For what it's worth, I think I have just figured out that I am a virtual suppressed Boomer. How's that for convolution!
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For what it's worth, I think I have just figured out that I am a virtual suppressed Boomer. How's that for convolution!
....and how does determine if they are a virtual suppressed whatever generation ???
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
An example - suppose you have a core Xer with the personality type of a gentle, quirky, mildly subversive artist? Not that there's anyone on these boards like that! (Heh-heh). That's a Suppressed Xer and a Virtual Silent.Originally Posted by millennialX
Thanks!
Wish I could meet this Xer.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
I'm probably a virtual Boomer, in that my parents stayed together and pretty much indulged us as children. They allowed us to feel that we could change the world. This contrasted with other members of my 1963 cohort, whom I never felt had much vision.
That being said, had I actually been a Boomer, the question comes up as to whether I would have fit in with 1960 cohorts or earlier. Just for the fun of it, I imagined that I would be too advancement minded for that to happen. Having thought about it a little more, though, I think I would have fit in rather well. I'm probably a little more atonement than I have realized.
Last edited by JDW; 03-08-2011 at 10:34 PM.
I would like to revisit something that I have discussed before, but now with a clarification on something that I had misunderstood: I had somehow gotten it in my mind that the authors had identified Dwight Moody as a Missionary. I don’t know where I got that; he’s not mentioned in Generations, and I can’t find my copy of The Fourth Turning. Dwight Moody, as it turns out was born in 1837, making him a “Gilded,” the same age as Grover Cleveland. I put Gilded in quotation marks, because I continue to make the case that the 1837 – 1843 cohort group were probably atonement Heroes that got absorbed into neighboring generations, because the authors were looking for advancement characteristics.
This is exciting to me, because I have long suspected a continuous alternation of Prophet led Awakenings and Hero led 1T revivals:
Protestant Reformation – Reformation Prophets come of age, after having been imprinted during the Renaissance, and promoting new doctrine.
Merrie England – During this post- Armada era, the Elizabethan Heroes begin imprinting Puritan children, by putting the 1611 AV in every home.
Puritan Awakening – Puritan Prophets come of age, promoting new social mores.
Augustan Age – During this post-Crisis era, the Glorious Heroes (such as Cotton Mather) begin imprinting Awakening children through a more established Calvinist ethic. (I may have to reexamine this one.)
Great Awakening – Awakening Prophets come of age, re-evaluating doctrine, of both the church (John Wesley, Jonathon Edwards and George Whitefield) and the role of government (Benjamin Franklin).
Era of Good Feelings – During this post- Revolution period, the Republican Heroes begin imprinting Transcendental children, through “circuit riding” preaching (Francis Asbury), a working U.S. Constitution (Thomas Jefferson, James Madison) and an established foreign policy (James Monroe).
Transcendental Awakening – Transcendental Prophets (such as Charles Finney) come of age re-evaluating social mores.
Reconstruction/Gilded Age – Heroes hidden between Gilded and Progressive (such as Dwight Moody) begin imprinting Missionary children through post-war revivals.
Missionary Awakening – Missionary Prophets come of age challenging government policy (William Jennings Bryan) and evangelistic methods (missionaries and early Pentecostals).
American High – During this post-WWII period, GI Heroes begin to imprint Boomer children. Some (such as Billy Graham) conduct evangelistic campaigns, while others conduct healing campaigns. Ultimately, their efforts are undone by the entertainment industry.
Consciousness Revolution – Boomer Prophets come of age challenging all mores established during the previous five saecula.
In the past, a distinction has been made between "good Boomers" and other Boomers. Where do those who push atonement fit in?
I don't know if any of you have read Neil Howe's blog post on google ngrams. He talks about how there is a pedalum effect between sex and death. That if one is talk about a lot then talking about the other is discouraged. Would that fit the advancement/atonement dichotomy or is it entirely different.
Some of you more versed in literature would know a lot more about it than me. (That could help explain the generation X goth culture to an extent)
It really matters whose side you fall on now doesn't it.
I pointed this out a few months ago:
& then I ellaborated:
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Thanks for all that. I did notice a while back you showed an alternation between sexual repression and sexual freedom. I haven't check it out, but we are obviously living in a sexual freedom saeculum. So our prophet grandkids will probably be sick of sex and obsessed with death. That's really interesting.
An epiphany just hit me. I was going to wittily reply that we'll all have Edgar Allen Poe for kids. As I was writing this I heard in my head a quote from Beetlejuice where he goes on about saying how he likes the Deets' "Edgar Allen Poe daughter". And inspiration hit me.
We can surmise that Prophets look to their "grandparents" i.e. previous Nomads for inspiration in their revolt. The connection between the Lost & the Boomers is something that's popping up in ways I never thought of before as I review Boomer focused materials. In fact I wouldn't even just limit it to the general interaction between Nomads and Prophets, but every generation is inspired by their "grandparent" generation. Hence the Millennials reference the Silents in their tastes, their cultural critiques, fashions, worldview, etc. The New Silents (little kids right now) will reference the Boomers. The Xers reference the GIs. The Boomers the Lost. The Silents the Missionaries. This is especially true concerning each generation's counter culture I've noticed. Silents for example had strong ties to a French-focused counter-culture akin to the Missionaries & their love affair with Paris (Gertrude Stein).
So what we might expect of the next Prophets is for them to look up the Gen X's countercultures and bring them back with a new way. So I expect to see a revival of Goths (perhaps?) when they start coming of age. Just imagine protesting Goths... that'll blow away the minds of most of the Milliennial Generation who know the Xer version of the Goth. Again, the New Prophets, if they take it--for all I know they could instead choose Big Hair and Metal bands--will remake the image of the Goth & make it their own, like Millies have made Beatniks/Hipsters their own. But the inspiration will be from Grandma & Grandpa. You see what I'm saying/thinking?
Again, biased opinion.
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 03-11-2011 at 07:15 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
We can already see the seeds of the "Death" paradigm being sewn with the Children's Book Series: "An Unfortunate Series of Events", which is set in a very Steampunk-y type of world.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Definitely see what you are saying and this doesn't seem like a theory. It seems like a fact of nature.
I'm just trying to make a connection to my GI grand parents now. Interesting things occur when you have huge families in play and children being born later in peoples life....which throws things off.
My dad was the 8th child of my grand parents and he had me closer to 30. My mom's parents had her when they were around 40.
You actually fit into what I'm saying well due to your war baby parents.
Btw, I can actually see similarities in the styles of late 60's/ 70's boomer and the Lost generation actors in all of those early silent films.
Last edited by millennialX; 03-11-2011 at 07:26 PM.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
I can also see the New Silents go unplugged and singer song writer boomerish. A reaction to millie's synth music?
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Yeah me and my War Baby Parents & Interbellum Grandparents screwing up my cultural cohesiveness with my generation. However it does perhaps explain outliers in a way. To me the late 50s & early 60s seems a lot closer and "not that long ago" since that's my parent's worldview. However I talk to my age peers & they complain about how that's more their "grandparents" & how those times were "so long ago...". Whose ones parents are does seem to make a difference in an individual's cultural worldview.
An early Xer (as the youngest of 8 or so kids) with a late Greatest cusper for a parent would have a completely different worldview than the "normal" Xer with a late-wave Silent for a parent.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
So the next New Silent's equivalents to "hipsters" will be hippie-esque perhaps? I can see that going over
"well" with those Xer parents.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Wow....the idea of grandparents having Elvis and Chuck Berry as contemporaries feels wrong to me.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Me too, but apparently not my age peers whom I talk with.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
I do want to mention China both seem off limits in conversation. Their culture is sexed, but it is pretty hidden like the 50s. Every girl says she is a "traditional girl", but that isn't always the case. I think pornography is illegal or was illegal for a time. Now would a death cycle include lack of respect for human life because I do see that. One poster predicted a crisis in China, but it was based on lots of humanitarians coming out of the wood work. I was thinking "Where are all these humanitaries gunna come from?" So I think the posters prediction is nearly impossible at that may be because we are in an advancement cycle.
I do want to add dating for highschoolers is still looked down upon. I have a student who is in highschool and his mother made him break up with his girlfriend. It was crazy she went to the cell phone company and got the content of his text messages. She probably has a lot of clout because not just anyone can do that.
Last edited by pizal81; 03-11-2011 at 09:55 PM.
Think of it in terms of the 1920s in America. During that decade we had a minor sexual revolution which foreshadowed the major sexual revolution that would arrive in the 1960s. So the ground work has been laid for the next Chinese Idealist generation to have a greater sexual revolution.
Also the "traditional girl" thing reminds me of the movie musical: Thoroughly Modern Millie. Where the Interbellum Millie goes throughout the movie trying to be a "modern" girl--i.e. a flapper by being "man's equal" and ruthlessly seducing & "marrying her boss" with love not being a major factor. However by the end of the film, she realizes she's fallen in love the "old fashioned way" and marries for love a man infinitely better than her boss was. And one of the lines at the end is her realization that she's not a "modern" but an "old-fashioned traditional girl" afterall. So I'd say in that way those Chinese girls are "traditional girls".
Yes I'd say so. That seems to be the largest Atonement critique of an Advancement focused cohorts. You find it in literature especially. It's also fed by the fear of death--whether that death be symbolic or cultural. Think of the lack of respect for human life that it took for Hitler to kill Jews. Or for White Americans to continue Jim Crow laws. And also think of what these groups represented to these cultures: a threat that was going to possibly kill their culture. And they also represented "hinderences" which "prevented" the major culture from achieving some form of "greatness". I'm sure you could provide examples in China.Now would a death cycle include lack of respect for human life because I do see that. One poster predicted a crisis in China, but it was based on lots of humanitarians coming out of the wood work. I was thinking "Where are all these humanitaries gunna come from?" So I think the posters prediction is nearly impossible at that may be because we are in an advancement cycle.
Interesting. Dating for Highschoolers was frowned upon for teenage GIs, wasn't it? I believe it was them... but I could be wrong.I do want to add dating for highschoolers is still looked down upon. I have a student who is in highschool and his mother made him break up with his girlfriend. It was crazy she went to the cell phone company and got the content of his text messages. She probably has a lot of clout because not just anyone can do that.
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 03-12-2011 at 01:31 AM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Take a listen to the following Millie targeted songs song by current popular artist who seem like they have been influenced by the silents.
Bruno Mars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI6YP...eature=related
Cee Lo Green:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKxodgpyGec
Katy Perry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98WtmW-lfeE
Vampire Weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XC2mqcMMGQ
Other songs still have a similar vibe even without 50's type music behind the lyrics.
But you know millie music borrows from various periods. I mean consider this Express Yourself like/ 90's sounding song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV1FrqwZyKw
Other songs sound like straight up disco.
But anyway...I can see how being influenced by music of the silents is possible considering this was an early hit for us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR_hpdVuEug
Last edited by millennialX; 03-11-2011 at 11:59 PM.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Well right now I see Western culture as slowly reverting to a chaotic primordial state from which a new culture will emerge to replace the old one. This was started by the Missionaries, continued by the Boomers, and will be pushed even further by the New Prophets.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Hummm, okay.....I can live with change and prayerfully I will still be living.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Oh none of us will most likely live to see the new cultural order, until then, we're only getting pushed further into that chaos which we haven't completely jumped into yet. We keep trying to pull ourselves out of that primordial chaos by reactivating our nostalgia for older periods or exploiting other cultures (most notably Asian cultures--that's where the Missionaries started) which still have life left in them. It won't be until our society completely lets go and accepts the fact that the past is dead that the new era will be born. I don't even think the New Prophets will get us there. However the next Idealists after the New Prophets will probably get us there.
The last Idealist generation to do this were the Idealists that led the Reformation.
Why am I obsessing over the "primordial chaos"? Every mythological creation story begins with primordial chaos out of which a new order is born. The next new order will most likely not only redefine Western Civilization--it'll also most likely make Christianity irrelevant. Astrologers talk about it as the "Age of Aquarius". With the Age of Pisces (the Fish) being the Christian era.
This is something I'd like to think about further before posting here about. It's still an idea of mine under construction.
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 03-12-2011 at 01:04 AM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
