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Thread: It's time for national healthcare - Page 185







Post#4601 at 10-07-2013 04:42 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
It's a 1T/2T dream in any case. Stick around. You're still young enough to make it to Mars and die there. That seesm to be the plan for Mars Manned Mission 1 ... and the following two or three, I'll wager.
Politics/economics are not the only barriers, dude. It's probably not happening in my lifetime, if ever.

There's not really a lot of "there" there, if you know what i mean. Leaving alone things like peak oil.







Post#4602 at 10-07-2013 06:25 PM by Alioth68 [at Minnesota joined Apr 2010 #posts 693]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
Politics/economics are not the only barriers, dude. It's probably not happening in my lifetime, if ever.

There's not really a lot of "there" there, if you know what i mean. Leaving alone things like peak oil.
I think Peak Metals (particularly rare-Earth stuff) may compel some venture capitalists to seek an asteroid--maybe towing a relatively small one into near-Earth orbit--before we have men on Mars.

Robert Zubrin has proposed a seemingly feasible plan for bootstrapping eventual permanent settlement on Mars. Maybe not in our lifetimes, though. I still have the dream--disappointed as I am that what was once in my childhood considered an inevitability by the turn of this century didn't happen--that it still could, and if we're smart, should, happen. I firmly believe that we should strive to put some of our eggs in another basket. We of course won't have truly arrived until we settle a terrestrial planet (that can actually support masses of people) around another star. I'm reading the Coyote trilogy by Allen Steele and have rekindled that dream once more. I think either something like that has to happen eventually, or else we'll stagnate on this planet and probably destroy ourselves. Maybe the various religious concepts of "heaven" are a metaphor for this too... those who "pass" go to the stars ("the heavens"). (Could end up being a 2T theme at some point.) Whatever your spiritual beliefs are though, we Earthlings know (and will continue to know more) what's around us--I know eventually we'll find a way to get there (unless we fuck up and destroy ourselves first).

(Yes, I'm one of those space-bullish people. And I understand what all the obstacles are... but still, I believe we will, and must, do it .)
Last edited by Alioth68; 10-07-2013 at 06:41 PM.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword." --Kosh Naranek
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"rationalizing...is never clear thinking." --SM Kovalinsky







Post#4603 at 10-07-2013 06:44 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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As long as you understand that that is a belief, part of the cult of progress, and not a realistic evaluation of scientific or technological trends.







Post#4604 at 10-07-2013 06:50 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
As long as you understand that that is a belief, part of the cult of progress, and not a realistic evaluation of scientific or technological trends.
Continued manned spaceflight is largely unproductive. I think the trend is going to be, more and more, bringing space to us through robotics. Not as romantic, but way more profitable, less dangerous, and healthier.







Post#4605 at 10-07-2013 06:53 PM by Alioth68 [at Minnesota joined Apr 2010 #posts 693]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
As long as you understand that that is a belief, part of the cult of progress, and not a realistic evaluation of scientific or technological trends.
Sure. But who a century ago would predict (or extrapolate based on technological trends of the day) what we've come up with today?

I do think that, barring events that would terminate (or vastly diminish) our existence on Earth, as time goes on our chances of finding a way to get to those places we continue to discover and know are there will approach 1:1. Unless the way we are hardwired radically changes and we lose that explorative curiosity and drive that has always been with us. Probably will take more than one century, maybe a few. I guess I hope progress wins the race over destruction--but that's what hope is. I know it may not.
Last edited by Alioth68; 10-07-2013 at 06:58 PM.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword." --Kosh Naranek
"...Your side, my side, and the truth." --John Sheridan

"No more half-measures." --Mike Ehrmantraut

"rationalizing...is never clear thinking." --SM Kovalinsky







Post#4606 at 10-07-2013 07:11 PM by Alioth68 [at Minnesota joined Apr 2010 #posts 693]
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It may very well be "post-humans" that actually do it though. All the biological barriers would be lifted in that case--but uploaded human consciousness would still get to experience it.

That, or genetically modified but still fleshly humans.

I'm still hoping for it to be fleshly (genetically-modified or not) humans though... a chance to reproduce and proliferate and create new, unique (or distinct--mindful of the whole "are individuals unique" controversy in another thread), and unpredicted life in new places.

Yes, space is the one place I still allow my dreams to run wild .
Last edited by Alioth68; 10-07-2013 at 07:20 PM.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword." --Kosh Naranek
"...Your side, my side, and the truth." --John Sheridan

"No more half-measures." --Mike Ehrmantraut

"rationalizing...is never clear thinking." --SM Kovalinsky







Post#4607 at 10-07-2013 07:15 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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A fair number of people, actually, it was the social stuff they missed completely.

When I am at the computer I can send you some links, but in the meantime what you are basically reciting right now is a catechism, which is cool, as long as you know that.







Post#4608 at 10-08-2013 08:57 AM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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The obvious answer to Fermi's paradox, based on our understanding of physics, is that interstellar travel isn't really possible on any meaningful scale or timeframe.







Post#4609 at 10-08-2013 09:41 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
We'll be like the alien species in Independence Day, moving from planet to planet and sucking up all the natural resources.
For the sake of The Universe, I hope we stay put.
For the sake of our own planet, I hope we learn to take care of it!
That sounds like our economic elites.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#4610 at 10-08-2013 10:11 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
You've not only failed to improve your accuracy on the third point...
Slippery worm caught -

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
... To be correct, you would state the third point as something along the lines of: "Person only exists in a social context".
It's your own words, dude! It's a minor point, but it does demonstrate how slippery you are. You are likely not even conscious of your own inconsistencies. It's a little scary actually, but at the same time, pretty damn entertaining!

However, we did at least get some clarity here on your belief system -

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
  • a monopoly on the rightful initiation of force is neither necessary nor desirable (arguably, there's no such thing as a rightful initiation of force, but that's a bit of a tangential issue)
  • The concept of "property" is meaningless without some context for exclusion
  • "Person" can only exist in a social context, and does not exist absent one.
How is "exclusion" enforced if you have two parties disagree over who excludes whom? I believe upstream you answered this yourself that it is done by force, but given your occasional short memory loss -

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...my own contra-Rand view regarding that second point as something along the lines, "property is a function of a context for enforcing exclusion". That context need not be government, and need not be monopoly -- it goes all the way down to "this stick is mine because it's in my closed (that is, not immediately accessible to anybody else) hand".
Your basic "might makes right" notion, no? "Right" being not only the exclusive use, but the very definition, of property - whether that be land, food, water or other human beings, correct?

And given that you believe -

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...a monopoly on the rightful initiation of force is neither necessary nor desirable
- you put that question of "might" into the hands of the individual ("Annie, get my gun, our property is trying to make a break for it again!") or whatever like-minded gang or militia one could muster in support ("boys, break out the armor, those dudes have come back to try to take back their women!), yes?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4611 at 10-08-2013 10:19 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
Agreed, but low taxes/cost of living and a scant social safety net have been features of much of the Sunbelt for generations, and yet people moved there from the North in droves. Like I said, I don't think ObamaCare is likely to reverse the push/pull factors. Doesn't mean that things will carry on as is ad infinitum, but I don't think the health insurance thing alone is going to change it.
We'll see

Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
Gah, I'm getting pulled in.
Life is full of choices. Choose wisely.



Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
No, but are these (highly educated and exhaustively trained) people really necessary to perform most healthcare functions? How about the extent to which these people's salaries are inflated by education requirements + the capping by Medicare of the number of residency slots offered each year?

This is the type of stuff I think of when I think about "bloat in the system", among other things. A regulation that all cars have seatbelts and airbags is one thing, a mandate that the bulk of vehicles on the road be BMWs (with a cap in the growth of vehicles per year, subsidies to help a fraction of the poor pay for BMWs, certain BMW-only roads, etc.) quite something else. If I may be permitted an analogy.
I don't have any problem with any of this - at least as a departure point for further assessment.

I'm about introducing reality into discussions, and that includes helping those with really bizarre notions of where to lay blame. A great deal of forces are constantly at work trying to sell bizarre notions of blame to the masses - I consider myself a beacon of reality for those that have even the slightest hint of a still opened mind.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4612 at 10-08-2013 11:14 AM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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I doubt that I will be around when the first astronauts (cosmonauts?) reach Mars. (Heck, maybe governments will choose an easier goal instead, like Venus) To industrialize space in a big way-to get out into the solar system beyond initial exploration-will require a much more efficient means of launching into orbit. There are a number of theoretical concepts, Once in orbit, tethers and light sails and aerobraking will take us as far out as Mars.. I have thought of a title for such an era-The Big Breakout Into Space. However, it does not seem imminent. For the 21st century my grandest hope is asteroid mining-replentishing supplies for such materials as platinum group metals and rare earth elements.







Post#4613 at 10-08-2013 11:14 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Slippery worm caught -



It's your own words, dude! It's a minor point, but it does demonstrate how slippery you are. You are likely not even conscious of your own inconsistencies.
That's a funny thing for a liar to say in a context where any reader has only to scroll upwards to expose his lies. I have to say, I'm terribly impressed by the strength and resilience of your anti-introspection/context force shield.

How is "exclusion" enforced if you have two parties disagree over who excludes whom? I believe upstream you answered this yourself that it is done by force, but given your occasional short memory loss -
...my own contra-Rand view regarding that second point as something along the lines, "property is a function of a context for enforcing exclusion". That context need not be government, and need not be monopoly -- it goes all the way down to "this stick is mine because it's in my closed (that is, not immediately accessible to anybody else) hand".
You lie in everything you say. My offhand example of a most basic form of exclusion does not represent The Other Way for exclusion to happen, nor does anything I wrote imply that. It is, rather, an other way. You lie.
That fully established, one example (for the sake of making your future lies on this point that much easier to expose, I'll comment right now that this is also not The Other Way, but rather a single example illustrative of the existence of more than one category of solution) of a non-violent means of exclusion would be when both parties who might disagree over a particular something both elect to submit to the judgement of some third party known to them and whose judgement they both respect sufficiently to commit to submitting to it voluntarily. Real-world examples of this abound, so when you try your customary dodge of 'magic pony land', know that it too is already exposed as a lie.

Your basic "might makes right" notion, no? "Right" being not only the exclusive use, but the very definition, of property - whether that be land, food, water or other human beings, correct?
Incorrect. See above, and everything else I've ever written (that is, explicitly excluding the things you make up and then claim were "what Justin's words actually mean").

The rest of your post, relying and building as it does on a now-explicitly-exposed lie from you, becomes clearly irrelevant. Feel free to try again to make your point, without starting out lying this time. I wish you the best of luck on that journey of self-improvement.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc tre dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce tre dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#4614 at 10-08-2013 11:28 AM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Fermi's Paradox is still unanswered. As for instellar travel, even "slowboats" seem to require technology and resources far beyond the present. Launch of the first expeditions will likely be centuries in the future. If slowboats prove workable there may be a scenario similar to the Polynesians-over a long time they settled islands across the Pacific. However, these settlements were isolated from each other in the vastness of the Pacific. As for FTL, we don't even know if that is possible. If it is, it seems to require the super technology of a super civilization.
Last edited by TimWalker; 10-08-2013 at 11:31 AM.







Post#4615 at 10-08-2013 11:30 AM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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I am grateful that exoplanets can now be detected. It had been my understanding that such was nearly impossible.







Post#4616 at 10-08-2013 11:47 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
That's a funny thing for a liar to say in a context where any reader has only to scroll upwards to expose his lies. I have to say, I'm terribly impressed by the strength and resilience of your anti-introspection/context force shield.
Let me try to say this as gentle as possible - Dude, those were your own words.

Does Gollum tells you that Master lied and is trickse? Poor Smeagol, poor Spiegel.

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
You lie in everything you say. My offhand example of a most basic form of exclusion does not represent The Other Way for exclusion to happen, nor does anything I wrote imply that. It is, rather, an other way. You lie.
That fully established, one example (for the sake of making your future lies on this point that much easier to expose, I'll comment right now that this is also not The Other Way, but rather a single example illustrative of the existence of more than one category of solution)
I have no idea what you are trying to communicate there. What you said is not what you wanted to say, but you said it anyway because that would show me to be a liar by repeating what you said as being what you said? Odd.

Also, "The Other Way" - is that from Scientology or some cult or something? Have you considered the possibility that you may be going into full meltdown?


Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
of a non-violent means of exclusion would be when both parties who might disagree over a particular something both elect to submit to the judgement of some third party known to them and whose judgement they both respect sufficiently to commit to submitting to it voluntarily. Real-world examples of this abound, so when you try your customary dodge of 'magic pony land', know that it too is already exposed as a lie.
I think you asked the obvious question and trying very very hard not to let the only answer enter into your full consciousness. Still, doesn't it bother you just a tad that you can't pinpoint your magical land on anyone else's map?

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
Incorrect. See above, and everything else I've ever written (that is, explicitly excluding the things you make up and then claim were "what Justin's words actually mean").

The rest of your post, relying and building as it does on a now-explicitly-exposed lie from you, becomes clearly irrelevant. Feel free to try again to make your point, without starting out lying this time. I wish you the best of luck on that journey of self-improvement.
Yes, Spiegel, Master's been tricksee, using your own words to confuse you - very bad Master.
Master will leave you alone now. Now go find some nice Sushi to beat and sing to.
And Smeagol, try to calm down.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4617 at 10-08-2013 01:25 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Tim et al,

The Polynesians are not a good metaphor of interstellar travel. The distances involved are not even vaguely a like, even allowing for travel at some non-trivial fraction of the speed of light. In-system, with fusion or something? Maybe, but you still haven't solved the issue of there being no "there" there, as it were.

And the whole asteroid mining thing, too, is more than a bit unrealistic barring the invention of... magic. Here are a good couple of articles explaining some of the issues confronting the idea.







Post#4618 at 10-08-2013 01:27 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Life is full of choices. Choose wisely.
Right? I totally have better things to be doing right now, and yet here I am.

I don't have any problem with any of this - at least as a departure point for further assessment.

I'm about introducing reality into discussions, and that includes helping those with really bizarre notions of where to lay blame. A great deal of forces are constantly at work trying to sell bizarre notions of blame to the masses - I consider myself a beacon of reality for those that have even the slightest hint of a still opened mind.
Whatever gets you through the day, man. I just couldn't help pointing out that relying on Doctors making six figure salaries for the bulk of our medical care is a choice, not a natural law. Not necessarily a very good one, either.







Post#4619 at 10-08-2013 02:11 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed;
...Whatever gets you through the day, man. I just couldn't help pointing out that relying on Doctors making six figure salaries for the bulk of our medical care is a choice, not a natural law. Not necessarily a very good one, either.
That is a common viewpoint....until one gets a brain tumor of course.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4620 at 10-08-2013 02:13 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
That is a common viewpoint....until one gets a brain tumor of course.
Don't be obtuse. Brain tumors do not constitute "the bulk of our medical care".







Post#4621 at 10-08-2013 02:58 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
Don't be obtuse. Brain tumors do not constitute "the bulk of our medical care".
I'm assuming we adopt the clinic model pretty much as a universal. Your point of entry into the system will be a Triage Nurse (assuming trama or other critical event) or a PA/NP. If the issue is critical, then followong triage, the ER doc starts the process, with consulting and hand-off as needed. This is similar to the ER today, so this model will not change much. For other care, the POE person will provide a preliminary diagnosis, and start the care process by providing a fast referral (i.e. within an hour). The first referral may be an Internist, if the issue is approriate for that level care, there is the potential for needing a team, or any other reason it makes sense. Otherwise, the referral will be direct (i.e. broken leg goes to orthopedics).

To work well and cheaply, almost all procedures will be out-patieint based. Major surgeries or disease treatment will be handled in facilities that do that a lot. Assume the model will be simpler in less urban areas. Transport of non-critical patients may be needed ... or not.

Assume doctors will not like this ... unless they graduate directly into the system. Private practice will be rare.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#4622 at 10-08-2013 03:27 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Let me try to say this as gentle as possible - Dude, those were your own words.
Liar.

My words (original post):

""Person" can only exist in a social context"

What the liar says were my words (original post)

"a person only exist within a social context"

There's a significant and meaningful difference between 'a person' and the concept of "Person" (which is what the capitalization and scare quotes in mine are the standard-usage way of indicating). The only conceivable way you could claim those are substantively the same (other than lying) is to wholly disregard the very significant difference between them. For a supposed writer, you sure seem to be haphazard and sloppy with your language, if the charitable interpretation is to be taken.

There's inconsistency, to be sure... but it appears to be largely a result of the slapdash way you have with words, their meanings, and how they are used. It's inimical to good communication, so I try to take care not to do it myself. It would be helpful if you would do the same -- choose your words deliberately, and read the words other people write thoughfully. English is a good language for deliberate communication -- we have so very many different words (to say nothing of our time-grammar!) to be able to convey the precise meaning and sense of most every thought we might want to share. Try to use it.

I have no idea what you are trying to communicate there.
Clearly. Try drinking less, or taking your medication. Then slow down and read every word. I'll wait...

...

...

Got it?
I said exactly what I intended to say -- that my example was not the only alternative to a binary choice (as you lied and claimed it was). What I said did not change between the original saying and the clarification that you refused to read. Go back and read it again. Thoughfully and deliberately. I'll wait.


...


...

...

Alright then. Onward.


I think you asked the obvious question and trying very very hard not to let the only answer enter into your full consciousness. Still, doesn't it bother you just a tad that you can't pinpoint your magical land on anyone else's map?
So you're going to use your magic pony dodge. It still manages to be slightly gratifying when I call your exact lies before you even deploy them. Experience, it seems, is a good teacher to those who will learn from it .


In intermediate-summation: you, playwrite, are a demonstrated liar. You lie explicitly, you lie implicitly, you lie by omission, you lie in attempts at clever turns-of-phrase. You continue to lie here, even when the means of exposing your lies is immediately at-hand for you and any other person reading them.
Last edited by Justin '77; 10-08-2013 at 03:33 PM. Reason: added wik link for "capitonym" -- my new word for the day!
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc tre dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce tre dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#4623 at 10-08-2013 03:40 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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M & L,
Pretty much. I imagine it being a lot like how it is in that notoriously socialist institution, the military. There are clinics, that handle most people's needs. From there, you get referred to a hospital. Hopefully, more of them will adopt the integrated model pioneered by places like the Mayo clinic. Young doctors are already moving towards a hospital/institutional model anyways. Fewer and fewer private practices each year. The only need for a primary care physician is as a supervisor of multiple clinics, if that. Personally, the only role I see for the fed. Gov. is in regulation and the provision of baseline insurance. Most of these things are happening already. And if your local clinic happens to be in a school, a mall, or a WalMart? Who cares.
Last edited by JordanGoodspeed; 10-08-2013 at 03:42 PM.







Post#4624 at 10-08-2013 03:46 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
Tim et al,

The Polynesians are not a good metaphor of interstellar travel. The distances involved are not even vaguely a like, even allowing for travel at some non-trivial fraction of the speed of light. In-system, with fusion or something? Maybe, but you still haven't solved the issue of there being no "there" there, as it were.
The point of the Polynesian metaphor is that their settlements were too isolated from each other to form a unified community (given dug out canoes). Without FTL, you cannot create a unified society across interstellar distances.







Post#4625 at 10-08-2013 03:52 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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10-08-2013, 03:52 PM #4625
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
M & L,
Pretty much. I imagine it being a lot like how it is in that notoriously socialist institution, the military. There are clinics, that handle most people's needs. From there, you get referred to a hospital. Hopefully, more of them will adopt the integrated model pioneered by places like the Mayo clinic. Young doctors are already moving towards a hospital/institutional model anyways. Fewer and fewer private practices each year. The only need for a primary care physician is as a supervisor of multiple clinics, if that. Personally, the only role I see for the fed. Gov. is in regulation and the provision of baseline insurance. Most of these things are happening already. And if your local clinic happens to be in a school, a mall, or a WalMart? Who cares.
For awhile in the 80s, the Doc-In-a-Box model was popular. The Box could be almost anywhere. Malls were popular locations.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
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