What's the deal?

Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

What's the deal?

It's the real-estate offering of a Gated-Community for the Coming Crisis.

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

It's the real-estate offering of a Gated-Community for the Coming Crisis.

I can arrange for subprime mortgages at very attractive rates!

John

Originally Posted by Flyingeye76

While I understand the grievence behind the action, I'm not sure it's nessisary or even in the right direction. Yes, thread hijacking and focus on off-topics (mainly political) has been a major bane to the community. But having to create a seperate area to discuss what the webforum was designed to discuss in the first place is really inefficient.

Why not simply state that all discussion (unless there's a general topics area) must pertain or directly involve the generational theory.(i.e. discussion on how the Bush admin.actions are a sign of the current turning are ok, simply arguing whether the current admin. sucks\rules isn't). To enforce this why not appoint a few trusted and generally non-partisan members as moderators with the power to delete any post? I could be wrong but people like The Wonkette are a good choice. This wouldn't be out of order because even light discussion forums such as TV show forums enforce a topical debate discussion.

That my two cents anyway. I'm not sure where exactly this community is headed for.

Why not leave well enough alone and invite Xenakis to start his own forum at his own site?

Originally Posted by Mustang

Why not leave well enough alone and invite Xenakis to start his own forum at his own site?

I'll add a hearty amen to that. We ramble, go off topic and snark around more than we should, but we all keep coming back and adding our $0.02. I'm certain that I won't bother to post in a nanny-forum ... but that's me.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

I'll add a hearty amen to that. We ramble, go off topic and snark around more than we should, but we all keep coming back and adding our $0.02. I'm certain that I won't bother to post in a nanny-forum ... but that's me.

I am okay with John forming his own forum here. People have the choice of participating in it or not.

I just don't agree with giving him the power to delete posts that were made previous to him becoming a site moderator.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

I am okay with John forming his own forum here. People have the choice of participating in it or not.

I just don't agree with giving him the power to delete posts that were made previous to him becoming a site moderator.

I'm with CoS. I also find it interesting that nobody has posted in his forums outside of the moderator thread.

Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis

I can arrange for subprime mortgages at very attractive rates!

John

And I've got a river in New Mexico I can sell, complete with downstream water rights. <G>

Dear Jenny,

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

> I'm with CoS. I also find it interesting that nobody has posted in
> his forums outside of the moderator thread.

Very funny. It's been up for just two days and you're already
gloating. I thought it was only men who demanded instant
gratification.

Speaking now not to Jenny but in general, do you people ever look at
yourselves? Why are some of you people so full of hatred? Why are
some of you so wrapped up in your narcissistic boomerism that not a
single one of you can see an opportunity here?

Except for housekeeping details between me an Matt and Nathaniel, and
that grossly disgusting sequence that's been purged, almost nobody
has posted to those threads for weeks, so there's no reason for
things to change in just two days. There have been years of having
someone odiously attack and drive off anyone who dared to attempt an
intelligent discussion with me. It's been a long time since I've
suggested to people who contact me through my web site that they come
here, and some people who used to come here have told me that they're
as disgusted by what this place had become as I am. It will take more
than two days to turn things around again.

I look upon this as an evolutionary change, and I expect the
evolution to take months, not days. If you really hate it that much,
then just ignore it for a few months, and then check in again around
Thanksgiving or Christmas, and see if anything's changed by then.

For those of you who do see this as a positive opportunity, let's
think about how we might move forward in the future to the benefit of
the entire Fourth Turning community.

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

A rule against ad hominems, or in some cases, ad feminams, would clear up a lot of the trouble on the open forums.

Dear Pat,

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

> A rule against ad hominems, or in some cases, ad feminams, would
> clear up a lot of the trouble on the open forums.

Great idea! Let's do it!!!!!

Ummmmmm .... by the way ... who would be willing to take on the chore
of enforcing that rule? Most people here don't actually DO anything.
They just complain about people who DO do things.

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis

Speaking now not to Jenny but in general, do you people ever look at
yourselves? Why are some of you people so full of hatred? Why are
some of you so wrapped up in your narcissistic boomerism that not a
single one of you can see an opportunity here?

Uh, I prefer my moderators to be more -- moderate in their responses to people. I'll pass.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

Uh, I prefer my moderators to be more -- moderate in their responses to people. I'll pass.

I'm not a moderator here. If you have something to say, then say it.

John

Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis

I'm not a moderator here. If you have something to say, then say it.

John

You went off on this huge rant in response to Jenny's comment.

Of course it's obvious that this change is only a few days old, and not everyone is up to speed on what's going on -- so maybe that's why they're not posting.

It could also be because you've been acting in a very overbearing, very defensive manner when you've been questioned, and perhaps a few folks are wondering whether they want to post in your area because of that.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

You went off on this huge rant in response to Jenny's comment.

Of course it's obvious that this change is only a few days old, and not everyone is up to speed on what's going on -- so maybe that's why they're not posting.

It could also be because you've been acting in a very overbearing, very defensive manner when you've been questioned, and perhaps a few folks are wondering whether they want to post in your area because of that.

That was a response to many comments. I'm still waiting for someone,
anyone, to say something, anything, about how this could be a
positive opportunity for all of us, because it can.

John

Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis

That was a response to many comments. I'm still waiting for someone,
anyone, to say something, anything, about how this could be a
positive opportunity for all of us, because it can.

John

John,

As I've said before, I think that this is experiment is a good idea, and that it can provide a positive opportunity for the discussion of The Theory beyond what it taking place right now.

I'd love to participate, but at the moment, there's nothing in the moderated discussion area that appeals to me. The topics that you selected were ones that you started because they were interesting or important to you, but they're not ones that I'd posted in before they were moved to the moderated area. For one reason or another, they just don't interest me.

As a suggestion, you might consider creating a thread for the general discussion of generational theory, and then allow topics that people show a great deal of interest in to spin-off into their own threads.

Originally Posted by The Rani

That's exactly the problem. The rule exists, but there is no enforcement, so in reality the rule doesn't exist.

If an ad hominem falls in the forum, and no one's there to plonk it, does it make a sound?

Originally Posted by Semo '75

If an ad hominem falls in the forum, and no one's there to plonk it, does it make a sound?

If an ad hominem is aimed at someone, and they shrug it off, should anybody else care?

Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis

Dear Pat,



Great idea! Let's do it!!!!!

Ummmmmm .... by the way ... who would be willing to take on the chore
of enforcing that rule? Most people here don't actually DO anything.
They just complain about people who DO do things.

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

I'll call them on it. Nobody will listen, though.

Dear Kiff,

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

> If an ad hominem is aimed at someone, and they shrug it off,
> should anybody else care?

I think you WAY underestimate how much people are hurt by attacks.
I've known people -- not in this forum -- who were almost emotionally
destroyed by personal attacks. The fact that you've developed
techniques to immunize yourself from the emotional effects of
personal attacks doesn't mean that other people have. You also speak
critically of my being "defensive," but that's how I deal with them.
You're certainly not doing anyone any favors by just saying you can
"shrug off" personal attacks, because it's not that easy for a lot of
people. (Incidentally, that's why some people think it's nice to
have the "protection" of a moderator.)

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

Dear Pat,

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

> I'll call them on it. Nobody will listen, though.

You'll just be another faint voice, a-blowin' in the wind.

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

If an ad hominem is aimed at someone, and they shrug it off, should anybody else care?

Sure, because nobody wants to waste time and effort posting in a forum that appears to be made up primarily of quarreling second graders*. Nobody wants to waste time and effort on a post that's going to end up buried under an avalanche of personal drama by the following day. (The same can be said of all the one-post vanity threads, but that's not a general problem, it's tied to one specific individual's need for attention.)

You don't have to be the target in order to find that sort of stuff annoying.

It's not just a matter of ignoring it, because that's fairly easy even without the ignore function. It's a matter of thinking long and hard about how much is worth not ignoring these days.

Every once in a while, a new poster will show up, post some comments about the theory, only to disappear a few days later after they're simply ignored, someone tries to enmesh them in drama, or one of our "brave" partisan crusaders decides to play sheriff and make an example of them.

This whole "controversy" is a perfect example of what I'm talking about! In an attempt to coax older posters back and get new posters to stick around, John suggested to Craig a moderated area where people could discuss The Theory without worrying about being caught up in ridiculous drama.

The response?

Drama.

----
* Note to the uninitiated: I have participated in more than my fair share of this in the past.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Like I said ...

All the world so dearly loves a car crash.

Dear Chris,

Originally Posted by Semo '75

> Sure, because nobody wants to waste time and effort posting in a
> forum that appears to be made up primarily of quarreling second
> graders*. Nobody wants to waste time and effort on a post that's
> going to end up buried under an avalanche of personal drama by the
> following day. (The same can be said of all the one-post vanity
> threads, but that's not a general problem, it's tied to one
> specific individual's need for attention.)

> You don't have to be the target in order to find that sort of
> stuff annoying.

> It's not just a matter of ignoring it, because that's fairly easy
> even without the ignore function. It's a matter of thinking long
> and hard about how much is worth not ignoring these days.

> Every once in a while, a new poster will show up, post some
> comments about the theory, only to disappear a few days later
> after they're simply ignored, someone tries to enmesh them in
> drama, or one of our "brave" partisan crusaders decides to play
> sheriff and make an example of them.

> This whole "controversy" is a perfect example of what I'm talking
> about! In an attempt to coax older posters back and get new
> posters to stick around, John suggested to Craig a moderated area
> where people could discuss The Theory without worrying about being
> caught up in ridiculous drama.

> The response?

> Drama.

> ----

> * Note to the uninitiated: I have participated in more than my
> fair share of this in the past.

This is a FANTASTIC description of what goes on. Thank you for
posting it. It's greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis

Dear Kiff,



I think you WAY underestimate how much people are hurt by attacks.
I've known people -- not in this forum -- who were almost emotionally
destroyed by personal attacks. The fact that you've developed
techniques to immunize yourself from the emotional effects of
personal attacks doesn't mean that other people have. You also speak
critically of my being "defensive," but that's how I deal with them.
You're certainly not doing anyone any favors by just saying you can
"shrug off" personal attacks, because it's not that easy for a lot of
people. (Incidentally, that's why some people think it's nice to
have the "protection" of a moderator.)

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

I have been around for a long time and have read a lot of harsh stuff in a variety of places. I am fine with the give-and-take on the open forum and will continue posting there. I am also fine with you taking on a moderated forum here for those folks who want one.

Please restore the old posts to their respective threads, unexpurgated, and let's move on.