crony capitalists' wet-dream.
Hey, you're not that guy in Brooklyn that was trying to sell the bridge this weekend?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4352 at 09-30-2013 01:38 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Hey, you're not that guy in Brooklyn that was trying to sell the bridge this weekend?
No I was in Florida this weekend, working.

But selling bridges would probably be more productive than trying to get answers from my insurer. After 20 minutes on hold, I finally got to talk to someone - who said they can't talk about the new plans until tomorrow.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#4353 at 09-30-2013 01:39 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Only in your imagination. But see below for why I feel sad for you.

I empathize with all living beings, including someone like yourself who feels so rotten inside that he feels a need to beat up strangers on the internet.

There you go again. Gacy and Bundy would have been proud.
It might start to make sense if you can come to understand that I'm not 'beat[ing] up strangers on the internet' - how would one do that? Maybe it's part of the new Windows 8 operating system?

What I'm beating up on is written stupidity on the Internet.

You empathize with stupidity?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4354 at 09-30-2013 01:45 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
No I was in Florida this weekend, working.

But selling bridges would probably be more productive than trying to get answers from my insurer. After 20 minutes on hold, I finally got to talk to someone - who said they can't talk about the new plans until tomorrow.
And worse, you can buy that insurance starting tomorrow (on sort of a layaway plan) but you can't get on it until January 1st.

But at least you'll be able to compare what you would have faced without Obamacare and what it has brought you. That too will be limited because the information you can get on the new plans tomorrow will be abundantly clearer but what you have now will continue to be nearly obscure.

Your comparison will still be interesting, however. Best of luck!

Just be sure to keep your cat away from your dog starting tomorrow; according to the GOP, the potential for the conception of kitty-mutts will be very high tomorrow!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4355 at 09-30-2013 01:46 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Even people who agree with you politically have pointed out that your personal attacks make the majority of your posts unreadable.
How smart is that?
And guess what there are PEOPLE on the other side of those attacks. You must know that, if you like making them so miserable.
Tell me what's making you miserable - my specific words.

This could be very insightful.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4356 at 09-30-2013 01:58 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
It's basically the same plan I've had for four years, except this one has a much higher deductible and a slightly lower total out-of-pocket cost. Even if the price were the same, I'd probably pick the old plan because a $5,000 deductible is just absurd.
I was wrong, the new plan is much worse.


  • The $10 prescription copay is replaced by a $25-100 copay.
  • Primary care visits are $45 instead of $25, and they're still limited to four.
  • Specialist visits used to be a 40% copay, and now they're just part of the deductible.
  • Speaking of the deductible, it's up to $5,000 from $3,500.
  • I'm not even sure if they're going to count the deductible toward the OOP max in 2014, there's a loophole in the law that might let them out of it. Anyway, the OOP is going to $6,350 from $4,000 so if they count the deductible this year it would be a ~10% decrease of my total costs in a worst-case scenario. If the deductible isn't counted toward OOP in 2014, it will be a ~67% increase in my worst-case cost liability.


For all that, I get to pay just 114% more!!!
Last edited by JohnMc82; 09-30-2013 at 02:04 PM.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#4357 at 09-30-2013 02:15 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
I was wrong, the new plan is much worse.


  • The $10 prescription copay is replaced by a $25-100 copay.
  • Primary care visits are $45 instead of $25, and they're still limited to four.
  • Specialist visits used to be a 40% copay, and now they're just part of the deductible.
  • Speaking of the deductible, it's up to $5,000 from $3,500.
  • I'm not even sure if they're going to count the deductible toward the OOP max in 2014, there's a loophole in the law that might let them out of it. Anyway, the OOP is going to $6,350 from $4,000 so if they count the deductible this year it would be a ~10% decrease of my total costs in a worst-case scenario. If the deductible isn't counted toward OOP in 2014, it will be a ~67% increase in my worst-case cost liability.


For all that, I get to pay just 114% more!!!
Good, now let's see how that compares to what's available on the health exchange starting tomorrow. What state are you in?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4358 at 09-30-2013 02:20 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Obamacare rollout -

- is not looking good.

As you know, Obamacare really gets started tonight after midnight.

What you may not have realized is that transporting it all over the country ("the rollout") just got started this afternoon.

It's not looking good, folks!

Let's go to video!



GOP sent out a tweet already -

"we told you so!#"

I just hate know it alls!
Last edited by playwrite; 09-30-2013 at 02:23 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4359 at 09-30-2013 03:24 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#4360 at 09-30-2013 03:56 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
It's basically the same plan I've had for four years, except this one has a much higher deductible and a slightly lower total out-of-pocket cost. Even if the price were the same, I'd probably pick the old plan because a $5,000 deductible is just absurd.

But yeah, in those four years I've been buying insurance and not using it, the cost of the premium has more than tripled.

The premium price they're quoting is also suspiciously close to my income cut-off for subsidies. Perfect price discrimination in a captive market - it's every crony capitalists' wet-dream.
I've heard that the Blues are the least agressive on pricing of any plan-sponsor in any given market. This is not surprising to me. Have you shopped any other plan, or is tomorown the first day you get to see exchange pricing?
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#4361 at 09-30-2013 03:58 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
No I was in Florida this weekend, working.

But selling bridges would probably be more productive than trying to get answers from my insurer. After 20 minutes on hold, I finally got to talk to someone - who said they can't talk about the new plans until tomorrow.
Oh course, Florida has the disadvantage of having a governor who has made it his goal to kill Obamacare by any means, fair or foul.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#4362 at 09-30-2013 04:52 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by TimWalker View Post
Missouri is spared tidal waves.
We do have our share of disaster movie material. Yup, STL can be a frakked up place.

Better to be stuck here, with a semi-functional support infrastructure, than Mississippi.







Post#4363 at 09-30-2013 05:08 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by Danilynn View Post
Now, first and foremost, the Civil War was not over slavery. It was over States' rights.

<snip>

Lincoln was not the generous integration minded President everyone makes him out to be. He had some pretty radical, racist ideas on that subject.

The incomes you cited are great for helping the minimum wage crowd that ALREADY gets lots of government help.

I am referring to the people working in manufacturing that make about $33K a year with 2 kids and because of the low cost of living ( here anyways) of most things now can afford on that for one parent either through need or plain old desire to be a homemaker.

Or the 2 parent family, both working, with a yearly combined income of $43K a year.

They get screwed. Theses are the people I refer to. The people I know who get to choose between groceries, electricity, or this new bill. Or pay the fine, I mean tax.
Wow. The Lincoln-hate is strong in you.

Jordan, et al, have said it for me on the ACW. We now see the envy politics at work.

Dani, I'm a *grossly* over-educated person, stuck in that middle squeeze, and I'm not angry that people in trouble are getting a share of my earnings. It's a small price to pay, compared to total breakdown of the social contract. I just had to turn down a ridiculous job offer that promised nothing but tears, because they wanted someone who was worth $100 K/yr in the old days to work convienience-store hours, and c-store pay levels. 80 hours a week for even cheaper bastards than the ones I am currently working for. And a loooong commute, to boot.

I don't think the poor, or working poor, are the villains here. Kicking them because they will get help is kicking the dog. Those of us (like me) just above that level, are only one pay period away from that state, and I think it's bad luck, at least, to tempt the Almighty by bitching that you have to share.







Post#4364 at 09-30-2013 05:10 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Holy fucking hell, BCBS just sent me a letter to inform me that my premium will be increasing by 115% this year. Kinda makes all those 20% increases in the last few years look like chump change.

Maybe the government will pay for some of that, maybe not. Either way, we're wasting a ton of cash here while the insurers have their profitability protected by law.
No argument. The insurance companies wrote the the law, in great part.







Post#4365 at 09-30-2013 05:14 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
The premium price they're quoting is also suspiciously close to my income cut-off for subsidies. Perfect price discrimination in a captive market - it's every crony capitalists' wet-dream.
Mine is *worse*. Maxing out the HSA is part of the plan to cost-shift the load onto the individual. Crony Capitalism describes it perfectly.







Post#4366 at 09-30-2013 05:51 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
I don't think the poor, or working poor, are the villains here. Kicking them because they will get help is kicking the dog. Those of us (like me) just above that level, are only one pay period away from that state, and I think it's bad luck, at least, to tempt the Almighty by bitching that you have to share.
But is the ACA really helping them, either? If households who make too much for subsidies are having a hard time with premiums, how will they pay medical costs if someone gets sick - especially if the someone who gets sick is supposed to be contributing to the household income?

So what hope is there for the people who are qualifying for subsidies? They'll never be able to afford the deductibles & out of pocket costs that go along these plans, even with the taxpayer picking up most of the premium.

The only winners I see are the investors and owners of insurance companies.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#4367 at 09-30-2013 06:05 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
But is the ACA really helping them, either? If households who make too much for subsidies are having a hard time with premiums, how will they pay medical costs if someone gets sick - especially if the someone who gets sick is supposed to be contributing to the household income?

So what hope is there for the people who are qualifying for subsidies? They'll never be able to afford the deductibles & out of pocket costs that go along these plans, even with the taxpayer picking up most of the premium.

The only winners I see are the investors and owners of insurance companies.
Ding ding ding. Which is why a lot of people on the left didn't like ACA from what I hear.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#4368 at 09-30-2013 06:14 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
You aren't making me miserable.
It makes me sad that some people in this world get off on the misery of others. Which, by your own admission, includes you.
Teachers make kids miserable all the time, but eventually, for most, the kids benefit. And a good teacher feels great about that misery they provided.

Maybe consider being less concerned about being 'made' miserable and more on trying to learn some reality.

Your particular magic ponies will be miserable as you exit their land, but you'll thank me.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4369 at 09-30-2013 06:26 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
But is the ACA really helping them, either? If households who make too much for subsidies are having a hard time with premiums, how will they pay medical costs if someone gets sick - especially if the someone who gets sick is supposed to be contributing to the household income?

So what hope is there for the people who are qualifying for subsidies? They'll never be able to afford the deductibles & out of pocket costs that go along these plans, even with the taxpayer picking up most of the premium.

The only winners I see are the investors and owners of insurance companies.
Come on, you can't just throw these assertions out there without some numbers, and, you know, facts.

The poor and working poor are going to be on Medicaid; to a greater extent in those states without heartless a-hole GOP governors and state legislators. Anybody who is really concerned about the poor and working poor should be railing against that injustice; if they're blaming Obamacare, they're full of horseshit.

Then you have those that qualify for the subsidies and those that don't. You say what will happen to those that loss the ability to stay at a level of income above the subsidies - duh, they would fall to a level that qualifies for the subsidies. Those that have the subsidies and fall in income, they qualify for Medicaid.

Now, one can compare that to the reality of today. That would be bankruptcy and being at the mercy of emergency room care which is NOT ALLOWED to give you long term care.

You can compare it to the magic pony land of a public option or single payer, but that is all you are doing. Why not compare it to each of us having a magic unicorn that lets us live forever???

Wait, I think Debs has already done that.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4370 at 09-30-2013 06:30 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Ding ding ding. Which is why a lot of people on the left didn't like ACA from what I hear.

~Chas'88
yea, and my kid doesn't like that mean old adults make him do his homework.

Those mean old adults just don't seem to buy my kid's story that magic ponies will do his homework if they just leave him alone.

Silly adults.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4371 at 09-30-2013 07:16 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Too funny -

Sebelius: The Exchanges will be operational tomorrow, shutdown or no shutdown.


Emperor Sebelius: BEHOLD THE POWER OF THESE FULLY OPERATIONAL EXCHANGES!

Luke Cruzwalker: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4372 at 09-30-2013 09:01 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
As I said, I'm not concerned about being "made" miserable. You don't make me miserable in the slightest.
But it's a fact that only sociopaths feel great about making others miserable.
For somebody who's not miserable, you sure want to talk about you not being miserable.

I thought that was a pretty clear sign in your line of work.


Don't worry, the world as we know it comes to an end at midnight.... for everybody!

The Obamacare magic ponies -




- will soon be flying all over our once great nation and ripping those freedom fries right out of your hands. But it's healthy!

And ladies, you know the GOP has clued you in on what's up with your next GYN-OB appointment starting tomorrow!



They're coming!




It's under 3 hours now! The end is near!

AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4373 at 10-01-2013 02:04 AM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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The Healthcare.gov site is getting swamped. Looks like lots of people were waiting for it to go live.







Post#4374 at 10-01-2013 02:06 AM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Um, no. I mentioned the fact that you enjoy trying to make other people miserable.
Pretty rich, coming from the Queen Of Snark.







Post#4375 at 10-01-2013 05:07 AM by princeofcats67 [at joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,995]
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The ACA = "shit sandwich"!


Prince
I Am A Child of God/Nature/The Universe
I Think Globally and Act Individually(and possibly, voluntarily join-together with Others)
I Pray for World Peace & I Choose Less-Just Say: "NO!, Thank You."
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