Originally Posted by KaiserD2

It's funny listening to Roadbldr. I learned to shoot an M-16 in basic training for the Army Reserves. In fact, I became extremely good at it--I was one of the best shots in the company. But that was an extremely structured environment. You loaded, took your rifle off safety, and fired only on command, and woe betide the soldier who did anything unauthorized. And despite everything that is happening, I cannot imagine wanting a firearm in my home or using it now. This impulse is probably at the heart of my long-running disputes with Neil Howe, who not only expects, but in some sense would welcome, a fairly large-scale war as part of the 4T. I've lived through enough war, thank you. I also believe that civilization has reached the stage where we should be able to leave lethal violence to our duly constituted authorities. It may indeed be a great challenge to deal with whatever may come up here at home over the next ten years.

I don't relish the idea of arming myself to the teeth either. Nor do I welcome the idea of a large-scale war... certainly not on my home soil. But if the fringe right one day decides to attack my neighborhood (I'm thinking the 2015-20 timeframe), I intend to help defend it.

And I'm not convinced the cops or the NG will be there to help... like they were when the fringe left threatened Weequahic back in '67. If these people get their way, the "beast" of government will be so starved that essential services will go away. We'll be left to fend for ourselves.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

I don't relish the idea of arming myself to the teeth either. Nor do I welcome the idea of a large-scale war... certainly not on my home soil. But if the fringe right one day decides to attack my neighborhood (I'm thinking the 2015-20 timeframe), I intend to help defend it.

And I'm not convinced the cops or the NG will be there to help... like they were when the fringe left threatened Weequahic back in '67. If these people get their way, the "beast" of government will be so starved that essential services will go away. We'll be left to fend for ourselves.

I don't think the RW has any interest in your property. I have no interest in your valuables or your property. The chances are more likely you will be defending yourself, your house or your nieghborhood property from L-wing gangs, anarchists and looters or LW scurge as I tend to view them and categorize them. RW scurge knows its place and will stay in its place, so to speak.

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 11:12 pm

There is justifiably some concern relating to the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, and violent threats. It’s just not quite what you’ve been hearing in Big Media. On Twitter, a fellow calling himself Jason Brown has been posting since May 10, 2009, and has a total of 379 messages posted so far. He is a fan of Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow.



Typical of his leftist political beliefs are messages like this:

@maddow doesnt Cheney seem like this weird dark evil prince hmm say like Mr. Burns and i guess ol’ George was Smithers

and this:

goin 2 watch keith olbermann and laugh at the latest heartless basterds of the world

and this:

@carloswatson why does G.O.P. leaders endorse racism,hatred,fearmongering,and falsehoods dont they know the world is witnessing this tactic

and this:

their no racist people in the dem.party they all come from the south and they are republican which is why we still see promotion of hatred

Comment: In recent days, Brown has been saying that he is concerned about the violence that he believes Sarah Palin is fostering. So, he is threatening to kill Sarah Palin and her family. I had hoped to post about 20 screenshots from this guy’s Twitter account, but with the technical work being done on the site I find myself suddenly unable to upload images.

So I will just quote you the messages. He posted most of them tonight, and they include messages like this:

@sEaTtLe_MeTrO Death 2 Palin family them retarded hillbillies take teabaggers w/ you hateful bitch

and this:

We cant expect gov to intervene we must shoot Gen. Palin on site be 4 her troops strike again!

and this:

@interactionswst one word racism choose sides plain and simply that bitch Palin launch an attack, she need 2 b shot on site!

and this:

@Palin360 you need 2 b assassinated soon we ll settle 4 one of the family if not u!

and this:

maybe it takes a murder or 2 2 get the point across take aim at radical TP members

and this:

@BRIANGLAD Palin will b met with gunfire her or her family

and this:

@SarahStormRpt u need 2 be shot on site startin that racist Tp shit, all you all do is promo violence dont cry when some kill u basterds

and this:

IS Sarah Palin still alive, please feel free 2 domecheck that bitch! she will look good in tha box the TP left on someones lawn

and this:

Yeah shorty i know soon as a bitch get killed bout a lie then ppl gone realize how stupid n lack info can get u hurt TP fuckin wit fire

and this:

@Southfive her map w crosshair need to b put on her family she that bitch can die or a TP supporter

and this:

Does Palin really want what she ask 4? we ll see after death strikes i guess no pose 2 see her rhetoric,it can b dangerous. but who cares!

and this:

i got 2 go see how many more targets Gen. Palin got mapped out that bitch gone get or someone i hope its GOP one of them racist fuckers

and this:

THe street gangs of america can take on the teabaggers and Palin. TP is callin 4 war just shoot any TP associates and family MS13 BITCHES!

and this:

I cant wait till someone serious hurt that bitch Palin or one of her children soon she out of control!

and this:

@Oplis the ppl of color have been wait n 4 no one can agree on history so suggest the Palin plan let roll!ms13 will take care of that bitch

and this:

Palin came 2 lower 48 2 start a civil divide this could b the moment of truth 4 americans 2 put her down

and this:

i encourage ppl 2 meet the TP wit the same acts of violence Palin instructs them 2 do we need 2 harass them 2 their racist graves

and this:

#hcr proof that Palin targeted Va. rep. w/ her map and someone followed up we have 2 stop this terrorist name Sarah someone please kill her!

For some reason this one seems particularly ominous:

Does anyone have that alaskan address 4 the Palins?

__________________________________________________ _______


You won't be hearing anything about these horrific threats in the mainstream media, of course. So I thot to post them here for you all to see.

Just looking to get a break from the tea partiers that will shoot your neighborhood and the thought police coming to take your guns.


I was wondering what opinions people here have on the flash mobs which have been happening in Philly.


Are these just Millies looking for trouble?
Poor inner city youth crying out for help?
Criminals looking for a chance to steal and vandalize?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/br.../89237152.html


/By Bob Moran and Troy Graham
INQUIRER STAFF WRITERS

Why are there violent "flash mobs" in Philadelphia?
In different settings, different teenagers Thursday offered a variety of views on the recent furor over flash mobs, including the very term.
They scolded their peers. The boys said they were looking for girls. Some did it to establish a reputation, they said, and some didn't like the label being applied to them. They said the swarming was pointless. They said it probably would continue.
Authorities can't "put some tape on it and it's finished. . . . It's not really that simple," said Martisha Hardy, 17, of Germantown.
Hardy was among five teens who were given an hour-long live-radio forum at Power 99 FM to offer their takes on flash mobs. The teens are part of a group called YoACAP, or Youth Outreach Adolescent Community Awareness Program, which provides prevention services for young people.
Earlier in the day, from a video screen in an Overbrook High School classroom, school safety coordinator Curry Bailey asked students for their opinions.
"Pointless," one boy called out.
"They're giving us a bad name," a girl said.
"I feel offended at being referred to as a flash mob," another said. The term has become convenient shorthand for the large, destructive gatherings of teenagers that have swarmed the city four times since December.
On Monday and Tuesday, 29 teens were convicted in Family Court of felony rioting for being part of troublemaking gatherings in February and this month.
The Overbrook students were taking part in a school district Webinar on the safe use of social media, which was being shown via Web cam to 10 Philadelphia high schools.
Students at all city high schools were to view a video clip at the end of the Webinar and participate in teacher-led discussions on social media and flash mobs.
While text-messaging and social-media sites, such as Facebook and MySpace, have played a role in spreading word of large gatherings, the Overbrook students were quick to counter what they said was a myth: They said teenagers do not use Twitter.
Bysil Doe, a freshman, and other students described as overblown the notion that massive, violent student gatherings were being organized online.
"The only text messages is from your friends," Doe said. "Why should I be labeled as something I'm not doing?"
Several Overbrook students were equally critical of the juveniles who have started fights, assaulted bystanders, and destroyed property.
"That why it's up to you to choose the people you hang out with," said Ashana Davenport, a freshman. "If you do bad and you're around bad, most of the time you become bad."
Several students noted that the so-called flash mobs had taken place at long-standing hangouts for teenagers, such as South Street and near the Gallery at Market East.
Doe said he had gone to South Street on Saturday night, when the latest violence broke out. Hundreds of teens assembled there on the first warm weekend night of the year.
"We went down there for the girls," he said. "South Street is where you go."
At Overbrook and during the radio program, students also were asked what could be done to prevent the violence. Several mentioned more after-school activities and recreation programs, but one boy at Overbrook pointed out that those services were available now.
"I think if teenagers knew more about how it affects their future and knew about the consequences . . . that would prevent it," said Shaun Loadholt, a senior at Overbrook.
On the radio, Marques Carson, 17, said many groups of young people from different neighborhoods who, when they all find themselves in the same place, are bound to clash.
"Half of these neighborhoods are going to battle," said Carson, a West Philadelphia teen.
In these fights, or in causing other types of chaos, the youths are looking to "catch a rep," said John Laderer, 16, of Southwest Philadelphia.
"They doing this to get buzz, to ring bells," Laderer explained.
"Image is becoming a big matter on the street," Carson added.
The radio program hosts, Uncle O and Mikey Dredd, kept emphasizing to any would-be flash-mob participants that they can face serious jail time, or worse.
"You never know who's carrying a hammer," said Dredd, referring to a gun.
But most of the participants don't think they'll get arrested, the teens said. Like many young people, they don't think about consequences.
The radio hosts expressed astonishment that teens would videotape themselves committing crimes.
But Laderer said that posting videos online served as "proof" that a person was not to be messed with, which then added to their rep.
Though the city's youths are facing stricter curfew enforcement and police scrutiny, the problem won't be going away soon, Carson said. "I don't think it's going to slow down," he said.

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

I don't think the RW has any interest in your property.

That depends on which part of the right wing you're talking about.

The right wing has two main parts. There's what might be called the "inner" and the "outer" right wing. (Not to be confused with Orwell's Inner Party and Outer Party, although there are some similarities.) The outer right are much more numerous, and consist of people who usually vote Republican, participate in Tea Party events, watch Fox News, and think along the ideological lines they've been taught, which completely obscures the extent to which government policy facilitates taking their property (along with our property) and transferring it over time into the control of the members of the inner right.

The inner right consists of the economic powers that be, together with a lot of elected Republican officials, and Fox News itself. These people are fully aware of how government policy transfers wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich, and for them that's the whole point. Everything else is just a talking point designed to persuade the members of the outer right to give power to the inner right so that they can pick the pockets of everyone else in the country -- including the outer right themselves.

The outer right have no interest in my property, that's true. They're victims just like I am. (Or more so, since they're fooled as well as stolen from.)

The inner right, on the other hand, do want my property, and that of everyone else that they can get their paws on.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

That depends on which part of the right wing you're talking about.

The right wing has two main parts. There's what might be called the "inner" and the "outer" right wing. (Not to be confused with Orwell's Inner Party and Outer Party, although there are some similarities.) The outer right are much more numerous, and consist of people who usually vote Republican, participate in Tea Party events, watch Fox News, and think along the ideological lines they've been taught, which completely obscures the extent to which government policy facilitates taking their property (along with our property) and transferring it over time into the control of the members of the inner right.

The inner right consists of the economic powers that be, together with a lot of elected Republican officials, and Fox News itself. These people are fully aware of how government policy transfers wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich, and for them that's the whole point. Everything else is just a talking point designed to persuade the members of the outer right to give power to the inner right so that they can pick the pockets of everyone else in the country -- including the outer right themselves.

The outer right have no interest in my property, that's true. They're victims just like I am. (Or more so, since they're fooled as well as stolen from.)

The inner right, on the other hand, do want my property, and that of everyone else that they can get their paws on.

Or break it down further; Neo-Cons (Zionists) and Paleo-Cons (William Buckley, Pat Buchanan types). I fit in with the Paleo's.

Originally Posted by kurthi

I was wondering what opinions people here have on the flash mobs which have been happening in Philly.

I've been watching the flash mob phenomenon for awhile now... I even asked the Millies about it here when we had those recent campus riots.

They've been around since 2003 or so. Originally intended to poke fun at conformist Millies, they've actually gained appreciation in that group.

They've also become more political/social over time -- the early "Critical Mass" rides are a good example. Recent ones have been both fun/silly (dancing at Oprah's outdoor show in Chicago, pillow fights in Toronto, snowball fights in DC, etc) but are now trending more negative. Police using pepper spray to disperse them have turned some violent. In other cases, elements take it as a sign they can loot or vandalize with little chance of getting caught.

Originally Posted by kurthi

Just looking to get a break from the tea partiers that will shoot your neighborhood and the thought police coming to take your guns.


I was wondering what opinions people here have on the flash mobs which have been happening in Philly.


Are these just Millies looking for trouble?
Poor inner city youth crying out for help?
Criminals looking for a chance to steal and vandalize?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/br.../89237152.html


/By Bob Moran and Troy Graham
INQUIRER STAFF WRITERS

Why are there violent "flash mobs" in Philadelphia?
In different settings, different teenagers Thursday offered a variety of views on the recent furor over flash mobs, including the very term.
They scolded their peers. The boys said they were looking for girls. Some did it to establish a reputation, they said, and some didn't like the label being applied to them. They said the swarming was pointless. They said it probably would continue.
Authorities can't "put some tape on it and it's finished. . . . It's not really that simple," said Martisha Hardy, 17, of Germantown.
Hardy was among five teens who were given an hour-long live-radio forum at Power 99 FM to offer their takes on flash mobs. The teens are part of a group called YoACAP, or Youth Outreach Adolescent Community Awareness Program, which provides prevention services for young people.
Earlier in the day, from a video screen in an Overbrook High School classroom, school safety coordinator Curry Bailey asked students for their opinions.
"Pointless," one boy called out.
"They're giving us a bad name," a girl said.
"I feel offended at being referred to as a flash mob," another said. The term has become convenient shorthand for the large, destructive gatherings of teenagers that have swarmed the city four times since December.
On Monday and Tuesday, 29 teens were convicted in Family Court of felony rioting for being part of troublemaking gatherings in February and this month.
The Overbrook students were taking part in a school district Webinar on the safe use of social media, which was being shown via Web cam to 10 Philadelphia high schools.
Students at all city high schools were to view a video clip at the end of the Webinar and participate in teacher-led discussions on social media and flash mobs.
While text-messaging and social-media sites, such as Facebook and MySpace, have played a role in spreading word of large gatherings, the Overbrook students were quick to counter what they said was a myth: They said teenagers do not use Twitter.
Bysil Doe, a freshman, and other students described as overblown the notion that massive, violent student gatherings were being organized online.
"The only text messages is from your friends," Doe said. "Why should I be labeled as something I'm not doing?"
Several Overbrook students were equally critical of the juveniles who have started fights, assaulted bystanders, and destroyed property.
"That why it's up to you to choose the people you hang out with," said Ashana Davenport, a freshman. "If you do bad and you're around bad, most of the time you become bad."
Several students noted that the so-called flash mobs had taken place at long-standing hangouts for teenagers, such as South Street and near the Gallery at Market East.
Doe said he had gone to South Street on Saturday night, when the latest violence broke out. Hundreds of teens assembled there on the first warm weekend night of the year.
"We went down there for the girls," he said. "South Street is where you go."
At Overbrook and during the radio program, students also were asked what could be done to prevent the violence. Several mentioned more after-school activities and recreation programs, but one boy at Overbrook pointed out that those services were available now.
"I think if teenagers knew more about how it affects their future and knew about the consequences . . . that would prevent it," said Shaun Loadholt, a senior at Overbrook.
On the radio, Marques Carson, 17, said many groups of young people from different neighborhoods who, when they all find themselves in the same place, are bound to clash.
"Half of these neighborhoods are going to battle," said Carson, a West Philadelphia teen.
In these fights, or in causing other types of chaos, the youths are looking to "catch a rep," said John Laderer, 16, of Southwest Philadelphia.
"They doing this to get buzz, to ring bells," Laderer explained.
"Image is becoming a big matter on the street," Carson added.
The radio program hosts, Uncle O and Mikey Dredd, kept emphasizing to any would-be flash-mob participants that they can face serious jail time, or worse.
"You never know who's carrying a hammer," said Dredd, referring to a gun.
But most of the participants don't think they'll get arrested, the teens said. Like many young people, they don't think about consequences.
The radio hosts expressed astonishment that teens would videotape themselves committing crimes.
But Laderer said that posting videos online served as "proof" that a person was not to be messed with, which then added to their rep.
Though the city's youths are facing stricter curfew enforcement and police scrutiny, the problem won't be going away soon, Carson said. "I don't think it's going to slow down," he said.

My take: this sounds like plain old juvenile delinquency - the sort they've been complaining about for my entire lifetime - but technology-enabled. Go back to bed, folks, nothing to see here except the same old bad behavior youths of certain temperaments have always gotten up to.

Thanks so much, everyone. I think that this forum draws a much more thoughtful crowd than the other, which is based upon civic issues in my deeply divided, Rust Belt hometown. To be fair, over the years, I have posted snark over there in response to anything that I considered illogical, and didn't exactly build up goodwill.

I haven't been spending as much time here because I've been working on my dissertation and on the academic job market! I'm pleased to say that I turned in the diss to my committee last week, and I defend next week Wednesday. Starting this fall, I will be an assistant professor of education at an urban university back in my hometown, but since I've already got a house and a housemate, I plan to live here in my college town for a while, which is only 45 minutes away from my new job. Definitely plan to try to use the Theory in my work in education; I believe it may be more accepted there than in the humanities.

Anyway, I'll be here much more often. I'm not afraid to admit my fears about the way this 4T is starting. Although I'm liberal, I fear potential violence from both sides. I've never seen things so heated, not even in the run-up to the Iraq War back in 2002-2003. I've coauthored an article with an advisor about how we ought to teach students how to strengthen their arguments with reasoning. The teaching of classical rhetoric and logic fell out of favor in our schools long before I started my education, and with modifications, we believe that this needs to be incorporated into secondary curriculum once again. We see what the late 20th century encouragement of "writing what you feel" and "speak from your heart" has done to public discourse. Everyone believes that they are an expert, and everyone believes that they are morally correct.

Right now, it feels like the 1850s. A house divided.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

That depends on which part of the right wing you're talking about.

The right wing has two main parts. There's what might be called the "inner" and the "outer" right wing. (Not to be confused with Orwell's Inner Party and Outer Party, although there are some similarities.) The outer right are much more numerous, and consist of people who usually vote Republican, participate in Tea Party events, watch Fox News, and think along the ideological lines they've been taught, which completely obscures the extent to which government policy facilitates taking their property (along with our property) and transferring it over time into the control of the members of the inner right.

The inner right consists of the economic powers that be, together with a lot of elected Republican officials, and Fox News itself. These people are fully aware of how government policy transfers wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich, and for them that's the whole point. Everything else is just a talking point designed to persuade the members of the outer right to give power to the inner right so that they can pick the pockets of everyone else in the country -- including the outer right themselves.

The outer right have no interest in my property, that's true. They're victims just like I am. (Or more so, since they're fooled as well as stolen from.)

The inner right, on the other hand, do want my property, and that of everyone else that they can get their paws on.

Would you describe the relationship between the inner and out left?

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

That depends on which part of the right wing you're talking about.

The right wing has two main parts. There's what might be called the "inner" and the "outer" right wing. (Not to be confused with Orwell's Inner Party and Outer Party, although there are some similarities.) The outer right are much more numerous, and consist of people who usually vote Republican, participate in Tea Party events, watch Fox News, and think along the ideological lines they've been taught, which completely obscures the extent to which government policy facilitates taking their property (along with our property) and transferring it over time into the control of the members of the inner right.

The inner right consists of the economic powers that be, together with a lot of elected Republican officials, and Fox News itself. These people are fully aware of how government policy transfers wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich, and for them that's the whole point. Everything else is just a talking point designed to persuade the members of the outer right to give power to the inner right so that they can pick the pockets of everyone else in the country -- including the outer right themselves.

The outer right have no interest in my property, that's true. They're victims just like I am. (Or more so, since they're fooled as well as stolen from.)

The inner right, on the other hand, do want my property, and that of everyone else that they can get their paws on.

I think this is insightful. It also explains my discomfort with who my "friends" are sometimes when I get agitated about government control and intrusion in my life.

Last year, there was some concern that the federal government was going to take over the banks. My fear was the opposite. It seemed to me that the banks had already taken over the government. I cannot think of anything the government has done in the last 20 years that was inimical to the interests of Goldman Sachs. My candidate for evil genius of the last 20 years is Bob Rubin (from GS) who was Clinton's Treasury secretary, got Glass-Steagall repealed, and then was on the board of CitiBank as it leveraged itself into too big to fail. Then his protege Hank Paulsen (also of GS) was strategically on hand to funnel billions in bailout money to the big banks. Since then, their profits have soared.

Talk about wanting to get their paws on everyone's property.

I do sometimes feel like I have been fooled.

James50

I haven't been spending as much time here because I've been working on my dissertation and on the academic job market! I'm pleased to say that I turned in the diss to my committee last week, and I defend next week Wednesday. Starting this fall, I will be an assistant professor of education at an urban university back in my hometown

Congrats and good luck to you.

Originally Posted by Silifi

Doesn't intent to do something always rule the day?

Yes. Unfortunately, this is a case of "words have meaning". Just substitute microphones now, for the megaphones in the 1960's. To quote Led Zepplin, "The song remains the same".

And I find it very hard to believe that there exists a shooter that is so awesome that he knows how to arc a bullet into a window.

Well, back then, "burn baby burn", now we have militias, threats to secede, etc. Nobody wins.

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

Would you describe the relationship between the inner and out left?

The inner deceives, manipulates and uses.

The outer is deceived, manipulated and used.

Originally Posted by Publius

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 11:12 pm

T

You won't be hearing anything about these horrific threats in the mainstream media, of course. So I thot to post them here for you all to see.

Like I said, violence begets violence, and nothing good becomes of it.
OK dude, I'm fully willing to admit that the inner city riots, Kent State, the SLA, MOVE, etc. (lefty extremism) from the 2T were WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. :: Rags tosses the gauntlet down:: Can YOU admit that factions of the tea party movement and militias, Timothy Mcveigh (who did domestic terrorism right here in Oklahoma) are also, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Violence does indeed beget violence. Retribution and revenge tend to take on a life of their own as well, usually with little regard for the original but very flawed reasons for their being put into motion. Once the cycle of violence begins, and it can be ignited by the right or the left, it is hard to stop and must run its often very long and bloody course. It is important to oppose violence regardless of its origin, even if the proponents are those who were thought to be your political allies.

Instead of violence, there needs to be dialogue, and the seeking of common ground. It is obvious that both the right and the left want what is best for America and the world. Their visions of that ideal are often different, but there will be many features in common. Their paths to achieve their goals may be very different, but again, there will be many elements in common. Once some common ground has been established as to goals as routes to that future, then creative solutions can be put into action.

If the two sides come to the table with predetermined solutions, then it won't work. That is trying to solve the problem backwards. Starting from the beginning, establishing a common goal and values, and then finding solutions to get to that goal will be much more effective. It will also enhance the reputation of legislators, and defuse much of the violence.

Originally Posted by ASB65

Congrats and good luck to you.

Thanks. Postmodern academe suits the Xer in me... only gamblers would choose this route in 2010. It's very much like playing the nerd equivalent of Survivor.

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

Violence does indeed beget violence. Retribution and revenge tend to take on a life of their own as well, usually with little regard for the original but very flawed reasons for their being put into motion. Once the cycle of violence begins, and it can be ignited by the right or the left, it is hard to stop and must run its often very long and bloody course. It is important to oppose violence regardless of its origin, even if the proponents are those who were thought to be your political allies.

Instead of violence, there needs to be dialogue, and the seeking of common ground. It is obvious that both the right and the left want what is best for America and the world. Their visions of that ideal are often different, but there will be many features in common. Their paths to achieve their goals may be very different, but again, there will be many elements in common. Once some common ground has been established as to goals as routes to that future, then creative solutions can be put into action.

If the two sides come to the table with predetermined solutions, then it won't work. That is trying to solve the problem backwards. Starting from the beginning, establishing a common goal and values, and then finding solutions to get to that goal will be much more effective. It will also enhance the reputation of legislators, and defuse much of the violence.

Wayne, beautifully put. My worry is that no "Great Uniter" apparent is on the scene. Both Bush and Obama promised bipartisanship, and it eluded both of them. With each handover of power, the country becomes more and more polarized.

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

Wayne, beautifully put. My worry is that no "Great Uniter" apparent is on the scene. Both Bush and Obama promised bipartisanship, and it eluded both of them. With each handover of power, the country becomes more and more polarized.

Succinct expression of my own frustration.

James50

Originally Posted by Chas'88

They've been known to insult some of our black students & a few girls (calling them sluts & whores).

Last night I caught their license plate number and reported it to the campus police. They're aware and are doing "as much as they can". Still it doesn't stop me from imagining setting up a trap that'll send their red pick-up flying off the road and land them right into the little creek behind the fraternities aptly named "the Tiber"--(we always see things from the fraternities floating in "the Tiber" that we'd rather not know exactly where they came from). Ahh, one can imagine.

~Chas'88

Got this email today from the head of the "Department of Public Safety"

(I edited the email for "anonymity's" sake.)

Dear Campus Community Member,

This morning, March 26th, around 2:25am, a student reported to the Department of Public Safety and the (...) Police that he had been physically assaulted off campus by an unidentified person in the area of (...) and (...) Streets.

Around 2:25am, two students were walking east along (...) Street near (...) Street when they observed two vehicles (one red in color and one white or “light” in color) turn right onto (...) Street from (...) Street. Both vehicles stopped abruptly once the occupants observed the students and an unidentified male subject exited the white or “light” in color vehicle, yelled at the students in an aggressive tone, and then subsequently punched one of the two students in the face knocking him to the ground. The male subject then charged the other student who was ultimately able to flee the immediate area thereby avoiding physical contact with the subject. The injured student was transported to the (...) Hospital where he was treated for his injuries and has since been released. The (...) Borough Police were contacted and a report was filed with the police for further follow-up and investigation.

Descriptions:

Suspect:Students describe the unidentified subject who committed the assault as a white male, approximately 6’ tall, shaved head, with a muscular build. No additional descriptive information is available at this time.

Vehicle:Students were unable to provide a description of the vehicles other than their color, as indicated above.

If anyone has additional information regarding this incident that could prove useful in investigative efforts, please contact the (...) Borough Police or Department of Public Safety.

I'm nearly positive its those same guys who've been accosting me and several other students at night. And while these guys say that it happened "off campus", really it was less than a block from campus.

Things are getting bad...

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by XerTeacher

Thanks so much, everyone. I think that this forum draws a much more thoughtful crowd than the other, which is based upon civic issues in my deeply divided, Rust Belt hometown. To be fair, over the years, I have posted snark over there in response to anything that I considered illogical, and didn't exactly build up goodwill.

I haven't been spending as much time here because I've been working on my dissertation and on the academic job market! I'm pleased to say that I turned in the diss to my committee last week, and I defend next week Wednesday. Starting this fall, I will be an assistant professor of education at an urban university back in my hometown, but since I've already got a house and a housemate, I plan to live here in my college town for a while, which is only 45 minutes away from my new job. Definitely plan to try to use the Theory in my work in education; I believe it may be more accepted there than in the humanities.

Congratulations on your accomplishment.

Anyway, I'll be here much more often. I'm not afraid to admit my fears about the way this 4T is starting. Although I'm liberal, I fear potential violence from both sides. I've never seen things so heated, not even in the run-up to the Iraq War back in 2002-2003. I've coauthored an article with an advisor about how we ought to teach students how to strengthen their arguments with reasoning. The teaching of classical rhetoric and logic fell out of favor in our schools long before I started my education, and with modifications, we believe that this needs to be incorporated into secondary curriculum once again. We see what the late 20th century encouragement of "writing what you feel" and "speak from your heart" has done to public discourse. Everyone believes that they are an expert, and everyone believes that they are morally correct.

My old Silent Shakespeare professor says we've moved into the "Relativist" world, where we've abandoned the "universal truth" and now everyone's individual opinion is "their own truth".

The last two times there was a universal truth we had resurrection "gods" to make all of us symbolically whole:

Dionysus was killed by his followers every year and would be eaten to renew the unity of his cult.

Christians have communion, which in Catholic services the bread and the wine is believed to literally transform into Christ's body & Christ's blood. The eating of which unites individuals into the one body of Christ: the Church. The Protestant Reformation challenged that belief (amongst others) and now most Protestants believe that the bread is

Theater acted as a replacement for cultural communion for a while during the Rennaisance (Spanish Golden Age, anybody?), but since then it's lost that power.

Science has acted as the universal truth as of late, although it's starting to teeter (IMO).

We'll soon need a new communion ritual which unites individuals into "one body" with an universal truth accepted by all.

Right now, it feels like the 1850s. A house divided.

Each day I'm finding that I'm agreeing with that assessment more and more. Only this time, it's coming with a Civic generation ready.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

I'm nearly positive its those same guys who've been accosting me and several other students at night. And while these guys say that it happened "off campus", really it was less than a block from campus.

Things are getting bad...

~Chas'88

How do you know that they're hurting college students for political reasons? It could just be garden variety drunkenness.

Originally Posted by Rose1992

How do you know that they're hurting college students for political reasons? It could just be garden variety drunkenness.

I thought this was a thread to post violence we're seeing in our communities.

Also, to answer your question, these incidents didn't really start until the night that the Health Care Bill passed. And my college is considered by the conservative community it's in to be a "liberal ivory tower".

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

And my college is considered by the conservative community it's in to be a "liberal ivory tower".~Chas'88

If you listen to Rush Limbaugh, the spokesperson for much of the Right, there is a consistent thread of anti-intellectualism and anti-scientism. His inability to deal with anything more nuanced than a duality is pounded home throughout each broadcast. I wish I had $100 for every time I've heard him state two diametrically opposed sides of a question, and then shout into his microphone, "It's THAT simple!!" When of course it is never THAT simple.

Go for example to the "Townhall Conservatives" website and look in on the commentary to the various columnists. The same thread of anti-intellectualism, religion/superstition, anti-science and right-wing mythology abounds.

Thus the notion that "common sense," whatever that is, is so vastly superior to education, becomes attractive to those who for whatever reason have no education, and no tools for digging out facts and figures and analyzing the same. The ability of the uneducated to use a chain saw or rebuild a carberator is held up as evidence that the "pointy-headed" liberal elite has their collective heads up their collective ass.

This bunch is convinced that every college campus is rife with wild-eyed lesbian-studies professors out to take away their guns and make them drink tea from china with their little finger crooked. I would challenge them to sit in on a semester of differential equations and report back. Or balance a page of oxidation-reduction chemical equations and then tell us if they even know what their professor's political stance is on any issue.

I'm reminded of the Ghost of Christmas Present from Dickens:

From the foldings of its robe, it brought two children; wretched, abject, frightful, hideous, miserable. They knelt down at its feet, and clung upon the outside of its garment.

They were a boy and a girl. Yellow, meagre, ragged, scowling, wolfish; but prostrate, too, in their humility. Where graceful youth should have filled their features out, and touched them with its freshest tints, a stale and shrivelled hand, like that of age, had pinched, and twisted them, and pulled them into shreds. Where angels might have sat enthroned, devils lurked, and glared out menacing. No change, no degradation, no perversion of humanity, in any grade, through all the mysteries of wonderful creation, has monsters half so horrible and dread.

"Spirit, are they yours?" Scrooge could say no more.

"They are Man's," said the Spirit, looking down upon them. "And they cling to me, appealing from their fathers. This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased."

Originally Posted by kurthi

I didn't know that tea party members have been arrested, tried and convicted for these crimes.

or you just slandering and insinuating these acts were done by tea party people?

[warm(er)]Welcome to the FTF Kurthi. Let me just be a cultural liason for you as you are new here:
1) If you bet something negative against the left, you'll be expected to prove it.
2) If you had said that the staffers 'don't have the right' to trash the place, that would have been different.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

Nope, I just said that they don't have the right to do any of those things (Neither does anyone else).

Your accusation was much more specific.

3) The left vs. right meme is pretty strong here at FTF. Lots of left-right finger pointing. If you are pissed about anything the current regime is doing, you are either a) a right wing radical or b) a conspiracy theory nut whos outta touch w/ "reality" (the REAL one). Its your choice.

Quote:

Right now, it feels like the 1850s. A house divided.

Each day I'm finding that I'm agreeing with that assessment more and more. Only this time, it's coming with a Civic generation ready.

~Chas'88

Gosh I hope so. When I was a kid growing up in the 70's and early 80's, I really don't remember this kind of political hatred. People had different opinions and there were discussions but threats of violence were isolated cases and done by people who were very mentally ill and it was condemed by everyone. Too me it seems this very strong partisanship started heating up in the early 90's and has spiraled into what we have today. I have heard commentators on TV talk about how 30 to 40 years ago legislators would battle it out on the floor during the day and then go out and have drinks together after work. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi and Michelle Bachman sitting down together for socially for a glass of wine? Never going to happen.

So here is my fear. The millie generation was brought up knowing nothing but this. They grew up listening to their (mostly) boomer parents feeding them their extreme views and rherotic. They know nothing else. Obviously, there are sensible people in your generation, Chas, but there are an awful lot of people around your age and younger that have bought into this hook, line and sinker. Just like that millie teacher that brought her hate into my son's 5th grade classroom early this week. This hate is on both sides. My question to you...Are the student's in your college discriminating and assulting (or threatening to assult) other student's who don't agree with their views? Or can most of them sit down and have a civil conversation with one another without it getting ugly?