Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

This sounds to me like a certain sort of veteran's hypervigilance - the sort that rolls and dives under the nearest car when a balloon pops.

Exactly. As I said last year, I disagree with Roadbldr about Michelle, simply because I just don't think that she could have attracted a guy of the background, upbringing, and cosmopolitan experiences of Barack Obama if she was some sort of race hustler or had seething resentment towards people who weren't African American. I also don't think that Obama would be very comfortable with the Robinson family as a whole if they were constantly harping on racial grievances over holiday dinners. It just doesn't make sense.

What I think is that the media has helped shape negative perceptions of Michelle because women like her are invisible, with the exception of sitcom characters like Clair Huxtable of The Cosby Show. I've never met Michelle, but I have met Howard Dean. The media has successfully marginalized a man who is absolutely nothing like his media caricature. He's a very thoughtful, rational guy who's not actually that far to the left (look at his record as VT gov).

Besides, that quote was from nearly two years ago. Pundits have marveled at the growth in the president from February 2007 to inauguration, at the way he bounced back from mistakes. But the First Lady also grew because of the campaign, through her travels, and those who don't give her credit for that growth have other issues that they're projecting onto her.

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

Exactly. As I said last year, I disagree with Roadbldr about Michelle, simply because I just don't think that she could have attracted a guy of the background, upbringing, and cosmopolitan experiences of Barack Obama if she was some sort of race hustler or had seething resentment towards people who weren't African American. I also don't think that Obama would be very comfortable with the Robinson family as a whole if they were constantly harping on racial grievances over holiday dinners. It just doesn't make sense.

What I think is that the media has helped shape negative perceptions of Michelle because women like her are invisible, with the exception of sitcom characters like Clair Huxtable of The Cosby Show. I've never met Michelle, but I have met Howard Dean. The media has successfully marginalized a man who is absolutely nothing like his media caricature. He's a very thoughtful, rational guy who's not actually that far to the left (look at his record as VT gov).

Besides, that quote was from nearly two years ago. Pundits have marveled at the growth in the president from February 2007 to inauguration, at the way he bounced back from mistakes. But the First Lady also grew because of the campaign, through her travels, and those who don't give her credit for that growth have other issues that they're projecting onto her.

What she said, plus I think this is still leftover resentment of Hillary Clinton; she was another First Lady who wouldn't take an intellectual back seat to anyone, not even her husband the President.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

What she said, plus I think this is still leftover resentment of Hillary Clinton; she was another First Lady who wouldn't take an intellectual back seat to anyone, not even her husband the President.

Here's a thumbnail of Michelle -

A 1985 cum laude graduate of Princeton, a 1988 graduate of Harvard Law School, a former associate dean at the University of Chicago and most recently a vice president at the University of Chicago Hospitals. She sat on six boards, including the prestigious Chicago Council on Global Affairs.

There's no question that she is capable of doing much as 1st Lady. The problem is getting slammed for whatever she does due to the remaining racist and sexist sewage sludge that still exists in our society.

Originally Posted by playwrite

There's no question that she is capable of doing much as 1st Lady. The problem is getting slammed for whatever she does due to the remaining racist and sexist sewage sludge that still exists in our society.

It's still distressing to read the crap coming from other women. After all this time, we still can't deal with our own successes.

Michelle does it all -- wife, mom, professional, volunteer -- and there's always someone carping at her for no good reason. I'm personally sick of it.

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

As I said last year, I disagree with Roadbldr about Michelle, simply because I just don't think that she could have attracted a guy of the background, upbringing, and cosmopolitan experiences of Barack Obama if she was some sort of race hustler or had seething resentment towards people who weren't African American...

-Hmmm...

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright managed to attract a "guy of the background, upbringing, and cosmopolitan experiences of Barack Obama" despite the fact that JW was a race hustler and had a seething resentment towards people who weren't African American.

...until, of course, the Rev. dissed' him in public.

Originally Posted by playwrite

...There's no question that she is capable of doing much as 1st Lady...

-Yeah, you know, she's like, capable, you know?

BTW, did President Obama ever release his SAT score to the masses, so that we can all bask in his gloriousness?

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

This sounds to me like a certain sort of veteran's hypervigilance - the sort that rolls and dives under the nearest car when a balloon pops.

Perhaps so. Seeing one's hometown destroyed before your very eyes will do that to you.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Eh, I don't think so. Sure women can't be prez or vice-prez, but they can certainly be first lady. And for any color of the rainbow, she exudes insecurity and phoniness. Like I said, a great candidate for The Bachelorette!

It still begs the question, why on earth would Obama have anything to do with a woman like that? And if the FLOTUS is racist, insecure, and phony, then what does that say about the POTUS?

How on earth did she ever get through her first meeting with Obama's family? And speaking of which, how did Obama, raised by two of the strongest women I've ever heard of a politician being raised by (not even saving the presence of Abigail Adams) end up with an insecure phony?

You mean to tell me that the President is normal and you'd like to have a beer with him... the First Daughters are normal and adorable... but Michelle's an Awakening throwback, seething with resentment?

Really?

For my money, I like President Obama, but I love the First Lady. The more I learn about her, the more I like her. And her rise in approval from last year proves that I'm not alone.

It's just like with Secretary Clinton. People project their issues onto certain prominent women, while others get a pass. I am hoping that the Millies help us get over it this antiquated notion of what women are supposed to be, do, think, and feel.

...I think her to be a woman of little importance; I just hope she will still be presentable after her husband throws her under the bus.

Surely she has a sense of victimhood and puts it on display to no great advantage. But, she has yet to have bodies show up in parks along the Potomac as did the S.W.O.T.E.; nor does she bar Jews from her house as did Bess Truman, nor keep sharecroppers in shacks as did Ladybird Johnson.

For a Democrat Party POTUS' etux she's probably no worse than the mattress saleswoman who lived with "That Man".

Did not William Shakespeare write a play bout things like this..... Much Ado About Nothing I belive it was called.

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

For my money, I like President Obama, but I love the First Lady. The more I learn about her, the more I like her. And her rise in approval from last year proves that I'm not alone.

She certainly seems to be charming folks on this European trip -- even the Queen.

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

Did not William Shakespeare write a play bout things like this..... Much Ado About Nothing I belive it was called.

Truly, you are the face of America that makes those of us who have to live among the impression you leave twist in pain.

For the record:

She's the freaking Queen! Who cares, 'of what?'; or 'we don't have one'??? As guests in a place where they do have one, one is expected to behave in a certain way. I'm sure it would make a serious impression on you were a person to visit your home and hawk and spit and openly root his nose while he was talking with you. And not a good impression, either. But there are people for whom suppressing the urge to such behavior would be as nonintuitive as would be for you (apparently) remembering not to touch the Queen.
It's called 'being polite', or 'being a good guest', or simply 'not being an asshole'. When someone screws up and breaks the rules relating to that, you don't defend them and call it nothing.

Even more do about nothing.

Originally Posted by The Rani

I wonder if Her Majesty was actually "charmed," or just trying to make the best of an awkward moment by not making a big deal out of it.

The British are rather well known (perhaps only stereotypically, but still...) for being able to control the urge to freak out in company. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a British matriarch (the British matriarch, no less) did just that when a wholly uncivilized context was forced upon her.

Then again, maybe all these years she's just really, really wanted to get a hug from a pop star, and been too shy to say so.

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

Even more do about nothing.

The fact that you call it nothing demonstrates what is wrong with you.

Go ahead, say it again.

and more ado about nothing.

happy?????

oh wait --- thousands of people in the steets protesting the very event you are so damn concerned about .... and wait... on CNN ... thirty.... forty .... mybe seventy different cities all over America ... people pouring out of their homes and taking to the streets demanding the impeachment of President Obama for these high crimes ....

well that certainly proves me wrong.

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

and more ado about nothing.

happy?????

oh wait --- thousands of people in the steets protesting the very event you are so damn concerned about .... and wait... on CNN ... thirty.... forty .... mybe seventy different cities all over America ... people pouring out of their homes and taking to the streets demanding the impeachment of President Obama for these high crimes ....

well that certainly proves me wrong.

-Of course, if it had been the Bushes, that did that...

F the crown

Originally Posted by The Rani

Eh, I don't think so. Sure women can't be prez or vice-prez

Why do you say this? Not only do I disagree, but it doesn't seem even remotely like something you'd say.

Originally Posted by The Rani

My bad ... should have read ...

"Sexism dictates that women can't be prez or vice-prez, but they can certainly be first lady."

Ah. Je comprends maintenent.

Guess I won't ask who you are and what you've done with the Rani.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Truly, you are the face of America that makes those of us who have to live among the impression you leave twist in pain.

For the record:

She's the freaking Queen! Who cares, 'of what?'; or 'we don't have one'??? As guests in a place where they do have one, one is expected to behave in a certain way. I'm sure it would make a serious impression on you were a person to visit your home and hawk and spit and openly root his nose while he was talking with you. And not a good impression, either. But there are people for whom suppressing the urge to such behavior would be as nonintuitive as would be for you (apparently) remembering not to touch the Queen.
It's called 'being polite', or 'being a good guest', or simply 'not being an asshole'. When someone screws up and breaks the rules relating to that, you don't defend them and call it nothing.

Justin:

Your feud with HM aside -- he's right: this is a non-controversy that certain individuals are trying to exploit because they just don't like Mrs. Obama. *Those* folks are being the assholes here.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

The British are rather well known (perhaps only stereotypically, but still...) for being able to control the urge to freak out in company. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a British matriarch (the British matriarch, no less) did just that when a wholly uncivilized context was forced upon her.

Then again, maybe all these years she's just really, really wanted to get a hug from a pop star, and been too shy to say so.

That's really beneath you, Justin.

Originally Posted by independent

F the crown

By all means. But you're an asshole if you do it in front of people who respect her and what she is.

I mean, the point isn't about what people in the USA think about the Queen of another country, anyway. The point is the way said people behave as guests. The only excuse for boorish behavior is ignorance, but for any person over the age of twelve, even that is only a one-time excuse. And a politician doesn't even get that one.

Originally Posted by The Rani

(BTW, if you really think that sarcasm and/or zingers are "beneath" Justin, then you haven't been paying attention.)

Hey!

oh yeah, right.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

I mean, the point isn't about what people in the USA think about the Queen of another country, anyway. The point is the way said people behave as guests. The only excuse for boorish behavior is ignorance, but for any person over the age of twelve, even that is only a one-time excuse. And a politician doesn't even get that one.

I hope Michelle & Obama scared the queen on multiple levels

Seriously, if there was ever a symbol of arbitrary authority & opulence colored by a history of violence & imperialism, its that crown on her head. Why isn't he spending time with the Prime Minster & Cabinet officials, and why are anti-authoritarians so quick to defend the delicate sensibilities of one of the world's most undeservingly spoiled people?

Oh, that's rich: First, rattling Pakistan's cage, and doing so without any hint of warming up to India. Now, rattling North Korea's cage - which, for all intents and purposes is rattling China's cage (and antagonizing both India and China with all this ecomaniacal nonsense).

Obama has a foreign policy all right; it's just not one that can stand the light of day.