I'd argue that Twain was a cusper or a late Nomad. Tom Sawyer was the Bart Simpson of his time... and Tom Sawyer was based on himself to some degree.
~Chas'88
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I'd argue that Twain was a cusper or a late Nomad. Tom Sawyer was the Bart Simpson of his time... and Tom Sawyer was based on himself to some degree.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
What makes Booker T Washington an adaptive? Could he be an atoning hero? (I do remember asking this when I first joined).Originally Posted by Chas'88
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Because S&H say so. That's why!
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Fine.....Because S&H say so. That's why!
~Chas'88
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Actually I agree that the Civil War generations have to be re-examined.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Me too! And btw, Mr. Howe, if you are reading this....do you plan to address this, again? As a matter of fact, when are you releasing another book!
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Booker T. Washington was ultimately an advancer (mirror image of the Civil Rights Silents). He was more cautious than Advancement Prophet W.E.B. Du Bois.
I'm under the impression that it was Bill Strauss who promoted the theory, while Neil did all the laborious research. I base that especially on the blogs, which seem entirely focused on empirical data.Me too! And btw, Mr. Howe, if you are reading this....do you plan to address this, again? As a matter of fact, when are you releasing another book!
A couple of 1662 cohort Glorious (atonement Heroes) that I missed are Matthew Henry and Samual Wesley.
Upon further thought, an answer:
Eugenics Movement
Social Darwinism
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Here is an interesting glimpse of an Atonement 1T.
George Gordon seems to be an example of an Atonement Hero. (This would effectively add 1836 to Cleveland and McKinley's cohort group.)
I'd also argue that George Custer is more of an Atonement Hero than a Nomad. That would add 1839.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
If you agree with me that the Atonement Heroes include the 1836 - 1843 cohort group, then Custer is already included. I am interested in why you specifically include him. True, he graduated near the bottom of his class; so the fact that he was an underachiever does not implicate the entire cohort.
I would also make the case that John Wilkes Booth was not a Nomad, any more than the Columbine killers were.
The largest reason I included Custer was his hubris--that is a very Civic trait from what I've observed--both pre-Crisis in Millies & post-Crisis in GIs.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
There is force sterilization in China now too.
Hadn't thought of that. Excellent point!
Umm...I agree with your choices guys. But that doesn't mean I'm happy with them as examples! Geez...
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
The point is not to bash Millies, but to push back on the idea that evil is automatically a Nomad characteristic.
Do any of you know a site where i can get some information on "The Third Great Awakening" I know there were labor fights, but what were themes. It'd be like saying the Consciousness revolution was solely about Vietnam. That was a rallying, but not the whole.
OK, here are a couple more beloved Atonement Heroes: Pa Ingalls and Pastor Alden.
Last edited by JDW; 03-26-2011 at 10:42 PM.
I think it had to do with expanding America's role in the world, whether through the missionary movement itself or "manifest destiny." The Wesleyan holiness movement promoted the idea that a few sanctified individuals could change the entire world for the better. Collective bargaining somewhat paralleled this on the secular side.
So basically the adult characters on Little House on the Prairie are examples of good atoning civics? Okay, I can see where you're coming from, now.
BTW. Nomads are not the only generation to illustrate evil. I think a discussion of the evil of each archetype deserves its own thread. But then again...we have already talked about evil war baby parents, crazy world destroying arguing boomers and nomads being...well nomad. So I guess we need a thread focusing on the evils of the civic generation. I can start with all those robotic youth who supported Hitler!
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
I already have a thread devoted to looking at the "darker side" of archetypes as I put it. Evil is a loaded term and very bi-polar, not allowing for some grey areas to exist where people aren't wholely good or evil.
The thread never really took off.
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 03-27-2011 at 01:19 AM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Agreed. I've often heard that the Gilded are automatically Nomads because after the Civil War they lied about serving in the Civil War or overplayed minor roles they had played during the war. And the reason they did as such was because they felt the deserved it or desired such recognition.
Quite frankly I don't see a large difference in justifying that and the GI's justification for their cooshy retirement at the expense of their Xer & Millennial grandchildren and bragging about it with bumper stickers saying that "they're spending their grandchildren's inheritance". And quite frankly I've found some WWII vets who only were "deployed" the last day of the war & never saw any action--but did a lot of the rebuilding in Europe & Japan--who have just as much of a hubric "we deserve so much" additude that I imagine the "lying" Gilded had. And quite frankly I think with the majority of WWII vets who actually saw action mostly dead--these "just missed the fighting" types have taken up the role of pretending to be more GI than they actually are--and have been doing so since the 1990s IMO.
I expect Millennials to hold a similar attitude come their retirement age, provided a good outcome to this Crisis occurs. As I expect the Homeland cuspers to be itching to fill our shoes & exaggerate their own roles once most of us are dead.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
