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Thread: It's time for national healthcare - Page 216







Post#5376 at 12-06-2013 02:58 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
To clear up a myth, emergency rooms in private hospitals have a limited set of duties with those kind of patients. Here is a summary of the law:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1305897/
When my hubby worked in the non-for-profit hospital, every patient was treated the same, with or without insurance. And from the perspective of our friends who work in the non-for-profit's their experience is the same. Depending on the area of those hospitals, some even see a far greater number of the uninsured and they have to either eat those costs or file them under the limited number of charity care. Hospitals with a large population of homeless people also find themselves in another predicament. Some of these poor souls will fake illness in extreme weather for a warm place to sleep and a meal. My question would be; is the privately owned hospital under a different set of laws?
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5377 at 12-06-2013 03:48 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
I don't have time to Google it right now, but I distinctly recall that he did not call for a single payer health plan as a candidate in 2007/2008. I think his plan for the exchanges did include a public option, which was dropped from the final legislation by Congress.
He may not have promised single payer in his campaign but was very much a proponent of it from early in his career. What he did do was indicate that he would at least promote it, which he didn't. The main participants in his negotiating talks were from the insurance industry. When you won't even invite those to the table who speak for the public option and single payer, then you have made loud statement about whose side your taking. That was clearly not middle ground when only one side of the issue is at the table.

To not even include the voice of single payer when he knew just how crucial this movement is to the American public, is very sad. Take for instance his relationship with his personal physician.

"First, it should be noted that in addition to whatever policy analysis he has done, Obama actually has something of a personal connection to knowing about single payer since (I am not breaking any confidentiality here, since it is public knowledge) the physician group that he has been going to for years for his own personal medical care includes one the most famous physician single payer (and all around progressive political) advocates, Dr. Quentin Young. Given the political activism of that physician group and the young Mr. Obama’s interests in politics and policy, one can assume it has been discussed during check-ups! Obama attended Quentin’s 80th birthday back in 2003."

Then let's look at his speech to the most powerful union in America when he wanted their votes.

Full quote from Obama in 2003:

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.” (applause) “I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”

Obama speaking to the Illinois AFL-CIO, June 30, 2003.

He knew what was best but let campaign money trump his need to at the very least fight for a public option. Instead he caved to the Republican plan. That's the sad truth.
Last edited by Deb C; 12-06-2013 at 03:51 PM.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5378 at 12-06-2013 04:29 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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I don't mind paying my share so that all Americans can have health care. I feel as if that's my contribution to being part of a community. What I do mind is that my tax dollars are now making the insurance industry even more wealthy. Then to think that they use that wealth to fill the pockets of the politicians, who then in turn, work for them, is down right disgusting.

" If health-care investors are throwing a party, it might be because the rest of us are paying for it."


Nobody Should Get Rich Off Obamacare

By Evan Soltas
Bloomberg, The Ticker, Dec. 3, 2013

For an industry that's supposed to be burdened by the launch of Obamacare, the health-care business is doing pretty well. Stocks of health-care companies are up almost 40 percent this year, the strongest performance of any sector in the S&P 500.


This is despite, for insurers, new regulations on the "medical loss ratio" which require them to spend at least 80 percent of premiums on health care -- in practice, capping their profits and administrative expenses such as advertising at 20 percent. How about the medical-technology manufacturers that were slapped with an excise tax? Doing just fine. The hospital chains that face lower reimbursement rates from Medicare patients? They're doing well, too.


Health care is a business, and businesses are supposed to make money. Still, it's a bit concerning that health-care investors are so upbeat just as President Barack Obama's health-reform law goes into effect.


It makes you wonder where the new profits are expected to come from. If they're earned in a competitive market, great -- but health care in the U.S. hasn’t been a free market in decades, so it’s worth turning a skeptical eye.



The law will give the insurance industry millions of new customers and subsidizes its products. It brings millions of others into the market for health-care services through its Medicaid expansion. If health-care investors are throwing a party, it might be because the rest of us are paying for it.
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2013/decemb...-off-obamacare
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5379 at 12-06-2013 04:37 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Any questions about where the model for the ACA came from?


ROMNEYCARE WAS THE MODEL FOR OBAMACARE

Headline: “Romneycare Was ‘Template’ For Obamacare” [James Pethokoukis, American Enterprise Institute, 1/26/12]

Politifact: The Massachusetts Plan Did Serve As A Model For The Affordable Care Act. “‘Romneycare was model for Obamacare.’ Rick Perry on Tuesday, October 11th, 2011 in a tweet… Although the federal law isn’t an exact replica of the one in Massachusetts, the plan signed by Romney certainly served as a model. We rate the statement as True.” [Politifact, 10/21/11]

Wall Street Journal: “Everyone Knows, The Health Reform Mr. Romney Passed In 2006 As Massachusetts Governor Was The Prototype For President Obama’s Version And Gave National Health Care A Huge Political Boost.” [Editorial, Wall Street Journal, 5/12/11]

ROMNEYCARE OFFICIALS HELPED WITH THE CREATION OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT
White House Records Show Senior Obama Administration Officials Used Romneycare As A Model For The Affordable Care Act Including Recruiting Romney’s Own Health Care Advisers To Craft The National Bill. NBC wrote on Romney’s health care advisors, advising the White House on health care reform: “Newly obtained White House records provide fresh details on how senior Obama administration officials used Mitt Romney’s landmark health-care law in Massachusetts as a model for the new federal law, including recruiting some of Romney’s own health care advisers and experts to help craft the act now derided by Republicans as ‘Obamacare.’” [NBC, 10/10/11]


The Hill Headline: “Architect Of Romney’s Health Bill Says It’s ‘The Same’ As Obama’s.” [Hill, 11/16/11]


Jonathan Gruber:Make No Mistake: The Affordable Care Act Is Based On Massachusetts’s Success,” And Several Of The Architects Of Romneycare Worked Closely With The Obama Administration “To Translate The Lessons From Massachusetts Onto The National Stage.”

Jonathan Gruber, Professor of Economics at MIT wrote, “The core of the ACA is the same ‘three legged stool’ that was first developed in Massachusetts. Several of the architects of Massachusetts reform, including myself, worked closely with the Administration and Congress to translate the lessons from Massachusetts onto the national stage. And experts project that the ACA will have similar success, reducing the number of uninsured Americans by 30 million.” [Jonathan Gruber Op-Ed, The Republican on MassLive, 4/11/12]
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5380 at 12-06-2013 05:15 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
He may not have promised single payer in his campaign but was very much a proponent of it from early in his career. What he did do was indicate that he would at least promote it, which he didn't. The main participants in his negotiating talks were from the insurance industry. When you won't even invite those to the table who speak for the public option and single payer, then you have made loud statement about whose side your taking. That was clearly not middle ground when only one side of the issue is at the table.

To not even include the voice of single payer when he knew just how crucial this movement is to the American public, is very sad. Take for instance his relationship with his personal physician.

"First, it should be noted that in addition to whatever policy analysis he has done, Obama actually has something of a personal connection to knowing about single payer since (I am not breaking any confidentiality here, since it is public knowledge) the physician group that he has been going to for years for his own personal medical care includes one the most famous physician single payer (and all around progressive political) advocates, Dr. Quentin Young. Given the political activism of that physician group and the young Mr. Obama’s interests in politics and policy, one can assume it has been discussed during check-ups! Obama attended Quentin’s 80th birthday back in 2003."

Then let's look at his speech to the most powerful union in America when he wanted their votes.

Full quote from Obama in 2003:

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.” (applause) “I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”

Obama speaking to the Illinois AFL-CIO, June 30, 2003.

He knew what was best but let campaign money trump his need to at the very least fight for a public option. Instead he caved to the Republican plan. That's the sad truth.
What drove BHO to the right was the magnitude of being President with so little personal experience and DC social capital to draw on. So, he drew on the easiest resources: the Clintons and Rahm Emmanual. The rest fell rapidly into place.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#5381 at 12-06-2013 07:24 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
What drove BHO to the right was the magnitude of being President with so little personal experience and DC social capital to draw on. So, he drew on the easiest resources: the Clintons and Rahm Emmanual. The rest fell rapidly into place.
A steel-cage deathmatch between Rahm and Karl Rove would be amusing...







Post#5382 at 12-06-2013 07:45 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
A steel-cage deathmatch between Rahm and Karl Rove would be amusing...
Since they are almost identical in tactics and manipulation, it would most likely end in a tie.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5383 at 12-06-2013 08:27 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
...He knew what was best but let campaign money trump his need to at the very least fight for a public option. Instead he caved to the Republican plan. That's the sad truth.
He's going to achieve getting millions on Medicaid and millions more getting insurance for the first time for little or no cost.

You have not helped one single person. All you do is bitch about the one guy who has.

You are a toad.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5384 at 12-06-2013 08:33 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
I don't mind paying my share so that all Americans can have health care. I feel as if that's my contribution to being part of a community. What I do mind is that my tax dollars are now making the insurance industry even more wealthy. Then to think that they use that wealth to fill the pockets of the politicians, who then in turn, work for them, is down right disgusting.

" If health-care investors are throwing a party, it might be because the rest of us are paying for it."


Nobody Should Get Rich Off Obamacare


http://www.pnhp.org/news/2013/decemb...-off-obamacare
Like most of the stock market, health insurance stocks are JUST back where they were before the 2007/08 meltdown. In that 5-6 year period, that is a pitiful investment.

Most of the return has been in the last couple years. People who cheery pick that time period are doing it to deliberately deceive people.

And only those desperately wanting to hold onto their ignorance and false worldviews propagate this kind of horseshit propaganda. Shame on you.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5385 at 12-06-2013 08:52 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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A mark contrast

- to the lying a-hole naysayers and do-nothing hand-wringers around here -

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...7.story?page=1

A healthcare navigator in unfriendly waters

Snow came early to the cotton and sorghum fields here, sending dozens of cash-strapped families to the food bank on a recent afternoon for frozen chickens, cucumbers and canned green beans.

Quinetta Rascoe was waiting for them.

Wearing a bright pink overcoat, a glittery rainbow scarf and an infectious grin, Rascoe climbed out of a Toyota sedan carrying a stack of Obamacare brochures.

She eyed about 60 cars that were snaking into the parking lot behind Murfreesboro Baptist Church, prompting an unusual traffic jam one block off the town's dozy Main Street.

The food truck was late, and white plumes floated up from mufflers as the drivers switched their engines on and off and on again to warm themselves with blasts of heat.

"OK," Rascoe said, grabbing a pile of freshly printed business cards. "Let's go talk to people."

Rascoe is one of thousands of foot soldiers hired nationwide to sign Americans up for coverage under President Obama's Affordable Care Act.

Her task is made all the more challenging because she works in one of the Republican-led states openly hostile to the act. The GOP-controlled Legislature ordered state health officials not to cooperate with the federal program.

Many of the people in this rural swath of North Carolina — despite being among the neediest potential beneficiaries of Obamacare — remain skeptical and uninformed.

Walking up to the first vehicle, Rascoe smiled, shuffled on the balls of her feet and wiggled her fingers to get the perplexed driver of a dinged blue pickup to roll down the window. She explained she was there to answer questions about the Affordable Care Act.

The man mumbled a greeting, took the flier and quickly rolled up the window.

"Next car!" Rascoe said.

She felt lucky if she could persuade a driver to crack open the car window to take her card and a brochure. Some ignored her, a few listened politely.

"I just smile and give them the information; sometimes a light bulb goes off later and they call," Rascoe said.

One woman in a Chevy Bronco said she'd heard on the news that the website was down and no one could get enrolled. "Turn off the TV!" Rascoe chided. "Come down, and I'll help you out." The woman said she'd think about making an appointment.

Rascoe, 37, works most days in a small office at the Roanoke Chowan Community Health Center in nearby Ahoskie. The mouse for her desktop computer rests on a yellow foam pad stamped in red with the outline of a Trojan, the mascot for the University of Southern California, where she is taking online courses toward a master's degree in social work. A USC banner pinned to the wall reads: "Fight on."

When a person walks into her office, Rascoe asks questions to suss out whether the customer qualifies for the healthcare exchanges or for other federal programs like Medicare or Medicaid. She also tells the customer about a program at the health clinic that offers discounted rates based on a patient's income level.

At the moment, Rascoe's the only person at the clinic who is dedicated full time to signing people up for medical coverage. Local organizations across the state received a total of $7 million in federal grants to train and hire 300 Obamacare counselors.

But beyond a two-day online training course, a stack of government-issued brochures, business cards and a cellphone provided by the health center, Rascoe is largely on her own to come up with ways to find the uninsured.

It's a stark difference from other states that are trying to bolster enrollment by launching their own websites and ad campaigns and enlisting state employees to help people find insurance.

Instead, North Carolina rejected $23 million in federal money that could have been used to educate and assist more than a million uninsured in the state. It also turned away $4 billion in federal funds to expand the Medicaid program for the poor.

Lack of awareness and bad press in North Carolina have made Rascoe's attempts to enroll people more difficult. "I don't feel that the law was designed for people to go sign up on a whim," she said. "It takes education."

During October, the month the healthcare exchanges opened, about 1,600 people in North Carolina signed up for coverage — only 12% of the number officials expected, according to federal figures.

None of those were Rascoe's clients. Since then, she has completed the enrollment process with four applicants.

Like millions of other Americans, Rascoe has been hindered by the malfunctioning federal website, which makes it arduous to get information about potential premium subsidies or plan options. Instead, she relies heavily on the toll-free hotline and regular mail.

One of her biggest challenges is simply tracking down potential enrollees. Because the rural, impoverished county doesn't have a YMCA or a community center where families congregate, she hits churches, colleges and food banks like the one in Murfreesboro. She persuaded the electric company to include more than 9,000 fliers on Obamacare with December's electricity bills.

She has given out her number at grocery stores and introduced herself at hair salons. She plans to set up an information table at the Wal-Mart Supercenter in Ahoskie.

Handing out bread and boxes of Cheez-Its at the food bank, Rascoe made eye contact with a lot of the families she had been soliciting in line. "You better come see me," she said into the window of a car before it drove away.

Though the work can be frustrating, Rascoe said, it still beats her last job as a debt collector. After spending six years telephoning the poorest families in the county to coax them into paying outstanding bills, she finds it more rewarding to help many of those same people find insurance that could save them hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars a year.

Half of the families around here earn less than $31,000 a year, making Hertford one of the state's poorest counties. It's a region where during harvest time, the highway shoulders are dusted with white cotton bolls blown off tractors, and where, if residents aren't farming the land, they're working at the nearby steel mill, poultry plant or federal prison.

The small towns around here were built more than 200 years ago in the boom days of cotton and tobacco and never got much bigger. Even fellow North Carolinians know the area mostly as a web of two-lane highways leading to the beaches of the Outer Banks.

Rascoe's grandfather was one of 10 children born on a small piece of land his family owned and farmed in Ahoskie. He fled Hertford County in the 1940s to find a job as a sanitation worker and started a family in New York City, where Rascoe was born to his only son.

Rascoe's family later moved to Pittsburgh so her brother, who had Kawasaki syndrome, could visit specialists at Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, known for its treatment of the rare vascular disorder. She saw the expensive medical care strain her family's finances.

"This is personal for me," Rascoe said.

On cold days, she still wears a black wool headband embroidered with the Pittsburgh Steelers diamond logo.

Several years ago, Rascoe relocated to the family homestead and moved into the small three-bedroom house with blue aluminum siding her grandfather grew up in. Her roots in the area help Rascoe identify with the locals' concerns.

"They are scared," she said. She tries to dispel myths about the law: No, the government can't access your bank account, Rascoe tells people. Yes, it is possible to sign up even though the website is slow. Some are put off by how much personal financial information they need to provide in order to register.

She had three people walk out when the website asked them to confirm details pulled from their credit history, such as a car lease, a previous address or a former employer. The questions pop up to prevent fraud.

"They'll be back," Rascoe said. "I don't rush anybody."

Other times it's simply a matter of introducing people to basic technology that most Americans take for granted. After she helped one client set up an email account, the woman immediately dialed a family member to announce: "Grandma's got an email address!"

Constance Boyce, 63, a hairdresser who makes about $14,000 a year, came into Rascoe's office on a recent morning to find out whether she qualifies for federal subsidies. Boyce had canceled her private medical insurance earlier this year when she visited a doctor about a pain in her arm and learned she needed to pay a $10,000 deductible before the plan would cover any costs.

Boyce, who wore a tweed suit for the appointment, sat next to Rascoe and watched HealthCare.gov load on the screen. But Boyce couldn't get past the first step of the website because she forgot the password for her email, which she needed to set up and verify a new account.

Rascoe then dialed the federal hotline and handed Boyce the receiver. During the call, Boyce looked to Rascoe to explain some of the jargon used to describe insurance policies, like "co-pay" and "deductible." The pair set up Boyce's insurance account over the phone, but she'll have to wait for the government to send her plan options in the mail.

Nevertheless, Boyce was confident she'd qualify for a subsidy. She left satisfied.

"I'm quite elated," she said.

And Rascoe earned the kind of endorsement that can go a long way in Hertford. Back at Boyce's salon in the nearby town of Winton, a stack of Rascoe's business cards won a coveted spot on the counter, next to those for Boyce's favorite mechanic and orthopedic surgeon.

brian.bennett@latimes.com
God bless Quinetta Rascoe and the other DOERs out there

"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5386 at 12-06-2013 09:25 PM by princeofcats67 [at joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,995]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
... You are a toad(y).
Um, no.

That would be me!


Prince
I Am A Child of God/Nature/The Universe
I Think Globally and Act Individually(and possibly, voluntarily join-together with Others)
I Pray for World Peace & I Choose Less-Just Say: "NO!, Thank You."







Post#5387 at 12-07-2013 05:23 AM by '58 Flat [at Hardhat From Central Jersey joined Jul 2001 #posts 3,300]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
There is a case moving into the Supreme Court that challenges the right of RC-owned and operated hospitals to refuse abortions to women clearly at risk of dying. The hosptial in question was the only one within reasonable distance, and the next closest one was also an RC-owned and operated hospital.

In this case, a woman presented with an 18-week old fetus and hemoraging. The hospital stopped the bleeding and sent her home ... twice. On the third visit, she was bleeding profusely, and the fetus miscarried. After that, they treated her, but she suffered permanent injuries.

So no, the RC absolutist view of abortion is clearly unacceptable. Will a majority RC judiciary (6 of the 9) favor the woman or the church?


You know and I know that a truly infinitesimal percentage of abortions fit into that category.

This is taking a spectacular exception and trotting it out as the rule, and it is thoroughly dishonest - just as the nativist crowd throws up the "Muslim terrorists are pouring across the Mexican border" red herring to justify their draconian calls for closing the border.
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.

Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!







Post#5388 at 12-07-2013 11:58 AM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by princeofcats67 View Post
Um, no.

That would be me!


Prince
I just love toads.

"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5389 at 12-07-2013 01:18 PM by sbrombacher [at NC joined Jun 2012 #posts 875]
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Toads are amazing.







Post#5390 at 12-08-2013 11:03 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by '58 Flat View Post
You know and I know that a truly infinitesimal percentage of abortions fit into that category.

This is taking a spectacular exception and trotting it out as the rule, and it is thoroughly dishonest - just as the nativist crowd throws up the "Muslim terrorists are pouring across the Mexican border" red herring to justify their draconian calls for closing the border.
This is not an abortion case. It has to do with the rights of patients and medical providers. Hospitals have certificates of need that allow them to exist. If an RC hospital acquires one, they should also acquire the responsibilities that go with it. They have no right to limit the rights of others, to say nothing of purposefully putting their patients at risk.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#5391 at 12-08-2013 12:12 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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The *Hunger Games* begin. The for profit insurance industry that's now been fed steroids by ACA, is creating another dilemma for the 99%. Primary care docs are leaving for a fee for service that gives you access to doctors for a fee. Eventually, only those who can afford the for service fees will get quick and quality service, while the rest of us will have extremely long waits to be seen by the remaining primary care physicians. Can we blame the doc who makes $200,000 a year, out of which, malpractice insurance, office rental and staff has to be paid? Sure, they have the option of joining a hospital practice that micro-manages them and holds them hostage with approval scores of perfection. Our health care system has put us all inbetween a rock and a very hard place!!

Enhanced Medical Care for an Annual Fee


Because there has been so much excess in the system, and because American doctors are among the highest paid in the developed world, their complaints about diminishing returns — a strain of grievance that has intensified around the Affordable Care Act — are hardly immediate triggers of our collective sympathy. Median compensation for practitioners of internal medicine was about $210,000 last year.

And yet Dr. Goldberg’s experience illustrates the difficulties primary-care physicians often face in a city where staffing and real estate costs vastly outpace those in the rest of the country. By the time Dr. Goldberg stopped taking insurance in 2009 he had become unable to deliver the level of patient service he aspired to and couldn’t afford to maintain his practice as it stood, he told me.
“I really had nothing left to lose,” he said.

The health care market in New York is sufficiently unusual that members of the affluent classes routinely question the merits of doctors who do take insurance. How could the doctor satisfied to receive a $20 co-pay also be the doctor skilled enough to know that your palm’s itch is really the early sign of something rare and disfiguring? This psychology, along with the cost-cutting strategies pursued by insurance companies over the years, have driven the field of concierge medicine — typically, boutique general practices that charge premiums for enhanced attention. Five years ago there were 28 concierge doctors in the New York metropolitan area, according to the group Concierge Medicine Today, which studies the field. Today there are 124.
In recent years, some of Dr. Goldberg’s patients have made unusual requests that he has obliged. In one instance, when a patient didn’t want to be seen having a colonoscopy, Dr. Goldberg closed his office for four hours to grant her more privacy. Another requested allergy shots at home and another his accompaniment to a stressful M.R.I. where Dr. Goldberg held the patient’s toe to supply comfort.

All of this led him and a new partner, Daniel Yadegar, a cardiologist and specialist in integrative and anti-aging medicine, educated at Harvard and Cornell, to embark on a whole new kind of practice, one in which patients — and there will be no more than 400 — will pay $25,000 a year for unfettered access to the doctors. Patients will be able to call and see and text the doctors whenever they want; they will be able to receive home visits, though those will cost extra (and so will lab work). They will be able to ask their doctors to travel to them should they suspect the onset of illness in June in Umbria. Various young Internet moguls have already expressed interest in becoming patients of the practice, which will start next month, Dr. Goldberg said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/08/ny...nnual-fee.html

After you read this, think about the salaries of the CEO's in the private insurance industry. Here's just a sample:



UnitedHealth CEO
Stephen J. Hemsley

2007 Compensation
$13.2 million

2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$3,241,042

Former Managing Partner and CFO of Arthur Andersen (BusinessWeek)

Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$744,232,068

2009 Options Exercise
$127,001,281

Value of Wayzata, Minnesota Home (Hennepin County Assessor)
$6,640,000

Articles:

Hemsley returns $190 million in stock options acquired as a result of practices found to be fraudulent by the SEC(American Medical News)

CIGNA CEO
Edward Hanway

Five-Year Compensation, as of April 30, 2008 (Forbes)
$120.51 million

Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$28,881,000

Value of New Jersey Beach Home (Cape May County Assessor)
$13,607,400

Articles:

The family of a 17-year-old girl who died hours after CIGNA reversed a decision and said it would pay for a liver transplant plans to sue the company, their attorney said Friday. (Oakland Tribune)

Hundreds of entertainment industry workers in California and New Jersey who buy health insurance as a group are being hit with a rate increase that will raise some family-plan premiums to more than $44,000 a year. (USA Today)

Humana CEO
Michael McCallister

2007 Compensation
$10.3 million

2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$1,017,308

Five-Year Compensation Total (Forbes)
$15.1 million

Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$60,865,194

2006 Options Exercise(SECForm4)
$22,294,710

Value of Park City, Utah Home (County Assessor)
$6,978,380

Articles:

Humana abandons senior citizens in Florida, returns after Republicans pass new Medicare law, upping HMO payments by ~ 25% (NY Times)


Last edited by Deb C; 12-08-2013 at 12:15 PM.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5392 at 12-08-2013 12:53 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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12-08-2013, 12:53 PM #5392
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Huge compensation is hardly the exclusive domain of executives in the health-insurance business; it is everywhere. Such is a consequence of oligopoly and the concentration of political power. It applies as much to insurance executives as it does to those in the media, banking, and manufacturing. The current model of economic power is to get it, use it to drive competition into ruin, treat employees and captive customers badly, bribe politicians, and get extremely rich. The elites can be expected to become hereditary. What else do you expect of the spoiled-brat kids of American executives? That they could become medical missionaries?

Just think of how bad the Soviet Union was in achieving social equity despite separating productive assets from owners. Marx had prophesied that by dispossessing capitalists and landowners, a new Socialist order responsive to workers and peasants would share the wealth equitably and foster rapid economic growth. What happened? In the end the managerial elite and political hacks enriched themselves at the expense of everyone else -- and they needed never own anything. They proved as exploitative as the old aristocrats and tycoons.

We are trending toward "managerial socialism" in which a few people own everything (which means that the formality of capitalism and a stream of profits), and others are slowly dispossessed and made dependent upon the beneficence of elites. The ideal of managerial capitalism is that people get what some elite deems necessary for them and that when people are troublesome the needs are no longer met. People are never allowed enough with which to save or invest. Maybe if they are young enough they can be allotted welfare so that they can raise children to be cannon fodder and cheap labor.

Healthcare coverage is but one aspect of a destruction of competition among elites but also the consolidation of power within those elites.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#5393 at 12-08-2013 03:08 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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12-08-2013, 03:08 PM #5393
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Huge compensation is hardly the exclusive domain of executives in the health-insurance business; it is everywhere. Such is a consequence of oligopoly and the concentration of political power. It applies as much to insurance executives as it does to those in the media, banking, and manufacturing. The current model of economic power is to get it, use it to drive competition into ruin, treat employees and captive customers badly, bribe politicians, and get extremely rich. The elites can be expected to become hereditary. What else do you expect of the spoiled-brat kids of American executives? That they could become medical missionaries?

Just think of how bad the Soviet Union was in achieving social equity despite separating productive assets from owners. Marx had prophesied that by dispossessing capitalists and landowners, a new Socialist order responsive to workers and peasants would share the wealth equitably and foster rapid economic growth. What happened? In the end the managerial elite and political hacks enriched themselves at the expense of everyone else -- and they needed never own anything. They proved as exploitative as the old aristocrats and tycoons.

We are trending toward "managerial socialism" in which a few people own everything (which means that the formality of capitalism and a stream of profits), and others are slowly dispossessed and made dependent upon the beneficence of elites. The ideal of managerial capitalism is that people get what some elite deems necessary for them and that when people are troublesome the needs are no longer met. People are never allowed enough with which to save or invest. Maybe if they are young enough they can be allotted welfare so that they can raise children to be cannon fodder and cheap labor.

Healthcare coverage is but one aspect of a destruction of competition among elites but also the consolidation of power within those elites.
What you write has much wisdom. Indeed, over compensation is everywhere. However, huge compensation for the insurance industry may not be the only current one but it is being fed by the ACA with our permission. No wonder the young people are so friggin frustrated with us Boomers - many of us continue to make excuses instead of standing up to those who continue to hand over our lives to these corporations.

Young people will be the one's who stand up to this corporate hold on our lives because they are the main generation who's getting royally screwed by our growing corporate state. But first they will need to get angry enough to do so. Anger is the first stage of grief when things start falling apart. But it can't just be a rebellious anger, it will need to have a spiritual side to it; a core value of courage and generosity will lead them to changing a system that too many of us Boomers and Silents say can't be changed because it is what it is. Courage will enable the younger generation to risk all for that change. We Boomers too often want change without risk. Not to mention that we keep holding on to old ideas and believe most everything that the corporate bought media tells us. One of their ploys is to preach that social movements are just a bunch of radicals that need to be silenced or totally ignore them.

Look at the name calling and put downs that we who show the under belly of the ACA are enduring. That s typically what happens to those who dare think out of the box and say that it doesn't have to be this way. We are demonized, while those who do the demonizing are rarely criticized or held accountable for their down right mean and vile behavior. But how dare we who expose the injustices speak up.

We did not get to this point in history by just our government feeding power to the corporate beast. We got here by citizens not looking beneath the policies and standing strong together to say enough is enough. We have let our younger generation down by being apologists and believing whatever we are fed from main stream media as solid and true. Our biggest mistake is not questioning the PTB.

We better get a fire in our belly soon for justice or there just may no longer be any future turnings.
Last edited by Deb C; 12-08-2013 at 05:14 PM.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5394 at 12-09-2013 12:56 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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12-09-2013, 12:56 AM #5394
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I love how playdude insults toads and all of a sudden people start coming out in support of them.
If you toadies were my cheering squad, I'd shoot myself.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5395 at 12-09-2013 01:17 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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12-09-2013, 01:17 AM #5395
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
The *Hunger Games* begin. The for profit insurance industry that's now been fed steroids by ACA, is creating another dilemma for the 99%. Primary care docs are leaving for a fee for service that gives you access to doctors for a fee. Eventually, only those who can afford the for service fees will get quick and quality service, while the rest of us will have extremely long waits to be seen by the remaining primary care physicians. Can we blame the doc who makes $200,000 a year, out of which, malpractice insurance, office rental and staff has to be paid? Sure, they have the option of joining a hospital practice that micro-manages them and holds them hostage with approval scores of perfection. Our health care system has put us all inbetween a rock and a very hard place!!

Enhanced Medical Care for an Annual Fee


Because there has been so much excess in the system, and because American doctors are among the highest paid in the developed world, their complaints about diminishing returns — a strain of grievance that has intensified around the Affordable Care Act — are hardly immediate triggers of our collective sympathy. Median compensation for practitioners of internal medicine was about $210,000 last year.

And yet Dr. Goldberg’s experience illustrates the difficulties primary-care physicians often face in a city where staffing and real estate costs vastly outpace those in the rest of the country. By the time Dr. Goldberg stopped taking insurance in 2009 he had become unable to deliver the level of patient service he aspired to and couldn’t afford to maintain his practice as it stood, he told me.
“I really had nothing left to lose,” he said.

The health care market in New York is sufficiently unusual that members of the affluent classes routinely question the merits of doctors who do take insurance. How could the doctor satisfied to receive a $20 co-pay also be the doctor skilled enough to know that your palm’s itch is really the early sign of something rare and disfiguring? This psychology, along with the cost-cutting strategies pursued by insurance companies over the years, have driven the field of concierge medicine — typically, boutique general practices that charge premiums for enhanced attention. Five years ago there were 28 concierge doctors in the New York metropolitan area, according to the group Concierge Medicine Today, which studies the field. Today there are 124.
In recent years, some of Dr. Goldberg’s patients have made unusual requests that he has obliged. In one instance, when a patient didn’t want to be seen having a colonoscopy, Dr. Goldberg closed his office for four hours to grant her more privacy. Another requested allergy shots at home and another his accompaniment to a stressful M.R.I. where Dr. Goldberg held the patient’s toe to supply comfort.

All of this led him and a new partner, Daniel Yadegar, a cardiologist and specialist in integrative and anti-aging medicine, educated at Harvard and Cornell, to embark on a whole new kind of practice, one in which patients — and there will be no more than 400 — will pay $25,000 a year for unfettered access to the doctors. Patients will be able to call and see and text the doctors whenever they want; they will be able to receive home visits, though those will cost extra (and so will lab work). They will be able to ask their doctors to travel to them should they suspect the onset of illness in June in Umbria. Various young Internet moguls have already expressed interest in becoming patients of the practice, which will start next month, Dr. Goldberg said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/08/ny...nnual-fee.html

After you read this, think about the salaries of the CEO's in the private insurance industry. Here's just a sample:



UnitedHealth CEO
Stephen J. Hemsley

2007 Compensation
$13.2 million

2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$3,241,042

Former Managing Partner and CFO of Arthur Andersen (BusinessWeek)

Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$744,232,068

2009 Options Exercise
$127,001,281

Value of Wayzata, Minnesota Home (Hennepin County Assessor)
$6,640,000

Articles:

Hemsley returns $190 million in stock options acquired as a result of practices found to be fraudulent by the SEC(American Medical News)

CIGNA CEO
Edward Hanway

Five-Year Compensation, as of April 30, 2008 (Forbes)
$120.51 million

Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$28,881,000

Value of New Jersey Beach Home (Cape May County Assessor)
$13,607,400

Articles:

The family of a 17-year-old girl who died hours after CIGNA reversed a decision and said it would pay for a liver transplant plans to sue the company, their attorney said Friday. (Oakland Tribune)

Hundreds of entertainment industry workers in California and New Jersey who buy health insurance as a group are being hit with a rate increase that will raise some family-plan premiums to more than $44,000 a year. (USA Today)

Humana CEO
Michael McCallister

2007 Compensation
$10.3 million

2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$1,017,308

Five-Year Compensation Total (Forbes)
$15.1 million

Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$60,865,194

2006 Options Exercise(SECForm4)
$22,294,710

Value of Park City, Utah Home (County Assessor)
$6,978,380

Articles:

Humana abandons senior citizens in Florida, returns after Republicans pass new Medicare law, upping HMO payments by ~ 25% (NY Times)


There's about a dozen big insurers in the country, but let's make it 20. You've noted the few with the biggest compensation between $10-20 million, but let's say they all pull down a full $20M - that would 20 x $20M or $400M in TOTAL. That would account for about 0.001% of the Nation's nearly $3 TRILLION in yearly costs.

Go ahead and throw in the stock options as separate and additional, but divide by the number of years that compensation applies to. It won't make a difference. Relative to the amount of spending in the health care sector, CEO compensation is negligible.

You are not only clueless as to what the real issues are regarding health care costs but obviously don't have a rudimentary grasp of basic arithmetic.

Envy is not a foundation for good policy that actually does something useful.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5396 at 12-09-2013 01:23 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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12-09-2013, 01:23 AM #5396
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
What you write has much wisdom. Indeed, over compensation is everywhere. However, huge compensation for the insurance industry may not be the only current one but it is being fed by the ACA with our permission. No wonder the young people are so friggin frustrated with us Boomers - many of us continue to make excuses instead of standing up to those who continue to hand over our lives to these corporations.

Young people will be the one's who stand up to this corporate hold on our lives because they are the main generation who's getting royally screwed by our growing corporate state. But first they will need to get angry enough to do so. Anger is the first stage of grief when things start falling apart. But it can't just be a rebellious anger, it will need to have a spiritual side to it; a core value of courage and generosity will lead them to changing a system that too many of us Boomers and Silents say can't be changed because it is what it is. Courage will enable the younger generation to risk all for that change. We Boomers too often want change without risk. Not to mention that we keep holding on to old ideas and believe most everything that the corporate bought media tells us. One of their ploys is to preach that social movements are just a bunch of radicals that need to be silenced or totally ignore them.

Look at the name calling and put downs that we who show the under belly of the ACA are enduring. That s typically what happens to those who dare think out of the box and say that it doesn't have to be this way. We are demonized, while those who do the demonizing are rarely criticized or held accountable for their down right mean and vile behavior. But how dare we who expose the injustices speak up.

We did not get to this point in history by just our government feeding power to the corporate beast. We got here by citizens not looking beneath the policies and standing strong together to say enough is enough. We have let our younger generation down by being apologists and believing whatever we are fed from main stream media as solid and true. Our biggest mistake is not questioning the PTB.

We better get a fire in our belly soon for justice or there just may no longer be any future turnings.
The "put downs" have nothing whatsoever with you doing anything "daring" on an Internet chat room.

It's not even about you being dumb as dirt.

It's about your constant propagation of half truths and outright lies and, most galling, a sanctimonious hypocrite as you go about it.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#5397 at 12-10-2013 05:53 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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12-10-2013, 05:53 PM #5397
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Better Health Care for More People at Less Cost
Tuesday, December 10, 2013

Sen. Bernie Sanders on Monday introduced legislation to provide health care for every American through a Medicare-for-all, single-payer system. Rep. Jim McDermott has filed a companion bill in the House.

Sanders supported the Affordable Care Act, but in an interview with The Daily Beast he called the health care law passed in 2010 “only a modest step forward toward dealing with the dysfunction of the American health-care system.” Even under the new law, Sanders added, insurance companies, drug companies and medical equipment suppliers will be able to rake off billions of dollars in profits rather than devoting those resources to providing health care.

Views of Health Care System

Do you know who doesn’t like American health care? Americans don’t. A recent survey for the Commonwealth Fund of people in 11 countries found Americans were the least satisfied with their own health care system. The study looked at costs, wait times, barriers to access, quality of care and other measures. In the survey, 75 percent of Americans said our health care system needs fundamental changes or should be completely rebuilt.

Health Care Is a Right

"The United States is the only major nation in the industrialized world that does not guarantee health care as a right to its people," Sanders said. "Meanwhile, we spend about twice as much per capita on health care with worse results than other countries that spend far less. It is time that we bring about a fundamental transformation of the American health care system. It is time for us to end private, for-profit participation in delivering basic coverage. It is time for the United States to provide a Medicare-for-all single-payer health coverage program," Sanders said.

While making the case for a single-payer system nationwide, Sanders applauded his home state of Vermont for its progress toward developing its own single-payer system which could become a model for the nation.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsro...-for-less-cost
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5398 at 12-11-2013 01:21 AM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
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12-11-2013, 01:21 AM #5398
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Quote Originally Posted by sbrombacher View Post
Toads are amazing.
Especially this toad:



Quote Originally Posted by teh wiki
The toad's primary defense system are glands that produce a poison that may be potent enough to kill a grown dog.[2] These parotoid glands also produce the 5-MeO-DMT [3] and bufotenin for which the toad is known; both of these chemicals belong to the family of hallucinogenic tryptamines. These substances, present in the skin and venom of the toad, produce psychoactive effects when smoked.
So, it's "trippy toadies" that are amazing.

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite
If you toadies were my cheering squad, I'd shoot myself.
Uh, if it were the above toadies wouldn't that be magic toads make for seeing magic ponies?

Quote Originally Posted by Deb C
I just love toads.
Yes, I can see why. You can have it pretty much all. You get an organism that eats bugs and small rodents while at the same time makes venom that makes you fly.
Last edited by Ragnarök_62; 12-11-2013 at 01:31 AM.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#5399 at 12-11-2013 06:32 AM by princeofcats67 [at joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,995]
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12-11-2013, 06:32 AM #5399
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Hooray for playdude!
<giggle!>

You know,...

<giggle!>

I don't think Mr. Clueless realizes that
I was implying that I'm his toad(y).
(You're a naughty rani, Rani; Very, very naughty. )


Prince

PS:

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Oh yeah? Fuck you, too.
Ha! I seriously love your sense of humor.
I Am A Child of God/Nature/The Universe
I Think Globally and Act Individually(and possibly, voluntarily join-together with Others)
I Pray for World Peace & I Choose Less-Just Say: "NO!, Thank You."







Post#5400 at 12-11-2013 06:36 AM by princeofcats67 [at joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,995]
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12-11-2013, 06:36 AM #5400
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
I just love toads.

At your service, Madame.
(Not that you require my assistance;
You hold your own just fine, IMO. )


Prince
I Am A Child of God/Nature/The Universe
I Think Globally and Act Individually(and possibly, voluntarily join-together with Others)
I Pray for World Peace & I Choose Less-Just Say: "NO!, Thank You."
-----------------------------------------