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Thread: The Alternating Paradigm Theory (APT) - Page 32







Post#776 at 07-10-2014 04:10 PM by annla899 [at joined Sep 2008 #posts 2,860]
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Quote Originally Posted by JDW View Post
Actually, "mastering peace" (my words), though the stated intent, is Orwellian. In reality, it was mastering war, with the UN becoming a tool for the politically powerful to control the outcome of war. (The "military industrial complex" and communist interests during the Asian wars come to mind.)

Note that during the Civil War saeculum, making government work efficiently was not the goal. Rather (as one breaks in a book or a pair of shoes) the institutions were weakened to make room for a moral agenda. Likewise, there an agenda to bring about "fairness" regarding healthcare, immigration, etc. There is absolutely no effort to do any of this efficiently or consistently. Not until the next saeculum would there be an effort to fix the logistical problems (which is way too long to wait).
Thank you for the context. Much to think about here.







Post#777 at 07-14-2014 05:14 PM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,502]
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Quote Originally Posted by apollonian View Post
Mike: this answer of urs, copied above, DEFINITIVELY shows just what a brainless moron u really, truly are, buddy.

See, u're invoking ad-hominem fallacy, judging info by the source--this may be INDUCTIVE evidence for quality of info, to be sure. But u GOTTA address the actual info itself--
The "evidence" is assertions of opinion.

does it make sense, is there foundation, evidence?--are there sources for the story/info?--it's an outstanding story and info.
It doesn't make sense.

Obama had opposition in the 2008 primary and two general elections. Your source implies that a smoking guns exists that would have allow any of Obama's three opponents to dafeat him, had they used it. They did not use it.

There are three possibilities (1) none of the three above wanted to be president (2) all three of them and everyone in their campaigns are colossally stupid (3) your source is wrong.

1. Did Hillary Clinton not want to be president? Of course she did. Did neither John McCain or Mitt Romney want to be president? Of course they did. People do not run for president TWICE if they don't want to be president. So I rule out #1.

2. One does not make the money Romney made and be stupid, so I reject #2.

This leaves #3 by process of elimination.
Last edited by Mikebert; 07-14-2014 at 05:20 PM.







Post#778 at 07-14-2014 08:39 PM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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Quote Originally Posted by annla899 View Post
Thank you for the context. Much to think about here.
Here is another tweak of the theory: Perhaps advancement cycles can be seen as establishing, whereas atonement cycles are disestablishing.







Post#779 at 07-14-2014 09:42 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by JDW View Post
Actually, "mastering peace" (my words), though the stated intent, is Orwellian. In reality, it was mastering war, with the UN becoming a tool for the politically powerful to control the outcome of war. (The "military industrial complex" and communist interests during the Asian wars come to mind.)
Listening to a Podcast which is talking about all the build up to WWI that came out of the Napoleonic Wars. And the guy's talking about the above very much so. Moltke the Younger asked "How does one make war more humane?" and Alfred von Schlieffen responded by saying "You make it short."

The difference in opinion between an Artist (well, Civic/Artist cusper) and a core Civic.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#780 at 07-16-2014 04:19 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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JDW, here is a good 1970s BBC historical tele-play episode based on the reign of Henry VII. This episode especially reminded me of the APT. In it a Lollard is condemned to die and it very much becomes an argument between a dying Advancement paradigm & the current in power Atonement paradigm.

Or how they phrase it in the show:

Reason (Advancement) vs. Mystery (Atonement).

Lollardy began in the Saeculum prior to the Late Medieval Saeculum (if you go by Mikebert's medieval dates), and its founder, John Wycliffe is considered the "Morning Star of the Reformation".

I look forward to how you interpret the Advancement/Atonement dynamics of the Tudor 1T from it. I think it will help you crack the APT into earlier periods as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6blI7vVkjU
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#781 at 07-16-2014 10:16 PM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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Thanks. I'll have to look at it later, but I'm intrigued. Can you or Mike direct me to the thread where he discusses Wycliffe? (I assume he has Wycliffe as a prophet.)







Post#782 at 07-17-2014 10:21 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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http://www.fourthturning.com/forum/s...949#post476949

Actually Wycliffe works out to be a core Nomad himself, who inspired the Awakening that came after him.
Last edited by Chas'88; 07-17-2014 at 10:23 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#783 at 07-18-2014 06:40 PM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
http://www.fourthturning.com/forum/s...949#post476949

Actually Wycliffe works out to be a core Nomad himself, who inspired the Awakening that came after him.
From what I have read so far, you and Mike have done an outstanding job on this!







Post#784 at 08-29-2014 08:26 PM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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When S&H first came out with their theory in the early ‘90s, we got the impression that all Idealists (Prophets) were hippies and all Civics (Heroes) were eagle scouts and that Millennials would somehow “rebel” against Boomers and become another generation of GIs. The fact that it didn’t happen that way appears to debunk the credibility of the entire theory.

The misunderstanding has to do with Generations having been written not long after the Consciousness Revolution, which appeared simply to be one youthful generation rejecting an elder generation. The bigger picture however is that it was the beginning of a new saeculum rejecting an established saeculum.

Rethinking the four stages, I come up with the following:

2T – Awakening
3T – Braking
4T – Unleashing
1T – Establishing

An Awakening begins as a challenge to the established mindset. This catches Heroes completely off guard, because their entire life experience has told them that this is the ideal mindset. It was the mindset of the Prophets before them. It had already stood the test of a Nomad challenge (or at least the more conservative members of society) during the previous 4T and had therefore “proved” itself. Nor did the younger Artists seem to have a problem with it. Now, however, even the Artists seem to be okay with the strange new mindset of these younger Prophets.

A Braking begins after the Awakening has “jumped the shark.” By now, Prophets have laid everything they have on the table, allowing other generations to regroup. Older Artists (and some Heroes) find a way to salvage some of the traditional ideas in the context of the new, while younger Nomads attempt in vain to undo the Awakening completely. It becomes a tug-of-war between the old way and the new way, with neither side scoring a huge victory. Meanwhile, the proponents of the Awakening bide their time by preparing a new generation.

An Unleashing occurs when Heroes, completely indoctrinated in the new mindset, come of age replacing older traditionalists. Their sheer numbers remove some of the conservative forces that stalled the Awakening’s agenda, allowing it to move forward with considerably less resistance. These young Heroes become the soldiers (not necessarily literally) who allow the Prophets to finish what they started. Opponents of the Awakening are either converted or silenced.

An Establishing occurs once the Prophets have fulfilled their vision, the Nomads have been tamed and Heroes and young Artists convince themselves that society for the first time has a permanent mindset.
Last edited by JDW; 08-31-2014 at 08:16 AM. Reason: changed "4T - Fulfilling" to "4T - Unleashing"







Post#785 at 09-06-2014 09:59 AM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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As an additional tweak to the theory, I would like to propose the following terms:

The Establishment is the status quo from the prior saeculum that is virtually unchallenged during a 1T. During a 2T, as the "old" paradigm comes under attack, it is the Heroes who struggle to maintain it.

The Radical Awakening is the first wave of the "new," reawakened paradigm during a 2T, as Prophets come of age. (Artists may play a role in this as well.) It is these first-wavers who mark the beginning of the end for the establishment, as the old paradigm gives way to the new.

The Counter-Awakening is the conservative alternative to the radical awakening. It too is led by Prophets and/or Artists and incorporates the new paradigm. Putting the brakes on the radical awakening agenda during a 3T, it initially appears to be a pendulum swing back to the establishment. It is possible (though rare in recent times) for the counter-awakening to prevail during a 4T - in which case the principles of the radical awakening are likely to reappear during the next 2T, though according to the opposite paradigm.

The Reaction is the young Nomad response to the Awakening. It is neither truly atonement nor advancement, but a rejection of whichever one the new paradigm happens to be. Once the Nomads have gotten it out of their system (3T or 4T), the reaction subsides, and the Nomads fall in line with the new paradigm.







Post#786 at 09-06-2014 06:10 PM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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During the early 14th century, the Establishment would have been an atonement position by the Catholic Church. The Radical Awakening (advancement in nature) was perhaps William of Ockham's "apostolic poverty." Despite an assist by Wycliffe, it was apparently defeated by the Counter-Awakening, which no doubt was some advancement response by the Church.

By the early 15th century, the previous Counter-Awakening has emerged as the Establishment (advancement). The previous Radical Awakening emerged once again, this time in atonement form, via the Lollard's. The Counter-Awakening takes a romantic atonement form, overcoming the Lollard challenge.

At the start of the 16th century, the Lollard Radical Awakening re-appeared, this time in advancement form via the Reformation. The Catholic Church was one again the Establishment in atonement form. The Counter-Awakening was the Counter-Reformation (also advancement). For the first time in centuries, the Radical Awakening prevailed.

The new, advancement, Establishment emerged in the form of a strong monarch (due to a weakened Vatican). The atonement Puritans led the Radical Awakening. A Counter-Awakening loyal to the crown emerged.

To be continued.







Post#787 at 09-06-2014 07:02 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by JDW View Post
When S&H first came out with their theory in the early ‘90s, we got the impression that all Idealists (Prophets) were hippies and all Civics (Heroes) were eagle scouts and that Millennials would somehow “rebel” against Boomers and become another generation of GIs. The fact that it didn’t happen that way appears to debunk the credibility of the entire theory.

The misunderstanding has to do with Generations having been written not long after the Consciousness Revolution, which appeared simply to be one youthful generation rejecting an elder generation. The bigger picture however is that it was the beginning of a new saeculum rejecting an established saeculum.

Rethinking the four stages, I come up with the following:

2T – Awakening
3T – Braking
4T – Unleashing
1T – Establishing
Sounds good to me. Although as the authors pointed out, 4Ts are when major changes occur in institutions and new ones are founded. In 1Ts they are stabilized and developed.

Civics don't have to rebel against prophets; they naturally become civics without rebelling against the older generation. They help establish the new saeculum, which new prophets challenge in turn. Whatever is established, later decays. That's the cycle.

I theorize that the difference between prophets and civics in this regard, is the difference between institutions and culture. Institutions are physical, and culture is spiritual. Any institution, like any physical entity, which civics establish, and prophets envision before them, becomes set in its ways and decays; while culture is always being created anew from spirit.

So institutions need to be challenged, even though once progressive; culture is constantly created, and old culture is just a background for newer culture. Culture is created in all turnings, but may be especially creative in a 2T, spurred by artists and prophets, and altered or debated in 3Ts by prophets and nomads. Institutions are mostly built in late 4Ts and 1Ts by civics, led by prophets and nomads.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#788 at 09-06-2014 08:38 PM by Einzige [at Illinois joined Apr 2013 #posts 824]
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A hypothetical, based on this premise:

Quote Originally Posted by JDW View Post
It is possible (though rare in recent times) for the counter-awakening to prevail during a 4T - in which case the principles of the radical awakening are likely to reappear during the next 2T, though according to the opposite paradigm.
Extrapolate the next several Turnings from this statement.

I assume this means the technocratic Missionary 'advancement' Awakening prevails for the second time under this system, presumably this time from a Red/right-wing perspective.

What, then, does the advancement pseudo-Boomer agenda look like in the next Awakening? The hippies on steroids? How does it differ from the 1960s movement?
Things are gonna slide
Slide in all directions
Won't be nothin'
Nothin' you can measure anymore

The blizzard of the world has crossed the threshold
And it has overturned the order of the soul
When they said REPENT (repent), I wonder what they meant

I've seen the future, brother:
It is murder

- Leonard Cohen, "The Future" (1992)







Post#789 at 09-09-2014 07:29 AM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
I assume this means the technocratic Missionary 'advancement' Awakening prevails for the second time under this system, presumably this time from a Red/right-wing perspective.
First I want to make a disclaimer: My proposed hypothesis has plenty of holes and oversimplifications. So it needs work.

Now as to your comment, I don't see a successful awakening repeating. Each subsequent awakening is a correction of the prior one. I am proposing that an unsuccessful Radical Awakening that does not become the Establishment (as was the case in Medieval times) may try to reappear the next time around (according to the opposite paradigm). I don't see the next Radical Awakening bearing much resemblance to today's "right wing." (Unless you think Putin is "right wing," just because he is advancement.)

What, then, does the advancement pseudo-Boomer agenda look like in the next Awakening? The hippies on steroids? How does it differ from the 1960s movement?
I think there will be plenty of self-gratification without much pretense of compassion.







Post#790 at 09-09-2014 11:17 AM by Remy Renault [at joined May 2014 #posts 257]
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Quote Originally Posted by JDW View Post


I think there will be plenty of self-gratification without much pretense of compassion.
What's wrong with compassion?

I think the issue though is that Gen X has a tendency to not be compassionate enough at times.







Post#791 at 09-11-2014 06:12 PM by Einzige [at Illinois joined Apr 2013 #posts 824]
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I still don't really follow you.

As I understand your basic theory, the last successfully implemented Awakening was the Missionary Advancement Awakening. Now, the Boomer Atonement Awakening could be successfully implemented, depending on the outcome of this Crisis, but it's not a sure thing. But as of now, we're still operating, paradigmatically, on the old Missionary Awakening basis.

You hold, if I interpret you correctly, that it's possible for Awakenings to fail to be implemented, that Prophet generations can fail. But you haven't really elaborated on what this looks like.

I'm trying to get you to elaborate on this, or to illustrate what it could look like if possible. Does the Missionary Advancement paradigm now in place become a Missionary Atonement paradigm in the event of a failed Boomer Atonement Awakening implementing itself? (Perhaps converting from blue/liberal interventionism to red/conservative noninterventionism in the process, but still operating on a capitalistic, materialist and technocratic basis)? What, then, does a Boomer Advancement Awakening look like in the next Second Turning, then?

I mean, I can kind of see it looking like this: red-libertarianism ruling into the First Turning, perhaps on the back of a two-term President Paul, succeeded perhaps by a Justin Amash. Then you get your way for a little while, JDW.

But -- what happens after? What reacts against the now-established Missionary Atonement Awakening? I'm trying and failing to see what a Boomer Advancement paradigm looks like. You of course associate it with everything evil and selfish under the sun; I see it with a bit more nuance. But can you possibly imagine a "Boomer Advancement" paradigm? What does it look like? What does it push for? What are its principles?

The original Boomer Awakening, which we can perhaps call Boomer I, was very passive. It was almost an introverted Awakening with few solid policy prescriptions beyond "leave Vietnam" and "stop being conformist" - a far cry from the very policy-oriented, and again very technocratic, Missionaries, which is the only other frame of reference we have. I'm having a hard time picturing an active, assertive Boomer II-type Advancement Awakening.

So I'm asking you to war game that for me. Write out a scenario that sees (A) Boomer I defeated in this Crisis, and (B) a Boomer II Awakening in the next Second Turning.

(I myself don't buy it; I'm sold on the next Awakening being a Gothic Awakening, focused on death rather than sex. But, I guess, I'm convincable.)
Things are gonna slide
Slide in all directions
Won't be nothin'
Nothin' you can measure anymore

The blizzard of the world has crossed the threshold
And it has overturned the order of the soul
When they said REPENT (repent), I wonder what they meant

I've seen the future, brother:
It is murder

- Leonard Cohen, "The Future" (1992)







Post#792 at 09-11-2014 08:30 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by JDW View Post
First I want to make a disclaimer: My proposed hypothesis has plenty of holes and oversimplifications. So it needs work.

Now as to your comment, I don't see a successful awakening repeating. Each subsequent awakening is a correction of the prior one. I am proposing that an unsuccessful Radical Awakening that does not become the Establishment (as was the case in Medieval times) may try to reappear the next time around (according to the opposite paradigm). I don't see the next Radical Awakening bearing much resemblance to today's "right wing." (Unless you think Putin is "right wing," just because he is advancement.)
I agree. I'm right now watching Nicholas Nickleby and the sense I get from Dickens is he's pushing Child mistreatment and Child workers in a very Atonement fashion--and yet all it does is serve as "tear fodder"--Victorians loved to cry over sad and pitiful little melodramas, while actual conditions continue. Then comes the British Missionaries (Ecumenicals) who actually get the reforms done in an advancement tone.

That's at least what I'm getting the evolution of that issue. And I'm starting to wonder if that's not how "baggage" from one iteration of a Turning gets handled later down the line. After all, the Civil Rights movement is now more popularly being called the "Second Reconstruction" as it dealt with some issues (though not all of them) left over from the first 1T. In which case perhaps it's not just a 2T or a 4T issue, but perhaps if one issue crops up in one type of turning, perhaps it takes until that turning comes round again for it to have a "second chance" at being resolved if it doesn't get done (after all there's only so much we humans can do in a given time--we're not superhumans).

Just some random speculations from watching Dickens while reading this thread...
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#793 at 09-12-2014 06:48 AM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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I don't have time for a long post right now, but elements of the Radical Awakening, the Counter-Awakening and the Reaction can all make it into the Establishment. Keep in mind that suffrage, prohibition, progressivism, American greatness, labor reform and "modernism" were all components of the Missionary Radical Awakening, while Bible-Belt Fundamentalism was part of the Counter-Awakening. Obviously, one of those did not survive. In fact it was the Reaction to prohibition that became established among GIs.
Last edited by JDW; 09-12-2014 at 06:55 AM.







Post#794 at 09-12-2014 06:29 PM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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Some more thoughts about the Missionary Awakening: Pentecostalism, even though it came late, was part of the Radical Awakening - having elements of feminism and manifest destiny, besides just being radical in nature. Also, I'm going to postulate that "hubris" was not just a GI characteristic, but a passed down trait of the Missionaries themselves.







Post#795 at 09-15-2014 09:36 PM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
I still don't really follow you.

As I understand your basic theory, the last successfully implemented Awakening was the Missionary Advancement Awakening. Now, the Boomer Atonement Awakening could be successfully implemented, depending on the outcome of this Crisis, but it's not a sure thing. But as of now, we're still operating, paradigmatically, on the old Missionary Awakening basis.

You hold, if I interpret you correctly, that it's possible for Awakenings to fail to be implemented, that Prophet generations can fail. But you haven't really elaborated on what this looks like.
I think the Boomer Awakening is proving successful, right now. Somehow there is an expectation that people will automatically work together in a "Crisis" to solve it, but that was never a real goal of the Consciousness Revolution. A weakened America, self-righteously berated for the sins of previous saecula, fits perfectly with the '60s and '70s mindset.







Post#796 at 09-16-2014 07:20 PM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
I'm trying to get you to elaborate on this, or to illustrate what it could look like if possible. Does the Missionary Advancement paradigm now in place become a Missionary Atonement paradigm in the event of a failed Boomer Atonement Awakening implementing itself? (Perhaps converting from blue/liberal interventionism to red/conservative noninterventionism in the process, but still operating on a capitalistic, materialist and technocratic basis)? What, then, does a Boomer Advancement Awakening look like in the next Second Turning, then?
According to my hypothesis, we have not been under the Missionary paradigm since the Awakening ended. It was replaced by the Atonement paradigm, via the Radical Awakening (antiwar movement), the Counter-Awakening (the religious right) and even the Reaction (nihilism, which has pretty much given up its anti-awakening position and sought its own atonement). A combination of these will be the new establishment.

Since a majority of Artists and Prophets will be minorities, I would expect the coming Advancement Awakening to include an element that seeks to eradicate "white privilege," possibly pushing for a 100% estate tax. (Only the politicians and their close associates will be exempt.) I also see there being elements of a white backlash. (Interestingly, the Klan was part of the Missionary Radical Awakening and may have been the only significant element of that to take a negative view the Civil War saeculum.)







Post#797 at 09-16-2014 07:37 PM by decadeologist101 [at joined Jun 2014 #posts 899]
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.......................................
Last edited by decadeologist101; 09-16-2014 at 08:27 PM.







Post#798 at 09-16-2014 08:09 PM by Einzige [at Illinois joined Apr 2013 #posts 824]
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Quote Originally Posted by JDW View Post
I think the Boomer Awakening is proving successful, right now. Somehow there is an expectation that people will automatically work together in a "Crisis" to solve it, but that was never a real goal of the Consciousness Revolution. A weakened America, self-righteously berated for the sins of previous saecula, fits perfectly with the '60s and '70s mindset.
Ah, I see. How could I have been so blind?

Your theory doesn't require trivialities such as a 'mechanism' or 'independent verifiability'; it is beyond such petty concerns. It has pure evil, in the form of historical actors without agency enough to perform in any other way, pure villainy embodied in the form of the Boomer Left. And naturally, pure doctrinaire Movement Conservatism is the solution: the issues and their answers haven't changed one jot or tittle since Goldwater went down in 1964.

Naturally, I'm simply an indoctrinated, robotic Millennial - even if my political orientation is more Benito Mussolini than Barack Obama - and so am simply incapable of seeing the suppressed wisdom of market neoliberalism (which has not, in fact, held the White House for at least five of the past nine terms). An Evolan neofascist like myself has simply been brainwashed by my Boomer antecedents; what I really need to do to assert my individuality is vote Republican.

Thanks for the enlightenment.
Things are gonna slide
Slide in all directions
Won't be nothin'
Nothin' you can measure anymore

The blizzard of the world has crossed the threshold
And it has overturned the order of the soul
When they said REPENT (repent), I wonder what they meant

I've seen the future, brother:
It is murder

- Leonard Cohen, "The Future" (1992)







Post#799 at 09-16-2014 08:11 PM by Einzige [at Illinois joined Apr 2013 #posts 824]
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Quote Originally Posted by JDW View Post
Since a majority of Artists and Prophets will be minorities, I would expect the coming Advancement Awakening to include an element that seeks to eradicate "white privilege," possibly pushing for a 100% estate tax. (Only the politicians and their close associates will be exempt.)
Of course. All of world history has conspired to turn you into Ahauserus, the perpetual victim, repressed by virtue of being in the majority.

... in all seriousness, this is why Movement Conservatism/Reaganism must be absolutely eradicated. There is room on the Right for a creative, vitalistic political force: conservative Republicanism, on the other hand, is atavistic and rooted in a complex of ressentiment and self-martyrdom.
Things are gonna slide
Slide in all directions
Won't be nothin'
Nothin' you can measure anymore

The blizzard of the world has crossed the threshold
And it has overturned the order of the soul
When they said REPENT (repent), I wonder what they meant

I've seen the future, brother:
It is murder

- Leonard Cohen, "The Future" (1992)







Post#800 at 09-16-2014 09:42 PM by JDW [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 753]
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09-16-2014, 09:42 PM #800
Join Date
Jul 2001
Posts
753

Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
Of course. All of world history has conspired to turn you into Ahauserus, the perpetual victim, repressed by virtue of being in the majority.

... in all seriousness, this is why Movement Conservatism/Reaganism must be absolutely eradicated. There is room on the Right for a creative, vitalistic political force: conservative Republicanism, on the other hand, is atavistic and rooted in a complex of ressentiment and self-martyrdom.
Well, you did ask me what a post-Boomer Advancement Awakening would look like, and that does require a certain amount of speculation. My thoughts are based on an observation that Millennials have been exposed to the idea that America has primarily benefited one race, and I would expect them to imprint that upon the next Prophet generation, as well. Being Advancement, they are likely to try to create a system to correct this inequality, and having the government take everything and then redistribute it is one such approach. I think this is one of many realistic possibilities.
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