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Thread: The MegaSaeculum - Page 4







Post#76 at 11-25-2011 02:36 PM by disgruntledxer [at Seattle, WA joined Sep 2010 #posts 674]
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I had posed this question a different thread without checking if this thread existed. What brought this to mind was if WWII was a mega crisis. The world had not seen anything like it with the entire world picking either one of two sides to the global conflict or a few nations like Spain in a civil war all durring the same time span. It made me thing that this saeculum would be a mega 1T. But of course, that is only one piece of evidence. It takes 3 points to make a trend and it would be hard to build a trend when all you have seen is this saeculum. I do not know what to make of this 2T since it seems very unique with more mystic aspects that out right religion and not to mention the whole "peace" thing that is even echoed with the new civics.
Initially, the questions I ask when reviewing any saeculur event: What did the decision makers know about the cyclical time, when did they know it, and how did they act on that knowledge? Then I can ask the question, "what was their purpose?" I take extra special notice when reviewing events before Generations was released by Strauss-Howe.







Post#77 at 11-25-2011 02:39 PM by disgruntledxer [at Seattle, WA joined Sep 2010 #posts 674]
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I just noticed, I offer just about only questions and no answers on this forum. I do not know if that is a good thing, a bad thing, or just a different flavor?
Initially, the questions I ask when reviewing any saeculur event: What did the decision makers know about the cyclical time, when did they know it, and how did they act on that knowledge? Then I can ask the question, "what was their purpose?" I take extra special notice when reviewing events before Generations was released by Strauss-Howe.







Post#78 at 11-26-2011 08:25 AM by Alioth68 [at Minnesota joined Apr 2010 #posts 693]
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Quote Originally Posted by millennialX View Post
This makes so much sense to me.

Looking at your chart above, it seems like its the Uber generation that's progressive enough to advance society into the next stage. History will tell if the progress is good or bad this time around but this does explain a lot for me.
I noticed that two "ubers" in a row occur at the megasaeculum boundaries too--"uber-artist" followed by "uber-idealist"--and these mark periods of particularly great change (end of Medieval Age, and beginning of Industrial Age). Interesting.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword." --Kosh Naranek
"...Your side, my side, and the truth." --John Sheridan

"No more half-measures." --Mike Ehrmantraut

"rationalizing...is never clear thinking." --SM Kovalinsky







Post#79 at 11-26-2011 11:06 AM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by Alioth68 View Post
I noticed that two "ubers" in a row occur at the megasaeculum boundaries too--"uber-artist" followed by "uber-idealist"--and these mark periods of particularly great change (end of Medieval Age, and beginning of Industrial Age). Interesting.
Wow! Good catch! Now - when is the next time after ~1500 that we get two ubers in a row? Because that would have to mark the beginning of the post-Industrial Age.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#80 at 11-26-2011 12:43 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Grey Badger View Post
Wow! Good catch! Now - when is the next time after ~1500 that we get two ubers in a row? Because that would have to mark the beginning of the post-Industrial Age.
The Next Mega-Awakening:

Next Saeculum - Post-Millennial (for lack of a better name)

Mega-Crisis

Civic- Idealist
Civic-Nomad
Uber Civic
Civic-Artist

Second Saeculum

Mega-Recovery

Artist-Idealist
Artist-Nomad
Artist-Civic
Uber-Artist

Third Saeculum

Mega-Awakening

Uber Idealist
Idealist-Nomad
Idealist-Civic
Idealist-Artist

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#81 at 11-26-2011 01:08 PM by Alioth68 [at Minnesota joined Apr 2010 #posts 693]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Grey Badger View Post
Wow! Good catch! Now - when is the next time after ~1500 that we get two ubers in a row? Because that would have to mark the beginning of the post-Industrial Age.
The one after 1500 was the post-US Civil War (progressives=uber artists, missionaries=uber idealists)--not exactly the beginning-beginning industrial age, but the age where it kicked into high gear, many significant inventions, etc.


The coming one would be what, 2 1T/2Ts from the next 1T/2T?
"Understanding is a three-edged sword." --Kosh Naranek
"...Your side, my side, and the truth." --John Sheridan

"No more half-measures." --Mike Ehrmantraut

"rationalizing...is never clear thinking." --SM Kovalinsky







Post#82 at 11-26-2011 03:40 PM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by Alioth68 View Post
The one after 1500 was the post-US Civil War (progressives=uber artists, missionaries=uber idealists)--not exactly the beginning-beginning industrial age, but the age where it kicked into high gear, many significant inventions, etc.


The coming one would be what, 2 1T/2Ts from the next 1T/2T?
Was, eh? And around 1900? Which totally matches a 400-year megasaeculum; the next such configuration would be due around 2300, then. Which Chas lists as a mega-Awakening. And the artists actually start the movements the idealists carry to fruition, if this past Awakening is any indication. That makes sense. And megaCrises would occur when, instead of a gentle slide from one uber-archetype into the other, we have two that clash violently - but not with each other. Nomadic Artists and Civic Idealists.

Wait a minute. Ayn Rand was a classic Civic Idealist or else Idealist Civic. Does that mean the Russian Revolution was a *mega*Crisis for Russia? If so, then it must have been one for the Ottoman Empire as well, which also makes sense (Where is it now? Where are the Tsars? And what was happening in Greece and the Balkans? The 'stans?)

Wow.
Last edited by The Grey Badger; 11-26-2011 at 03:49 PM.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#83 at 11-28-2011 03:02 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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So the next 2T will be a Mega-Crisis Awakening? And it will likely have a Civic flavor?







Post#84 at 11-28-2011 03:29 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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Quote Originally Posted by TimWalker View Post
So the next 2T will be a Mega-Crisis Awakening? And it will likely have a Civic flavor?


Tim, according to this chart which I agree with, it will be a mega Crisis.

Last awakening within a Mega crisis was the first Great Awakening. Sounds good to me.

Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Moving from the APT of JDW:

MEGA SAECULUM - according to Pat



This would make:

MEGA RECOVERY

Arthurian Generation - Artistic Civics
Humanist Generation - Uber Artists

NEW MEGA SAECULUM


MEGA AWAKENING

Reformation Generation - Uber Idealists
Reprisal Generation - Idealistic Nomads
Elizabethan Generation - Idealistic Civics
Parliamentary Generation - Idealistic Artists

MEGA UNRAVELING

Puritan Generation - Nomadic Idealists
Cavalier Generation - Uber Nomads
Glorious Generation - Nomadic Civics
Enlightenment Generation - Nomadic Artists

MEGA CRISIS

Awakening Generation - Civic Idealists
Liberty Generation - Civic Nomads
Republican Generation - Uber Civics
Compromise Generation - Civic Artists

MEGA RECOVERY

Transcendental Generation - Artistic Idealists
Gilded Generation - Artistic Nomads
Progressive Generation - Uber Artists

NEW MEGA SAECULUM


MEGA AWAKENING

Missionary Generation - Uber Idealists
Lost Generation - Idealistic Nomads
GI Generation - Idealistic Civics
Silent Generation - Idealistic Artists

MEGA UNRAVELING

Boom Generation - Nomadic Idealists
Generation X - Uber Nomads
Millennial Generation - Nomadic Civics
New Silent Generation - Nomadic Artists

MEGA CRISIS

New Prophet Generation - Civic Idealists
New Nomad Generation - Civic Nomads
New Hero Generation - Uber Civics
New Artist Generation - Civic Artists

~Chas'88
Last edited by millennialX; 11-28-2011 at 03:31 PM.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer







Post#85 at 11-28-2011 04:15 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Which turning does a Mega-Crisis with?
Last edited by TimWalker; 11-28-2011 at 07:42 PM.







Post#86 at 11-29-2011 12:20 AM by disgruntledxer [at Seattle, WA joined Sep 2010 #posts 674]
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Here issomething: in the Fourth Turning, S-H talked about Roman Empire and theprophecy that it would last 12 saeculums and it did just that (insight?). An ultra-mega saeculum that is. Ifone of the (arguably only) 2 greatest societies ever in history could not last past this ultra-mega saeculum, would that make any point in analyses of how long asociety can last? It seems that a number of arguments are based on the creationof a "totally" new society. The other one I am taking into account is Egypt, but I do not know much about the Far East when it goes past WWII.
Initially, the questions I ask when reviewing any saeculur event: What did the decision makers know about the cyclical time, when did they know it, and how did they act on that knowledge? Then I can ask the question, "what was their purpose?" I take extra special notice when reviewing events before Generations was released by Strauss-Howe.







Post#87 at 11-29-2011 08:35 AM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by TimWalker View Post
Which turning does a Mega-Crisis with?
End with? I'm going to say the Crisis, but we have an ordinary recovery period. The Long Wave notes the 18th Century inflation wave ending sometime in the 1810s, which was the recovery here in the states.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#88 at 11-29-2011 08:37 AM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by disgruntledxer View Post
Here issomething: in the Fourth Turning, S-H talked about Roman Empire and theprophecy that it would last 12 saeculums and it did just that (insight?). An ultra-mega saeculum that is. Ifone of the (arguably only) 2 greatest societies ever in history could not last past this ultra-mega saeculum, would that make any point in analyses of how long asociety can last? It seems that a number of arguments are based on the creationof a "totally" new society. The other one I am taking into account is Egypt, but I do not know much about the Far East when it goes past WWII.
Chinese history has had many more ups and downs, so you might want to study that. My only detailed knowledge of it is the background to Confucius' emphasis on social stability, which was a mega-Crisis for China.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#89 at 11-30-2011 04:20 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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As I recall, in one edition of A Study of History, by Arnold Toynbee, Ancient Egypt was said to have lasted about 3,000 years. However, that included a long stretch as a sterile, petrified society. Toynbee, who had considered Babylon as a distinct civilization, later changed his mind and described it as a late phase of Mesopotamian civilization - because its inspiration was Mesopotamian culture.







Post#90 at 11-30-2011 04:32 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Page with old posts about Babylon. Scroll down to near the bottom of the page.







Post#91 at 12-02-2011 01:53 PM by scotths [at joined May 2009 #posts 321]
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uber uber...

To me the Saeculum is symmetric. The assumption here is that an Artist generation is assigned to the previous Saeculum while the Prophet generation is the first generation of the new Saeculum. Couldn't we rework the analysis assuming that the Artist is the first generation or even go so far as to start a Saeculum with a Nomad or Civic generation? That would shift the focus from the creation than implementation of a new set of ideas to the creation of a new world and the effect it has on a new generation but I think would still work.

The problem I see with the significance of uber-uber is that any of the 4 uber generations can become an uber-uber generation if the system is shifted such that that generation starts the cycle. In the example here, the prophet generation start the cycle and is thus the only generation that can be uber-uber. If we start the cycle with the Artists instead than an artist generation would become uber-uber. The artist generation at the start of the Mega-High (previously the artist generation at the end of the mega-crisis) would now be elevated both to uber and to uber-uber.

My interpretation of this is that what we have is a layered effect in which the direction of motion in a Mega-Saeculum is orthogonal to that in a Saeculum or at least concerned with different things. For instance, if an Awakening sees the creation of new religions or religious denominations perhaps a Mega-awakening sees the creation of a whole new class of religions which actually may be initially ill defined. I think it would be a mistake thus to look a quantity or even quality of religions put forth by a prophet generation and expect a large number new and high quality religions to appear in a Mega-awakening. In fact, any new religions that do form could be a hold-over from the previous mega-saeculum (in the same way that the civics of a prior saeculum can keep trying to build greater and greater things into an awakening while the world is crumbling around them). What we should instead look for is new and exceptionally broad ideas that begin circulating not just in the awakening but throughout the entire mega-saeculum.

For this reason I tend to agree with those who beileve that we are in a mega-awakening now and were in a mega-crisis during the civil war.


Consider Lincoln's speech to the Illinois Republican convention in 1858:


Mr. President and Gentlemen of the Convention.


If we could first know where we are, and whither we are tending, we could then better judge what to do, and how to do it.


We are now far into the fifth year, since a policy was initiated, with the avowed object, and confident promise, of putting an end to slavery agitation.


Under the operation of that policy, that agitation has not only, not ceased, but has constantly augmented.


In my opinion, it will not cease, until a crisis shall have been reached, and passed.


"A house divided against itself cannot stand."


I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free.


I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided.


It will become all one thing or all the other.


Either the opponents of slavery, will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates will push it forward, till it shall become alike lawful in all the States, old as well as new -- North as well as South.
Lincoln came to power with the rising belief that the differences in our country must be resolved and in a time in which there were very significant differences between life and culture in the northern and southern parts of our country. In the election of 1860 the people were offered a northern oriented compromise candidate in Douglass and a southern oriented compromise candidate in Bell. Both the north and south rejected Douglass and Bell for Lincoln and Breckinridge making an unequivocal statement that the north and south division will and must be resolved. The reality of the situation perhaps outstripped or at least matched the rhetoric of the time.

Consider the contrast with the election of 2008. From the Obama's red state/blue state speech of 2004:

Now, don’t get me wrong. The people I meet -- in small towns and big cities, in diners and office parks -- they don’t expect government to solve all their problems. They know they have to work hard to get ahead, and they want to. Go into the collar counties around Chicago, and people will tell you they don’t want their tax money wasted, by a welfare agency or by the Pentagon. Go in -- Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can’t teach our kids to learn; they know that parents have to teach, that children can’t achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white. They know those things.

People don’t expect -- People don't expect government to solve all their problems. But they sense, deep in their bones, that with just a slight change in priorities, we can make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life, and that the doors of opportunity remain open to all.
In this speech Obama asks us to focus on what we share in common in order that we may find a path forward in which a people of different priorities and beliefs can co-exist together. He is calling for modest change to the government to accomplish this. Contrast that both with Lincoln above who calls outright for a resolution to our differences through the extinguishing of one or the other way of life and also with the rhetoric currently present in our country that drastically outstrips the reality of the situation. A modest compromise healthcare plan is simultaneously derided as un-American socialism and a corporate sell out. A small tax increase amounting to a few percentage points is derided a "soaking the rich" and "class warfare". To me the rhetorical divisions being much wider than the actual policy choices is indicative of a nation dividing along religious and belief oriented lines while sharing for the most part a common lifestyle and infrastructure. Also, many of Obama's policies such as "Race to the top" focus on allowing different regions and even individual schools to work out there own ways of accomplishing what we agree as our common goal of an adequate education for everyone.

So, in the mega-crisis we resolved the north south divide with the northern forward looking culture extinguishing the southern reactionary culture. In the mega-high we saw efforts to bring the gains of the mega-crisis to everyone. Those who benefited most from the assertion of the northern way of life were asked to share those gains by a coalition backed by those who were vanquished in the previous crisis. In many ways it was a refinement. In this Saeculum we see a new religious movements in the north especially around environmentalism which is noted by Robert Nelson in his book "The New Holy Wars" as rather raw and with contradictory theology. Other regions respond with a reactionary push while our way of life across the different regions of our country stands more similar than it ever has and we elect a leader who does not wish to resolve these differences but rather look for ways for us to coexist. The resolution of an awakening can and should feel dissatisfying to those who take strong positions on one side or the other during that awakening as it isn't until the crisis that those differences are resolved and one or the other side asserts itself as dominant. I believe ultimately the resolution of this mega-awakening will ultimately be dissatisfying (for some) and inconclusive and allow these beliefs to develop side by side into the next mega-unraveling.


Quote Originally Posted by Alioth68 View Post
I noticed that two "ubers" in a row occur at the megasaeculum boundaries too--"uber-artist" followed by "uber-idealist"--and these mark periods of particularly great change (end of Medieval Age, and beginning of Industrial Age). Interesting.







Post#92 at 12-06-2011 04:01 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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So...we have a Crisis constellation of Nomadic Idealists, Uber Nomads, and Nomadic Civics. In the past I noticed that during the Glorious Revolution in the colonies, different areas seemed to each have its own 4T, with different events. I wondered if this was due to circumstances, but now I'm thinking that this will be a splintering 4T. This may be a subtype of a fracturing Crisis, with the other subtype being civil war.







Post#93 at 05-30-2012 08:45 PM by Gianthogweed [at joined Apr 2012 #posts 590]
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Interesting to think about, but the sample size is far too small to come up with a pattern of four cycles making up one mega cycle. Now, if you were to examine country like China, who's society has been united for much longer than Europe, then maybe you can start to make sense of a four cycle pattern.







Post#94 at 05-30-2012 08:50 PM by JonLaw [at Hurricane Alley joined Oct 2010 #posts 186]
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Isn't the Megasaeculum just a play on Spengler's Civilizational Model?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spengle...lization_model
The future always casts a shadow on the present.







Post#95 at 05-31-2012 09:31 AM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by JonLaw View Post
Isn't the Megasaeculum just a play on Spengler's Civilizational Model?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spengle...lization_model
It is, in the same way Chas88's microcycle theory is a play on S & H. What we're doing is filling in the fractals.

Incidentally, I bought and read Barzun's From Dawn To Decadence despite the insistence of my friends that he's nothing but a sour Old Phart whining that the younger generation has gone to the dogs. To my pleasant surprise, I discovered it to be a thorough and comprehensive history of the arc of Western Civilization Part A (1485-1917 in the Anglosphere), with the megacycle showing up very clearly.

He also proved to my satisfaction (though I already believed it) that whatever our current culture will be called later, it is distinct from the one he was outlining, and that is fairly obvious. I have the book racked with Generations, Fourth Turning, The Great Wave, Spengler, and Toynbee in a section of my bookshelf I call "...and why are we in this handbasket?"
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#96 at 05-31-2012 09:34 AM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by 95 and alive View Post
While at first I was disagreeing with Grey Badgers conclusion that we are in a Mega- Unraveling and thought we were in a Mega Awakening. When I think about it makes sense. The problem is that The Mega High's always begin in an Atonment Saeclum, which seems better to put Mega High's in an Advancment saeclum beause the Advancment and the following Atonment saeclum have a similar culture. But however, think of it this way: Atonment saeclum's don't really invent anyting new culturally. Instead, they just expand on the ideas implanted in the Advancment Saeclum. So its more approptiate for Mega Awakening's to begin in Advanment cycles because they attack the already existing culture.


Mega High: Late Medeavial Saeclum- Still in Medevial time.

Mega Awakening: Tudor Saeculm- New ideas are implanted and Renaissance

Mega Unraveling: New World Saeculum: New ideal is establised. Hence a "New World"

Mega Crisis: Revelutionary Saeculum: Ideal is under attack. " A reveloution of the new ideas.
I consider the "late medieval" Megahigh in England to be the reign of Henry VII, and the MegaAwakening to begin some time during the reign of Henry VIII, for those who care to pinpoint it that way. King James presided over the beginning of the MegaUnraveling and Charles II over its peak. If that's any help.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#97 at 05-31-2012 01:04 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Grey Badger View Post
I consider the "late medieval" Megahigh in England to be the reign of Henry VII, and the MegaAwakening to begin some time during the reign of Henry VIII, for those who care to pinpoint it that way. King James presided over the beginning of the MegaUnraveling and Charles II over its peak. If that's any help.
I see it. Then, taking it the other way... Edward I presided over the peak of the MegaUnraveling? Edward III onwards all feels as though it's pushing towards the War of the Roses, slowly but surely at first, like a train leaving a station. First Edward III can't keep it in his pants... then Edmund the Black Prince dies... then his son Richard II takes the throne as a prince, with his mother Joan of Kent & some corrupt advisors influencing him more...the peasant's revolt because wages haven't been changed since the Black Death swept through England... John Wycliffe, being the "morning star" of the Reformation, inadvertantly is going about puffing up the peasants with belief that God thinks all people are special by sending priests out to villages to preach the word on a more individual level and is busy translating the Latin vulgate Bible into plain Middle English. Richard II turns out to be a corrupt King (surprise surprise ), and the nobility have to play fast and loose and get him to agree to abdicate so they can put Bolingbrooke on the throne. Bolingbrooke/Henry IV's seizure of power makes other realms in England think they can not recognize his authority and they rise up and attempt to break away. Henry IV defeats them and then dies and gives power to his son, Henry V who goes on renewing the Hundred Years War in France like Alexander the Great to try and conquer it all and get the crown--which he manages to do, but he dies shortly thereafter leaving it to his infant son Henry VI, who grows up to be a pious man whose corrupt ministers loose everything in France sending England home and talking about doing what they did to Richard II to Henry VI, cue War of the Roses, out of which we get a triumphant Henry VII. Fade out... end of Late Medieval Saeculum.

It makes me consider what a very close & contested election might do to us here in the US in this 4T--or what a very heated impeachment debate might do. Could it be possible to have two different sects of our society recognize two different presidents and go to war over the dispute if it's percieved that the system which decides which is the "appropriate" leader is too corrupt to be trusted? One thing I know for sure, we opened a can of worms when we impeached Nixon--one which could possibly come back to bite us in the butt either now or in the future.

~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 05-31-2012 at 01:13 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#98 at 05-31-2012 01:52 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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05-31-2012, 01:52 PM #98
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Quote Originally Posted by 95 and alive View Post
Well, I guess Im still "iffy" on what Mega Seaclum we are in. I might do a poll (might) on if Mega's High's should begin in Atoment saeclum's rather than Advancment.

Mega High Atoments
+ A new yet outdated era
+ Set's the stage for the Mega advanment Awakening
+ Focus on perserving the Advancment Saeclum's culture, so no new ideas are implented.
- The advament and following atonment saeclums have a similar culture.
- Still in the same era
- Mega Atonment Unravelings don't seem like a war crisis and are bloodles ( Gloruios Revolution)



Mega High Advanments
+ Birth of a new era
+ Follows the advancment/atonment saeclum rhtym
+ Megas -Awakenings make sense ( if you look at it a diffrent way)
- The next 4T might be a Crisis-Crisis beause of recourse shortages
- The Advanment Crisis make more sense
- The "Mega esblashiment" already gets attacked in a Mega-Advanment High only to be more in the Mega Awakening
I'm sold that we are in a Mega Unraveling, especially when comparing today with the Glorious Revolution. That means the left over stuff that everyone is going "whatever" to now will be the issues the next 4T. One which may create a "new" USA altogether. Maybe a fragmented one.

I like your breakdown, btw. I personally think Vietnam created an anti war culture which will stay with us until all the generations who lived in a period affected by that culture, die off.
Last edited by millennialX; 05-31-2012 at 01:55 PM.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer







Post#99 at 05-31-2012 01:55 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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05-31-2012, 01:55 PM #99
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Reading about the Great Power Saeculum I am convinced that it is a Mega-Awakening. Look at the intellectual currents of the 2T and 3T and the artistic movements after WW1.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#100 at 05-31-2012 01:57 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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05-31-2012, 01:57 PM #100
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Reading about the Great Power Saeculum I am convinced that it is a Mega-Awakening. Look at the intellectual currents of the 2T and 3T and the artistic movements after WW1.
Agreed. We traded "intellectual" for "individuality." Thats a major theme in this Mega 3T. Every artist and celebrity wants to prove how "real" they are....yet they are conforming to a "real" thats manufactured or shared by everyone else in world.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
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