Originally Posted by The Rani

The only reason that I bothered responding to you on this issue is that people reading your crap might actually believe it. You really are an idiot, or an incredibly persistent defender of Democratic Party. Or, I guess, both.

The phrase you are looking for is "known, demonstrated liar". Playwrite long ago forfeit the right to the charitable assumption that he is just a fool.

Originally Posted by The Rani

The only reason that I bothered responding to you on this issue is that people reading your crap might actually believe it. You really are an idiot, or an incredibly persistent defender of Democratic Party. Or, I guess, both.
Spreading false information is an insult to the millions out there left without healthcare coverage, and it remains to be seen how many millions that will be even AFTER the Medicaid expansions take effect.

And let's just point out that once again you offer NOT A SINGLE FACT to support any of your idiotic assertions; just more vitriol. It may work on some people, it doesn't work on me.

Have I mentioned that I don't do magic pony lands - neither the wonderful kumbayas that other posters provide or the horrific hells you promote?

Originally Posted by Deb C

Smoke and mirrors, bread and circus', are for sure keeping us numb and dumbed down. As I see it, one step in a movement to transform a system is better than giving up. At this point the movements in place can be ready when things do fall apart.

A huge problem by those who want fairness in our country, is that they use valuable time making excuses and defending bad policies, rather than putting energy into demanding just policies.

Every week I get between 30 and 50 pieces of snail mail and at least 5 times that many emails screaming about <insert the cause or issue of the moment>. I used to read them and respond, but they grew in number until I just could't take the time any more. Then, I started to just scan them and only responded to ones of interest. Now, they all go into the trash - physical or virtual. My patience is spent.

I'm tired and see no chance of anythng happening, and I'm certainly not going to hand-out two or three hundred dollars a week to fight the good fight. There are simply too many issue advocates and too much issue-related noise to suit me. If there was any possibility that this would produce results, I might be less harsh. If I'm not responding, and I'm really interested, then what about the average person with little interest and less understanding?

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

Uh what? I never made any deceptive or untrue claims on any insurance application. I have never received an official diagnosis or treatment for Celiac Disease, I've just come to a better understanding of my own immune system and what sets it off. Are they gonna sue me to refund the thousands of dollars I've already dropped in to the insurance scam bucket for zero treatment?

Psss, if you got any treatment while under your father's plan, this will be one of the easiest cases for an investigator to prove you had a pre-existing condition. I know of someone who was kicked off a policy while waiting for his scheduled prostate cancer surgery because an investigator found he was prescribed some drug for his F'n acne 35 years earlier as a teenager! See this pre-ACA notice on pre-conditions -

http://www.webmd.com/health-insuranc...health-problem

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

If your point is that insurers are malicious bastards with no concern for their customers, then I'm in complete agreement with that. I just don't understand how forcing everyone to become a customer is somehow a solution we should be proud of, or a solution we expect to result in electoral victories.

Yes, they are. But living in magic pony land isn't going to do a damn thing about it.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

The phrase you are looking for is "known, demonstrated liar". Playwrite long ago forfeit the right to the charitable assumption that he is just a fool.

Ah, Gollum makes his expected return.

Have you been able to find that "lie" anywhere on this forum that I supposedly made? Or do we just caulk this up as part of your magic pony land that includes your inability to find anywhere in the world a society that lives by your version of limited govt? Have you made that video yet of getting off a hundred rounds with a revolver?

I return you to your mirror. That master is sure tricksey.

Originally Posted by Deb C

This is why this following movement is so important.

"Whether your passion is protecting the environment or creating green jobs or improving public education—or really any other issue on which corporate interests are blocking real solutions—this is your campaign too."

5 Ways You Can Fight CitizensUnited

The Story of Citizens United v FEC: How we the people can reclaim our democracy.

"The Citizens United v. FEC decision makes this problem even worse. Reversing it is a critical step to reclaiming our democracy by the people and for the people. Yes, we know that reversing this case won’t immediately prevent the myriad other ways that corporations exert influence in our democracy, but it is a really, really important place to start. Reversing a Supreme Court decision requires a new Constitutional Amendment so we’re joining with a number of organizations launching a national campaign to obtain one. It’s not going to be quick or easy, but working for big changes requires big efforts. And while we’re working on it, we can be building a broad-based national movement to get corporations completely out of our democracy—and get the people back in."

http://www.yesmagazine.org/people-po...itizens-united

I have signed the petition. We can write to state legislatures to support a resolution in favor, as some states have done.

The fact remains, though, that an amendment must pass congress in a 2/3 vote, and be approved in a vote by 3/4 of state legislatures. Republicans are not going to support this. The Tea Party is not. DINOs may not either. They will have to be defeated before this can be done. Defeated by any possible way through elections.

All movements must be aware of what strategies might work. Otherwise, you are living in "magic pony land."

How is the Constitution amended?
Article V of the Constitution prescribes how an amendment can become a part of the Constitution. While there are two ways, only one has ever been used. All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment.

The other method of passing an amendment requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can propose as many amendments as it deems necessary. Those amendments must be approved by three-fourths of the states.

http://www.lexisnexis.com/constituti...howitsdone.asp

Originally Posted by The Rani

I guess it took discussing a subject that I have extensive experience with for me to completely understand what you guys have been saying.
I'm sure he thinks that I'm making all of this up, and that I've never actually seen a Medicaid application form in my life. Because, of course, we assume that others are like ourselves, and that's what HE would do. What a douche.

Let's just point out another post of yours sans any facts, just vitriol.

Do you all really believe this works? I guess it must with some; Faux News has been making a killing off the same behavior. I guess the fundamental characteristic of sheeple is they not only eat shit but keep passing it on and actually believing its candy.

Originally Posted by Deb C

Smoke and mirrors, bread and circus', are for sure keeping us numb and dumbed down. As I see it, one step in a movement to transform a system is better than giving up. At this point the movements in place can be ready when things do fall apart.

A huge problem by those who want fairness in our country, is that they use valuable time making excuses and defending bad policies, rather than putting energy into demanding just policies.

What I have notice is for all your whining you have provided absolutely zilch in bringing healthcare to anyone.

On the other hand, I've notice a huge batch of people from Obama and Congressional Dems on down to hundreds of government workers and thousands of volunteers that are working under a not-perfect legislation to bring Medicaid and private insurance to 100s of thousands of people in its first month of operation and working hard to turn that into millions in the next five.

I see a-holes on both ends of the political spectrum deathly afraid of that success and doing everything they can to undermine it.

I support the doers, not the ineffectual, self-centered whiners and those genetically wired apparently to be obstructing a-holes.

Originally Posted by The Rani

I guess it took discussing a subject that I have extensive experience with for me to completely understand what you guys have been saying.
I'm sure he thinks that I'm making all of this up, and that I've never actually seen a Medicaid application form in my life. Because, of course, we assume that others are like ourselves, and that's what HE would do. What a douche.

You are assuming that he cares if you have or have not. That isn't his job.

His job is to service his johns.

Originally Posted by playwrite

Have you been able to find that "lie" anywhere on this forum that I supposedly made?

Another lie. It's not like the forum is invisible to everyone except you, you know. I link (yet again) to the one that I intentionally took the effort to document. Start here* and follow to here.

The casual digger will, on his or her own, find that your lies are legion beyond the one paltry example.

Originally Posted by Copperfield

You are assuming that he cares if you have or have not. That isn't his job.

His job is to service his johns.

Ah, another one of the factless clowns comes to join the clown car again with his own classy style. And I'm the douche? Yea, right.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Another lie. It's not like the forum is invisible to everyone except you, you know. I link (yet again) to the one that I intentionally took the effort to document. Start here* and follow to here.

The casual digger will, on his or her own, find that your lies are legion beyond the one paltry example.

Let me save people the time.

Basically, I'm lying because Justin offered some gobbledygook about his difference with Ayn Rand that amounts to her being a statist because he believes more than her that the govt should not have a monopoly on sanctioned violence. He will of course blow another gasket with this summary, just like he has done with any previous attempt, as being my lying about his position. He initially tried offering more gobbledygook to clarify his previous gobbledygook, but at some point even he realized that was all obfuscating bullshit and much easier to just scream that I'm lying. Then his toadies (Rani, Coop, PrinceofCats, etc.) chime it because, well, I have repeatedly shown how utterly wrongheaded they are as well - they don't like me for that. Boo-hoo.

I don't do magic pony lands, but I am particularly fond of shooting the hellishly ugly ones that these idiots keep offering up.

Oh, and on a side note, I have repeatedly asked Justin and other similiar 'bright lights' on this forum to provide a real world working example, past and present, of their nirvana of govt not having a monopoly on sanctioned violence. [Cue the crickets]

You're identified as lying, playwrite, because you say (or rather, write) things which are not true, and which you know are not true when you say them. No more or less than that.

Your attempt to deflect attention from the fact of your lying by inventing narratives and personalities and phantom enemies and the like is simply the deceitful course which is only to be expected from a liar.

Originally Posted by The Rani

I'm sure the projection happens on a subconscious level. Or, possibly, I'm still being too generous. :/
(why is there no crooked face emoticon)

Still not a single fact offered for your original idiotic assertion.

You can continue the vitriol with your toadies (where is the Prince, anyway?) all you want but it just further clarifies for everyone else what your clown car is all about - pure horseshit, and getting vicious to anyone who calls you on it.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

You're identified as lying, playwrite, because you say (or rather, write) things which are not true, and which you know are not true when you say them. No more or less than that.

Your attempt to deflect attention from the fact of your lying by inventing narratives and personalities and phantom enemies and the like is simply the deceitful course which is only to be expected from a liar.

Restating your idiotic assertion as an assertion is idiotic.

Originally Posted by playwrite

Restating your idiotic assertion as an assertion is idiotic.

Dialogue with an unrepentant liar is pointless. I content myself with simply flagging -- footnoted (in the internet manner) -- you for what you are.

Not yet enough to have the haters, Right, Left or the Nihilist, shaking in their boots but maybe give them a little pause -

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...#axzz2l6We1VOM

Healthcare plan enrollment surges in some states after rocky rollout

WASHINGTON — Despite the disastrous rollout of the federal government's healthcare website, enrollment is surging in many states as tens of thousands of consumers sign up for insurance plans made available by President Obama's health law.

A number of states that use their own systems, including California, are on track to hit enrollment targets for 2014 because of a sharp increase in November, according to state officials.

"What we are seeing is incredible momentum," said Peter Lee, director of Covered California, the nation's largest state insurance marketplace, which accounted for a third of all enrollments nationally in October. California — which enrolled about 31,000 people in health plans last month — nearly doubled that in the first two weeks of this month....

and regarding the federal site -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...rt-of-working/

And there is this bit from Sharon LaFraniere and Eric Lipton in The New York Times, who report that the pace of enrollment through HealthCare.gov has just about doubled in November. "As of mid-November, more than 50,000 people had selected an insurance plan — up from 27,000 in the entire month of October, people working on the project said," they write.

That 50,000 figure is obviously still quite short of enrollment projections that expected about 700,000 enrollments by the end of November. But it also suggests that, both in states and the federal marketplace, enrollment is moving at a slightly faster clip.

This is what many health policy experts predicted: The rate of enrollment would grow throughout November and mid-December up until Dec. 15, the last day to purchase coverage that begins on Jan. 1. There would likely be a bit of a lull until late December and early January, followed by more sign-ups in February and especially March, the last month of the open enrollment period.

A possible glimpse of hope here, ...

...but I guess that would be seen as lying by the clowns in this forum's clown car.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Dialogue with an unrepentant liar is pointless. I content myself with simply flagging -- footnoted (in the internet manner) -- you for what you are.

Just put the mirror down and back away from it. You can do it! I'm rooting for you, Smeagol!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLvIFRNbqOs

Anyone else notice that second biggest group (1/6) making up the top 1% -



- nay, it's just the big bad insurers!

Originally Posted by playwrite

Just put the mirror down and back away from it.

-sigh-
If that's the way you want to play it, at least have the class to do it right.

Originally Posted by The Rani

I wonder if the internet attracts those types, because nobody can call the liar on their shit.
Or, they can, but there are no "real life" ramifications.

I've seen a similar situation happen recently with an acquaintance, but everyone close to him finally got together and made an agreement to stop listening to the B.S. So far it seems to have worked.
Then another person I know .... lies to his co-workers but not to his family (or at least not as much) because they know not to believe him. He has almost stopped going to family gatherings for that reason.

Magic pony land, indeed.

Wow, you can lay it on thick.

BUT, you're still not fooling anyone. Tell us how my pointing out the idiocy of your assertion that a $11K person is going to be forced to pay $2K in premium is me lying?

If anything, your lack of providing any supporting facts to your assertion and relying on your toadies to come rescue you once again in an orgy of bullshit obfuscation suggests that Justin lost his mirror and you're now transfixed by it, Ms Gollum.

Some additional good news pointing to improvement, and eventual outcome -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...macare-update/

The three things we learned from today’s Obamacare update

Every day, usually around 2 p.m. or so, the Center for Medicare Services hosts a half-hour long call on the status of the insurance marketplace. Now, every day, we here at Wonkblog will update you on what the federal government told us about how Obamacare is going. Without further ado, here is what we learned today!

Most of the high-priority problems with the "834 transmissions" have been fixed. Spokeswoman Julie Bataille kicked off the call by announcing that her agency has "completed fixes for two-thirds of the high priority bugs responsible with issues with 834 transactions." 834 transactions, as you might recall, are the forms that the exchange is supposed to send to insurance plans when someone signs up for a plan. But ever since HealthCare.gov launched, it has been spitting out inaccurate forms that make it difficult for insurers to know who has actually purchased their plan.
Unfortunately, there was no follow up question on the error rate for 834 transmissions; we don't know, right now, how many of those are buggy.

Direct enrollment through private insurers is getting easier. Insurers should be able to directly enroll shoppers through their own Web sites at this point, including (and this is the important point here) people who are shopping with insurance subsidies. "We do believe the majority of those high priority fixes for direct enrollment have been addressed," Bataille said. "We continue to work through some additional issues and make sure that [insurers] are seeing those fixes work. They will be more actively utilizing those direct enrollment processes."
When pressed on whether this would be true for Americans shopping with subsidies - and who would need to connect to the federal government to find out what subsidy they should receive - Bataille said, "Correct, that is for the subsidy eligible population."

I'm still double-checking this issue, so stay tuned for a bit more in this space!

The systems to send subsides to insurers haven't been built. When someone does shop with a subsidy, the federal government is on the hook to pay part of their premium to the health insurance plan. Medicare deputy chief information officer Henry Chao testified before Congress today - and Bataille confirmed - that the system that will send those subsidies has not yet been created.
"My understanding of the system is we do not need that online until the middle of January, given how the payment schedule works," she said. "It's a back end system necessary to process information directly to issuers."
In other words: Subsidies don't start going out the door until 2014, so there is no need for the system to exist right now. Whether it exists in January 2014--that's one area where we'll have to wait and see.

By January, the big issue the GOP will have to run on next year is the insurers being paid late???? Oh, that's just gonna bring out the voters, woo-wee!!!

Certainly not there yet and a lot more could go wrong (or, more likely be hyped as the end of the world) but I'm starting to get just the slightest whiff that this thread is heading to that place where all the "mark my words" Leftys; all the "evil big govt is coming for ur baby" Righties; and of course the 'everybody is a F'er' nihilist are all going to start losing interest because it no longer aligns with their worldview and their horseshit becomes too obvious even to themselves..

Is it headed to the "we're going to invade Syria" thread; we're never leaving Iraq thread; Z-nut is a saint and a patriot thread; Benghazi! Benghazi! IRS! IRS! threads etc., etc....

Originally Posted by playwrite

Anyone else notice that second biggest group (1/6) making up the top 1%

Of course doctors are near the top of the chart when it comes to people who work for a living, but they're not the ones who are skewing the income disparity in this country, and you sure as hell know it:

http://web.williams.edu/Economics/wp...TopEarners.pdf

"The data demonstrate that executives, managers, supervisors, and financial professionals account for about 60 percent of the top 0.1
percent of income earners in recent years, and can account for 70 percent of the increase in the
share of national income going to the top 0.1 percent of the income distribution between 1979
and 2005. During 1979-2005 there was substantial heterogeneity in growth rates of income for
top earners across occupations, and significant divergence in incomes within occupations
among people in the top 1 percent"

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...-problem/?_r=0

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-to...-12-of-all-us/

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

Of course doctors are near the top of the chart when it comes to people who work for a living, but they're not the ones who are skewing the income disparity in this country, and you sure as hell know it:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...-problem/?_r=0

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-to...-12-of-all-us/

That may be true, but this thread is about our national healthcare system and on more that one occassion the discussion has been about health care costs with some providing the 'insight' that it isn't really about poor Dr. Marcus Welby's struggling with student loans.

I'm not saying medical professional salaries are anywhere near the only problem or even in the group of the top few problems; but to ignore it is just plain silly, and is certainly one of the things that will leave you clueless as to what politics can and cannot happen and how to go about it.

Originally Posted by playwrite

That may be true, but this thread is about our national healthcare system and on more that one occassion the discussion has been about health care costs with some providing the 'insight' that it isn't really about poor Dr. Marcus Welby's struggling with student loans.

I'm not saying medical professional salaries are anywhere near the only problem or even in the group of the top few problems; but to ignore it is just plain silly, and is certainly one of the things that will leave you clueless as to what politics can and cannot happen and how to go about it.

If you read the data closely, you'll see that non-finance professionals in the top 1%, like hot-shot doctors making $200-500,000 a year, actually pay much higher income tax rates than the financial leeches in the top .1%. They also pay a much higher percentage of their income to payroll, and to student loans, and to malpractice insurance. The closer you get to the top, like at the Forbes top 400 list, the more tax rates approach the reduced capital gains rate. And that doesn't really scratch the surface of off-shore holdings.

So, there's no reason to conflate driving a BMW to work with owning a private jet. It's the latter, not the former, that is the root of income inequality in America.