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Thread: The Spiral of Violence - Page 20







Post#476 at 03-21-2010 12:34 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
Eh, this just shows how much disrespect there is for the government.
I am only surprised that the bigoted crowd didn't also call Barney Frank a k--e. Hint: Barney Frank is Jewish.

It is disrespect for two large segments of the population -- the American people. Nobody is any less American for having African ancestry; indeed, every slave earned American citizenship long before he got it. Nobody is any less American for being gay.

Do you want your children to say words like n----r and f----t? The African ancestry of President Obama and the open homosexuality of Barney Frank have no relevance to the issue of health care reform.

The tea bag crowds are heavily Boom, and Boomers are not well known for politeness in political demonstrations. So it was when the Boomers were involved in left-wing protests in the 1960s and so it is in 2010. Boomers tend to go over the top in politics, whether they go Left or Right.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#477 at 03-21-2010 02:42 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
The tea bag crowds are heavily Boom, and Boomers are not well known for politeness in political demonstrations. So it was when the Boomers were involved in left-wing protests in the 1960s and so it is in 2010. Boomers tend to go over the top in politics, whether they go Left or Right.
Indeed.

I remember the Boomer violence on the left-- the race riots, the Weather Underground bombings, Manson, the Patty Hearst kidnapping and robberies-- from the Awakening. It would appear we are now poised for similar attacks from the right... this time aided and abetted by Xers, who've always accepted the Boomer agendae as "normal".
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#478 at 03-21-2010 03:19 PM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Indeed.

I remember the Boomer violence on the left-- the race riots, the Weather Underground bombings, Manson, the Patty Hearst kidnapping and robberies-- from the Awakening. It would appear we are now poised for similar attacks from the right... this time aided and abetted by Xers, who've always accepted the Boomer agendae as "normal".
Alot of Xer's are South Park, equal-opportunity haters. So don't take offense since everyone is on the radar.







Post#479 at 03-21-2010 04:07 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Just read on DU that some Teabaggers tried to force their way into the House chamber!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#480 at 03-21-2010 06:11 PM by 85turtle [at joined Dec 2009 #posts 362]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Just read on DU that some Teabaggers tried to force their way into the House chamber!
Yet Republicans are pandering these crazies.
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Post#481 at 03-21-2010 06:26 PM by 85turtle [at joined Dec 2009 #posts 362]
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MBTI: INTJ (rational-mastermind)

"Don't Freak Out" - Yvonne Strahovski (Gen Y), Sarah Walker on Chuck

Sexy Bitch - Sarah Walker fan video (not mine)

Chuck vs. the Nacho Sampler (3x06)
Clip from the 1st scene
Clip from the 2nd scene

Chuck vs. the Honeymooners (3x14)
Southern Accents

"I hope to inspire everyone and ask, where is our march? Where are our petitions? Where the fuck are our minds? I know there are a few petitions out there that I have signed, but it's not enough." -Sasha Grey







Post#482 at 03-21-2010 06:42 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Indeed.

I remember the Boomer violence on the left-- the race riots, the Weather Underground bombings, Manson, the Patty Hearst kidnapping and robberies-- from the Awakening. It would appear we are now poised for similar attacks from the right... this time aided and abetted by Xers, who've always accepted the Boomer agendae as "normal".
Manson is a Silent--like Richard Speck (killed 8 student nurses), Carl Starkweather (killed about 8 people in Kansas), Hickok and Perry (In Cold Blood), and Lee Harvey Oswald. When one of those guys let loose, they really let loose.







Post#483 at 03-21-2010 08:13 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
Eh, this just shows how much disrespect there is for the government.
I found this to be an interesting statement. Why should citizens have respect for our government?







Post#484 at 03-21-2010 09:29 PM by K-I-A 67 [at joined Jan 2005 #posts 3,010]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
I found this to be an interesting statement. Why should citizens have respect for our government?
Do you want or prefer anarchy instead? What's government without the respect of it's citizens? It's simply becomes a collection of n-----s, f-----ts or whatever disrespectful term gets added on or directly applied to it. BTW, the government who does not show, acknowlege or extends respect for its citizens, deserve whatever disrespectful comments and terms gets heaped on it or directed at it.
Last edited by K-I-A 67; 03-21-2010 at 10:22 PM.







Post#485 at 03-21-2010 10:13 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
Do you want anarchy instead?
The Greeks (who came up with the idea) defined anarchy as:

"No rulership or enforced authority. A social state in which there is no governing person or group of people, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."

So to answer your question, sure.

Your response isn't an answer however. Do you consider the opposite of "respect for government" to be anarchy? Is this result limited to a specific political party protesting against something they do not believe in? If, for instance, liberals had angrily (or even violently) protested the Patriot Act would that be the same? Should you have to respect government you don't believe in?







Post#486 at 03-21-2010 10:48 PM by SaintStephen74 [at Eugene, OR joined Dec 2007 #posts 125]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
Do you want or prefer anarchy instead?
lol! -nice try CIA. The Tea bagger movement was quickly co-opted and is being used as a tool to a) syphon off boomer anger and more importantly b) justify a counter insurgency. If they can get a coherant program together for a 60 minute entertainment show, what do you think can be done with the same talking points on every channel. Xers are WAY more keen to this & they have a future and children to think about. In light of all that, I hardly think that the Xers are going along with any boomer agenda. To the contrary, Xers are forcing boomers to come up with a coherent plan for our collective future. If you are wondering when Xers are going to get serious as was the name of a thread at one point, here's the answer: When the Grey Champion(s) give us a damn good reason, til then Xers are only going to pull pranks (which are actually hints about which direction for the GC's to go) We know what is called for & we are simply waiting for enough Boomers to mature into GC's. We'd tell you outright, but you've dismissed us so many times in the past that we know you have to figure it out on your own as if you discovered it. Good luck & you wi9ll lose your illusions about the world you thought you were living in. The sooner the better.
The Power of the imagination is being realized. Being realized is the power of the imagination.







Post#487 at 03-21-2010 11:15 PM by K-I-A 67 [at joined Jan 2005 #posts 3,010]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
The Greeks (who came up with the idea) defined anarchy as:

"No rulership or enforced authority. A social state in which there is no governing person or group of people, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."

So to answer your question, sure.

Your response isn't an answer however. Do you consider the opposite of "respect for government" to be anarchy? Is this result limited to a specific political party protesting against something they do not believe in? If, for instance, liberals had angrily (or even violently) protested the Patriot Act would that be the same? Should you have to respect government you don't believe in?
We don't live in the world of saint, a philosophical dream or the kingdom of heaven. We live in the world with murderers, corruption, gangs and violence. A world that is still similiar to the world of the Greeks. The opposite of respect for the government is disrespect of the government. Respect is a property of the individual. Respect is not a social comodity or entitlement. So, the answer is no, you don't have to respect government you do not believe in.







Post#488 at 03-22-2010 01:04 AM by SaintStephen74 [at Eugene, OR joined Dec 2007 #posts 125]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
We don't live in the world of saint, a philosophical dream or the kingdom of heaven. We live in the world with murderers, corruption, gangs and violence. A world that is still similiar to the world of the Greeks. The opposite of respect for the government is disrespect of the government. Respect is a property of the individual. Respect is not a social comodity or entitlement. So, the answer is no, you don't have to respect government you do not believe in.


So, now the opposite of respect for the govt is disrespect? What happened to anarchy? It wouldn't be hard to talk you out of your newly found conclusion, except for the fact that it is being challenged now. If you want respect, you have to earn it by posting things that are well thought out. It isn't that I'm being disrespectful, but rather that I am asking you to extend respect to other posters (namely to copperfield) by not jumping to conclusions so quickly about opposites. It could be that the opposite of giving respect is asking for it.

"Respect is a property of the individual." ....????..... The difference between respect and obedience is easily mistaken. In fact, it makes a good deal of sense to train people to confuse the two.
The Power of the imagination is being realized. Being realized is the power of the imagination.







Post#489 at 03-22-2010 03:40 AM by K-I-A 67 [at joined Jan 2005 #posts 3,010]
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Quote Originally Posted by SaintStephen74 View Post
So, now the opposite of respect for the govt is disrespect? What happened to anarchy? It wouldn't be hard to talk you out of your newly found conclusion, except for the fact that it is being challenged now. If you want respect, you have to earn it by posting things that are well thought out. It isn't that I'm being disrespectful, but rather that I am asking you to extend respect to other posters (namely to copperfield) by not jumping to conclusions so quickly about opposites. It could be that the opposite of giving respect is asking for it.

"Respect is a property of the individual." ....????..... The difference between respect and obedience is easily mistaken. In fact, it makes a good deal of sense to train people to confuse the two.
You can ask for and demand respect all day long, but if you don't have respect or show respect, you're not going to earn or recieve respect. Personally, I've never asked or demanded respect. I've always been able to earn it. Do you consider yourself a challenge or threat to me personally? Do you view yourself or think of yourself as now worthy or in a position of demanding my respect? Anarchy is the end result when there is no respect for government.







Post#490 at 03-22-2010 07:26 AM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
You can ask for and demand respect all day long, but if you don't have respect or show respect, you're not going to earn or recieve respect. Personally, I've never asked or demanded respect. I've always been able to earn it. Do you consider yourself a challenge or threat to me personally? Do you view yourself or think of yourself as now worthy or in a position of demanding my respect? Anarchy is the end result when there is no respect for government.
Life, liberty, commerce, entertainment, the family, and every other aspect of civilization cannot survive if we do not obey the law. Yes, at times, non-violent civil disobedience has forced some reconsideration of an unjust law and its overthrow. But Lincoln defined the issue in the civil war very clearly and brilliantly: can an elected government enforce its laws? The answer, fortunately, was yes, and slavery disappeared from the earth as a result. The Republican Party is irresponsibly threatening us with anarchy again. KIA, you do not have the right to disobey the government just because you don't like it. If you did, we wouldn't have a government or laws. You do have a natural right to rebellion, but that means you will be treated as a rebel, and you'll need a lot more like you to succeed. And that, fortunately, is not on the horizon. Hell, without a government, how could retired Republican Congressmen (and Democrats too) become lobbyists?







Post#491 at 03-22-2010 09:47 AM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Most people, other than anarchists in principle and criminals in practice, agree that government deserves respect and we should obey the law. However, there are times when that "natural right of rebellion" comes to the fore in people's thinking, and usually it happens when they feel the government has become something alien. That is more likely to occur in a 4T than at any other time in the cycle. (Second-place goes to a 2T.)

Now that HCR has passed the House and there is no doubt about the Senate passing the changes to its bill or the president signing, what will the activists on the right do? There were signs (literally) in the recent protests that we may see a violent insurgency erupt as a result of the fact that they lost the political struggle. That's particularly true if the Republicans lose the coming election.

At some point, one loses confidence in the political process. When that happens, one either gives up, emigrates, or turns to violence. I suspect that some portion of the right may do the last of those before this is all over.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

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Post#492 at 03-22-2010 10:07 AM by K-I-A 67 [at joined Jan 2005 #posts 3,010]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Life, liberty, commerce, entertainment, the family, and every other aspect of civilization cannot survive if we do not obey the law. Yes, at times, non-violent civil disobedience has forced some reconsideration of an unjust law and its overthrow. But Lincoln defined the issue in the civil war very clearly and brilliantly: can an elected government enforce its laws? The answer, fortunately, was yes, and slavery disappeared from the earth as a result. The Republican Party is irresponsibly threatening us with anarchy again. KIA, you do not have the right to disobey the government just because you don't like it. If you did, we wouldn't have a government or laws. You do have a natural right to rebellion, but that means you will be treated as a rebel, and you'll need a lot more like you to succeed. And that, fortunately, is not on the horizon. Hell, without a government, how could retired Republican Congressmen (and Democrats too) become lobbyists?
I'm not Republican party. I'm the US citizen your liberal twit in Washington IGNORED and directed his party to IGNORE! Do you enjoy the life, liberty, commerce, entertainment, the family and every other aspect of life that your paycheck, your job, your future benefits and your financial/social connection to the government provides? When governments go rouge, ignores and defies the will of the people, imposes its will on those people in the name of it's own political sake and political interests, the people who are not politically related HAVE a right to get FUCKING PISSED! There is nothing worse than a low life prick who wheres a nice suit, flaunts his money and drives around in a nice car. We call them PIMPS! Hell, without government and the fruits of government, how would you be able live and survive?
Last edited by K-I-A 67; 03-22-2010 at 10:10 AM.







Post#493 at 03-22-2010 10:16 AM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
When governments go [rogue], ignores and defies the will of the people, imposes its will on those people in the name of it's own political sake and political interests, the people who are not politically related HAVE a right to get FUCKING PISSED!
Once again, you are confusing "I" with "we." You are just you -- one person. You think most people share your mindset. You're wrong. Most people either approve of the recent HCR bill, or wish it had gone further. The government is not defying the will of the people, it's just defying YOUR will. It was either that, or defy the will of MOST of the people.

Sure, the losers are "fucking pissed." But those of them that turn to violence as a result are going to end up fucking dead or in fucking prison.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#494 at 03-22-2010 10:24 AM by K-I-A 67 [at joined Jan 2005 #posts 3,010]
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Quote Originally Posted by Wes84 View Post
There's more to it than just disrespecting the government. Their fear of the impending vote and their lack of political sophistication has given them no other choice (in their minds) but to intimidate certain members of Congress (namely those who are homosexual and African American)through spitting and racial/homophobic insults.
I assure you the anger you see is not fear induced, it is pure anger.







Post#495 at 03-22-2010 10:47 AM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
Most people, other than anarchists in principle and criminals in practice, agree that government deserves respect and we should obey the law. However, there are times when that "natural right of rebellion" comes to the fore in people's thinking, and usually it happens when they feel the government has become something alien. That is more likely to occur in a 4T than at any other time in the cycle. (Second-place goes to a 2T.)
No disagreement at all.

Now that HCR has passed the House and there is no doubt about the Senate passing the changes to its bill or the president signing, what will the activists on the right do? There were signs (literally) in the recent protests that we may see a violent insurgency erupt as a result of the fact that they lost the political struggle. That's particularly true if the Republicans lose the coming election.
Wanna bet Texas tries to pull ye old seccession, yet again? Followed quickly by a move to do so in Viriginia since they're a "commonwealth" and not a state, & justifying that "technically" there's no limits on commonwealths secceeding from the union? Heck, part of Pennsylvania may try it. We're going to be kicking the Governor out of office soon--no one likes Rendell anymore & he's served for eight years, and unless the Democrats in the state can choose a golden boy/girl, we might end up in Tea Party influenced Republican hands.

God, it's at times I wish there were a strong Independent Candidates running on the state level that weren't wildly insane, or relatively unknown.

At some point, one loses confidence in the political process. When that happens, one either gives up, emigrates, or turns to violence. I suspect that some portion of the right may do the last of those before this is all over.
I was actually surprised not to see riots in the streets this morning, but I guess this is the moment one calls the "quiet before the storm".

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#496 at 03-22-2010 10:58 AM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by K-I-A 67 View Post
When governments go rouge, ignores and defies the will of the people, imposes its will on those people in the name of it's own political sake and political interests, the people who are not politically related HAVE a right to get FUCKING PISSED
For sure, that's why we got rid of the GOP Congress in 2006 and the GOP executive in 2008.







Post#497 at 03-22-2010 11:06 AM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
I was actually surprised not to see riots in the streets this morning, but I guess this is the moment one calls the "quiet before the storm".
~Chas'88
BR, Rani, and now Chas88 sound like they are almost wishing for violence to break out. As if we should settle things once and for all in one big orgy of violence.

I pray to God this does not happen. Once you begin justifying political violence, it is hard to pull back. It would be a bloodbath. Governments would fall, armies would mutiny, the economy would collapse. 4T or not, I urge you to cool the triumphalism a little bit.

James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#498 at 03-22-2010 11:09 AM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
BR, Rani, and now Chas88 sound like they are almost wishing for violence to break out. As if we should settle things once and for all in one big orgy of violence.

I pray to God this does not happen. Once you begin justifying political violence, it is hard to pull back. It would be a bloodbath. Governments would fall, armies would mutiny, the economy would collapse. 4T or not, I urge you to cool the triumphalism a little bit.

James50
Predicting that something may happen is not the same as wishing it will happen.







Post#499 at 03-22-2010 11:15 AM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
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Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
Predicting that something may happen is not the same as wishing it will happen.
Correct. I am trying to warn against the dark side of the S/H 4T way of thinking: that we begin to wish for the apocalyptic moment as a way to justify all our beliefs.

James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#500 at 03-22-2010 11:33 AM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Do what? Where did I say that?
I think the thread was:

BR "But those of them that turn to violence as a result are going to end up fucking dead or in fucking prison."

Your response:

"Let the 4T begin."

Or at least that was how I threaded (heard) it.

(You do love asking questions, don't you? I prefer declarative statements. I hope you will make a few.)

James50
Last edited by James50; 03-22-2010 at 11:40 AM.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
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