Originally Posted by ASB65

So for all you INFJ's out there, this may be something to consider. Perhaps you are at your best in your career when you aren't working closely with other people around. I picture a bio-scientist to be sitting in a lab by themselves working on the data in front of them.

This is so true. I love working from home and am very irritable right now because I have been around another person every minute today.

My wife is an introvert and respects my space, so she doesn't count.

Here's the dilemma....I love eating by myself at lunch...but also want to eat with people so that I won't miss a "bonding experience" outside of work.
I love to be included so want people to let me know if they are going out...but at the same time don't want to be asked and left alone so I won't be boxed in their plans. I know....crazy....

Originally Posted by millennialX

This is so true. I love working from home and am very irritable right now because I have been around another person every minute today.

My wife is an introvert and respects my space, so she doesn't count.

Here's the dilemma....I love eating by myself at lunch...but also want to eat with people so that I won't miss a "bonding experience" outside of work.
I love to be included so want people to let me know if they are going out...but at the same time don't want to be asked and left alone so I won't be boxed in their plans. I know....crazy....

Hum. Perhaps the solution might be to go to lunch with your coworkers sometimes and excuse yourself other times. Maybe just go to lunch with others 2 times a week out of the five days. That way they will still ask and won't automatically exclude since you do go part of the time, but you would still have the peace and quiet 3 out of the 5 days.

It's good that your wife is an introvert. I'm not. I'm extrovert with the "E" part of my Myers Briggs being very dominate. I had to learn to respect his space. In the beginning it just never occurred to me that he needed it. And I really do try, but I know I still get on his nerves at times. I can see it in his face and I know he is thinking, "God, if only she would just shut up and go away." The poor guy, he is surrounded by E's. Both our children are E's too. This probably another reason why he stays out in the guest house late into the evening.

Originally Posted by ASB65

Hum. Perhaps the solution might be to go to lunch with your coworkers sometimes and excuse yourself other times. Maybe just go to lunch with others 2 times a week out of the five days. That way they will still ask and won't automatically exclude since you do go part of the time, but you would still have the peace and quiet 3 out of the 5 days.

It's good that your wife is an introvert. I'm not. I'm extrovert with the "E" part of my Myers Briggs being very dominate. I had to learn to respect his space. In the beginning it just never occurred to me that he needed it. And I really do try, but I know I still get on his nerves at times. I can see it in his face and I know he is thinking, "God, if only she would just shut up and go away." The poor guy, he is surrounded by E's. Both our children are E's too. This probably another reason why he stays out in the guest house late into the evening.

Yes, she so introvert at times, that I appear as an extravert. But the thing is, me being an introvert doesn't mean I'm not social or am shy. People have a hard time believing I'm one because I have chatty moods. The thing is my preference is for recharging my energy alone.

So I think its mostly about having recharge time for us INFJ's. Odin and Rose1992 can probably add to this.

Originally Posted by millennialX

Here's the dilemma....I love eating by myself at lunch...but also want to eat with people so that I won't miss a "bonding experience" outside of work.
I love to be included so want people to let me know if they are going out...but at the same time don't want to be asked and left alone so I won't be boxed in their plans. I know....crazy....

Not crazy at all(says the INTJ)!

In fact, I always believed it to be a Nomad characteristic.
I call it: "Always have an Exit Strategy".

I suppose it's kind of a Control Mechanism.
I don't have very many ...oh what's that word that everyone knows but me.....oh yeah: Manners!

Because of the lack of the Manners-thingy,
I know that I am often considered too blunt,
mis-undertood, or .....Anti-Social!
So, by having an Exit Strategy,
I can determine how much exposure I want to have in a given situation.

So, in a way it's really about not wanting to be around people
when I know that there is more of a chance for my "wanting my space".
Those are the times when it is more likely that the mis-communications happen.

PoC67

PS: See, I'm really just a "people person"!

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Not crazy at all(says the INTJ)!

In fact, I always believed it to be a Nomad characteristic.
I call it: "Always have an Exit Strategy".

I suppose it's kind of a Control Mechanism.
I don't have very many ...oh what's that word that everyone knows but me.....oh yeah: Manners!

Because of the lack of the Manners-thingy,
I know that I am often considered too blunt,
mis-undertood, or .....Anti-Social!
So, by having an Exit Strategy,
I can determine how much exposure I want to have in a given situation.

So, in a way it's really about not wanting to be around people
when I know that there is more of a chance for my "wanting my space".
Those are the times when it is more likely that the mis-communications happen.

PoC67

PS: See, I'm really just a "people person"!

Yes...control mechanism. Wow...some one should pay you. Thats it.

Lets just say that I have grown out of a lot of my control freak ways....but that must still be a hangover.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Not crazy at all(says the INTJ)!

In fact, I always believed it to be a Nomad characteristic.
I call it: "Always have an Exit Strategy".

I suppose it's kind of a Control Mechanism.
I don't have very many ...oh what's that word that everyone knows but me.....oh yeah: Manners!

Because of the lack of the Manners-thingy,
I know that I am often considered too blunt,
mis-undertood, or .....Anti-Social!
So, by having an Exit Strategy,
I can determine how much exposure I want to have in a given situation.

So, in a way it's really about not wanting to be around people
when I know that there is more of a chance for my "wanting my space".
Those are the times when it is more likely that the mis-communications happen.

PoC67

PS: See, I'm really just a "people person"!

You sound a lot like my husband. His social skills are lacking. He often comes off as too blunt or anti-social. Especially to people who really don't know and understand him. And it's not that he is a mean guy or uncaring. He truly is a nice guy and means well. He just has a difficult time expressing himself or choosing his words correctly at times.

I don't know about you, but my husband can't even fake it around large groups of people. He is extremely uncomfortable and it is quite obvious to most anyone that he just simply doesn't want to be there. I come from this big, loud, very social family. I know he usually dreaded going to my family gatherings. One time several years after we had been married, we were down at my grandparent's house along with all my aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. My husband, my sister, my aunt & I ended up going off down into the basement and sat at the bar for hours, having drinks, talking and laughing. (The rest of the family were off in other rooms in the house.) At one point towards the end of the evening my aunt looked at my husband and said, "You know Tony, I really like you. I never had any idea how much fun you were until tonight." It was at that point we all decided that 4 people was his limit. As long we kept the group to a maximum of people he was fine. Anymore than that, was too many.

His boss recently suggested to him that he thought it would be helpful if he read the book, "How to Make Friends and Influence People." Like a good little soldier he did. I asked him when he was done if he thought he learned anything. He said he felt that he actually had and plans to keep it on his Kindle so he can refer back to it. So maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks after all.

Originally Posted by TimWalker

Obama's State of the Union address....

Definitely had a positive tone; suggested Advancement rather than Atonement.

Yes it did Tim. The question i/r/t APT would be what?

I'm going to free associate here a bit and see if anything sticks.

Forgive me if this is "Old Hat".

ARC-Advancement
CWC-Atonement
GPC-Advancement
Current-????????

We're kinda assuming it will be Atonement, although I know either Publicly or Privately I've talked about the possibility that it could be either(and a Third choice, in fact).

Could we say:

Advancement-
Looking Forward-
Future-
Imagination-

Atonement-
Looking backward-
Past-
Memory-

In this context, a specific topic could really go either way.

Let's take Global Warming:
(excuse my lack of "Clean" Terminology)

Advancement-
Renewables-
Economic Sense/Thought-
Practical-

Atonement-
Non-Crude/NG-
Moral Sense/Feel-
Ideal-

If we believe that Global Warming MUST be a catalyst, the Way in which(How) we achieve the Goal would determine the Advancement/Atonement Outcome.

I'll stop here for now..

PoC67

PS: Always "Ends vs Means".....anyone ever notice that? I know I have!

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Yes it did Tim. The question i/r/t APT would be what?

I'm going to free associate here a bit and see if anything sticks.

Forgive me if this is "Old Hat".

ARC-Advancement
CWC-Atonement
GPC-Advancement
Current-????????

We're kinda assuming it will be Atonement, although I know either Publically or Privately I've talked about the possibility that it could be either(and a Third choice, in fact).

Could we say:

Advancement-
Looking Forward-
Future-
Imagination-

Atonement-
Looking backward-
Past-
Memory-

In this context, a specific topic could really go either way.

Let's take Global Warming:
(excuse my lack of "Clean" Terminology)

Advancement-
Renewables-
Economic Sense/Thought-
Practical-

Atonement-
Non-Crude/NG-
Moral Sense/Feel-
Ideal-

If we believe that Global Warming MUST be a catalyst, the Way in which(How) we achieve the Goal would determine the Advancement/Atonement Outcome.

I'll stop here for now..

PoC67

PS: Always "Ends vs Means".....anyone ever notice that? I know I have!

I was okay with atonement but as of last nights speech realize that it may and/or should be Advancement.

Obama's speech didn't really move me that much...but the one quote that stood out for me was "Lets fix what needs fixing and lets move forwards."

I like his 1T vision and believe he could have even gone further with it.

At my job we have to take a test which reveals our top 5 strengths.

1) Input
2) Individualization
3) Intellection
4) Futuristic
5) Arranger


Note the futuristic, so I like always moving forward and being around those who can visualize.

What's this third choice you mentioned?

Originally Posted by ASB65

You sound a lot like my husband. His social skills are lacking. He often comes off as too blunt or anti-social. Especially to people who really don't know and understand him. And it's not that he is a mean guy or uncaring. He truly is a nice guy and means well. He just has a difficult time expressing himself or choosing his words correctly at times.

I don't know about you, but my husband can't even fake it around large groups of people. He is extremely uncomfortable and it is quite obvious to most anyone that he just simply doesn't want to be there. I come from this big, loud, very social family. I know he usually dreaded going to my family gatherings. One time several years after we had been married, we were down at my grandparent's house along with all my aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. My husband, my sister, my aunt & I ended up going off down into the basement and sat at the bar for hours, having drinks, talking and laughing. (The rest of the family were off in other rooms in the house.) At one point towards the end of the evening my aunt looked at my husband and said, "You know Tony, I really like you. I never had any idea how much fun you were until tonight." It was at that point we all decided that 4 people was his limit. As long we kept the group to a maximum of people he was fine. Anymore than that, was too many.

His boss recently suggested to him that he thought it would be helpful if he read the book, "How to Make Friends and Influence People." Like a good little soldier he did. I asked him when he was done if he thought he learned anything. He said he felt that he actually had and plans to keep it on his Kindle so he can refer back to it. So maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks after all.

Toastmasters might help your husband. It helped me a lot with my social skills. It isn't just learning to speak in front of groups without throwing up. It involves giving positive but constructive feedback, listening, and leading meetings. It involves working with volunteers.

There are clubs all over the world. The link above has info on them.

Originally Posted by ASB65

You sound a lot like my husband. His social skills are lacking. He often comes off as too blunt or anti-social. Especially to people who really don't know and understand him. And it's not that he is a mean guy or uncaring. He truly is a nice guy and means well. He just has a difficult time expressing himself or choosing his words correctly at times.

I don't know about you, but my husband can't even fake it around large groups of people. He is extremely uncomfortable and it is quite obvious to most anyone that he just simply doesn't want to be there.

You sound as if you believe these to be "bad' qualities!

Life's too short to go "fake-ing" it, don't 'cha think?
OK, sometimes, but generally speaking:
I agree; About 4 is the limit.

PoC67

PS: Has he taken the MBTI?

Originally Posted by millennialX

Obama's speech didn't really move me that much...but the one quote that stood out for me was "Lets fix what needs fixing and lets move forwards."


What's this third choice you mentioned?

If Obama is a Mature Nomad, then I suspect that the third choice would be Pragmatic Problem Solving.

Originally Posted by ASB65

You sound a lot like my husband. His social skills are lacking. He often comes off as too blunt or anti-social. Especially to people who really don't know and understand him. And it's not that he is a mean guy or uncaring. He truly is a nice guy and means well. He just has a difficult time expressing himself or choosing his words correctly at times.

I don't know about you, but my husband can't even fake it around large groups of people. He is extremely uncomfortable and it is quite obvious to most anyone that he just simply doesn't want to be there. I come from this big, loud, very social family. I know he usually dreaded going to my family gatherings. One time several years after we had been married, we were down at my grandparent's house along with all my aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. My husband, my sister, my aunt & I ended up going off down into the basement and sat at the bar for hours, having drinks, talking and laughing. (The rest of the family were off in other rooms in the house.) At one point towards the end of the evening my aunt looked at my husband and said, "You know Tony, I really like you. I never had any idea how much fun you were until tonight." It was at that point we all decided that 4 people was his limit. As long we kept the group to a maximum of people he was fine. Anymore than that, was too many.

His boss recently suggested to him that he thought it would be helpful if he read the book, "How to Make Friends and Influence People." Like a good little soldier he did. I asked him when he was done if he thought he learned anything. He said he felt that he actually had and plans to keep it on his Kindle so he can refer back to it. So maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks after all.

You just described me to a T. I read Carnegie's book at a fairly young age and it did help me make cognitive choices in dealing with others.

Or, as my bro PoC67 puts it, develop "control mechanisms."

Originally Posted by millennialX

Yes, she so introvert at times, that I appear as an extravert. But the thing is, me being an introvert doesn't mean I'm not social or am shy. People have a hard time believing I'm one because I have chatty moods. The thing is my preference is for recharging my energy alone.

So I think its mostly about having recharge time for us INFJ's. Odin and Rose1992 can probably add to this.

I am VERY sociable if I'm in a small group of people I know very well, otherwise I'm very quiet.

Originally Posted by ASB65

You sound a lot like my husband. His social skills are lacking. He often comes off as too blunt or anti-social. Especially to people who really don't know and understand him. And it's not that he is a mean guy or uncaring. He truly is a nice guy and means well. He just has a difficult time expressing himself or choosing his words correctly at times.

I don't know about you, but my husband can't even fake it around large groups of people. He is extremely uncomfortable and it is quite obvious to most anyone that he just simply doesn't want to be there. I come from this big, loud, very social family. I know he usually dreaded going to my family gatherings. One time several years after we had been married, we were down at my grandparent's house along with all my aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. My husband, my sister, my aunt & I ended up going off down into the basement and sat at the bar for hours, having drinks, talking and laughing. (The rest of the family were off in other rooms in the house.) At one point towards the end of the evening my aunt looked at my husband and said, "You know Tony, I really like you. I never had any idea how much fun you were until tonight." It was at that point we all decided that 4 people was his limit. As long we kept the group to a maximum of people he was fine. Anymore than that, was too many.

His boss recently suggested to him that he thought it would be helpful if he read the book, "How to Make Friends and Influence People." Like a good little soldier he did. I asked him when he was done if he thought he learned anything. He said he felt that he actually had and plans to keep it on his Kindle so he can refer back to it. So maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks after all.

Has anyone suggested that your hubby might be an Aspie? Most aspies over 40 are undiagnosed because the diagnosis was not around until 1994.

Originally Posted by Odin

I am VERY sociable if I'm in a small group of people I know very well, otherwise I'm very quiet.

That's me. In small groups I can be loud, goofy (maybe playfully obnoxious) and then just at peace with being quiet and saying nothing, especially if I have nothing to say.

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

You sound as if you believe these to be "bad' qualities!

Life's too short to go "fake-ing" it, don't 'cha think?
OK, sometimes, but generally speaking:
I agree; About 4 is the limit.

PoC67

PS: Has he taken the MBTI?

Well, I do feel that there are situations where, yes, you do have to put on a happy face. I do it all the time. There have been lots of times over the years where I didn't really want to go somewhere, but for whatever reason, I knew I had to go and I had to be pleasant. One situation which doesn't apply to me so much anymore but to my husband would be a business dinner. And is this one of the reasons why his boss suggested he should read that book.

Yes, he has taken the MBTI.

Originally posted by Odin
Has anyone suggested that your hubby might be an Aspie? Most aspies over 40 are undiagnosed because the diagnosis was not around until 1994.

I knew you were going to say that. No, I don't believe he is an Aspie. I do have a nephew with this diagnosis, so I understand the characteristics and behaviors. I would say that he might have some of a few of the characteristics, but not enough of them for him that a professional would put him in the category.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Good start, but I think people need to get away from the mistake made by Kiersey. The four types are not combinations of either N/S or T/F with J/P.

F,T,N,S are psychological interior functions, and ways of processing information.
J/P/E/I are modes of energy and behavior.

I think the two are quite distinct. It would be nice if people came up with analyses that were based on a proportional and logical combination of the Myers-Briggs types.

Is there something you’ve read that discusses F/T/N/S versus J/P/E/I? It’s entirely possible that I have bought into a flawed model. Even if it is a weakness on my part, Kiersey’s ideas help me to find some of the symmetry that I think is inherent in the cycle. Perhaps I am making subconscious corrections by recognizing that it would not explain why Artists are generational chameleons, while nomads are anything but. That being said, I’m not quite ready to abandon my use of it.

That said, I think your four types are worth considering. There is something to it. I have a wheel symbol I work with based on philosophy, with four directions. Left and Right on the Wheel definitely have to do with freedom and structure. Up and Down have to do with spiritual vs. material. The material direction at least is similar to a desire for security. This is not an identical idea to yours, but it shows there is a basic universal pattern we are both hooking into.

For what it's worth, My approach would yield the following:

Challenge = spiritualist = NF and maybe I (perhaps predominantly prophets)
Comfort = materialist = ST and maybe E (some tendency toward nomads, maybe adaptives in later years)
Freedom = existentialist = SF and P (some relationship to adaptives, and nomads in early years)
Structure = rationalist = NT and J (some relationship to civics)

I think my definition of "challenge" would not be problem-solving, and so not T, but imagination and ability to have ideas and seek change to bring them into being. It would be like RFK's statement "I see things that never were, and say why not." That is most of all related to the N function, and is based on a spiritualist approach to life that says consciousness is the cause of or prior to objects, and to established, stable reality.

"Comfort" seeks security in the way things are, and desire for things and stability. That is primarily related to S = sensing. Rational thinking (T) is based on manipulating objects, so more akin to comfort (and also to structure = J), while Feeling is about empathy and subtle or sensitive ways of getting information, hence more spiritual and related to ideals (and also to freedom or openness = P), and therefore to challenge.

The problem is finding a single word that perfectly describes an idea. Freedom and Structure appear to be clear enough, but the other two perhaps need more explaining.

When I say “challenge,” I am not referring to a desire to challenge authority. Rather I am referring to a personal challenge – to push one ’s self to do a thing that is not considered easily done. For the NT, this could be solving a very difficult problem (lust for understanding), for the SP, it could be enduring great physical discomfort (lust for adventure). Some people would just as soon quit living as to not pursue these things.

When I say “comfort,” I do not simply mean pleasure. Rather I am referring to a desire for simplicity, perhaps in decision making, perhaps in making “safe” investments. This is why I offer” security” as an alternative word.

While I’m not sure what to make of Micro-Turnings (not really sold on it as a fun theory) I do see where four of our recent consecutive presidents seem to represent the dynamics of two saecula in the same number of decades:

As noted earlier, Jimmy Carter had (has) the characteristics that I am predicting will hold true of the Millennials, because he favors atonement over advancement. S&H identified him as a “suppressed” GI, which I took to mean that he was a “virtual Silent.” I’ve abandoned that idea, and I now see him as a “virtual Atonement Hero.“ Also, elsewhere, I came to see Reagan having the characteristics of an “echo Missionary,” because he had advancement ideas that were compatible with an open society. We get a taste of the next awakening, then, by observing the manner in which Carter was caught off guard by Reagan .

Follow this up by observing that Bush 41, unlike Reagan, was very much a typical GI. Interestingly, Bush 41 was an affirmation of Reagan’s popularity, while not a continuation of his policies. We ended up, then, with a true GI out of season. Bush 41 was, in turn, totally unprepared for true Boomer, Bill Clinton, and like Carter was a one-term president. Would it have been all that hard to imagine a younger version of Jimmy Carter being Clinton’s VP?

So, let’s review:

Jimmy Carter – virtual Atonement Hero

Ronald Reagan – virtual Advancement Prophet

George H. W. Bush – typical Advancement Hero

Bill Clinton – Typical Atonement Prophet

Originally Posted by JDW

Is there something you’ve read that discusses F/T/N/S versus J/P/E/I? It’s entirely possible that I have bought into a flawed model. Even if it is a weakness on my part, Kiersey’s ideas help me to find some of the symmetry that I think is inherent in the cycle. Perhaps I am making subconscious corrections by recognizing that it would not explain why Artists are generational chameleons, while nomads are anything but. That being said, I’m not quite ready to abandon my use of it.

The problem is finding a single word that perfectly describes an idea. Freedom and Structure appear to be clear enough, but the other two perhaps need more explaining.

When I say “challenge,” I am not referring to a desire to challenge authority. Rather I am referring to a personal challenge – to push one ’s self to do a thing that is not considered easily done. For the NT, this could be solving a very difficult problem (lust for understanding), for the SP, it could be enduring great physical discomfort (lust for adventure). Some people would just as soon quit living as to not pursue these things.

When I say “comfort,” I do not simply mean pleasure. Rather I am referring to a desire for simplicity, perhaps in decision making, perhaps in making “safe” investments. This is why I offer” security” as an alternative word.

Originally Posted by JDW

While I’m not sure what to make of Micro-Turnings (not really sold on it as a fun theory) I do see where four of our recent consecutive presidents seem to represent the dynamics of two saecula in the same number of decades:

As noted earlier, Jimmy Carter had (has) the characteristics that I am predicting will hold true of the Millennials, because he favors atonement over advancement. S&H identified him as a “suppressed” GI, which I took to mean that he was a “virtual Silent.” I’ve abandoned that idea, and I now see him as a “virtual Atonement Hero.“ Also, elsewhere, I came to see Reagan having the characteristics of an “echo Missionary,” because he had advancement ideas that were compatible with an open society. We get a taste of the next awakening, then, by observing the manner in which Carter was caught off guard by Reagan .

Follow this up by observing that Bush 41, unlike Reagan, was very much a typical GI. Interestingly, Bush 41 was an affirmation of Reagan’s popularity, while not a continuation of his policies. We ended up, then, with a true GI out of season. Bush 41 was, in turn, totally unprepared for true Boomer, Bill Clinton, and like Carter was a one-term president. Would it have been all that hard to imagine a younger version of Jimmy Carter being Clinton’s VP?

So, let’s review:

Jimmy Carter – virtual Atonement Hero

Ronald Reagan – virtual Advancement Prophet

George H. W. Bush – typical Advancement Hero

Bill Clinton – Typical Atonement Prophet

First, I understand that you're not doing what I will describe below; It is only a caveat.

I get lost when the Micro-Turnings is extrapolated to the Generational Archetypes as opposed to the actual Turnings themselves. The same thing happened on Chas original Thread. People started looking at themselves as Nomad-artists and Civic-nomads and such.

While there may be something there, I'm not interested in going there and I believe Chas has stated as much himself.

Personally, I'd like to get back to the Advancement/Atonement aspect of the APT. That's what makes the most sense to me.


As to your above 2 posts, I'm still trying to work-through the new ideas that you pro-posed recently.

PoC67

PS: Still love the Concept of APT though; It's helped me INCREDIBLY!

Originally Posted by JDW

While I’m not sure what to make of Micro-Turnings (not really sold on it as a fun theory) I do see where four of our recent consecutive presidents seem to represent the dynamics of two saecula in the same number of decades:

As noted earlier, Jimmy Carter had (has) the characteristics that I am predicting will hold true of the Millennials, because he favors atonement over advancement. S&H identified him as a “suppressed” GI, which I took to mean that he was a “virtual Silent.” I’ve abandoned that idea, and I now see him as a “virtual Atonement Hero.“ Also, elsewhere, I came to see Reagan having the characteristics of an “echo Missionary,” because he had advancement ideas that were compatible with an open society. We get a taste of the next awakening, then, by observing the manner in which Carter was caught off guard by Reagan .

Follow this up by observing that Bush 41, unlike Reagan, was very much a typical GI. Interestingly, Bush 41 was an affirmation of Reagan’s popularity, while not a continuation of his policies. We ended up, then, with a true GI out of season. Bush 41 was, in turn, totally unprepared for true Boomer, Bill Clinton, and like Carter was a one-term president. Would it have been all that hard to imagine a younger version of Jimmy Carter being Clinton’s VP?

So, let’s review:

Jimmy Carter – virtual Atonement Hero

Ronald Reagan – virtual Advancement Prophet

George H. W. Bush – typical Advancement Hero

Bill Clinton – Typical Atonement Prophet

So THAT'S why I like Carter so much!

Originally Posted by JDW

:As noted earlier, Jimmy Carter had (has) the characteristics that I am predicting will hold true of the Millennials, because he favors atonement over advancement.

I wonder if that might result in people having a more favorable view of him, especially since he was in favor of conservation before it was cool.

Enough of my peers have asked my Government teacher "remind me again why everyone hated Carter"

Originally Posted by Rose1992

I wonder if that might result in people having a more favorable view of him, especially since he was in favor of conservation before it was cool.

Enough of my peers have asked my Government teacher "remind me again why everyone hated Carter"

HAHAHA, I always thought the same thing!!! In my mind Carter is the Consciousness Revolution embodied.

Originally Posted by Odin

HAHAHA, I always thought the same thing!!! In my mind Carter is the Consciousness Revolution embodied.

Yes Odin, in YOUR mind. The Conciousness Revolution embodied on the opposite side of the Left/Right Paradigm is Reagan IMO. I suspect that is the Antithesis of the CR for you.

Some of us are outside of the that L/R Paradigm and see it very clearly.

Note: This is not a personal indictment; Only an INTJ-thingy. Cool?

PoC67

IMO a good example of the Atonement nature of Millies is Emo. The Emo-look had a boom in popularity just as Millies started comming of age. Emotionality and existential moping is accepted among Millies and even seen as cool and edgy, which is very different from GIs.

Originally Posted by Odin

IMO a good example of the Atonement nature of Millies is Emo. The Emo-look had a boom in popularity just as Millies started comming of age. Emotionality and existential moping is accepted among Millies and even seen as cool and edgy, which is very different from GIs.

You see it in Chekhov's plays the same kind of emotional behavior amongst the younger generation coming of age in The Cherry Orchard. Yepikhodov's speech marks me as being a predecesser to Emo culture:

YEPIKHODOV: I'm a true product of the educational system; I read all the time. All the right books too, but I have no chosen directive in life. For me, strictly speaking, it's live or shoot myself. That's why I always carry a loaded pistol. See? [Takes out a revolver] I should explain, by the way for the sake of expressivity, that fate has been, ah, rigorous to me. I am, strictly speaking, tempest-tossed. Always have been. Now, you may say to me, Oh, you're just imagining things, but then why when I wake up this morning--here's an example--and I look down, why is there this spider on my stomach? Detrimentally large too. [Makes a circle with his two hands] Big as that. Or take a beer, let's say. I go to drink it, what do I see floating around in it? Something highly unappreciative, like a cockroach. [Pause] Have you ever read Henry Thomas Buckle? [Pause] May I design to disturb you Dunyasha, with something I have to say?

DUNYASHA: So say it.

YEPIKHODOV: Preferentially alone. [Sighs. Eyes Yasha]

DUNYASHA [Embarrassed] All right... Only first get me my wrap; it's by the kitchen door. It's getting kind of damp.

YEPIKHODOV: Ah, I see. Yes, get the wrap, of course. Now I know what to do with my gun. [Takes his guitar and goes off strumming]

Translation:

Yepikhodov: God shits on me. Bad shit keeps happening to me. I'm as unlucky as all hell. You don't pay any attention to me, I proposed to you and now you're chasing after Yasha, and I think I might just kill myself after all.

Quite emo...

~Chas'88