No, I just read the definitive book on Columbine. It was timed to coincide with McVeigh and the Dravidians. A last-minute slip-up resulted in a one-day delay.

The book is pretty amazing and devastating about the police. The kids did everything but take out an ad in the local paper, and one policeman had filed a search warrant for Eric Harris's house and computer, which would have blown the whole thing wide open. For reasons that were covered up the search warrant was never executed.

DK

I think everyone should be on a full alert this April 19.

There are still more peaceful options for political protest this month.

April 20 ("4/20" in U.S. date notation) has evolved into a counterculture holiday, where people gather to celebrate and consume cannabis. In some locations this celebration coincides with Earth Week. At events in the United States, it is common to hear about Abraham Lincoln, one of many American politicians known for past use of cannabis, who wrote that one of his "favorite things" was "smoking a pipe of sweet hemp".[9] Some events may have a political nature to them, advocating for the decriminalization of non-medical cannabis in the United States.

But if you really like conflict, there's been some suggestion that the anarchists might show up at the April 15th Tea party rally.

Originally Posted by Odin

These people are REALLY starting to frighten me.

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk...-violence.html

At the Media Violence Project, our charter is to protect public safety by researching, documenting and raising awareness about the ever-increasing wave of violent, disgusting crimes perpetrated by members of the American news media. It is a largely thankless task -- often requiring a cast iron stomach -- but if our work has prevented one more American child from falling victim to a criminally insane anchorman or newspaper reporter, it will all have been worth it.

Every day at the MVP we receive emails from concerned citizens, such as this:

Dear Mr. Burge:
I have read with increasing alarm new reports of violence erupting around our country. For example, the recent rampaging campus murderer in Huntsville, Alabama; the Austin, Texas man who flew his plane into an office building; and the unhinged shooter at the Pentagon. Do you suspect these people may have been journalists? Also, what can I do to prevent my family from falling victim to these violent journalists?
Please do not print my name, as I live near a journalist and am concerned about my safety.
Name Withheld By Request

Dear "Name Withheld By Request," let me first say these are excellent questions. Second, let me also say that I do not withhold names by request. Your name is Michael R. Bartolo, and you live at 2311 Briarcliff Court, Brown Deer, WI. . . .


...In the two years since the MVP issued our first report, another tidal wave of media-related bizarre or violent crimes has come to light, each more shocking than the last. Like CNN reporter Richard Quest, arrested in New York’s Central Park in 2008 brandishing a noose or ABC Miami reporter Jeffrey Weinsier, charged with entering a school with a firearm. Or New Hampshire Union Leader sports writer Kevin Provencher, charged with operating a prostitution ring. It is unknown whether Provencher’s alleged activities were related to WABC New York sports anchor Marvell Scott, who was arrested earlier this year for allegedly raping a 14-year old prostitute. It is also unclear whether this Granite State “mack daddy” used a “strong pimp hand” with his “bitches,” but he might have shared tips and techniques with fellow journalists like Jason Scott Kidd, charged in 2009 with hitting a woman in the face at a Mexican restaurant, Gawker editor Richard “Date Rape Tips” Blakely, arrested for domestic violence, or Boise anchorman and alleged wife beater David Tester.
Shocking as they are, these incidents scarcely scratch the surface of the global crime wave caused by rampaging journalists. Our in-depth biennial 30 minute Google search uncovered a seemingly endless catalog of journalist-related crimes, astonishing as much for their depravity as their number.

methinks what you are frightened of is an effective opposition to liberalism in govt and the 4th estate. you're not alone.

liberals in govt and the media are also frightened, so they are putting out the message - "conservatives are violent scary people; they should be put in a box" - hoping that people too busy for more than a half hour of news per night will believe the lie.

liberal govt and media guys didn't report the violent scary liberal street protesters during the bush years because they are on the same side. all the busy people saw then on the 1/2 hour news shows were snippets of peaceful streetwalkers and nothing about the hate mail.

Originally Posted by Joral

...If the agent did anything to incite said violence, then he is guilty like the rest of them...

-Hmmm...

Not exactly guilty just like the rest of them, put guilty.

Of course, we don't know if that is the case. Check back in a few months or years for the full story.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Use "Tea partiers" please.

-Still trying to be painfully polite?

Originally Posted by Wes84

In case no one here has heard, the Democrat Party's headquarters in Alaska was vandalized...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_517834.html

I guess it's a trade off:

http://www.examiner.com/a-2551803~Brick_smashes_Michigan_GOP_office_window.h tml?cid=rss-Michigan_Headlines

Both Democratic and Republican officials nationally have reported vandalism following the passage of national health care reform bills.

Spiral of violence, indeed.


Of course, Lefties have a track record of faking attacks against the DNC, and blaming their opponents:

http://www.gazette.com/opinion/malkin-96276-crime-michelle.html

— In late August 2009, as lawmakers faced citizen revolts at health care town halls nationwide, the Colorado Democratic Party decried a vandalism attack at its Denver headquarters.

A hammer-wielding thug smashed 11 windows and caused $11,000 in property damage. The perpetrator, Maurice Schwenkler, turned out to be a far-left nutball/transgender activist/single-payer anarchist who had worked for an SEIU-tied 527 group and canvassed for a Democratic candidate. Nevertheless, Colorado Democratic Party Chair Pat Waak continued to blame “people opposed to health care” for the attack.

...so who knows.

Originally Posted by Odin

The FBI is warning police across the country that an anti-government group's call to remove governors from office could provoke violence.

-You must be easily frightened. But I already suspected that.

We remove governors all the time. I think one got removed in VA not too long ago. Get over it.


If this had come out four years ago, you'd have been screaming about the administration trying to create hysteria.

This article makes an intersting point about all this:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=133821

Nevertheless, to say that propaganda outlets like MSNBC are making a mountain out of a molehill about the danger of violence and chaos the tea-party movement poses to the republic is an understatement...

The only member of Congress to have experienced a bona fide act of violence was a Republican, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia, who had gunshot go through his window and has received actual anti-Semitic threats faxed to him. He can show you those bullet holes and those letters. They aren't a matter of conjecture or dispute...

...Members of Congress have a dozen law enforcement and investigative agencies they can turn to deal with the individuals who threaten them. That's the proper way to address real actions that pose a real danger.

However, if your goal is simply to score cheap, dishonest political points and change the subject, the Democrats are handling this matter just right.

Originally Posted by 85turtle

Cantor (R-VA) was completely lying about violence against him...

-BTW, Turtle, it looks you're the one who's lying.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

Man arrested for threatening to kill Cantor

This guy sounds like a religious nutjob. This threat, at first glance, doesn't appear to have anything to do with HCR...

Originally Posted by Publius

Your lack of any feeling or outrage is revealing. Were this man somehow tied to the Tea Party, your post would have sounded a loud clarion call...

-So, you're just discovering this about COS et al?!

It's called double-thinking, hypocritical, double-standards:

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

...So cry many Boomers like Haymarket & Playwrite whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

Originally Posted by Texas Curl

methinks what you are frightened of is an effective opposition to liberalism in govt and the 4th estate.

Methinks that we have here a new troll. I'll give you one chance to prove otherwise before consigning you to ignore.

Fear of violence is obviously -- and failure to recognize this will certainly brand you a troll -- not present because said violence is "effective opposition." Effective or not, violence is illegitimate. It endangers lives and property, and it undercuts and poisons the process of democratic governance, and is wrong and to be opposed for that reason.

This is, as I said, obvious. It's kindergarten moral-awareness stuff. You are aware of it; if you say otherwise, you are lying. So here's your chance: retract your bonehead bullshit above. That will prove you are not a troll.

It's one thing to oppose liberalism. It's another thing entirely to defend violent insurgency as a method of opposing liberalism (or anything else). If you do the one, you may be a legitimate discussion partner. If you do the other, you're a troll.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

...Effective or not, violence is illegitimate. It endangers lives and property, and it undercuts and poisons the process of democratic governance, and is wrong and to be opposed for that reason...

-Well, Duh.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

...Fear of violence is obviously not present because said violence is "effective opposition."

-As I pointed out above, WHAT VIOLENCE! The only threat against any congressman so far was against an Elephant who voted vs. Obamacare.

As for the rest, this article hit it on the head:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=133821

Nevertheless, to say that propaganda outlets like MSNBC are making a mountain out of a molehill about the danger of violence and chaos the tea-party movement poses to the republic is an understatement...

The only member of Congress to have experienced a bona fide act of violence was a Republican, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia, who had gunshot go through his window and has received actual anti-Semitic threats faxed to him. He can show you those bullet holes and those letters. They aren't a matter of conjecture or dispute...

...Members of Congress have a dozen law enforcement and investigative agencies they can turn to deal with the individuals who threaten them. That's the proper way to address real actions that pose a real danger.

However, if your goal is simply to score cheap, dishonest political points and change the subject, the Democrats are handling this matter just right.

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

...So cry many Boomers like Haymarket & Playwrite whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

your rant about how violence is inappropriate is dodging the actual issue. no one with influence condones violence (except maybe a few of obama's close friends and advisors).

i'l say it another way. the reporting of violent right wingers is out of proportion to any actual threat and out of proportion vs the reporting of violent lefties. the intent of the reports is not to inform - it is to poison the well, and probably to provoke an incident. hell, if the progressives can't get an actual incident, they'll just make one up.

and isn't iowahawk great?

Originally Posted by Texas Curl

your rant about how violence is inappropriate is dodging the actual issue. no one with influence condones violence (except maybe a few of obama's close friends and advisors).

i'l say it another way. the reporting of violent right wingers is out of proportion to any actual threat and out of proportion vs the reporting of violent lefties. the intent of the reports is not to inform - it is to poison the well, and probably to provoke an incident. hell, if the progressives can't get an actual incident, they'll just make one up.

What violent lefties? Sure, back in the 60s and early 70s most of the violence came from the left. That was a good long time ago. In recent decades, it is the right's extreme that is far more likely to go violent.

There was a real spiral of violence in the early 90s that peaked with Waco, Ruby Ridge and OKC. Clinton's primary response was to direct the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies to use less violent and confrontational tactics, to avoid the spiral of violence by not responding to violence with violence.

Since September 11, 2001 the government response has been preemptive intelligence. One is supposed to wiretap and infiltrate any terrorist group before it launches an attack. The right has held that such intelligence gathering is more important than civil liberties. The left has attempted to defend constitutional rights.

At least until the groups considering violence are from the right.

Reality check here?

Originally Posted by Texas Curl

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk...-violence.html




methinks what you are frightened of is an effective opposition to liberalism in govt and the 4th estate. you're not alone.

liberals in govt and the media are also frightened, so they are putting out the message - "conservatives are violent scary people; they should be put in a box" - hoping that people too busy for more than a half hour of news per night will believe the lie.

liberal govt and media guys didn't report the violent scary liberal street protesters during the bush years because they are on the same side. all the busy people saw then on the 1/2 hour news shows were snippets of peaceful streetwalkers and nothing about the hate mail.

Go back to Free Republic you idiot, you don't need your kind of pro-Fascist stupidity on this board.

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

No, I just read the definitive book on Columbine. It was timed to coincide with McVeigh and the Dravidians. A last-minute slip-up resulted in a one-day delay.

The book is pretty amazing and devastating about the police. The kids did everything but take out an ad in the local paper, and one policeman had filed a search warrant for Eric Harris's house and computer, which would have blown the whole thing wide open. For reasons that were covered up the search warrant was never executed.

DK

I think everyone should be on a full alert this April 19.

Was that Dave Cullen's book? That really was a great read.

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

I think everyone should be on a full alert this April 19.

I wonder if I should tell my Toastmasters Area Governors to reschedule their spring contest? Two are having a joint International Speech contest that evening.

Although Toasties don't seem to be too much of a threat.

Originally Posted by independent

But if you really like conflict, there's been some suggestion that the anarchists might show up at the April 15th Tea party[/URL] rally.

BUT ... if they are truly anarchists, who will organize them?

Originally Posted by independent

There are still more peaceful options for political protest this month.

But if you really like conflict, there's been some suggestion that the anarchists might show up at the April 15th Tea party rally.

4/20 is the birthday of Mohammed. It is also the birthday of someone with the initials AH. I do not mean Alfred Hitchcock.

Originally Posted by Texas Curl

your rant about how violence is inappropriate is dodging the actual issue. no one with influence condones violence (except maybe a few of obama's close friends and advisors).

Off to the iggy list, Texas Cur.

i'l say it another way. the reporting of violent right wingers is out of proportion to any actual threat and out of proportion vs the reporting of violent lefties. the intent of the reports is not to inform - it is to poison the well, and probably to provoke an incident. hell, if the progressives can't get an actual incident, they'll just make one up.

Nobody could have made up the Hutaree cult -- the group in Michigan that toyed with explosives and the idea of setting up IEDs to kill cops in America. So far they seem a decidedly right-wing group, probably an offshoot of some militia.

What you call the Left has little cause for violence. Left-wing violence was Awakening Era ('60s and '70s); right-wing violence is Crisis-Era so far. Any left-wing violence (ordinary crime is not politically defined) will result, should it happen, from either a proletarian revolution or right-wing provocation. A 4T forces radical change to make the system worthy of preservation or else smashes everything.

[QUOTE=pbrower2a;298733]Nobody could have made up the Hutaree cult -- the group in Michigan that toyed with explosives and the idea of setting up IEDs to kill cops in America. So far they seem a decidedly right-wing group, probably an offshoot of some militia.QUOTE]


http://toledoblade.com/article/20100401/NEWS16/4010369

sorry to upset your narrative, but the only discernable political affiliation of this group is with the democrats.

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

What violent lefties? Sure, back in the 60s and early 70s most of the violence came from the left. That was a good long time ago. In recent decades, it is the right's extreme that is far more likely to go violent.

how about 2009?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXBOgPCh9w



and

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

The left has attempted to defend constitutional rights....

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

At least until the groups considering violence are from the right.

do you want to revise and extend these remarks?

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

What violent lefties? Sure, back in the 60s and early 70s most of the violence came from the left. That was a good long time ago. In recent decades, it is the right's extreme that is far more likely to go violent.

There was a real spiral of violence in the early 90s that peaked with Waco, Ruby Ridge and OKC. Clinton's primary response was to direct the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies to use less violent and confrontational tactics, to avoid the spiral of violence by not responding to violence with violence.

Since September 11, 2001 the government response has been preemptive intelligence. One is supposed to wiretap and infiltrate any terrorist group before it launches an attack. The right has held that such intelligence gathering is more important than civil liberties. The left has attempted to defend constitutional rights.

At least until the groups considering violence are from the right.

Reality check here?

Bob, you overlooked or forgot about the LA riots during the early 90's.

Originally Posted by Texas Curl

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Nobody could have made up the Hutaree cult -- the group in Michigan that toyed with explosives and the idea of setting up IEDs to kill cops in America. So far they seem a decidedly right-wing group, probably an offshoot of some militia.

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100401/NEWS16/4010369

sorry to upset your narrative, but the only discernable political affiliation of this group is with the democrats.

Wiki has their philosophy as distinctly Christian rather than Republican or Democratic. The ultimate enemy is the Antichrist, who is working to destroy the US Constitution and UN Declaration of Human Rights. Members mostly register as independents with one Democrat. Their leader is a Ron Paul fan, while they are angry at things Obama is doing.

I'm not totally surprised that a group rejecting the US government would reject both major parties. In general, I would associate armed apocalyptic Christian militants with the right more than the left, but I'm not sure I get their platform well enough to pin them for sure.

In their own words, from Hutaree.com...

About Us

HUTAREE; Christian Warrior

As christians we all are a part of the Souls of the Body of Christ, the one true church of Christ. Not any specific man made building or any man controlled organization. This is the belief of the Hutaree soldier, as should the belief of all followers in Christ be.

We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ. All christians must know this and prepare, just as Christ commanded. Luke 22:35-37, And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?” So they said, “Nothing.” 36, Then he said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37, “For I say to you that this which is written must be accomplished in me: ‘And He was numbered with transgressors,’ For the things concerning Me have an end.” This clearly states the reason for the training and preparation of the Hutaree.

Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment. The only thing on earth to save the testimony and those who follow it, are the members of the testimony, til the return of Christ in the clouds. We, the Hutaree, are prepared to defend all those who belong to Christ and save those who aren’t. We will still spread the word, and fight to keep it, up to the time of the great coming.

Being Hutaree is to stay the Testimony of Christ alive, and follow a motto, John15:13, “Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” We are hoping that through this website we can reach out to those who have not the word of God and those who are lost in there ideas of Christ. Many of the things Christ said would happen have happened and some things are still in the works of happening.

We all must know that we all carry a cross and a soldiers cross is just as heavy as any other. Just as Jesus did we must also carry our cross to our destination our life abounds us to. All people are givin a destination by God’s will and have to continue there walk to there own golgotha. But many people, even christians don’t agree with the things we do but all we have to say is, we will not argue over the Bible, read it for what it is. We believe only what the Bible says and not on only philosophy, as many christians of this day do. Christ is our king of kings and top general of all things, for we are not of this world but we live in it.

The Hutaree will one day see its enemy and meet him on the battlefield if so God wills it. We will reach out to those who are yet blind in the last days of the kingdoms of men and bring them to life in Christ. Daniel 11:32-35, “Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33, “And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 34, “Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join them by intrigue. 35 “And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.”

You can find the news we find in some of the places we have in the information sources section. Also you can get gear from some of the choice places we have on gear links. Thanks for coming to Hutaree.com and please come again. Oh and don’t forget that you can write us through the contact us link on the Hutaree homepage. Once again thanks for visiting Hutaree.com and may Christ bless you widely.

There are clear survivalist messages on the board, and hints of anti-government. If they are or were plotting action against the government, they aren't stupid enough to blatantly call for violence on their web site.

Interestingly, if they are anti government, they are willing to refrence government web pages that might be of help should civilization collapse... assuming the web is still up after civilization collapses.

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

Bob, you overlooked or forgot about the LA riots during the early 90's.

Fair enough. Still, I wouldn't say the left radical spiral of violence is building. I am also not sure that the right radical spiral of violence is surging further than it did during the Waco, Ruby Ridge, OKC era. There is a lot of rhetoric, not all that much violence. I am not ready to push any panic buttons.

I am mildly disappointed in Obama and the federal police agencies in that they seem to be playing the Hutaree incident for publicity. They seem eager to pat themselves on the back and claim credit for keeping the People safe. I would downplay it. The government ought to use minimum force and seek minimum publicity. They don't want to escalate the spiral. They don't want to increase the anger or paranoia of any other borderline groups.

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

Fair enough. Still, I wouldn't say the left radical spiral of violence is building. I am also not sure that the right radical spiral of violence is surging further than it did during the Waco, Ruby Ridge, OKC era. There is a lot of rhetoric, not all that much violence. I am not ready to push any panic buttons.

I am mildly disappointed in Obama and the federal police agencies in that they seem to be playing the Hutaree incident for publicity. They seem eager to pat themselves on the back and claim credit for keeping the People safe. I would downplay it. The government ought to use minimum force and seek minimum publicity. They don't want to escalate the spiral. They don't want to increase the anger or paranoia of any other borderline groups.

If Obama is politically defeated, if HCR is repealed, I'd expect to see some major rioting in the streets.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

4/20 is the birthday of Mohammed. It is also the birthday of someone with the initials AH. I do not mean Alfred Hitchcock.

Far as I know, not a whole lot of people here in the states celebrating those birthdays. In fact, those are two good examples of people who probably shoulda stopped to chill & toke a bowl before going off on some violent plot. (Actually, Muhammed probably did but Mr. H was a poster child for the effects of amphetamine abuse)

Saturday, April 3, 2010, 5:47 PM
Jim Hoft
Vandals threw a brick through GOP Party headquarters.

Another GOP office was attacked in Marion, Ohio last night. The vandals left a threatening note in purple ink saying, “Stop the Right Wing.”
The Marion Star reported:

Two Republican party officials were shocked to hear someone had thrown a brick through a window at their headquarters downtown — with a message directed at stopping conservatism.
“Stop the right wing,” was written in purple ink on a piece of notebook paper.
“The bottom was torn off of it, maybe like they made a mistake or something when they were writing it the first time,” said Kenneth Stiverson, president of the Marion County Republican Club.
Employees at the law offices next door to the headquarters, at 114 S. Main St., called party members to let them know the window had been broken Tuesday.
Police were called and took the brick and note as evidence.
Stiverson said he didn’t think people in Marion would do such a thing. Republican party members who were helping to clean up found the note after they found the brick.
“You hear about this stuff in the big cities,” he said. “I didn’t think there was anyone in Marion that would do anything like that.”

This story didn’t make national headlines for some strange reason?

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

If Obama is politically defeated, if HCR is repealed, I'd expect to see some major rioting in the streets.

Well, you're you. Not so long ago weren't you expecting the Chinese to invade Alaska?

Originally Posted by Texas Curl

your rant about how violence is inappropriate is dodging the actual issue. no one with influence condones violence (except maybe a few of obama's close friends and advisors).

No, it's not dodging the actual issue. No, it's not true that no one with influence condones violence; there are Republican members of Congress who are condoning violence these days and they are certainly not without influence.

i'l say it another way. the reporting of violent right wingers is out of proportion to any actual threat and out of proportion vs the reporting of violent lefties.

No, it is not out of proportion to any actual threat, and there are virtually no violent lefties any more. That wasn't true back in the 1970s, of course, when outfits like the Weathermen and the Symbionese Liberation Army were oprating, so it's not that violence is exclusively a right-wing trait. It's just that that's the only side from which significant threat of violence exists at this time.

Well, perhaps you're not a troll, just ill-informed.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Off to the iggy list, Texas Cur.
[snip]

That's not polite either.

Your Emily Post bot.