Originally Posted by James50

I will make two guesses:

1. The time of the Avignon based anti-popes (late 14th century)
2. The Great Schism ca 1054

This is assuming you are playing fair and are not talking about meso-America, Africa, or Asia.

James50

I am playing fair and I was talking about the 14th Century. The Great Schism in 1054 actually just ratified a cultural and geographic split of long standing. I don't think most of the West even noticed it; not sure about the Orthodox branch. Glad to be rid of those Western barbarians who had no Greek?

Okay - "3*100 points + 50 extra credit and an A+ on the final.

Originally Posted by MillieJim

One other possibility is, perhaps, is circa 100-500 AD when discussing proto-christianity and the various mini-schisms that resulted in some sense of orthodox Imperial christianity. Either that or the era starting with Theodosius I and ending with Justinian in secular politics, but that era is far less precisely described by TGB's description.

There also arises some interesting possibilities when one considers the splits within Eastern Christianity at the time of Justinian and leading up to his reign.

More likely, I'd agree with your #1 alternative, or would fast forward to the time of Luther and the Reformation, especially if you look at it through the lens of the Holy Roman Empire of the day.

14th Century. Interesting foreshadowing of the Reformation, though.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

I am playing fair and I was talking about the 14th Century. The Great Schism in 1054 actually just ratified a cultural and geographic split of long standing. I don't think most of the West even noticed it; not sure about the Orthodox branch. Glad to be rid of those Western barbarians who had no Greek?

Okay - "3*100 points + 50 extra credit and an A+ on the final.

Cool although I think I may have had an unfair advantage. Last fall, I went on a 10 day hike through Provence. I spent two days in Avignon and got a full history lesson. Prior to going, I read a novel entitled "The Dream of Scipio" by Iain Pears. It is an unusual book that carries three parallel stories from the end of the Roman empire, the time of the Avignon popes, and during the Vichy period of WW2 all based in Provence.

I actually thought that the period from the book that most paralleled my sense of today was the period near the fall of the Roman empire ca 400. More about the Dream of Scipio here: http://bit.ly/azsWPq

(Note there is another book entitled Dream of Scipio written by Cicero as part of the "De re Publica". That story is set at the time of the Punic Wars - 146 BC).

James50

OK, this is way off topic, but if you want to hear something that will make you smile, watch this. A guy named Davey has a dance blog. He goes to various places all over the world, sets up a small video camera, and dances his own dance while listening to an IPod. In this one, he is "on the bridge at Avignon". This is the actual bridge in Avignon of the famous nursery tune. The tower in the left background is the old Papal palace. The tune is set to a big band arrangement. Its delightful in its own quirky way. http://bit.ly/arJOLh

I knew it was the 14th Century the moment I read it, but James beat me to it.

Originally Posted by Silifi

In another thread, a discussion came up about how this crisis would turn out. When we look at other crises, in American history, we see situtations that look only barely plausible given what things look like today.

Some people have proposed a double saeculum. Intense Awakening, Divisive Crisis, Mild Awakening, United Crisis.

This makes sense. However, what I see is a much larger mechanism at work. A Quadruple Saeculum, or The MegaSaeculum.

My initial proposal was this:

1. Divisive Awakening (English Civil War) => Mild Crisis (Glorious Revolution)
2. Intellectual Awakening (Enlightenment) => Revolutionary Crisis (American Revolution)
3. Spiritual Awakening (Transcendentalism) => Divisive Crisis (American Civil War, War of the Roses)
4. Mild Awakening (Progressive Movement) => Triumphant Crisis (World War II, Spanish Armada)

Then, The Grey Badger proposed an addition to this:


1. Divisive Awakening => Mild Crisis (Unraveling)
2. Intellectual Awakening => Revolutionary Crisis (Crisis)
3. Spiritual Awakening => Divisive Crisis (High)
4. Mild Awakening => Triumphant Crisis (Awakening)

Now, I did notice one minor problem, which is that Britain didn't have a civil war in the middle of the 19th Century. So, I'll make one more change:

1. Spiritual Awakening => Bitter Crisis (High)
2. Mild Awakening => Triumphant Crisis (Awakening)
3. Divisive Awakening => Mild Crisis (Unraveling)
4. Intellectual Awakening => Revolutionary Crisis (Crisis)

Of course, every Awakening is, to an extent, Spiritual, Intellectual, and Divisive. However, only sometimes are one of those traits particularly emphasized, and sometimes none of them are.

All of these types will have to be looked over and researched. However, what I've been particularly interested in is the third type. The type I think we're in today.

This MegaUnraveling seems to be inspired because of the results of the past Crisis: A triumphant Hero generation that believes it can do anything. They're the most likely to show hubris of any other Civic archetypes, and they arguably have the most impact on culture.

There are two cases of these generations: Elizabethian Generation, and the GI Generation.

The Elizabethian Generation was essentially an Anglican Generation. They strongly supported the new Church, they strongly supported the Monarchy. They undoubtedly had an influence not only on political issues, but also on that primary cultural issue of the day: religion.

The GI Generation, too, had come to exert a powerful influence on culture. The perpetuation of family values in the newly created suburbs was a symbol not just of material wealth, but of a culture centered around the nuclear family.

The Puritans and the Boomers hated this, to say the least, so they rebelled with huge intensity against their elders. This type of intense generational conflict was not found in other cycles: normally, the Civics just sort of roll over once they see what's happening, and focus more on what they know rather than actively pushing back.

But in these two cycles, the Heros did push back. The Cavaliers (not to be confused with the generation) defended King Charles at all costs, to the point of violence. The GIs, fearing the wrath of the Baby Boomers, suddenly switched parties, as they had been mostly democrat, and elected Nixon to fight the Boomers.

We had an all-out generational war in both cases. In neither case was an interim generation capable of compromising these differences. In other cycles, we had a strongman who stepped in to end the conflict, but not neccessarily tilting towards either one. Andrew Jackson. Teddy Roosevelt. These were all Artists, in the past.

But in these Divisive Awakenings, these Artists are marginalized, and when they do become powerful, they are killed. There can be no compromise generation.

Instead, one side has to win. In the English Civil War, the Puritan Oliver Cromwell stepped in as the victor, finally defeating the Elizabethians and the Elizabethian ideal.

In the most recent Awakening, boomers almost won, against Nixon, but they ultimately lost as GI Ronald Reagan stepped in to solidify GI ideals.

But at the end of it all, the next generations grew tired of the Prophets and their divisive nature. With the Glorious Revolution, there was no attempt to place another Puritan in power. And with this years 4T, we don't want another Boomer.

So if our last awakening was devisive, do you all think this 4T will be mild and we will continue to have a series of long 3T like battles like in the Glorious and not a full out global war like the last time. ?

And what's an example of a MEGA Crisis? Another Dark Age???

MillenialX, I believe that by MegaCrisis, he simply means that it is the last saeclum in the MegaSaeclum, ie that the previous megacrisis was the revolutionary saeclum, where the English Megasaeclum gave way to a new American MegaSaeclum. So in theory, this coming megacrisis will be the last saeclum of the American Megasaeclum and a new megasaeclum will be established, let me be the first to call it "The World Government Megasaeclum" (Next Spiritual Awakening-Following Revolutionary Crisis (After the coming one)

Pat and I seem to have a disagreement over where we are in the Mega-saeculum. Pat has brought up cultural examples showing the period from the Missionary Awakening to the Boom Awakening being "Mega-Awakening", But when I look at the general social attitudes the Great Power saeculum seems Mega-High to me while the Millennial Saeculum is a Mega-Awakening. Perhaps some cultural trends precede the rest of society by half a saeculum?

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Odin

Pat and I seem to have a disagreement over where we are in the Mega-saeculum. Pat has brought up cultural examples showing the period from the Missionary Awakening to the Boom Awakening being "Mega-Awakening", But when I look at the general social attitudes the Great Power saeculum seems Mega-High to me while the Millennial Saeculum is a Mega-Awakening. Perhaps some cultural trends precede the rest of society by half a saeculum?

Thoughts?

Well, the 19th Century looks mighty like a mega-High to me! And the revolution-filled 18th, like a mega-Crisis. Please note that before the mega-Crisis, nobody could imagine a government without kings except as a daydream. Afterwards, even the monarchies came very close to being republics.

Originally Posted by SeanPeyton90

MillenialX, I believe that by MegaCrisis, he simply means that it is the last saeclum in the MegaSaeclum, ie that the previous megacrisis was the revolutionary saeclum, where the English Megasaeclum gave way to a new American MegaSaeclum. So in theory, this coming megacrisis will be the last saeclum of the American Megasaeclum and a new megasaeclum will be established, let me be the first to call it "The World Government Megasaeclum" (Next Spiritual Awakening-Following Revolutionary Crisis (After the coming one)

Not "saeclum." "saeculum." My spellchecker is going as crazy as my 4th grade teacher confronted with a dyslexic.

Just a heads-up,

Pat

Right now it is one of those times when it would be wiser to face the facts and realize that our thinking is likely to be confused and befuddled. This seems to be where we are at right now. The seemingly endless malaise is no doubt a huge factor in making any kind of real progress. We just may be forced to face the reality that we can't maintain the lifestyle all or at least most of US society expected during the postwar years when an entire economy revolved around the idea that one would have a secure job for the better part of a lifetime and get continuous income increases. The whole notion of a "buy now, pay later" consumption system was very obviously predicated on this model, that by the time the bill came due the family's income would be higher. The way it is today it may no longer make sense to contract for a 30-year mortgage or even a 5-year car loan when you have no clue as to whether your income will continue to be there for you. The ability of the current society to focus on what needs to be done for any length of time now seems difficult to achieve. As important as the debt ceiling debate may be to financiers and perhaps even common folk, the frenzy over it turned into the same sort of media circus as did the Casey Anthony trial. At the same time we are struggling with the pathologies of a tight job market, where not only are certain groups such as seniors and the socially inept have trouble landing jobs, but that much of today's workplace is intent on being able to record everything and create production quotas which are often next to impossible to meet, thus creating what has sometimes been referred to as electronic sweatshops. An increase in household finances is much harder to come by these days, as one's workplace can no longer be depended on to honor a promise of promotion or other employment perk. If, as the creator of this thread indicated, we have a mild crisis, that could mean just more of the same old, same old ahead of us. But yet a 4T is a time when said social problems are no longer deferred. That is why I tend to believe we still may not be fully there as yet, as we have not totally let go of 3T pathologies.l

I've been wondering if the point of this Saeculum hasn't been the integration of Eastern & Western cultures into one larger "World Culture"?

It would begin with the Japonisme of the Great Power Saeculum which led to Impressionism, Art Nouveau, Cubism & other artistic movements such as Epic Theatre & Modernist Literature (Ezra Pound, Gertrude Stein, ee cummings). Also think Madama Butterfly & The Mikado.

And it was developed further by the New Age Movement of the Millennial Saeculum (Chakras, Meditation, Multi-culturalism, and Post-Modernism). Think of the music of composer Tan Dun, a Chinese composer who composed the music for the Beijing Olympics as well as this little ditty which represents currently where the merger is currently IMO: The Internet Symphony.

And it will be pushed even further in the next Saeculum--with the trend being noticed & questioned in both cultural hemispheres as "purists" pop up to try and return their respective cultures to before the mixing took place, next the Eastern and Western cultures will clash in the MegaCrisis as purists & those wishing unification threaten to tear (and actually do so) apart their respective cultures, until finally the two cultures are united in the MegaHigh under one cultural domion consisting of elements of both, and claiming both as part of its heritage.

It's just a pattern I think I see occurring. If it's true we're about 160 - 180 years away from the beginnings of a unified world culture. IMO MegaSaeculums seem to have a large impact on the history of Religions & Artistic movements than on the general population. But then again, those are some of the things that remain constant from Saeculum to Saeculum--if governments are stable & last that long, they have influence on them as well.

~Chas'88

PS: Pat, I think you yourself would be especially interested. Because this would mean that modern "Classical Art" is pointed in the East/West merger, while "Popular Art" is the conservative bastian of Western Civilization.

Originally Posted by Chas'88

I've been wondering if the point of this Saeculum hasn't been the integration of Eastern & Western cultures into one larger "World Culture"?

It would begin with the Japonisme of the Great Power Saeculum which led to Impressionism, Art Nouveau, Cubism & other artistic movements such as Epic Theatre & Modernist Literature (Ezra Pound, Gertrude Stein, ee cummings). Also think Madama Butterfly & The Mikado.

And it was developed further by the New Age Movement of the Millennial Saeculum (Chakras, Meditation, Multi-culturalism, and Post-Modernism). Think of the music of composer Tan Dun, a Chinese composer who composed the music for the Beijing Olympics as well as this little ditty which represents currently where the merger is currently IMO: The Internet Symphony.

And it will be pushed even further in the next Saeculum--with the trend being noticed & questioned in both cultural hemispheres as "purists" pop up to try and return their respective cultures to before the mixing took place, next the Eastern and Western cultures will clash in the MegaCrisis as purists & those wishing unification threaten to tear (and actually do so) apart their respective cultures, until finally the two cultures are united in the MegaHigh under one cultural domion consisting of elements of both, and claiming both as part of its heritage.

It's just a pattern I think I see occurring. If it's true we're about 160 - 180 years away from the beginnings of a unified world culture. IMO MegaSaeculums seem to have a large impact on the history of Religions & Artistic movements than on the general population. But then again, those are some of the things that remain constant from Saeculum to Saeculum--if governments are stable & last that long, they have influence on them as well.

~Chas'88

PS: Pat, I think you yourself would be especially interested. Because this would mean that modern "Classical Art" is pointed in the East/West merger, while "Popular Art" is the conservative bastian of Western Civilization.

IMO the imported Eastern spirituality is in the process of becoming fully Westernized and being made to fit the Western view of the world. Buddhism is a good example Non-western teachers are becoming less and less important and the cultural baggage of the various traditional Buddhist sects are being shed as a truly Western form of Buddhism takes shape.

Originally Posted by 1990

I only wish there was more/better documentation about the Glorious Revolution 4T, because it seems to be largely ignored by history.

Try this:

http://www.amazon.com/Our-First-Revo.../dp/1400097924

Question: what is the time in mega saeculum time for the US? Obviously, its the 4T. But in what higher turning too? Maybe what micro saeculum time too? I am thing in terms of a cycle clock like the Romans had.

Originally Posted by disgruntledxer

Question: what is the time in mega saeculum time for the US? Obviously, its the 4T. But in what higher turning too? Maybe what micro saeculum time too? I am thing in terms of a cycle clock like the Romans had.

From those who've studied MegaSaeculums intently they usually list the Millennial Saeculum as an Awakening Saeculum of the MegaSaeculum.

MegaSaeculum Turning: Awakening
Millennial Saeculum Turning: Crisis
Micro-Turning: Crisis-Awakening

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

From those who've studied MegaSaeculums intently they usually list the Millennial Saeculum as an Awakening Saeculum of the MegaSaeculum.

MegaSaeculum Turning: Awakening
Millennial Saeculum Turning: Crisis
Micro-Turning: Crisis-Awakening

~Chas'88

Except for me. I still say the Great Power Saeculum was a mega-Awakening - LOOK at all the cultural changes! And religious ones, too!. Which would make this a mega-Unraveling.

Now, working backwards, the Victorian Age -- I'm using this as more universal that a US-specific name marked by a possible anomaly - has all the earmarks of a mega-Recovery. From what? From the mega-Crisis of the late 18th Century!

Which would make the 17th a mega-Unraveling. Tick this off on your fingers, folks -- religious polarization, an explosion of scientific research and knowledge, the arts and music and architecture that flowered in the Renaissance bearing fruit in the Baroque ... and, oh, yes, a very nasty prolonged 3mT war that put France and Germany on the same timeline, but settled very little.

Moving backwards, do you dispute that the Renaissance was a mega-Awakening? Or the 15th C, a mega-Crisis Era. Or the 14th -- if you doubt it was a prolonged mega-Unraveling, ask Barbara Tuchman. Though the Black Death was certainly mega Crisis material --- *look at how they handled it.* Hurricane Katrina, anyone?

And we are not a mega-Awakening because we are not really pioneering brand new forms of art, literature, music, architecture, or religion. We're elaborating and building on those of the last Saeculum. What we *are* doing is having a massive explosion of information technology and biotech, all of which has to meet a very rigorous test of "Is it profitable?"

WeB3T*2.

Originally Posted by Odin

IMO the imported Eastern spirituality is in the process of becoming fully Westernized and being made to fit the Western view of the world. Buddhism is a good example Non-western teachers are becoming less and less important and the cultural baggage of the various traditional Buddhist sects are being shed as a truly Western form of Buddhism takes shape.

It is concievable that the future could see influences from several different civilizations.

I believe that the Renaissance/Reformation era has been described as a Macro/Mega-Awakening. The Victorian Age seems to roughly correspond to what Eric Meece (Eric the Green) labeled a "copper age."

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Except for me. I still say the Great Power Saeculum was a mega-Awakening - LOOK at all the cultural changes! And religious ones, too!. Which would make this a mega-Unraveling.

In which I would agree with you--I've been deferring to what others say on the MegaSaeculum for the most part because I'm more interested in smaller movements--hence Micro-Turnings--based on different reasons. Look at how IDEALISTIC the Great Power generations were. Heck, look at Disney World and other such idealistic endeavors. Then it also fits the whole Authoritarian-Dream/Authoritarian Nightmare Libertarian Dream/Libertarian Nightmare vibe that alternates as how Governments govern--that I get that alternates between saeculums:

New World Saeculum: Falling Authoritarian Dream/Rising Authoritarian Nightmare (Idealistic Order gives way to Abusive Order)
Revolutionary Saeculum: Falling Authoritarian Nightmare/Rising Libertarian Dream (Abusive Order gives way to Idealistic Chaos)
Civil War Saeculum: Falling Libertarian Dream/Rising Libertarian Nightmare (Idealistic Chaos gives way to Abusive Chaos)
Great Power Saeculum: Falling Libertarian Nightmare/Rising Authoritarian Dream (Abusive Chaos gives way to Idealistic Order)
Millennial Saeculum: Falling Authoritarian Dream/Rising Authoritarian Nightmare (Idealistic Order gives way to Abusive Order)
Next Saeculum: Falling Authoritarian Nightmare/Rising Libertarian Dream (Abusive Order gives way to Idealistic Chaos)

9/11 has already paved the road to this transition. Order has already become abusive.

~Chas

Originally Posted by Chas'88

In which I would agree with you--I've been deferring to what others say on the MegaSaeculum for the most part because I'm more interested in smaller movements--hence Micro-Turnings--based on different reasons. Look at how IDEALISTIC the Great Power generations were. Heck, look at Disney World and other such idealistic endeavors. Then it also fits the whole Authoritarian-Dream/Authoritarian Nightmare Libertarian Dream/Libertarian Nightmare vibe that alternates as how Governments govern--that I get that alternates between saeculums:

New World Saeculum: Falling Authoritarian Dream/Rising Authoritarian Nightmare (Idealistic Order gives way to Abusive Order)
Revolutionary Saeculum: Falling Authoritarian Nightmare/Rising Libertarian Dream (Abusive Order gives way to Idealistic Chaos)
Civil War Saeculum: Falling Libertarian Dream/Rising Libertarian Nightmare (Idealistic Chaos gives way to Abusive Chaos)
Great Power Saeculum: Falling Libertarian Nightmare/Rising Authoritarian Dream (Abusive Chaos gives way to Idealistic Order)
Millennial Saeculum: Falling Authoritarian Dream/Rising Authoritarian Nightmare (Idealistic Order gives way to Abusive Order)
Next Saeculum: Falling Authoritarian Nightmare/Rising Libertarian Dream (Abusive Order gives way to Idealistic Chaos)

9/11 has already paved the road to this transition. Order has already become abusive.

~Chas

Thanks. I intend to print off your post and tack it to the inside of my book along with my mega-cyclical analysis. And I do agree about the macro-mega part.

Someone asked if I had ever heard of a crisis or a mega-crisis in which progress went backwards. I answered that you do not run that one by someone with a specialty (as much as UNM offers) in Medieval Studies, especially if the course included a history of Christianity from Year One to 1517.

Anyway, thanks.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Thanks. I intend to print off your post and tack it to the inside of my book along with my mega-cyclical analysis. And I do agree about the macro-mega part.

Someone asked if I had ever heard of a crisis or a mega-crisis in which progress went backwards. I answered that you do not run that one by someone with a specialty (as much as UNM offers) in Medieval Studies, especially if the course included a history of Christianity from Year One to 1517.

Anyway, thanks.

The fall of the Roman empire and classical civilization generally is obviously a scary development. My book Politics and War was written before S & H, although it is largely (not completely) about crises, and I didn't see very many good outcomes in the European crises of 1559-1659.

Chas, I have to admit we are poles apart in our approach. I love simplicity. You love complexity. It tires me out. But in any case, my 45 years as a historian tell me that we are not heading for an authoritarian order. We are heading in the direction of chaos, and the question now is how far in that direction we are going to go.

Moving from the APT of JDW:

MEGA SAECULUM - according to Pat

Mega-Recovery: roughly, the reign of Henry VII. This is a long transition period while the modern absolute state is being formed.

Mega-Awakening: the Renaissance (during the time it came to the North: we all know how much earlier it hit Italy, so hush, you art historians, hush) and the Reformation - think Mega-Blue and Mega-Red Awakenings here.

Mega-Unraveling: the period we call the Seventeenth Century - The Stuarts on the throne in England, the 30-years war on the Continent, that crazy geek Isaac Newton and his buddies of the Royal Society (think Silicon Valley today), sharp polarization between Puritans of various stripes and the established faiths, especially the Roman Catholic faith - the counter-Reformation-

Mega-Crisis: the Eighteenth Century (note: all Centuries are culturally, by popular definition, and not by the calendar!) "So, you say you want a revolution....!"

Mega-Recovery: the Nineteenth Century. Industrialism, Progress, so fat & happy & stable not even S&H could find a real mid-century Crisis on the continent or in England except the Franco-Prussian War and Paris Commune. Which as Fourth Turnings go was nasty enough, but quite brief. Victorian mores, parallel to "Look at me, I'm Sandra Dee, lousy with virginity...."

AND THE END! As we enter the new Mega-Saeculum --

Mega-Awakening: "The 20th Century". You can probably date it to the Missionary Awakening culturally - art, new religions and the revival of occultism, and all that - went mass-market with the old order died in the trenches of the Western Front. I keep saying, neither a Victorian nor an Elizabethan would have known a person of 1960 for their heirs without being horribly appalled. But they would have known each other well.

Mega-Unraveling: Starts with the Boom Awakening and we are still in it. See Seventeenth Century for parallels that strike me as being as obvious as the flood of colored lights and sales around the holidays. And I still consider the English Civil War to have been England's 4T. S&H were trying to keep England and the Colonies on the same timeline, and no, they were NOT.

Mega-Crisis: Let's let the dust of this 4T settle and look at the real, lasting problems we're stuck with and can't get around. My bet is on resource depletion and climate change. And what human beings have historically done when faced with resource depletion is that nations, states, and other people of power go to war to steal those of their neighbors in order to maintain the American/Roman/Mayan Way of Life. I expect the Crisis of 2100 - a Mega-Crisis-Era Crisis - to be a doozy. And the Recovery to be hard. And none of us will recognize the post-Crisis civilization. We would probably be totally appalled at it.

This would make:

MEGA RECOVERY

Arthurian Generation - Artistic Civics
Humanist Generation - Uber Artists

NEW MEGA SAECULUM

MEGA AWAKENING

Reformation Generation - Uber Idealists
Reprisal Generation - Idealistic Nomads
Elizabethan Generation - Idealistic Civics
Parliamentary Generation - Idealistic Artists

MEGA UNRAVELING

Puritan Generation - Nomadic Idealists
Cavalier Generation - Uber Nomads
Glorious Generation - Nomadic Civics
Enlightenment Generation - Nomadic Artists

MEGA CRISIS

Awakening Generation - Civic Idealists
Liberty Generation - Civic Nomads
Republican Generation - Uber Civics
Compromise Generation - Civic Artists

MEGA RECOVERY

Transcendental Generation - Artistic Idealists
Gilded Generation - Artistic Nomads
Progressive Generation - Uber Artists

NEW MEGA SAECULUM

MEGA AWAKENING

Missionary Generation - Uber Idealists
Lost Generation - Idealistic Nomads
GI Generation - Idealistic Civics
Silent Generation - Idealistic Artists

MEGA UNRAVELING

Boom Generation - Nomadic Idealists
Generation X - Uber Nomads
Millennial Generation - Nomadic Civics
New Silent Generation - Nomadic Artists

MEGA CRISIS

New Prophet Generation - Civic Idealists
New Nomad Generation - Civic Nomads
New Hero Generation - Uber Civics
New Artist Generation - Civic Artists

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Moving from the APT of JDW:

MEGA SAECULUM - according to Pat



This would make:

MEGA RECOVERY

Arthurian Generation - Artistic Civics
Humanist Generation - Uber Artists

NEW MEGA SAECULUM

MEGA AWAKENING

Reformation Generation - Uber Idealists
Reprisal Generation - Idealistic Nomads
Elizabethan Generation - Idealistic Civics
Parliamentary Generation - Idealistic Artists

MEGA UNRAVELING

Puritan Generation - Nomadic Idealists
Cavalier Generation - Uber Nomads
Glorious Generation - Nomadic Civics
Enlightenment Generation - Nomadic Artists

MEGA CRISIS

Awakening Generation - Civic Idealists
Liberty Generation - Civic Nomads
Republican Generation - Uber Civics
Compromise Generation - Civic Artists

MEGA RECOVERY

Transcendental Generation - Artistic Idealists
Gilded Generation - Artistic Nomads
Progressive Generation - Uber Artists

NEW MEGA SAECULUM

MEGA AWAKENING

Missionary Generation - Uber Idealists
Lost Generation - Idealistic Nomads
GI Generation - Idealistic Civics
Silent Generation - Idealistic Artists

MEGA UNRAVELING

Boom Generation - Nomadic Idealists
Generation X - Uber Nomads
Millennial Generation - Nomadic Civics
New Silent Generation - Nomadic Artists

MEGA CRISIS

New Prophet Generation - Civic Idealists
New Nomad Generation - Civic Nomads
New Hero Generation - Uber Civics
New Artist Generation - Civic Artists

~Chas'88

This makes so much sense to me.

Looking at your chart above, it seems like its the Uber generation that's progressive enough to advance society into the next stage. History will tell if the progress is good or bad this time around but this does explain a lot for me.

My eye is suddenly now focused on the Cavalier generation.
http://www.fourthturning.com/html/ca...eneration.html
Both grew up during a lot of religious extremism and family collapse. The Cavaliers were uneducated, but the Xers are educated and we are starting to wonder if society gives a damn for that institution anymore. This also goes with my thoughts on how religion works: http://www.fourthturning.com/forum/s...m-Theory-(APT)

This is brillant and fits our comparisons with the Puritans= Boomers, Glorious= Millennials and I have stated before that we will have another Enlightenment generation and Great Awakening. The Civil War anomaly (which may or may not be an anomaly) has hampered our study in understanding the millennial atonement generation and Xer advancement. We need to go further back: http://www.fourthturning.com/forum/s...olution-Crisis

Oh, yes, Chas - that makes such intuitive good sense to me, I was crying out "Yes! Yes!" I note the Restoration Era makes the Lost Generation look mild by comparison. And we're still using the Puritans as the gold standard for their type.

Originally Posted by millennialX

This is brillant and fits our comparisons with the Puritans= Boomers, Glorious= Millennials and I have stated before that we will have another Enlightenment generation and Great Awakening. The Civil War anomaly (which may or may not be an anomaly) has hampered our study in understanding the millennial atonement generation and Xer advancement. We need to go further back: http://www.fourthturning.com/forum/s...olution-Crisis

Brilliant article, and from Mr. Reed no less! Lengthy, but well worth the read. As I read it I was reminded a lot of the OWS movement by these Glorious Pennsylvanians.

~Chas'88