Originally Posted by Anthony '58 II

Two points are in order here:

First, in more than 99% of all abortions, the life or even the health of the mother is not at issue: The would-be mother, for one reason or another, simply doesn't want the child. And anyone who believes otherwise no doubt also thinks those "stimulus" e-mails were actually sent by President Obama.

And second, speaking of President Obama, I was looking at this from what should be his politically strategic perspective: He may need help from "people of faith" on the economy - remember that oppressing the poor and defrauding workers of their wages are two of the four sins that cry out to heaven for vengence, according to Roman Catholic doctrine - so I'm questioning how much sense it makes for him to wave red rags - or more aptly, blue rags in this case - in religious people's faces.

I think you're pulling that 99% figure out of your rear end, Anthony -- and secondly, you seem to be implying that religious people aren't pro-choice. Many of us are.

Originally Posted by angeli

Wait? Are Christians being oppressed again? Did I miss it? Were there lions?

(gets popcorn, sits in gallery of amphitheater, waits for Great Fire of Rome).

Pass the popcorn ... please!

Originally Posted by The Rani

I guess I don't understand how an elective abortion could be "in the cards" if a C-section wasn't.

At any rate, things are a lot different now than in 1976.

I never said 'elective'. We were talking emergency procedure. Note, refusal is also part of the program the fierce anti-abortionist professionals claim as their right not to do things that offend God.

Better to let mom die and save the child. If its a girl, she can have the same rights later on. Fair and balanced.

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

I think the oppressed Atheist needs to grow a stiffer spine and a thicker layer of skin.

You might think about taking your own advice. Those of us in that very distinct minority already have our hides in place.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Originally Posted by Odin

No, we are not getting burned at the stakes, but we do get shunned and harassed because we are seen as agents of Satan.

No we don't. Are you sure you aren't getting shunned and harassed for some other reason?

You live in one of the most socially liberal places in the US. I would say that you advice is a bit skewed. I live in the Bible Belt. Try being what you are here.

BTW, in this part of the country, Christians whine constantly that they are denied their rights because, among other indignities, they can't force others to pray to Jesus at government sponsored events.

Originally Posted by Anthony '58 II

Two points are in order here:

First, in more than 99% of all abortions, the life or even the health of the mother is not at issue: The would-be mother, for one reason or another, simply doesn't want the child. And anyone who believes otherwise no doubt also thinks those "stimulus" e-mails were actually sent by President Obama.

And second, speaking of President Obama, I was looking at this from what should be his politically strategic perspective: He may need help from "people of faith" on the economy - remember that oppressing the poor and defrauding workers of their wages are two of the four sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance, according to Roman Catholic doctrine - so I'm questioning how much sense it makes for him to wave red rags - or more aptly, blue rags in this case - in religious people's faces.

The rules offenders have been the absolutists. I merely pointed to the most outrageous issue. We can argue about the others, but address the critical ones first.
If your policy fails that test, get a better policy. That's what Obama is dong. Personally, I will not kowtow to a bunch of virgin priests when it comes to issues about which they know absolutely nothing. I'm not Obama.

Originally Posted by The Rani

That makes absolutely no sense. How can you save a child in such a situation if the mom dies, without a C-section?

I'm talking policy here. I don't know enough about the medical issues to say what could have been done. But if the doctor was a Pro-Life extremist, he may have focused on saving the child and killed both mother and child. My focus is the mother first and foremost.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

I dunno. The only obligation a physician has is, "First, do no harm". That itself can be up to some interpretation, I suppose; but you can hardly say that refusing to perform specific procedures is refusing to do their job (after all, any reasonable physician will have at least some things he simply will not do, no matter how much a patient may want him to).

Isn't the issue more with birth control? Imagine that you had sex and either the condom broke or it was unplanned (the dire example is rape), so you go to the pharmacist that you've used for 20 years and they say "no, they don't do Plan B because they consider it to be a form of abortion". Most of can go to another pharmacist, but it gets trickier in remote areas.

With Plan B, time is of the essense -- you have about 48 hours to prevent the egg from implanting.

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

KIA
while you are letting your rawer emotions run free looking for a brawl and defending the integrity of the White Race, you may want to check this out


from Wikipedia

when you made this reply to Odin



you just may have been referring to a supernatural being of evil known as SATAN.

We all make typos - me included - but it read rather funny.

Wow, I didn't realize you were such a big fan of Satan. I figure only a big fan take the time to not only point it out but would capitalize it as well. Man, you make seperating out the Satan lovers from non-Satan lovers within the blue crowd so easy.

[quote=The Rani;262798]

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

I'm talking policy here. I don't know enough about the medical issues to say what could have been done.

So now the libertarian prefers an oligarchy as long as she gets to be one of the oligarchs.

Interesting.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

... Imagine that you had sex and either the condom broke or it was unplanned (the dire example is rape), so you go to the pharmacist that you've used for 20 years and they say "no, they don't do Plan B because they consider it to be a form of abortion". Most of can go to another pharmacist, but it gets trickier in remote areas...

I can imagine something far worse, which is going to a drugstore in a rural area to fill an antibiotic prescription for your child, only to find out that the local pharmacist has closed up shop rather than be forced into working for Satin by the federal government.

That's always the line, isn't it. Do it my way or I'll take my ball and go home. It's the same argument about taxes, I might add. I'm in a power position, so I get my way. Baloney.

As far as the Pharmacy closing shop, personally, I don't see it happening.

KIA
I do feel sorry for you.

Someone totally absorbed by all that negativity.

Its sad.

How do my fellow Crown of Creation T4Ters feel (& what do the lower ordered T4Ters think) about the Heroic Actions of the Stakhanovites at AIG and their bonus payments for having displayed a marked efficiency and a determined initiative in the Advance of Risk Communism?


Is this not the Way Forward >>>>>------->?

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

How do my fellow Crown of Creation T4Ters feel (& what do the lower ordered T4Ters think) about the Heroic Actions of the Stakhanovites at AIG and their bonus payments for having displayed a marked efficiency and a determined initiative in the Advance of Risk Communism?


Is this not the Way Forward >>>>>------->?

A la guillotine!

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

KIA
I do feel sorry for you.

Someone totally absorbed by all that negativity.

Its sad.

Well, I must say, I sorta feel sorry for a dude who gets his rocks off over such a small and insigificant victory. Now, as a token of my goodwill, I offer you three more blurbs of literal pettiness fruits to nurture and sustain your social addiction, blue ego and current state of blue happiness. Satin, Satin, Satin! Need three more? Satin, Satin, Satin! Hahaha!

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

How do my fellow Crown of Creation T4Ters feel (& what do the lower ordered T4Ters think) about the Heroic Actions of the Stakhanovites at AIG and their bonus payments for having displayed a marked efficiency and a determined initiative in the Advance of Risk Communism?


Is this not the Way Forward >>>>>------->?

I think compassionate conservatism (the preservation of idiots) and bleeding heart liberalism (the expansion of idiots) represent the bulk of our problems.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

That's always the line, isn't it. Do it my way or I'll take my ball and go home. It's the same argument about taxes, I might add. I'm in a power position, so I get my way. Baloney.

As far as the Pharmacy closing shop, personally, I don't see it happening.

No, that's just what freedom is all about.

KIA
I do feel sorry for you.

Someone totally absorbed by all that negativity.

Its sad.

and pathetic.

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

KIA
I do feel sorry for you.

Someone totally absorbed by all that negativity.

Its sad.

and pathetic.

Oh, I see you need more blue insulin. OK, here it comes. Satin, Satin, Satin! I'm feeling generous today. So, here's another dose just for shits and giggles. Satin, Satin, Satin! Hahaha!

KIA --

Do you repudiate the racist connotations of "white power"?

You can clear yourself of any Nazi allegations. It's easy!

The eloquent Michelle:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/09/60minutes/main2456335_page3.shtml


"I don't lose sleep over it because the realities are that, you know, as a black man, you know, Barack can get shot going to the gas station, you know. So, you know, you can't make decisions based on fear and the possibility of what might happen. We just weren't raised that way."

-I know, you know?

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

The eloquent Michelle:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/09/60minutes/main2456335_page3.shtml


"I don't lose sleep over it because the realities are that, you know, as a black man, you know, Barack can get shot going to the gas station, you know. So, you know, you can't make decisions based on fear and the possibility of what might happen. We just weren't raised that way."

-I know, you know?

But if he remembers to keep his tires properly inflated at all times, he can make fewer trips to the gas station, thereby reducing his chances of getting shot, no?

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

The eloquent Michelle:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/09/60minutes/main2456335_page3.shtml


"I don't lose sleep over it because the realities are that, you know, as a black man, you know, Barack can get shot going to the gas station, you know. So, you know, you can't make decisions based on fear and the possibility of what might happen. We just weren't raised that way."

-I know, you know?

Which is why I don't especially care for our new First Lady, and never have, even though I voted for her husband. She appears to be of a certain race-obsessed ilk, of the sort that have always loathed people like my family, who dared to think of ourselves just as American as everyone else... even if some of the "everyones" did not.

My sister's husband comes from a similar background. I tolerate him-- yes, the word really is tolerate, rather than accept-- because for all his faults, he is hard-working, tenacious, and I don't have to worry about my sister not being taken care of. So I have a certain amount of grudging respect for him... but we'll never, ever be friends.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Which is why I don't especially care for our new First Lady, and never have, even though I voted for her husband. She appears to be of a certain race-obsessed ilk, of the sort that have always loathed people like my family, who dared to think of ourselves just as American as everyone else... even if some of the "everyones" did not.

My sister's husband comes from a similar background. I tolerate him-- yes, the word really is tolerate, rather than accept-- because for all his faults, he is hard-working, tenacious, and I don't have to worry about my sister not being taken care of. So I have a certain amount of grudging respect for him... but we'll never, ever be friends.

This sounds to me like a certain sort of veteran's hypervigilance - the sort that rolls and dives under the nearest car when a balloon pops.

Originally Posted by Anthony '58 II

But if he remembers to keep his tires properly inflated at all times, he can make fewer trips to the gas station, thereby reducing his chances of getting shot, no?

Barack doesn't come across as the type who would be hanging around or getting gas in the hood. Shit, I take as big of risk, if not a bigger risk of getting killed driving to work or at times just working.