Originally Posted by JohnMc82

Public option? Oh, no no no. That would be evil like communism. The Dems took that out way way back in the negotiations, long before the bill was passed the first time.

Forcing people to buy a private, overpriced product - that's what passes for liberalism in America.

So... it shouldn't be too surprising how much farther right our conservatives are from them.

You might be talking about Joe Lieberman who was actually an Independent, not a Democrat, at the time. He's gone now; drummed out of Conn. elections.

He would not have been able to kill the public option without the support of 39 GOP senators.

So, I guess that's fair, one bad Indy voting with 39 Repugs so it's the Dems' fault - pretty par 'thinking' on this forum.

As previously noted, Sarah Kliff is doing blog watch on the healthcare.gov experiences today.

Here's one -

The Affordable Care Act's new insurance marketplaces opened Tuesday morning, where individuals can shop for individual health insurance coverage. Throughout the day, we'll be talking to people about their experiences trying to sign up on day one.

Lori Futcher hit a glitch Tuesday morning when she tried to enroll on Tennessee's new insurance marketplace. But she was actually excited to see the error message: It said that too many people were trying to use the site, and she would need to wait a little longer.

"My reaction was like 'yay, a lot of people want coverage!'" Futcher, a 42-year-old mother who was trying to buy coverage for her husband, said. "There are lots of other people like me are getting going on day one."

Futcher has insurance coverage through Medicare due to a disability that makes it too difficult for her to work. Her children, after going uninsured for six months, qualified for coverage on the Children's Health Insurance Program, which serves low and middle income kids.

She was hoping to buy coverage for her husband, who is self-employed and has been without insurance coverage since March.

"Our insurance ended when I stopped working," Futcher says. "One of the hardest parts of being uninsured, for me as a parent, was I didn't feel like I was taking care of my kids. We've kind of been waiting for Obamacare to kick in."

Futcher knew that coverage under the Affordable Care Act didn't kick in until January and initially planned to wait a little bit to sign up. But after watching the federal government shutdown over the health law, she felt that signing up early would send a message to Republicans attempting to repeal the law.

"Originally it was only on my list of things to do by the end of the year," she says. "Seeing so many people sign up would hopefully show Republicans this is something the country needs."

As we spoke on the phone, Futcher kept an eye on her computer screen. It flipped from the message telling her she would have to wait -- to one that would let her log in to the system.

"Oh this is great!" Futcher exclaimed, before getting started on the enrollment process.

This is the kind of thing that is going to increasingly be stacked up against the GOP horseshit as well as the pony poo provided here by the likes of Debs, Rani, Justin, etc...

More misery on the horizon. Their tears make me smile.

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

Public option? Oh, no no no. That would be evil like communism. The Dems took that out way way back in the negotiations, long before the bill was passed the first time.

Forcing people to buy a private, overpriced product - that's what passes for liberalism in America.

So... it shouldn't be too surprising how much farther right our conservatives are from them.

We only have two mainstream choices in this country, the far right and the not as far right. So however we peel it, we get far right policies. Until we get corporate money out of politics, this is the way it will remain.

The younger generation is appearing to understand the corporate bought political system. As for the older generations, we appear stuck in the mire of whatever the PTB tell us.

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Ding ding ding. Which is why a lot of people on the left didn't like ACA from what I hear.

~Chas'88

It's the worst of the better options, compared to what we have had.

Give it a year, after the elections.

Note: I was *shocked, SHOCKED* I tell you to discover the Healtcare.gov site would be flooded today. It will be weeks before everyone gets enough data on copays, deductibles, providers, to get a general consensus. Suprisingly, this will be the time the default rolls around.

Not just the nerve the GOP and other haters were hoping for!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-with-traffic/

Obamacare’s marketplaces are overwhelmed with traffic

Last week, exchange directors were joking about what low volume they would see for enrollment Oct. 1; California's Obamacare head estimated two people would sign up on day one.

Maybe not: At least a few states right now are reporting pretty high traffic in their first few hours of business. New York has had more than 2 million visitors this morning, which is causing some trouble for people trying to sign up. To put that in perspective, New York has 2.5 million uninsured residents.

Magic ponies, magic unicorns, and the go-F-yourself nightmares report higher level of pure misery.
Makes me smile.

Just how much harder has it become to de-fund Obamacare in the last 4 hours? And with every hour that passes...

One gets the impression that Obamacare is ambitious but botched.

Political theater

I find it kind of ironic that the very program that the conservatives wrote, now are holding it hostage. Kind of like kidnapping your own family member and holding them for ransom. Crazy is as crazy does.

for playwrite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApDAJJONn9I

Just returning them to you.

Here's a one-pager on Obamacare -

http://www.donkeylicious.com/2013/09...care-week.html

- that includes this nifty flow chart



Next time someone from the Right tells you the ACA is taking over the world, keep this chart of around 80% not effected.

Next time someone from the Far Left tells you the ACA doesn't do enough, ask them who exactly they have in mind AND ask them what they're doing for the 2% SOL people in Red states that didn't get the Medicaid expansion.

Note the 1.5% people who have too much income to qualify for subsidies and the 2% that could have subsidies and both not getting insurance like everyone else. These are the people who will pay the penalty (like $65 the first year), but more importantly, they are the ones that will continue to go to the emergency rooms and help jack up the insurance rates for the rest of us. Aren't they just special.

Funny how people want to whine about these 3.5% that choose to be freeloaders and yet don't give a poop about the 2% that have no choice because they live in states run by troglodytes

Originally Posted by The Rani

It's interesting that ASA only works if younger, healthier folks buy insurance to pay for the older, sicker folks. I wonder how long it will take for the younguns to realize how badly they got screwed over here.

Sorry, misery, nobody is going to buy these unsupported assertions any more.

What young people are you EXACTLY talking about? Break it down and prove your point. Let me help you get started.

You're not talking about those under 26 years old that have now been on their parents' plan for over a year thanks to the ACA.

You're not talking about those that have incomes where the govt is going to completely subsidize all their premiums.

Are you talking about those young folks that can have REAL health insurance for about $80 a month, tons of preventative care particularly if a woman or for their babies, have caps on their OOP if they prove to be mortal after all?

Are you talking about the young folks that will be able to just buy catastrophic insurance that will be heavily regulated and monitored by the govt so that, you know, they'll actually pay for the young person's health bills should they come down with cancer or hit by a bus?

Or are you talking about the really dumbshit young people that won't even get any of this that is being handed to them on a silver platter?

Please clarify. Or is the problem that actual thinking makes you miserable?

Next time someone from the Right tells you the ACA is taking over the world, keep this chart of around 80% not effected.

affected. E is for the noun*.

Pet peeve.

*There are circumstances where "affect" can be a noun, and "effect" a transitive verb, but they're not really things one hears in normal conversation these days and this instance is not one of those exceptions.

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

affected. E is for the noun*.

Pet peeve.

*There are circumstances where "affect" can be a noun, and "effect" a transitive verb, but they're not really things one hears in normal conversation these days and this instance is not one of those exceptions.

Gracious.....

I thought so.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Sounds like in that case you will be dead so you won't have to worry about it anyway.
So what's up with all the public options that are supposed to be available, are they now on hold because of the government shutdown?

Other than Vermont, I haven't heard of any states with public options. Do you have them in CA?

http://m.theatlanticwire.com/politic...lthcare/70034/

Since the Senate rejected the House's government-funding resolution this afternoon, House Republicans are now discussing a proposal that would include the Vitter amendment, which would strip lawmakers and Hill staffers of federal contributions for their health insurance. Jonathan Strong at The National Review reports that House GOP staff was kicked out of the meeting about the new proposal, because — awkward — their bosses are talking about cutting their health care.
Sen. David Vitter has been pushing his amendment for weeks, much to the chagrin of Senate Democrats (and some Republicans, too). We noted on Thursday that it can't be fun to work for Vitter right now, or any other congressional Republican who supports this amendment. In the push to pass it, the GOP will almost surely shut down the government, which will leave staffers out on the street without pay. And it's all so those same staffers can get what is essentially a big pay cut: losing federal contributions for their health insurance.
As Patrick Brennan at The National Review explains, congressional employees are unique in that they must participate in Obamacare exchanges — the result of an amendment originally proposed by Sen. Chuck Grassley and later embraced by Democrats. That amendment made it clear, however, that the government should still make contributions to the insurance.
The National Review's Katrina Trinko reports the House will vote on the amendment on Monday, according to Rep. Ron DeSantis. But Rep. Don Young doesn't think there are enough votes to pass it. House Speaker John Boehner made it clear on Monday afternoon that there would not be a "clean" continuing resolution — meaning there would likely be some kind of Obamacare-related amendment attached.
Sen. Ted Cruz previously advocated to expand the Vitter amendment to include all federal employees, like D.C. teachers and police officers. The new GOP message sure doesn't make for an uplifting work environment: nobody should get healthcare, and in the meantime, nobody gets paid.

Originally Posted by The Rani

It's funny how The Best Healthcare That Money Can Buy (i.e. the more money you spend the better care you get) is a concept so drilled into American brains that most people never question the underlying assumption.
ETA: Another one is "the more care you get, the healthier you are."

It's hard to be flip if you need a quadruple bypass, and the no-insurance affordability is outside the OOP class ... at least for me. If I was one of the Koch brothers, I'd just write a check. As it is, I'mrelying on health insurance.

Originally Posted by Deb C

We only have two mainstream choices in this country, the far right and the not as far right. So however we peel it, we get far right policies. Until we get corporate money out of politics, this is the way it will remain.

The younger generation is appearing to understand the corporate bought political system. As for the older generations, we appear stuck in the mire of whatever the PTB tell us.

Yes of course, perfect is alwasy ideal, but until the change happens, life goes on. We might see something really good post-2016, but that's 3+ years of waiting. So use the band-aid available for now, and be thankful that there is one at all ... after 100 years, something that beats nothing at all. Just don't kill it. Teddy Kenedy did that for much the same reason, and we've waited 40+ years to get back to that same place today.

Originally Posted by TimWalker

One gets the impression that Obamacare is ambitious but botched.

Not botched so much as flawed. Actually, something this big will alwasy be flawed in the beginning.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Yes of course, perfect is alwasy ideal, but until the change happens, life goes on. We might see something really good post-2016, but that's 3+ years of waiting. So use the band-aid available for now, and be thankful that there is one at all ... after 100 years, something that beats nothing at all. Just don't kill it. Teddy Kenedy did that for much the same reason, and we've waited 40+ years to get back to that same place today.

The Kennedys always were bad at go/no go decisions in the airplane. Or car.

Originally Posted by The Rani

It's interesting that ASA only works if younger, healthier folks buy insurance to pay for the older, sicker folks. I wonder how long it will take for the younguns to realize how badly they got screwed over here.

I know you have no sense of community, but any other option is unworkable. Now you may be bullet proof, so you'll never need the insurance, but the actuaries know that there is a large crrowd that will. Most are older, but not all. Of those least able to pay if things go wrong, the young are the most vulnerable if also the least likely to need help.

So there it is. The young can participate now with a small chance that they will need what they're buying, or they can pay the penalty. Most will dodge the bullet, because they're young and healthy ... but not all. On the other hand, they will need the coverage later in life, and a refusal to help when they are young will be rewarded in like manner when they get old.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

The young can participate now with a small chance that they will need what they're buying, or they can pay the penalty. Most will dodge the bullet, because they're young and healthy ... but not all. On the other hand, they will need the coverage later in life, and a refusal to help when they are young will be rewarded in like manner when they get old.

Young people need to do this, they need to do that. They need to pay Social Security taxes to cohorts with more wealth than themselves. They need to pay for their fair share of the healthcare they don't use. They need to pay more for their own college education, even if it means mortgaging their entire career's earnings.

They need to fix everything and they need to quit complaining about the fact that we haven't provided them with any resources or incomes with which to do it.

Spoiled, ungrateful brats, don't they know we're making them take care of us for their own good?

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

affected. E is for the noun*.

Pet peeve.

*There are circumstances where "affect" can be a noun, and "effect" a transitive verb, but they're not really things one hears in normal conversation these days and this instance is not one of those exceptions.

You'll be needing a few of these:


Available in multiple collors and languages.

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

Young people need to do this, they need to do that. They need to pay Social Security taxes to cohorts with more wealth than themselves. They need to pay for their fair share of the healthcare they don't use. They need to pay more for their own college education, even if it means mortgaging their entire career's earnings.

They need to fix everything and they need to quit complaining about the fact that we haven't provided them with any resources or incomes with which to do it.

Spoiled, ungrateful brats, don't they know we're making them take care of us for their own good?

Just a hint: we all carried water too. A further hint: failure to keep the SS system going (and now the health system) may default to a dealth sentence in your elder years. I hear the same ideas floating around that lead to 2-tier union jobs and contribution-free retirement plans, that are now broke.

But you have more than a small point about jobs with real pay. They crashed with the rise of supply-side economics, and aren't likley to recover unless you demand it. Pushing through Obamacare before funding jobs was bad thinking, but killing it now would be worse. Just be careful what you wish for. Bad could get worse. There are plenty trying to make that happen, and not enough to move it the other way ... yet.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Available in multiple collors and languages.

Colors. Or possibly colours, but not really.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Just a hint: we all carried water too. A further hint: failure to keep the SS system going (and now the health system) may default to a dealth sentence in your elder years. I hear the same ideas floating around that lead to 2-tier union jobs and contribution-free retirement plans, that are now broke.

Oh yeah? Median young boomers were paying 15% gross in payroll? 10% gross in student loans (after "reform")? 8% gross for health insurance premiums, just to have deductibles equal to 25% of income?

"Suck it up millies, it's just a little bit of political corruption here and there. Paying tribute to our corporate overlords is a collective responsibility and creates a greater good than us peons can recognize."

But you have more than a small point about jobs with real pay. They crashed with the rise of supply-side economics, and aren't likley to recover unless you demand it. Pushing through Obamacare before funding jobs was bad thinking, but killing it now would be worse. Just be careful what you wish for. Bad could get worse. There are plenty trying to make that happen, and not enough to move it the other way ... yet.

The only group that seems happy with today's premium numbers and exchange roll-out is Wall Street (and their local spokesperson, PW). The most politically connected insurers are up 2-3% since yesterday's close. Everyone else is looking for someone to blame: Republicans who didn't take advantage of Medicaid expansion, Democrats who got the ball rolling and kept pushing even after it became obvious that the bill was a disaster, old people who think it's just lazy young people/minorities/immigrants who looking for a handout and/or are complaining about paying their fair share (of the costs incurred by said old people).

Everyone's got someone to blame, everyone's got some reason to dismiss everyone else's concerns, hell, we just shut down the government... but goddamn it, by hell or high water, them investors are gonna get paid.

And no, there are still no jobs. Quit acting so entitled with your bachelor's degree and lengthy resume of unpaid and underpaid internships.