Originally Posted by Copperfield

And yet the IRS is purchasing shotguns:

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...1&cck=1&au=&ck=

While you may not believe the IRS is a target, it appears that someone in the IRS does.

That's a law enforcement requirement. I assume the IRS does at least some of their own.

Originally Posted by annla899

From what I've been hearing from those who actually have filed their taxes, many middle-class people are getting bigger refunds than they expected.

Not me. My Federal tax refund was rather piddly. My State tax refund was about average.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

That's a law enforcement requirement. I assume the IRS does at least some of their own.

They do indeed, but usually not with shotguns. It's not just the IRS either. Several other government agencies have been requisitioning firearms and these are agencies that do not traditionally buy such things (the EPA for instance) because they aren't in that line of work. No one would bat an eye if the BATF buys a truck load of glocks.

The agencies with a bit less history of violence buying weapons is something to take notice of however.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

1. See my prior post.
2. The refund amount is due to crashing wages, during the on going "great recession".
3. "I fully indend to break to myth of perpetrated by "big media" that "McWages are a "good thing". I actually heard some dumbfuck economist say on my paranets' Fox network that low wage service jobs were actually good for the USA".
4. I'd like to see that economist live off of $7.2/hr. Oh how I hat FOX....

You got that right. I am making 30% less than what I was making with a full-time job as an independent contractor. I got a nice refund myself.

Originally Posted by annla899

From what I've been hearing from those who actually have filed their taxes, many middle-class people are getting bigger refunds than they expected.

In my case, that is very true! I made about 10 grand less last year than i did the year before, and actually got the biggest tax refunds I've ever got since I've been getting tax refunds! It was a very nice surprise I must say

Originally Posted by stab1969

In my case, that is very true! I made about 10 grand less last year than i did the year before, and actually got the biggest tax refunds I've ever got since I've been getting tax refunds! It was a very nice surprise I must say

Dude, don't let the Obama's know that it pays to make less.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

1. See my prior post.
2. The refund amount is due to crashing wages, during the on going "great recession".
3. "I fully indend to break to myth of perpetrated by "big media" that "McWages are a "good thing". I actually heard some dumbfuck economist say on my paranets' Fox network that low wage service jobs were actually good for the USA".
4. I'd like to see that economist live off of $7.2/hr. Oh how I hat FOX....

I did not realize that we actually have Scrooge-type economists once again arguing that starvation wages are good for the country. I would be interested in the SOB's name. . .

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

I did not realize that we actually have Scrooge-type economists once again arguing that starvation wages are good for the country. I would be interested in the SOB's name. . .

I'd be interested in knowing, Dave, the context in which this statement was made. Low-wage employment is, in fact, good for one important purpose: providing starter jobs for teenagers and very young adults, just entering the work force.

It's a truism that it is dificult to find a job without work experience, and impossible to get work experience without a job. As such, entry-level jobs provide a stepping stone for young people to advance to higher-paying careers.

I know it did for me.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

I'd be interested in knowing, Dave, the context in which this statement was made. Low-wage employment is, in fact, good for one important purpose: providing starter jobs for teenagers and very young adults, just entering the work force.

It's a truism that it is dificult to find a job without work experience, and impossible to get work experience without a job. As such, entry-level jobs provide a stepping stone for young people to advance to higher-paying careers.

I know it did for me.

I find this to be an ageist attitude, everyone who works should get paid a decent "living" minimum wage no matter what age the person is. paying teens crap because they are not independent yet smacks of exploitation.

Originally Posted by Odin

I find this to be an ageist attitude, everyone who works should get paid a decent "living" minimum wage no matter what age the person is. paying teens crap because they are not independent yet smacks of exploitation.

I don't think Roadbldr '59 was saying that, Odin. I think he meant that you need to have lower-end jobs along with higher-end jobs. Start at the bottom and work your way up. Yes, they pay less, but he didn't say that the pay should be exploitive. Just not senior-management level.

Originally Posted by Odin

I find this to be an ageist attitude, everyone who works should get paid a decent "living" minimum wage no matter what age the person is. paying teens crap because they are not independent yet smacks of exploitation.

I disagree... we all have to start somewhere, and if not at an entry-level job, then where? I mean, when I was in college tidying up restrooms in the student union building, do you really think my labor was worth $10/hr rather than $2.50 (in 1978 $$$)? Yet that job gave me enough experience for employers paying $5/hr to trust me with the responsibility of doing a good job for them.

While there are a few teens who are in need of a true living wage-- emancipated minors, for example-- most aren't, at least among the middle class.

They do need to raise minimum wage again. If your job isnt in walking distance the gas prices are a pay decrease.

Also hello everyone, It's good to finally participate in these discussions since I first read T4T in 1997. As much as you guys seem to disagree it gives us fence sitters a well rounded view of the country at large.

Originally Posted by Yorick's Skull

They do need to raise minimum wage again. If your job isnt in walking distance the gas prices are a pay decrease.

Also hello everyone, It's good to finally participate in these discussions since I first read T4T in 1997. As much as you guys seem to disagree it gives us fence sitters a well rounded view of the country at large.

Hello to you, too.

Originally Posted by Yorick's Skull

They do need to raise minimum wage again. If your job isnt in walking distance the gas prices are a pay decrease.

Also hello everyone, It's good to finally participate in these discussions since I first read T4T in 1997. As much as you guys seem to disagree it gives us fence sitters a well rounded view of the country at large.

Welcome!

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

I'd be interested in knowing, Dave, the context in which this statement was made. Low-wage employment is, in fact, good for one important purpose: providing starter jobs for teenagers and very young adults, just entering the work force.

The context was something along the lines of "the current trend of low paying jobs, replacing higher paying jobs was an economic plus." He was defending "wage arbritage."

It's a truism that it is dificult to find a job without work experience, and impossible to get work experience without a job. As such, entry-level jobs provide a stepping stone for young people to advance to higher-paying careers.

I know it did for me.

Ditto. When I was in high school, of course I didn't expect anything but minimum wage pay. Of to go back further, most likely less than minimum wage whan I was a paper boy.

To Kaiser2d, sorry, I can't remember that guy's name. The interview on Fox just blew my mind away. Amazing, a relic from the Gilded Age.

The characterization of a job as "entry level" or "lower paid" is relative, not absolute. The existence of such employment is not made possible by a decline in median wages paid for all work, nor do such jobs cease to exist when median wages rise. In fact, there were more entry level jobs available back in the 1960s, when real wages were overall much higher than now, than today. Entry-level jobs back then were quite well paid compared to entry-level jobs now in constant dollars, but they were lower paid than more experienced employment then.

The argument presented is specious.

I interpreted the comment as praise for the replacement of millions of industrial jobs by millions of fast food jobs. I am unable to feel any enthusiasm for that. I had students who worked as auto workers during summers in college. I doubt they could find those jobs now. (Actually, Roadbldr, the one I'm thinking of is exactly your age.)

At my first job (spring and summer of 1978), I was definitely paid "under the table" and probably less than minimum wage.

Still, it was a lot more money than I was used to having in my pocket.

#1000 !!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

I'd be interested in knowing, Dave, the context in which this statement was made. Low-wage employment is, in fact, good for one important purpose: providing starter jobs for teenagers and very young adults, just entering the work force.

It's a truism that it is dificult to find a job without work experience, and impossible to get work experience without a job. As such, entry-level jobs provide a stepping stone for young people to advance to higher-paying careers.

I know it did for me.

What do you think about no-wage jobs? ie internships. Apparently Obama is going to make a big deal about getting for-profit companies to cease offering unpaid internships. It is hypocritical not to include non-profits IMHO. If it is exploitative in both cases. And, as you can imagine, Obama's Organizing for America offered unpaid internships during his campaign and is still offering them today, and they don't even pay expenses. Interns for me but not for thee. http://bit.ly/aaBAyp

Our company always pays its interns. I have never understood how anyone could justify doing otherwise.

James50

Originally Posted by James50

What do you think about no-wage jobs? ie internships. Apparently Obama is going to make a big deal about getting for-profit companies to cease offering unpaid internships. It is hypocritical not to include non-profits IMHO. If it is exploitative in both cases. And, as you can imagine, Obama's Organizing for America offered unpaid internships during his campaign and is still offering them today, and they don't even pay expenses. Interns for me but not for thee. http://bit.ly/aaBAyp

Our company always pays its interns. I have never understood how anyone could justify doing otherwise.

James50

So does our agency, and every other I've ever worked for. I was a paid intern for a public utility in Southern California in the early 80s, and the pay was, in fact, handsome. I learned a lot.

I'm not certain how I feel about no-wage internships... have never really had any experience with them, and as such not given them much thought. Taking a first stab at it, I would say that if they're for a short length of time, and teach information and skills invaluable to a student in their future career I'd say they're ok... functioning essentially the same as a college class. However I can also see where they might cross the line into exploitation, too.

Originally Posted by James50

What do you think about no-wage jobs? ie internships. Apparently Obama is going to make a big deal about getting for-profit companies to cease offering unpaid internships. It is hypocritical not to include non-profits IMHO. If it is exploitative in both cases. And, as you can imagine, Obama's Organizing for America offered unpaid internships during his campaign and is still offering them today, and they don't even pay expenses. Interns for me but not for thee. http://bit.ly/aaBAyp

Our company always pays its interns. I have never understood how anyone could justify doing otherwise.

James50

I see unpaid internships as deepening class divisions. A lot of prestigious internships are unpaid, so of course the youth taking them come from advantaged families. On the other hand, nonprofits tend to be short on cash, so I can understand why they would resort to them.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I see unpaid internships as deepening class divisions. A lot of prestigious internships are unpaid, so of course the youth taking them come from advantaged families. On the other hand, nonprofits tend to be short on cash, so I can understand why they would resort to them.

The other problem regarding for-profit, unpaid internships is that they've replaced entry-level positions.

Many years ago I had an unpaid internship with a nonprofit. It was during the summer and I still could work another job. Of course, there were summer jobs then.

I agree about class divisions.

Time magazine, April 12, 2010

Article about internships. Apparently mid-career people are doing unpaid work as interns. The article brings up the possibility of exploitation and mentions a Facebook group called Interns Must Be Paid.

http://www.crashtheteaparty.org/

It is hard to know how seriously to take this, but whoever posted this web page represents some group of people who want to infiltrate and discredit the Tea Party movement. Watch for the political theater if instigated by these provocateurs. Be very skeptical of reports about the any connection between violence and the Tea Parties.

James50