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Thread: It's time for national healthcare - Page 211







Post#5251 at 11-26-2013 11:43 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Apparently so. The most persistent liars are the ones who believe their own lies.
Not really. You see someone like you who projects that trait onto someone else really has no clue as to what they do.

You probable sleep through that class that day.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5252 at 11-26-2013 11:45 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Maybe Danilynn made all that shit up because she loves getting you to foam at the mouth incoherently.
There's nothing incoherent to point out the entire rant is based on a house of cards.

If that is too complex for you deary, get a 4th grader to explain it to you.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5253 at 11-26-2013 11:46 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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11-26-2013, 11:46 PM #5253
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Looks like you're the grand prize winner of this contest, then:
I'm not sure where you're confused, but again, get that 4th grader to help out.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5254 at 11-27-2013 12:57 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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11-27-2013, 12:57 AM #5254
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Man, I really am confused.
Well, you obviously have only the cognitive capacity of a rather young child. Let me see if I can dumb it down for you, but again, check in with a 4th grader for some further help if still needed.

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I mean, I don't know what kind of asshole would pretend to support ACA, knowing full and well that it will fail and lead to single payer, but lying out his ass the whole time and telling everyone how great it is and how we are all morons if we don't vote Democrat to keep it going.
Mommy wants to buy little Rani a very nice dress to go to school (and hopefully learn something). But mommy doesn't have the money to buy little poor Rani that very nice dress because there are really bad people, little Rani, that won't give mommy the money. Mommy loves little Rani, however, and sews her the best dress she can, so little Rani doesn't have to go to school wearing nothing but her panties. Now little Rani is going to throw her tantrums and call her mommy "asshole" and "dumbass" (basically little Rani is not very bright) even though mommy keeps telling little Rani that the meanie people don't give a F about little Rani. I don't think that makes mommy a meanie let alone an asshole or a dumbass, but that doesn't keep little Rani from calling her mom an asshole or dumbass because little Rani in addition to not being too bright is also not really a very nice person.

Now that analogy might be a little too much too fast for you so let's stop there before explaining to you how it relates to why I can both want single payer but support the ACA. For now, let's just have you ponder the analogy on its face. When you get to the point (assuming you can) where you come to understand that little Rani is not very bright and also kind of an asshole, then we can move on - slowly, of course, very slowly.


Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
That kind of asshole would also tell the millions of people losing health insurance in the meantime that their personal problems are insignificant, and that they should suck it up for the good of ... the country?
Yeah, that kind of bullshit masquerading as liberal compassion really confuses the hell outta me.
I would be confused too if that was true, but it is not on so many levels. First, what makes you believe I can talk to millions of people??? How do you know what nobody right now knows, i.e. how many people are actually going to loss insurance coverage? You do understand, little Rani, that having one's policy from last year cancelled (something that happens to many policies each year with or without the ACA) is not the same thing as losing insurance coverage particularly for the majority of people they will be getting something better for less? You do understand that a single individual considering himself a 'loser' in all of this is RELATIVELY less significant than 10s of millions becoming 'winners' but that doesn't mean that it is INsignficant???

Further where did I say any one should suck on anything? I mean you generally suck but I never requested you to do that nor have I made the request to anyone else. What I did note is that a particular whiner has a wife who is getting govt subsidized insurance through her employer and there are other policy holders in her risk pool, males like our particular whiner, who pay more than they would if that risk pool excluded the unique health needs of women. Raising the question as to why it's okay for other males to support his wife's lower premiums but okay for him to whine about doing the same for women in his risk pool, that question is not requesting him to suck.... it just indicates how much he actually does.

Again, if any of this remains confusing to you, go get that 9 year old.
Last edited by playwrite; 11-27-2013 at 12:59 AM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5255 at 11-27-2013 01:15 AM by Bill66 [at Colorado joined Aug 2010 #posts 95]
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11-27-2013, 01:15 AM #5255
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Here's my friend's situation:

He's mid-40's living in Colorado with his wife, no children. Applied thru the ACA state exchange here about 10 days ago. A few technical glitches, but pretty easy as far as health care applications go, and many fewer questions "shining a spotlight up his rectum" as he experienced a few years ago applying for individual insurance. Worst thing is the state can't seem to verify on it's own that he's a taxpaying U.S. citizen, so he'll have to scan & upload documents to prove it to them. He had a few questions about this & other stuff, so he called their help line, which took some time as well, though not as bad as going to the DMV, according to him. The phone call got all of his questions answered, & he and his wife are currently enrolled for January 2014 coverage.

His main question was to confirm the price quote he got, which seemed too low to be true. He got insurance for his wife and himself, and got a quote (after tax credits) for a silver-level plan that was less expensive than he currently pays for individual coverage on himself only. He thought maybe the quote was for each of them, but turns out it was for both of them. His current (pre-ACA) individual coverage is basically catastrophic coverage only ($5000 deductible HSA plan with 100% coverage if he manages to spend over $5000 on medical bills in a given calendar year, no copays or anything, ie 1st $5000 each year is completely out of pocket including medicine). The silver level plan is much much better than this, similar to what his wife currently has through her employer (silver plan: $1500 deductible, but copays for all doctor visits & medicine even before deductible, 70% coverage after deductible kicks in to a maximum out-of-pocket cost of $5200 per year per person, after which insurance pays 100%). She will be reducing her work hours, and will no longer be eligible for her employer coverage, so will switch to the comparable silver-level ACA plan.

Oh, and she has a pre-existing condition, so was hanging on to her current full-time employment in part because of the health coverage. The COBRA extension cost for her alone if she had quit prior to ACA would have been approximately twice what the current ACA plan costs for both of them. After 18 months of COBRA, she would have been SOL in most states, but in CO would have qualified for a somewhat affordable state insurance exchange that was in operation prior to ACA, available for those with pre-existing conditions (still, combined with his individual insurance plan more than twice what they'll expect to pay thru ACA).

I know the word "socialism" is not supposed to be used in polite "mixed politics" company here in this country, but dang it I'm having a hard time remembering why it's supposed to be so evil for the middle class, based on this example.

Oh, and for those of you worried about his wife's work ethic, and how it's apparently already taking a dive due to the ACA, she's still going to be working at her current job, just fewer hours. Her extra time will be spent volunteering at a local charity of her choice.

Just thought I'd add a reasonable counter-example to some of the vitriolic discourse the Republicans spew on this forum and elsewhere. If you spit vitriol or obfuscation back at me don't expect a reply...







Post#5256 at 11-27-2013 07:19 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Apparently so. The most persistent liars are the ones who believe their own lies.
H-m-m-m. The most ironic post of the week.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#5257 at 11-27-2013 09:32 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I mean, I don't know what kind of asshole would pretend to support ACA, knowing full and well that it will fail and lead to single payer, but lying out his ass the whole time and telling everyone how great it is and how we are all morons if we don't vote Democrat to keep it going.
How can you not know? We've got an example of exactly that kind of asshole right here!
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#5258 at 11-27-2013 10:39 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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11-27-2013, 10:39 AM #5258
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Quote Originally Posted by Bill66 View Post
Here's my friend's situation:

He's mid-40's living in Colorado with his wife, no children. Applied thru the ACA state exchange here about 10 days ago. A few technical glitches, but pretty easy as far as health care applications go, and many fewer questions "shining a spotlight up his rectum" as he experienced a few years ago applying for individual insurance. Worst thing is the state can't seem to verify on it's own that he's a taxpaying U.S. citizen, so he'll have to scan & upload documents to prove it to them. He had a few questions about this & other stuff, so he called their help line, which took some time as well, though not as bad as going to the DMV, according to him. The phone call got all of his questions answered, & he and his wife are currently enrolled for January 2014 coverage.

His main question was to confirm the price quote he got, which seemed too low to be true. He got insurance for his wife and himself, and got a quote (after tax credits) for a silver-level plan that was less expensive than he currently pays for individual coverage on himself only. He thought maybe the quote was for each of them, but turns out it was for both of them. His current (pre-ACA) individual coverage is basically catastrophic coverage only ($5000 deductible HSA plan with 100% coverage if he manages to spend over $5000 on medical bills in a given calendar year, no copays or anything, ie 1st $5000 each year is completely out of pocket including medicine). The silver level plan is much much better than this, similar to what his wife currently has through her employer (silver plan: $1500 deductible, but copays for all doctor visits & medicine even before deductible, 70% coverage after deductible kicks in to a maximum out-of-pocket cost of $5200 per year per person, after which insurance pays 100%). She will be reducing her work hours, and will no longer be eligible for her employer coverage, so will switch to the comparable silver-level ACA plan.

Oh, and she has a pre-existing condition, so was hanging on to her current full-time employment in part because of the health coverage. The COBRA extension cost for her alone if she had quit prior to ACA would have been approximately twice what the current ACA plan costs for both of them. After 18 months of COBRA, she would have been SOL in most states, but in CO would have qualified for a somewhat affordable state insurance exchange that was in operation prior to ACA, available for those with pre-existing conditions (still, combined with his individual insurance plan more than twice what they'll expect to pay thru ACA).

I know the word "socialism" is not supposed to be used in polite "mixed politics" company here in this country, but dang it I'm having a hard time remembering why it's supposed to be so evil for the middle class, based on this example.

Oh, and for those of you worried about his wife's work ethic, and how it's apparently already taking a dive due to the ACA, she's still going to be working at her current job, just fewer hours. Her extra time will be spent volunteering at a local charity of her choice.

Just thought I'd add a reasonable counter-example to some of the vitriolic discourse the Republicans spew on this forum and elsewhere. If you spit vitriol or obfuscation back at me don't expect a reply...
and very much appreciated.

Thanks!

I'm expecting an explosion of these types of stories in the coming weeks. Certainly not in the mass media that will quickly get bored with good news or realize it doesn't sell to the sheeple. But more and more around the kitchen table and the water coolers type of thing.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5259 at 11-27-2013 11:02 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I'll get right to the point, douchebag:

You're adamantly spreading B.S. about ACA resulting in better health insurance coverage for people, but you also believe that it's purpose is to "kill the insurance industry?"
Even a nine-year-old could see through that lack of logic. One or the other is a pack of lies.
Okay, I can see you haven't found yourself the 9 year old; maybe you should consider why you scare so many of them away?

The ACA is going to (hopefully) kill off the insurers in at least two ways. First, it allows states to experiment, and as in the case with Vermont, that includes single payer. It also allows a public option which private insurers will not be able to compete with and will eventually turn into single payer in that state. Moreover, states are free to combine into regional exchanges. You may have not notice, given your apparent lack of operating at an adult level, but California is not only about the most Progressive state government in the country, it is also the biggest and the richest - it will eventually go public option and then inevitable single payer or it may go there directly. It is also talking with surrounding states about the longer-term possibility of a region-wide exchange that would include every significant state west of the Rockies (sorry, Idaho). Once California goes, game over. And it will fit with an increasingly Bluish nation as the demographics inevitable change states like Texas, Florida, Arizona, Virginia, North Carolina, and Georgia.

Second is the MLR requirement that limits the amount of premiums that can go to non-health care costs. Sure, the insurers are going to get a big bump from the initial sign-ups of the uninsured, but eventually we're back to an equilibrium where the insurers' profit growth comes only from population growth. It's going to make the business less and less appealing to investors while the ACA requirements continually snip at their heels. The insurers are going to start diversifying into other related (e.g. supplemental insurance) and unrelated businesses - the first indication will be consolidations starting sometime in 2016 to try to squeeze out efficiencies to stay sufficiently profitable to attract investor interest. It won't work for long. This will make it more politically viable for California to do its thing.

I realize that this is a lot for you to handle; I did slip into treating you as somewhat of a functioning adult. Go find that 9 year old; just try to look a little less desperate - maybe brush your hair, your teeth, change of clothes? Mom's not always going to be there, you know?
Last edited by playwrite; 11-27-2013 at 11:27 AM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5260 at 11-27-2013 11:03 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
How can you not know? We've got an example of exactly that kind of asshole right here!
Maybe if you accompanied your post with a selfie she would better grasp your (commendable!) self-recognition?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5261 at 11-27-2013 11:21 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Maybe if you accompanied your post with a selfie she would better grasp your (commendable!) self-recognition?
For fuck's sake, if you're going to do it, get it right!

"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#5262 at 11-27-2013 11:23 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I'm still not sure if he's that kind of asshole, or the kind who doesn't realize that insurance companies can't go broke and continue to pay people's claims at the same time.
Although the latter would probably be more of a "dumbfuck" than an "asshole."

Unfortunately, we've got plenty of both running the show right now.
Ah, so you're back to your role of posting the painfully obvious, I see. Will the sun be setting in the West today as well?

As the insurers withdraw from the field, it will help open the door to state exchanges offering a public option if not outright single payer.

Let me see if I can help you understand this. You may have notice as you were growing older and now fatter, that your dress size no longer fits. You've may have notice that mommy didnt' let you go to school just in your panties when this happened. You may remember it was actually a happy occassion when she takes you shopping and you get a new dress. It use to be a little longer than your last dress; now it is little wider - same phenomenon. It's nice that the outing makes you happy but that's not its primary purpose. Give it some thought and then find that 9 year old.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5263 at 11-27-2013 11:24 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
For fuck's sake, if you're going to do it, get it right!

I don't know; I've alway thought of you being less paunchy. I guess another thing you have in common with her.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5264 at 11-27-2013 11:33 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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For those having difficulty

ON this forum, there are a few folks that have become confused about what makes a liar (hint - its not one who makes you uncomfortable having to clarify your worldview) or an a-hole. For instructional purposes alone, here is a superb example of both in one -

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/11...fs-at-c/197048


Fox Blames Obamacare For Fictional Layoffs At Cleveland Clinic

ox News reported that the Cleveland Clinic was instituting "massive layoffs" due to the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, but when asked about the reports, a Clinic spokesperson told Media Matters, "We're not."

On November 25, The Daily Caller published an article titled, "Top U.S. hospital laying off staff due to Obamacare." On Fox Business' Markets Now, host Connell McShane reported on the "massive layoffs." America's Newsroom host Bill Hemmer claimed that the Cleveland Clinic was going to "shed workers." Later, during the America's News HQ, Fox reporter Chris Stirewalt claimed that the layoffs "rocked the community there in northeastern Ohio."

But there's one problem: the Cleveland Clinic is not laying off any employees. Eileen Sheil, Cleveland Clinic's Executive Director of Corporate Communications, said in an e-mail to Media Matters, "There have been several mis-reports and they keep mentioning that we're laying off 3,000 employees. We're not." Sheil explained that Cleveland Clinic is offering voluntary retirement to 3,000 eligible employees and that the Clinic is also "working on many initiatives to lower costs, drive efficiencies, reduce duplication of services across our system and provide quality care to our patients." Sheil continued, "Many of these initiatives do not impact our employees."

Sheil told Media Matters that Fox had been notified of its error and that the Cleveland Clinic requested Fox's future reporting on the issue more accurately present the Clinic's plans. According to a Media Matters search, Fox had not corrected its mistake by the time of publication.

Despite Fox's reporting, Sheil reiterated the Clinic's support for the Affordable Care Act, stating:

We believe reform is necessary because the current state is unsustainable. The ACA is a step toward that change and we believe more changes will come/evolve as there are still many uncertainties. Hospitals must be responsible and do what we can to prepare and support the law.

Fox's continued focus on the Cleveland Clinic is due, presumably, to President Obama's frequent praise of the hospital. In September, host Greta Van Susteren acknowledged the network's flawed reporting on the Cleveland Clinic after it was cited by U.S. Sen. John Barasso (R-WY) on her program.
Liar! Liar! Benghazi! Benzhazi! Mufasa! Musfasa!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5265 at 11-27-2013 11:43 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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McCarthyCruism - will you lie -

- to your kids and grandkids about whether or not you supported it?



http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/...re-mccarthyism

The Birth of Obamacare McCarthyism

We get it. Republicans don't like the Affordable Care Act, aka 'Obamacare'. But over the last few days I've noticed a new trend, or at least the frequency of it seems to be increasing. Let's call it Obamacare McCarthyism, a new intra-Republican political cudgel cued up for the 2014 political season, in which different anti-Obamacare Republicans attack each other for either being crypto-supporters of Obamacare, being Obamacare-curious or even just having earlier periods of Obamacare confusion.

Things got started yesterday with Rep. Jack Kingston (R-GA), who, despite being very conservative, is probably the only Republican candidate for the Georgia Senate nomination who doesn't make a habit of selling really crazy crap. Yesterday he said he doesn't think it's "the responsible thing to do" to simply let Obamacare collpase. Today he was attacked at Redstate.com for having "surrendered on Obamacare."

Today Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY), who's being haplessly primaried by Liz Cheney, was hit by an ad from the conservative SuperPac Americans for Job Security which quotes him from a 2010 conference on Health Care Reform in which he said "I like the exchanges. These exchanges can be good."

Good?" a voiceover in the ad responded. "Wyoming's Obamacare exchange has the most expensive premiums in the country, and it's marred by glitches."

The ad ends with the tagline "tell Mike Enzi we don't like these liberal, Big Government Obamacare exchanges."

Notably, Enzi is one of the most conservative members of the Senate, though he was the most conservative member of the so-called health care reform Gang of Six in 2009, who basically delayed things for 6 months or so before the White House realized there would be zero Republican support for Health Care Reform.

I know this is happened before. But I think it's a coming thing. Let me know if you see more examples.
- talk about a-holes.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5266 at 11-27-2013 11:51 AM by stilltim [at Chicago, IL joined Aug 2007 #posts 483]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
I love getting you guys to foam at the mouth incoherently. Obviously the incoherence is a giveme and the foaming isn't really that hard to induce. So, not much of a challenge but it's still fun!
You're apparently under the impression that I was actually angry.

No. I was laughing at you.







Post#5267 at 11-27-2013 12:05 PM by stilltim [at Chicago, IL joined Aug 2007 #posts 483]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Okay, I can see you haven't found yourself the 9 year old; maybe you should consider why you scare so many of them away?
Oh dear. Pulling the 9-year-old thing out for a THIRD time is it? You must think it's EXCELLENT advice. Not suprising. That's about the maturity level of most of what you're posting here. I'm sure you learned a lot from them.







Post#5268 at 11-27-2013 12:14 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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11-27-2013, 12:14 PM #5268
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
So what about all the folks currently forced to pay for insurance from soon-to-be bankrupt insurance companies? Let them eat cake?

LOL! "Now fatter?" You really are an idiot, aren't you:
Ah, we're going to be more civilized (I'm okay with you calling me an idiot particularly if accompanied with a "LOL!" and the revealing of physical features! ).

I don't think its going to be a jarring transition that will leave people actually hanging (not the "OMG, I haven't nailed down my insurance and I only have two months to go!" hysteria of late). I see it more as the insurers evolving into different business models and leaving the field to newly established state public options morphing into single payer. If any rare bankruptcy would result, the govt is going to arrange for uninterrupted coverage, but again, it probable will not be necessary. After CA goes public option, the transition will have less and less political events and become actually rather boring - something we should all hope happens to every aspect of the financial sector.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5269 at 11-27-2013 12:16 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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11-27-2013, 12:16 PM #5269
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Quote Originally Posted by stilltim View Post
Oh dear. Pulling the 9-year-old thing out for a THIRD time is it? You must think it's EXCELLENT advice. Not suprising. That's about the maturity level of most of what you're posting here. I'm sure you learned a lot from them.
I would certainly learn more from them than what I would from you. Please point to a single post of yours on this thread that offers anything of value on the topic.
Last edited by playwrite; 11-27-2013 at 12:19 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5270 at 11-27-2013 12:19 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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11-27-2013, 12:19 PM #5270
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
And omg, I just noticed this additional comment about my alleged heftiness:

What an ass.
Well that didn't last long.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5271 at 11-27-2013 12:22 PM by stilltim [at Chicago, IL joined Aug 2007 #posts 483]
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11-27-2013, 12:22 PM #5271
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Quote Originally Posted by Bill66 View Post
Here's my friend's situation:

He's mid-40's living in Colorado with his wife, no children. Applied thru the ACA state exchange here about 10 days ago. A few technical glitches, but pretty easy as far as health care applications go, and many fewer questions "shining a spotlight up his rectum" as he experienced a few years ago applying for individual insurance. Worst thing is the state can't seem to verify on it's own that he's a taxpaying U.S. citizen, so he'll have to scan & upload documents to prove it to them. He had a few questions about this & other stuff, so he called their help line, which took some time as well, though not as bad as going to the DMV, according to him. The phone call got all of his questions answered, & he and his wife are currently enrolled for January 2014 coverage.

His main question was to confirm the price quote he got, which seemed too low to be true. He got insurance for his wife and himself, and got a quote (after tax credits) for a silver-level plan that was less expensive than he currently pays for individual coverage on himself only. He thought maybe the quote was for each of them, but turns out it was for both of them. His current (pre-ACA) individual coverage is basically catastrophic coverage only ($5000 deductible HSA plan with 100% coverage if he manages to spend over $5000 on medical bills in a given calendar year, no copays or anything, ie 1st $5000 each year is completely out of pocket including medicine). The silver level plan is much much better than this, similar to what his wife currently has through her employer (silver plan: $1500 deductible, but copays for all doctor visits & medicine even before deductible, 70% coverage after deductible kicks in to a maximum out-of-pocket cost of $5200 per year per person, after which insurance pays 100%). She will be reducing her work hours, and will no longer be eligible for her employer coverage, so will switch to the comparable silver-level ACA plan.

Oh, and she has a pre-existing condition, so was hanging on to her current full-time employment in part because of the health coverage. The COBRA extension cost for her alone if she had quit prior to ACA would have been approximately twice what the current ACA plan costs for both of them. After 18 months of COBRA, she would have been SOL in most states, but in CO would have qualified for a somewhat affordable state insurance exchange that was in operation prior to ACA, available for those with pre-existing conditions (still, combined with his individual insurance plan more than twice what they'll expect to pay thru ACA).
I'm glad it's worked out so well for your friend. But, for every one story like that, there are many, many stories that go the other way. In fact, your friend's situation is apparently so rare that proponents of the bill are having to pay people to find positive stories.

http://capitolcityproject.com/non-pa...nroll-america/

Hey, maybe your friend should contact these people. Maybe there's another payoff in it for him.







Post#5272 at 11-27-2013 12:34 PM by stilltim [at Chicago, IL joined Aug 2007 #posts 483]
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11-27-2013, 12:34 PM #5272
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
And omg, I just noticed this additional comment about my alleged heftiness:

What an ass.
You know it would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Some libs are so incapable of dealing with opposing viewpoints that personal attacks are the only counter argument they know how to make.

Maybe they should be forced to listen to conservative spin every time they turn on the news like most conservatives had to deal with liberal spin for most of our lives. Maybe then, they'd at least know how to deal with an opposing view without throwing a tantrum.







Post#5273 at 11-27-2013 12:37 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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11-27-2013, 12:37 PM #5273
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Sorry, it looks like another door closes on the hoped-for continued misery

And for Stilltim and others hoping the lack of the young signing up will stop millions from getting health coverage, some bad news -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...67c_story.html

Five myths about ‘young invincibles’

Coined by the health insurance industry, the term “young invincibles” has come to describe 18-to-34-year-olds who go without coverage because they expect to remain healthy. But young invincibles are crucial to making the Affordable Care Act work: The White House is counting on them to buy coverage under the new law, helping to spread the risk and hold down premiums for everybody. Let’s debunk a few myths about who these uninsured young people are and what they want from the health-care system.

1. Young adults are uninformed about the health-care law.

Young adults tend to be about as aware of the health-care law as the rest of the population. A Kaiser Family Foundation poll in August found that 33 percent of adults had heard nothing about their state health insurance exchanges. That figure was 43 percent among 18-to-25-year-olds and 41 percent among 26-to-35-year-olds. Separate polling from the Pew Research Center found that young adults were more aware than any other demographic that the health-care law offers subsidies for low-income Americans to purchase insurance. However, they were less aware of the requirement to buy coverage.

Young Americans are especially aware of the provisions that affect their own coverage options, most prominently the option to stay on their parents’ insurance plans until age 26. A Commonwealth Fund poll in March found that 62 percent of young adults knew of that program.

2. They don’t want health insurance.

Young adults do have the highest uninsured rate of any demographic, with about 27 percent of people between 19 and 34 lacking insurance coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. But health-care experts say this doesn’t necessarily mean that they don’t want insurance, but rather that they are less likely to be offered coverage through their employers. That’s because more young people work part-time or hourly-wage jobs that do not offer health benefits. When offered coverage by their employers, about 80 percent of young adults sign up — about the same rate as older workers.

Millions of young adults have also gained coverage under the health law’s provision that allows them to stay on their parents’ health insurance until they’re 26. The Department of Health and Human Services estimates that, since this option became available in 2010, more than 3 million young adults have taken advantage of their parents’ insurance plans.

When the Kaiser Family Foundation surveyed young adults about health insurance coverage in June, it found that about three in four said it is “very important” to them to have health insurance.

3. They don’t need health insurance.

While young adults tend to have lower health-care costs, without coverage they can incur substantial bills. One Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study found that 17 percent of women ages 18 to 29, and 13 percent of men, have a chronic condition such as cancer or diabetes. Federal data show that young adults have higher rates of car accidents, which could lead to pricey medical bills. The high cost of maternity care can be another concern for young adults, with the average charges ranging upward of $32,000, according to a study published this year by Truven Health Analytics.

Young adults without insurance report difficulties accessing care and paying their medical bills. A 2011 study from the Commonwealth Fund found that more than half of uninsured young adults reported having a medical problem but not seeking treatment. Among insured young adults, that number was 19 percent. That same survey found that 51 percent of uninsured young adults had difficulty paying medical bills, with 26 percent having been contacted by a collection agency.

4. Young people will face steep premiums in the insurance exchanges.

The health-care law makes radical changes to the market for buying health coverage as an individual. For the first time, it requires insurers to accept all customers regardless of any preexisting health conditions. It also limits the amount that insurers can charge the oldest adults — premiums for elderly customers can’t exceed three times the amount charged to the youngest subscribers.

To make the math work — and to cover the medical bills of older, sicker enrollees — insurers have often had to raise rates for young adults. They have also had to cancel some of the plans they offer younger subscribers, which tend to have lower premiums but less-robust benefit packages. That means that, in the exchanges, young shoppers might see much higher sticker prices and experience what the news media has called “rate shock.”

However, many young adults won’t have to pay the full price. Instead, most will qualify either for Medicaid — the public health program that serves low-income Americans — or for tax subsidies to help buy coverage. The nonprofit Families USA, which supports the health-care law, estimates that about 9.3 million people between 18 and 34 will qualify for a subsidy to purchase health insurance. Between these subsidies and Medicaid, the government estimates that about four in 10 young Americans will pay a monthly premium of less than $100 for a plan under the federal law.

Emily Wright, a 28-year-old student in Tennessee who had previously been without health insurance because of a preexisting condition, found a top-tier plan that cost $244 per month. Because she qualifies for a federal subsidy of $119, she is paying only $125 each month toward that premium. Since Tennessee isn’t expanding Medicaid, she worried that she might not receive financial help: “I was nervous about what I was going to be paying, but it was actually a great deal.”

5. Young people aren’t signing up for Obamacare yet.

While they haven’t made up the majority of the health-care law’s participants so far, young adults do account for some enrollment. In states that have released demographic information, such as Washington and California, young adults were about 20 percent of the first month’s enrollment. In California, the state exchange had 6,924 people between ages 18 and 34 sign up for coverage, accounting for almost 24 percent of all enrollments in October.

Officials at state insurance exchanges say they expected older and sicker consumers to sign up first. They think younger people will sign up later in the open-enrollment period, which runs through March. White House officials have said they need about 40 percent of the consumers who buy plans on the exchanges to be younger than 35. “Those are pretty solid enrollment numbers for a younger demographic,” said Michael Marchand, a spokesman for Washington state’s Healthplanfinder. “Ideally we’d like to see the number go up in coming months.”
So some good news there for the young and Obamacare.

But cheer up, Stilltim, under #5, we're still pretty far from that 40% target; maybe you'll still get to relish in other people's misery after all! Got your fingers and toes crossed? You know, there's a lot of kids without insurance that can't physically do that? Must make you gleeful!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5274 at 11-27-2013 12:40 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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11-27-2013, 12:40 PM #5274
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Quote Originally Posted by stilltim View Post
You know it would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Some libs are so incapable of dealing with opposing viewpoints that personal attacks are the only counter argument they know how to make.

Maybe they should be forced to listen to conservative spin every time they turn on the news like most conservatives had to deal with liberal spin for most of our lives. Maybe then, they'd at least know how to deal with an opposing view without throwing a tantrum.
You need to look up-thread and on other threads of who starts with the 'assholes' and 'dumbfucks' in most cases.

However, I do admit when I run across morons like you, gleeful at the prospect of millions continuing to live in misery, I'm more that willing to point you out with pleasure. I enjoy it.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5275 at 11-27-2013 12:49 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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11-27-2013, 12:49 PM #5275
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Quote Originally Posted by stilltim View Post
I'm glad it's worked out so well for your friend. But, for every one story like that, there are many, many stories that go the other way. In fact, your friend's situation is apparently so rare that proponents of the bill are having to pay people to find positive stories.

http://capitolcityproject.com/non-pa...nroll-america/

Hey, maybe your friend should contact these people. Maybe there's another payoff in it for him.
Absolutely ass-F-in backwards horseshit.

80% of the population is untouched; 15% are those uninsured who will get the chance to get insurance for the first time with 71% of them being subsidized in full or in part. Only 5% will be having to buy new insurance; most of them will be subsidized as well.

Only 1.3% of the population will be those that previously had insurance will now have to buy new insurance without subsidies. Most of them had junk policies that are not only near worthless, but cause the rest of us to have higher premiums.

There will be a magnitude of order of people with good stories over those with 'bad' stories, and when you look into most of those 'bad' stories in any detail they're going to prove to be horseshit tales. You just have to stop watching Faux News and listening to Rush, dittohead.

If you're just acting like a moron, go get your facts straight. If you're just another shill propagating horseshit, go F yourself.
Last edited by playwrite; 11-27-2013 at 12:57 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
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