Originally Posted by Danilynn

Just an observation. I'm probably going to be called ignorant. but oh, well.

Remember in the 70's and early 80's how few obese people were around? Most everyone was slimmer, kids ate just as much junk food when given a chance then too. Drank cokes on occasion, had candy bars. Had cupcakes at school functions, and drank sweetened sugar loaded kool-aide. Remember the Kool-aide mascot? So what changed?

Real sugar was used, not the corn fructose stuff. Kids were allowed to be kids, play outside, hell in some cases told to go outside. ride bikes and skateboards without over-bearing adults legislating all the fun right out of play.

Being fat in the 80's was not socially acceptable, however, smoking was. Result, you really didn't see a whole lot of really obese or morbidly obese people. There might have been 1 or 2 kids per school, not class, the whole school that were fat.
Now you see the inverse of that, smoking has been ostracized and demonized, as it should have been all along. If you choose to, have a ball. If not good on you. But now obese gets lip service, and has been made socially acceptable.

Real sugar is mostly gone from foods and drinks unless you make them at home. Which has also changed, no one seems to make/cook foods from scratch anymore.

This is not going to win me any friends, but here goes, in for a pence in for a pound.

I wear a size 4. ( 15 years ago at the same size as now, I wore a 6 sometimes an 8. Clothing has gotten bigger but sizes have been changed to say smaller. Don't believe it? find some old dress patterns from the 70's and check the measurements given for size against what's given today) It used to be easier 15 years ago to find that size clothing. Now, it's easier to find size 12/14/16/18 women's clothes. I know this first hand from shopping with a larger friend of over a decade. Used to be easier when we went shopping for me to find clothes, now more often than not she has better luck finding clothes. It's almost a complete reversal of where it was for us back then. More often than not if I find clothes in my size they are marketed for teenagers.

My husband is on the small side too. We ended up having to specially order his last suit. Because no store around here carried a size 30 waist ( he actually needs a 28, but that's not ever happened) with a 34 length.

Plates have gotten larger. My mom still has the dishes she bought new in 1979. the dinner plates from that set are about the size of the salad/sandwich plate in the set I bought 4 years ago. So what seems a serving size has gotten skewed. Sidewalks have disappeared from most areas built in residential areas after the 70's. Drive around sometime if you aren't in a large metropolis like NYC and observe this.

It has become ok to pick on one bad habit like smoking, and point out the detrimental stuff from it, but never ever say the same about obesity, because then you are shaming the person by the pc crowd. In the same time frame I have referenced I have noticed it seems to be perfectly ok though to say awful things to/about women who aren't overweight.

I've observed many similar things. A slim woman is now looked at as being anorexic, but everyone else is always on a diet. Then there's the "you don't like food." When I was thin, (which I am not anymore. Ah, menopause, gotta love it. Not obese, either, though), people used to say that kind of stuff to me. In my 20s in the 80s, I was 5'2" and 105lbs and wore a size 8 petite. Now, I'm still the same height but 25 pounds heavier. I still wear a size 8 petite. In 1951, my mom was 5'4" and 98lbs. She wore a size 8.

In the late 80s when taking a trip in the Caribbean, I noticed the coca-cola tasted more like what I remembered as a child. It had real sugar! That's the taste I remembered. Now, cane sugar isn't all that great for you in huge quantities, but what I noticed was one glass with cane sugar was satisfying. You were done, even in the heat.

Do you notice the size of cupcakes now? They're huge. Cookies, too. I have my mom's old recipe box and the portions are much smaller. I'm grateful my mom who loved to cook and was excellent at it. She was creative and experimental. Plus, cooking put her in a good mood. I don't recall how much she actually taught me, but you learn by hanging out and watching. We always had salad and a vegetable at dinner along with the main course and the veggies were cooked perfectly. We ate meals together as a family, which is more difficult now. Both my brothers and I are pretty good cooks (and my late sister was, too). Well, I'm passable and know what a good, balanced meal is and can make it.

Nearly all of my friends, both male and female and with and without kids, cook at home. We make dinner for each other much more often than we go out to eat. It saves money, of course, but it's also just great to have an enjoyable meal, cook together (if that's what people want to do, some prefer to be left alone to cook), and relax at someone's house. The food seems to taste better, too.

I smoked for years and loved smoking. I really, really, really did. And I liked the camaraderie. But seeing my father die of emphysema finally got me to quit after many practice runs. And he really, really, really liked smoking, too, although he'd quit 10 years before he got sick. The viciousness and personal attacks toward smokers is just bs superiority crap. It's not like smokers are coming into your house and lighting up. Most smokers are very polite about it.

Originally Posted by The Rani

I don't think this is a secret. I "shrank" from a size 10-12 to 2-4 over the last 30 years, and I've got female friends who have noticed the same thing.
Of course, I've got other friends who still wear a 12 and are fooled into thinking they're same size as 20-30 years ago!

See my post above. Damn, I wish I could be fooled. But the scale tells me different.

High fructose corn syrup is basically the same thing as sugar, just from a different source. The malts I use to make beer are very similar as well. None of these things are great for a person in heavy doses. If I drank beer at the same rate many folks I know drink soda, I'd be dead of alcohol poisoning. However, much of what I've read about obesity is that the primary difference between the obese and healthy weight folks is sleep habits, and it's only about an hour a night difference. Sleep is a huge factor to overall health and our society has gone to this high stimulus, high stress affair, and guess what that affects most?

This also mirrors experience. When I worked a split shift, I had a very difficult time sleeping, and half the time I was only sleeping 2-3 hours a night. When I first moved over to all nights, I almost immediately lost about 40 pounds. Like within six months. More add time has gone on, I've adjusted to the schedule and I'm averaging 5 or 6 hours instead of 7 or 8 and I've put about 20 back on.

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

I totally get that smoking is a useless and destructive vice, and that there are costs associated with that choice, but why do we have to pick it out as the only choice a person is expected to take responsibility for when it comes to their health?

Well I don't know that I would describe it as "useless". Smoking (or more accurately, consuming nicotine) relieves anxiety and depression and has negative side-effects that generally manifest on a scale of decades (depending on frequency of use of course). There are tons of prescribed pharmaceuticals that are less effective with arguably more adverse and more immediate side-effects.

It's important to understand your own body, understand the benefits and impacts of the things you put into it and own your decisions. The costs in dollar terms are just fabrications that bean-counters use to justify their own existence. You shouldn't take them seriously.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Did those studies account for differences in caloric intake and exercise levels, and do you have any links?

Yes, and not from the stuff I read which was cited across several books, but here's a blurb from the deluge of confirming links and news articles I found when googling "sleep and weight loss":
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sle...t-gain/AN02178

It's from the Mayo clinic, and as a full disclosure the reason I chose it was because I like the song "@n@rchy Bob at the Mayo Clinic" by Boris the Sprinkler off the album 8 Testicled Pogo Machine.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Sorry, I phrased my question badly. I was wondering if the differences in weight was independent of differences in caloric intake and exercise, and from that link it looks like the answer is "no" ---

It doesn't look like the mayo clinic thinks so. I've seen analysis which seemed to infer both that it was independent and that it was dependant. The overall impression I get is that sleep accounts for most of the weight deviation statistically as in the studies being cited did survey diet and exercise habits, and statistically the significant deviation was an hour of sleep a night more for the folks in a healthy weight range.

Now, do I think it's reasonable to test this by consuming 3000 calories a day on average and making sure I get my 8 hours in? Obviously not.

Originally Posted by Kepi

High fructose corn syrup is basically the same thing as sugar, just from a different source. The malts I use to make beer are very similar as well. None of these things are great for a person in heavy doses. If I drank beer at the same rate many folks I know drink soda, I'd be dead of alcohol poisoning. However, much of what I've read about obesity is that the primary difference between the obese and healthy weight folks is sleep habits, and it's only about an hour a night difference. Sleep is a huge factor to overall health and our society has gone to this high stimulus, high stress affair, and guess what that affects most?

This also mirrors experience. When I worked a split shift, I had a very difficult time sleeping, and half the time I was only sleeping 2-3 hours a night. When I first moved over to all nights, I almost immediately lost about 40 pounds. Like within six months. More add time has gone on, I've adjusted to the schedule and I'm averaging 5 or 6 hours instead of 7 or 8 and I've put about 20 back on.

I now that chemically HFCS it's the same, but dammit, it tastes different. And we human animals notice it. It has a different texture, smoothness. At a completely unprovable and visceral level, I know it's different. ;]

Originally Posted by Copperfield

Well I don't know that I would describe it as "useless". Smoking (or more accurately, consuming nicotine) relieves anxiety and depression and has negative side-effects that generally manifest on a scale of decades (depending on frequency of use of course). There are tons of prescribed pharmaceuticals that are less effective with arguably more adverse and more immediate side-effects.

It's important to understand your own body, understand the benefits and impacts of the things you put into it and own your decisions. The costs in dollar terms are just fabrications that bean-counters use to justify their own existence. You shouldn't take them seriously.

In one of my many attempts to quit smoking, I read a book by a guy who had compiled studies about the advantages of nicotine. It appeared to benefit dealing with frustration. It actually does seem to have positive psychological properties. For me, it was: feel bad? Have a cigarette. Sad? Have a cigarette. Need a break? Have a cigarette. Relaxing? Have a cigarette. Having fun? Have a cigarette. Thinking about something? Have a cigarette.

And the best. Finished with your meal? Have. A. Cigarette. With a cup of coffee.

Here's a brief scene from "Wings of Desire," one of my favorite movies. It was remade into a POS called City of Angels. But the original is based on Rainer Maria Rilke's concept of angels. In this story, angels live in libraries, on clock towers. They help humans and live in black and white This scene has Peter Falk, playing himself and he's shooting a film. Bruno Gantz is an angel, invisible, although Falk knows he's there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cssUBCMifUY

Originally Posted by annla899

I now that chemically HFCS it's the same, but dammit, it tastes different. And we human animals notice it. It has a different texture, smoothness. At a completely unprovable and visceral level, I know it's different. ;]

It does taste different, it's the reason I won't brew with HFCS. That doesn't make HFCS better or worse for you than other sugars, it just doesn't taste as good.

Originally Posted by Danilynn

Just an observation. I'm probably going to be called ignorant. but oh, well.

Remember in the 70's and early 80's how few obese people were around? Most everyone was slimmer, kids ate just as much junk food when given a chance then too. Drank cokes on occasion, had candy bars. Had cupcakes at school functions, and drank sweetened sugar loaded kool-aide. Remember the Kool-aide mascot? So what changed?

Real sugar was used, not the corn fructose stuff. Kids were allowed to be kids, play outside, hell in some cases told to go outside. ride bikes and skateboards without over-bearing adults legislating all the fun right out of play.

I'd say you're right that we kids back in our day were more active (certainly more free to roam around, ride our bikes all over the place, etc.), and that's one difference. I also think fast food was less of a routine thing as well--at least for me growing up, McDonald's or Burger King (those were the main two back then) was more of a special treat than a quick convenient way to pick up supper after a long day at work, or an expectation of the kids if you drove past one. Pop was also something you didn't buy by the case--a couple bottles (remember the glass bottles?) in the fridge, and you got to drink one (or half of one in a glass) if you behaved particularly well--again, a treat. Yes I was a latchkey kid, but I didn't have money to go to the McDonalds, and had to eat what was available in the kitchen and fridge--mainly leftovers, or mac and cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches, fried eggs, bananas.... But even living with a single mom during the divorce, she still cooked a balanced home-cooked meal (with veggies or salad) most nights--it was good economics as well. And I learned to cook simple but decent stuff too, when I had to cook supper for me and my little sister.

I've heard said that if you want to eat healthily, shop only along the perimeter of the grocery store--in most store layouts that's where your fresh produce, bakery, fresh meats, and dairy are--and avoid the center and interior refrigerated aisles where your processed and "convenience" foods are. Now I still will get a frozen pizza or two on special now and then, or a couple $1 pot pies to make a quick lunch (I love those), and of course ice cream, but I generally try to follow that principle--and I can eat pretty well for a reasonable weekly grocery bill. I like cooking and experimenting with new recipes (or just throwing stuff together and improvising--made some recipes of my own that way) too.

I'm not sure how much HFCS is different from sugar, or whether there simply may be more of it in foods than there was cane sugar back in the day (because it's cheaper/subsidized). There is a difference in taste--Mountain Dew recently introduced "Throwback" that supposedly used the cane sugar recipe from the old days and I can taste a difference. Maybe HCFS metabolizes differently, or the body becomes more easily "addicted" to it? I don't know, and haven't looked into it much. I mostly drink diet pop now as I've gotten accustomed to the taste of it--with some of my family history it's probably either that or diabetes, with the amount I tend to drink. Still drink heavier ales though and think "light beer" tastes pointlessly watered down (if you're gonna drink, drink--not in mass quantities necessarily, but for full taste).

Overall, I think where "fast food" or "convenience food" was once either more a luxury, or decidedly terrible ("TV dinners" back in the 70s weren't nearly as appetizing as what they've come up with in that "genre" since), it wasn't nearly as common as today--and along with general activity levels, probably makes a lot of the difference you see in obesity rates.

Originally Posted by annla899

In one of my many attempts to quit smoking, I read a book by a guy who had compiled studies about the advantages of nicotine. It appeared to benefit dealing with frustration. It actually does seem to have positive psychological properties. For me, it was: feel bad? Have a cigarette. Sad? Have a cigarette. Need a break? Have a cigarette. Relaxing? Have a cigarette. Having fun? Have a cigarette. Thinking about something? Have a cigarette.

Yeah, this is why it is one of the hardest addictions to overcome. It's a drug that is an upper when we feel down and a relaxer when we feel stressed. I quit almost twenty years ago, and I have to say, it was one of the hardest things I ever did. Like you, I tried numerous times before I finally found what worked for me. I did it with the help of the American Lung Association. I was so impressed with their process that I got certified to teach the cessation programs.

What's in a Cigarette?

There are approximately 600 ingredients in cigarettes. When burned, they create more than 4,000 chemicals. At least 50 of these chemicals are known to cause cancer, and many are poisonous.
Many of these chemicals are also found in consumer products, but these products have warning labels. While the public is warned about the danger of the poisons in these products, there is no such warning for the toxins in tobacco smoke.
Here are a few of the chemicals in tobacco smoke, and other places they are found:

• Acetone – found in nail polish remover
• Acetic Acid – an ingredient in hair dye
• Ammonia – a common household cleaner
• Arsenic – used in rat poison
• Benzene – found in rubber cement
• Butane – used in lighter fluid
• Cadmium – active component in battery acid
• Carbon Monoxide – released in car exhaust fumes
• Formaldehyde – embalming fluid
• Hexamine – found in barbecue lighter fluid
• Lead – used in batteries
• Naphthalene – an ingredient in moth balls
• Methanol – a main component in rocket fuel
• Nicotine – used as insecticide
• Tar – material for paving roads
• Toluene - used to manufacture paint

Originally Posted by Danilynn

Just an observation. I'm probably going to be called ignorant. but oh, well.

Remember in the 70's and early 80's how few obese people were around? Most everyone was slimmer, kids ate just as much junk food when given a chance then too. Drank cokes on occasion, had candy bars. Had cupcakes at school functions, and drank sweetened sugar loaded kool-aide. Remember the Kool-aide mascot? So what changed?

Real sugar was used, not the corn fructose stuff. Kids were allowed to be kids, play outside, hell in some cases told to go outside. ride bikes and skateboards without over-bearing adults legislating all the fun right out of play.

Being fat in the 80's was not socially acceptable, however, smoking was. Result, you really didn't see a whole lot of really obese or morbidly obese people. There might have been 1 or 2 kids per school, not class, the whole school that were fat.
Now you see the inverse of that, smoking has been ostracized and demonized, as it should have been all along. If you choose to, have a ball. If not good on you. But now obese gets lip service, and has been made socially acceptable.

Real sugar is mostly gone from foods and drinks unless you make them at home. Which has also changed, no one seems to make/cook foods from scratch anymore.

This is not going to win me any friends, but here goes, in for a pence in for a pound.

I wear a size 4. ( 15 years ago at the same size as now, I wore a 6 sometimes an 8. Clothing has gotten bigger but sizes have been changed to say smaller. Don't believe it? find some old dress patterns from the 70's and check the measurements given for size against what's given today) It used to be easier 15 years ago to find that size clothing. Now, it's easier to find size 12/14/16/18 women's clothes. I know this first hand from shopping with a larger friend of over a decade. Used to be easier when we went shopping for me to find clothes, now more often than not she has better luck finding clothes. It's almost a complete reversal of where it was for us back then. More often than not if I find clothes in my size they are marketed for teenagers.

My husband is on the small side too. We ended up having to specially order his last suit. Because no store around here carried a size 30 waist ( he actually needs a 28, but that's not ever happened) with a 34 length.

Plates have gotten larger. My mom still has the dishes she bought new in 1979. the dinner plates from that set are about the size of the salad/sandwich plate in the set I bought 4 years ago. So what seems a serving size has gotten skewed. Sidewalks have disappeared from most areas built in residential areas after the 70's. Drive around sometime if you aren't in a large metropolis like NYC and observe this.

It has become ok to pick on one bad habit like smoking, and point out the detrimental stuff from it, but never ever say the same about obesity, because then you are shaming the person by the pc crowd. In the same time frame I have referenced I have noticed it seems to be perfectly ok though to say awful things to/about women who aren't overweight.

In my opinion, your observations are right on target. One of the reasons why so many Americans are obese is that you really have to make an effort to eat healthfully AND exercise. In past generations, people simply moved more.

Originally Posted by Deb C

What's in a Cigarette?

There are approximately 600 ingredients in cigarettes. When burned, they create more than 4,000 chemicals. At least 50 of these chemicals are known to cause cancer, and many are poisonous.
Many of these chemicals are also found in consumer products, but these products have warning labels. While the public is warned about the danger of the poisons in these products, there is no such warning for the toxins in tobacco smoke.
Here are a few of the chemicals in tobacco smoke, and other places they are found:

• Acetone – found in nail polish remover
• Acetic Acid – an ingredient in hair dye
• Ammonia – a common household cleaner
• Arsenic – used in rat poison
• Benzene – found in rubber cement
• Butane – used in lighter fluid
• Cadmium – active component in battery acid
• Carbon Monoxide – released in car exhaust fumes
• Formaldehyde – embalming fluid
• Hexamine – found in barbecue lighter fluid
• Lead – used in batteries
• Naphthalene – an ingredient in moth balls
• Methanol – a main component in rocket fuel
• Nicotine – used as insecticide
• Tar – material for paving roads
• Toluene - used to manufacture paint

I had two siblings who died in their 50s from lung cancer. My brother smoked for about 20 years and although he had quit for 10-15 years before he got cancer, he was exposed to plenty of second hand smoke. My older sister smoked for 40 years and was only able to quit smoking about 1 1/2 years before she developed cancer.

As a result, I have a pretty emotional reaction to people smoking. I just want to shake them.

I know, its emotional, not logical; plenty of smokers live long lives. But two lives of people who meant a lot to me were cut short because of that habit.

My Dad smoked 3 packs a day of Winstons, from the Korean War to his death. I thought all windows were blue. We never had to buy a window tint package for the car.

There is absolutely no connection between that, and the respiratory challenges I face today. I can last about two hours with my cousins in Jefferson County on holiday visits before a ride to the ER for respiratory arrest. My Mom died of pulmonary fibrosis, even though she quit smoking in the early 1960's. Like global warming, there is no connection. Really. Rani will confirm this.

Many of my fellow pilots would detox from a late night, with 100% O2 from the mask in one hand, and a cig in the other. I'd picked them up from the gasthaus or pub the night before (the non-drinker with the international driver's license), so they wouldn't have to explain themselves to Colonel Alford, when he picked them up from the stockade. Polezei waved me right on through- "Ahhh, guten abend, Herr Hauptmann. The usual I see. Proceed". Cleaning up der wagen was a pain, but worth it for the OER's.

For some reason, I never started smoking. Or drinking. No wonder I suck.

Originally Posted by Copperfield

Isn't it such a tragedy that Barry's website is so broken that it might take months before they figure out his healthcare plan isn't free?

To date, the execution of healthcare.gov is pathetic, and some heads should roll for that. It would be interesting to know who has the contract to build the site and backoffice apps. I'm sure it's not the guys who built Obama's campaign web-presense.

Originally Posted by annla899

I now that chemically HFCS it's the same, but dammit, it tastes different. And we human animals notice it. It has a different texture, smoothness. At a completely unprovable and visceral level, I know it's different. ;]

Fructose and sucrose are chemically different, and taste different too.

Originally Posted by Danilynn

Just an observation. I'm probably going to be called ignorant. but oh, well.

Remember in the 70's and early 80's how few obese people were around? Most everyone was slimmer, kids ate just as much junk food when given a chance then too. Drank cokes on occasion, had candy bars. Had cupcakes at school functions, and drank sweetened sugar loaded kool-aide. Remember the Kool-aide mascot? So what changed?

Real sugar was used, not the corn fructose stuff. Kids were allowed to be kids, play outside, hell in some cases told to go outside. ride bikes and skateboards without over-bearing adults legislating all the fun right out of play.

Maybe there are more calories to the taste with corn sweeteners, so one must eat more of a food laced with corn sweeteners to feel satisfied. Of course the reduction in exercise that kids get (and children need to play so that they can be children and become competent adults). Parents need to get the kids off their computers and video games and away from the TV set to the park so that they can

(1) get away from the chips, popcorn, candy, and sugary drinks, and
(2) burn off some of the calories

Being fat in the 80's was not socially acceptable, however, smoking was. Result, you really didn't see a whole lot of really obese or morbidly obese people. There might have been 1 or 2 kids per school, not class, the whole school that were fat.
Now you see the inverse of that, smoking has been ostracized and demonized, as it should have been all along. If you choose to, have a ball. If not good on you. But now obese gets lip service, and has been made socially acceptable.

We are going to see multitudes of morbidly-obese people dying of heart attacks and diabetic complications while in their 40s. The Grim Reaper offers some harsh criticism of destructive patterns of life.

Real sugar is mostly gone from foods and drinks unless you make them at home. Which has also changed, no one seems to make/cook foods from scratch anymore.

We can still have a severe economic downturn that forces millions out of the workforce. I expect teenagers to be drummed out -- but many women can be compelled to disappear from the paid work force. They may go back to gardening, sewing, canning, and cooking... from scratch. Restaurant meals will be scarcer, and convenience foods that one simply puts in a microwave oven may fall out of use because the family has but one breadwinner. So people make their own lasagna instead of buying it at the store... and of course mix some small cuts of meat and some vegetables with a sauce to get their own teriyaki or sweet-and-sour chicken.

Cooking (from scratch), canning, and gardening require some physical activity.

This is not going to win me any friends, but here goes, in for a pence in for a pound.

I wear a size 4. ( 15 years ago at the same size as now, I wore a 6 sometimes an 8. Clothing has gotten bigger but sizes have been changed to say smaller. Don't believe it? find some old dress patterns from the 70's and check the measurements given for size against what's given today) It used to be easier 15 years ago to find that size clothing. Now, it's easier to find size 12/14/16/18 women's clothes. I know this first hand from shopping with a larger friend of over a decade. Used to be easier when we went shopping for me to find clothes, now more often than not she has better luck finding clothes. It's almost a complete reversal of where it was for us back then. More often than not if I find clothes in my size they are marketed for teenagers.

It's an strictly vanity.

My husband is on the small side too. We ended up having to specially order his last suit. Because no store around here carried a size 30 waist ( he actually needs a 28, but that's not ever happened) with a 34 length.

I have noticed that. We will probably have the technology for making a suit on the premises to fit any physique instead of pretending to phit fysiques and doing it badly with the store clerk pretending that 'it fits perfectly'.

Plates have gotten larger. My mom still has the dishes she bought new in 1979. the dinner plates from that set are about the size of the salad/sandwich plate in the set I bought 4 years ago. So what seems a serving size has gotten skewed. Sidewalks have disappeared from most areas built in residential areas after the 70's. Drive around sometime if you aren't in a large metropolis like NYC and observe this.

Eating habits have changed. Smaller portions -- or eating two meals a day and a snack -- could be more economical and could be the norm as a 4T fully entrenches itself.

It has become ok to pick on one bad habit like smoking, and point out the detrimental stuff from it, but never ever say the same about obesity, because then you are shaming the person by the pc crowd. In the same time frame I have referenced I have noticed it seems to be perfectly ok though to say awful things to/about women who aren't overweight.

This is a 4T. The culture could change abruptly. Just think of how acceptable it was for American soldiers to smoke just to calm their nerves during WWII. Calm nerves were more precious than keeping lungs free of carcinogens that would kill people forty to fifty years later. Obesity could become very unstylish very fast.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

To date, the execution of healthcare.gov is pathetic, and some heads should roll for that. It would be interesting to know who has the contract to build the site and backoffice apps. I'm sure it's not the guys who built Obama's campaign web-presense.

Aquilent built the front end. They admitted as much a few months ago. The backend was probably built by a variety of vendors spread across a hodgepodge of specific projects and multiple states.

Originally Posted by Copperfield

Aquilent built the front end. They admitted as much a few months ago. The backend was probably built by a variety of vendors spread across a hodgepodge of specific projects and multiple states.

H-m-m-m. If healthcare.gov looked a bit more like the Aquilent site, I might feel a bit better about it.

Then again, the backofice apps can do more damage and stay hidden from view ... and complaints.

Originally Posted by Deb C

What's in a Cigarette?

There are approximately 600 ingredients in cigarettes. When burned, they create more than 4,000 chemicals. At least 50 of these chemicals are known to cause cancer, and many are poisonous.
Many of these chemicals are also found in consumer products, but these products have warning labels. While the public is warned about the danger of the poisons in these products, there is no such warning for the toxins in tobacco smoke.
Here are a few of the chemicals in tobacco smoke, and other places they are found:

• Acetone – found in nail polish remover
• Acetic Acid – an ingredient in hair dye
• Ammonia – a common household cleaner
• Arsenic – used in rat poison
• Benzene – found in rubber cement
• Butane – used in lighter fluid
• Cadmium – active component in battery acid
• Carbon Monoxide – released in car exhaust fumes
• Formaldehyde – embalming fluid
• Hexamine – found in barbecue lighter fluid
• Lead – used in batteries
• Naphthalene – an ingredient in moth balls
• Methanol – a main component in rocket fuel
• Nicotine – used as insecticide
• Tar – material for paving roads
• Toluene - used to manufacture paint

Acetic acid isn't that bad so long as it is diluted. It's the acid in vinegar. (Concentrated acetic acid is a corrosive substance due to its acidity). It's part of the metabolic process, and one poison (arsenic) kills by attacking acetic acid in animal metabolism.

Originally Posted by Deb C

What's in a Cigarette?

There are approximately 600 ingredients in cigarettes. When burned, they create more than 4,000 chemicals. At least 50 of these chemicals are known to cause cancer, and many are poisonous.
Many of these chemicals are also found in consumer products, but these products have warning labels. While the public is warned about the danger of the poisons in these products, there is no such warning for the toxins in tobacco smoke.
Here are a few of the chemicals in tobacco smoke, and other places they are found:

• Acetone – found in nail polish remover
• Acetic Acid – an ingredient in hair dye
• Ammonia – a common household cleaner
• Arsenic – used in rat poison
• Benzene – found in rubber cement
• Butane – used in lighter fluid
• Cadmium – active component in battery acid
• Carbon Monoxide – released in car exhaust fumes
• Formaldehyde – embalming fluid
• Hexamine – found in barbecue lighter fluid
• Lead – used in batteries
• Naphthalene – an ingredient in moth balls
• Methanol – a main component in rocket fuel
• Nicotine – used as insecticide
• Tar – material for paving roads
• Toluene - used to manufacture paint

But all of it is nothing next to the menace of the all-caustic, explosive, deadly component of plutonium reactors and chemical weapons manufacturing processes, which is none the less found in all manner of processed foods, medications, GM grains and vegetables, and even agrobusiness vitamin-D-enriched milk... the scourge of Dihydrogen Monoxide!

Originally Posted by Bad Dog

My Dad smoked 3 packs a day of Winstons, from the Korean War to his death. I thought all windows were blue. We never had to buy a window tint package for the car.

There is absolutely no connection between that, and the respiratory challenges I face today. I can last about two hours with my cousins in Jefferson County on holiday visits before a ride to the ER for respiratory arrest. My Mom died of pulmonary fibrosis, even though she quit smoking in the early 1960's. Like global warming, there is no connection. Really. Rani will confirm this.

Many of my fellow pilots would detox from a late night, with 100% O2 from the mask in one hand, and a cig in the other. I'd picked them up from the gasthaus or pub the night before (the non-drinker with the international driver's license), so they wouldn't have to explain themselves to Colonel Alford, when he picked them up from the stockade. Polezei waved me right on through- "Ahhh, guten abend, Herr Hauptmann. The usual I see. Proceed". Cleaning up der wagen was a pain, but worth it for the OER's.

For some reason, I never started smoking. Or drinking. No wonder I suck.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom and dad and Wonkette's brother and sister. Even though some of us who once smoked, quit years ago, many of us were still subjected to second hand smoke whenever we ate in a restaurant or sat in a bar that allowed smoking anywhere in the same building. It was such a farce to indicate that there were actually smoking **sections** in public spaces. It was like having a no peeing section in a swimming pool - there's no such thing.

That second hand smoke is also dangerous. Were'er inhaling main stream smoke *without* the filter. There's even third hand smoke that stays in any room where there was smoking. If you can smell it, you are inhaling it.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

But all of it is nothing next to the menace of the all-caustic, explosive, deadly component of plutonium reactors and chemical weapons manufacturing processes, which is none the less found in all manner of processed foods, medications, GM grains and vegetables, and even agrobusiness vitamin-D-enriched milk... the scourge of Dihydrogen Monoxide!

...and all bacterial pathogens, ulcers, cancers, and snake venom. It is necessary for the formation of vitriol that literally burns flesh. Most drownings happen in it, and the solid form is perfect for slip-and-fall accidents. A particularly insidious form, the supposedly soft form known as snow, causes lethal avalanches. As an explosive when it boils it contributed to the collapse of the Twin Towers. A large mass of solid DHMO sank the Titanic.

It is an excellent pathway for such dangerous creatures as sharks, polar bears, crocodiles, alligators, tigers, anacondas, leopard seals, electric eels, orca, sea bass, Portuguese Man Of War, and box jellies.

Originally Posted by Deb C

There's even third hand smoke that stays in any room where there was smoking. If you can smell it, you are inhaling it.

Back when I played poker regularly, I would come back from the boat, and my dog would say, "Daddy! You went to the stinky place again!".

Dogs are smart.