Originally Posted by James50

http://www.crashtheteaparty.org/

It is hard to know how seriously to take this, but whoever posted this web page represents some group of people who want to infiltrate and discredit the Tea Party movement. Watch for the political theater if instigated by these provocateurs. Be very skeptical of reports about the any connection between violence and the Tea Parties.

James50

This makes me think of the folks who respond to "Nigerian Royalty who need help moving their funds to the USA" scams. These folks respond and then play with the scam artists. The goal is to get the scam artists to do all kinds of crazy stuff and record themselves on film.

There's something that goes against my grain when one misrepresents oneself in order to humiliate or put down another person or group. And yeah, at the same time I can see that certain folks sort of deserve whatever they get.

I wonder if the same amount of energy was put into an upfront effort to counter something abusive - i.e. in the case of the Nigerian scam, spend one's time getting the word out to potential scam victims; in the case of the Tea Party, perhaps showing up at their rallies with a counter rally ...

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

I'm not certain how I feel about no-wage internships... have never really had any experience with them, and as such not given them much thought. Taking a first stab at it, I would say that if they're for a short length of time, and teach information and skills invaluable to a student in their future career I'd say they're ok... functioning essentially the same as a college class. However I can also see where they might cross the line into exploitation, too.

Some of the issue, too, is that there are certain degrees and certifications that require internships...so it opens up the opportunity for companies to offer unpaid internships, knowing that students need the work to finish their schooling.

I agree with Wonkette that unpaid internships are also culprits in deepening class divisions. For example, social work and clinical psychology require a specific number of internship hours for degree and certification completion. Stipends are offered in certain cases, but are nominal at best. (Say, $600 for 750 hours of internship). One of my relatives finished his Master's degree in Psych., but is not in a financial position to quit his full-time job to complete the hours necessary to pursue state certification. His job will not allow him a short-term leave-of-absence, because the degree is not related to his job. Of course, this is a job he held to maintain financial stability while working through school...

...vicious cycle.

Similar situation with another family member, who opted to take internship hours on the weekends...which essentially severed her connection to her husband and family for months.

Originally Posted by James50

http://www.crashtheteaparty.org/

It is hard to know how seriously to take this, but whoever posted this web page represents some group of people who want to infiltrate and discredit the Tea Party movement. Watch for the political theater if instigated by these provocateurs. Be very skeptical of reports about the any connection between violence and the Tea Parties.

James50

Reading this websites blog is just like reading the Huffington Post. Not one intelligent blogger. President Clinton and James Carville will have a lot to answer for if this becomes what the website is saying.

http://sonoranweeklyreview.com/clint...get-tea-party/

Originally Posted by wtrg8

Reading this websites blog is just like reading the Huffington Post. Not one intelligent blogger. President Clinton and James Carville will have a lot to answer for if this becomes what the website is saying.

http://sonoranweeklyreview.com/clint...get-tea-party/

"Recent news on Andrew Breitbart’s “Big Government” and “The Drudge Report”"

Consider the sources, and say no more.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

"Recent news on Andrew Breitbart’s “Big Government” and “The Drudge Report”"

Consider the sources, and say no more.

Well, someone on your side is scared for a reason.

Originally Posted by wtrg8

Reading this websites blog is just like reading the Huffington Post. Not one intelligent blogger.

Your pronoun is confusing. "This websites blog" is referring to this website (4T) or the link you inserted?

James50

Originally Posted by BookishXer

Some of the issue, too, is that there are certain degrees and certifications that require internships...so it opens up the opportunity for companies to offer unpaid internships, knowing that students need the work to finish their schooling.

I agree with Wonkette that unpaid internships are also culprits in deepening class divisions. For example, social work and clinical psychology require a specific number of internship hours for degree and certification completion. Stipends are offered in certain cases, but are nominal at best. (Say, $600 for 750 hours of internship). One of my relatives finished his Master's degree in Psych., but is not in a financial position to quit his full-time job to complete the hours necessary to pursue state certification. His job will not allow him a short-term leave-of-absence, because the degree is not related to his job. Of course, this is a job he held to maintain financial stability while working through school...

...vicious cycle.

Similar situation with another family member, who opted to take internship hours on the weekends...which essentially severed her connection to her husband and family for months.

I see this issue pretty starkly. Unpaid internships offer too big an invitation to abuse. The wage and hour folks should be all over it, and there is no reason to excuse non-profits. Exploitation is exploitation no matter who is doing it.

James50

Originally Posted by James50

Your pronoun is confusing. "This websites blog" is referring to this website (4T) or the link you inserted?

James50

Link you inserted.

Originally Posted by James50

http://www.crashtheteaparty.org/

It is hard to know how seriously to take this, but whoever posted this web page represents some group of people who want to infiltrate and discredit the Tea Party movement. Watch for the political theater if instigated by these provocateurs. Be very skeptical of reports about the any connection between violence and the Tea Parties.

James50

James, it was a young conservative activist who pretended to be a pimp and brought a friend pretending to be a hooker to discredit Acorn The Acorn personnel made the mistake of being polite and thereby destroyed their organization. No left wing group would be dumb enough to put up anything like that. It is a right-wing scam, designed to pre-empt criticism of tea party violence. I'm shocked that you could fall for it.

Originally Posted by James50

http://www.crashtheteaparty.org/

It is hard to know how seriously to take this, but whoever posted this web page represents some group of people who want to infiltrate and discredit the Tea Party movement. Watch for the political theater if instigated by these provocateurs. Be very skeptical of reports about the any connection between violence and the Tea Parties.

James50

I would not take this seriously. The pronouncements on the home page are all obvious stereotypes.

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

It is a right-wing scam, designed to pre-empt criticism of tea party violence. I'm shocked that you could fall for it.

I hope I have not fallen for anything. I am trying to show that much of what you hear is political theater. Indeed, I am counseling to be careful of accepting anything at face value even if it accords with your political beliefs. The "dirty tricks" folks exist on both sides of the spectrum.

As I have said before, there is, as yet, no spiral of violence. There are partisans on both sides that want to discredit the other. No matter whether this site is a serious left winger or a right winger who is getting too smart for his own good, be careful of what you believe.

James50

Originally Posted by wtrg8

Well, someone on your side is scared for a reason.

No, someone on the other side -- at the wacko end of the other side, too -- is claiming someone on my side is scared.

James, what are you saying? That the threats and vandalism, the illiterate signs and the crazy, tin-foil-hat and/or racist ideas expressed at Tea Party rallies, the militia movement, the Exodus organization, are all left-wing disinformation? Was George Tiller murdered by a left-winger trying to discredit the anti-abortion movement? Was the OKC bombing a left-wing job in disguise? Where do you draw the line of credibility?

Ive got a crazy idea for us to try out....Turn off the news. Its not even news anymore anyway. Its all opinion and vacuous faces.
There was a time long a go when we only got the news once a day and for some reason we got more out of those 2 hours than we do watching these 24 hour news channels for , well, 24 hours!
We need a "newsout". It would be a week where no one watches the news. Just to give us all room to breath!

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

No, someone on the other side -- at the wacko end of the other side, too -- is claiming someone on my side is scared.

James, what are you saying? That the threats and vandalism, the illiterate signs and the crazy, tin-foil-hat and/or racist ideas expressed at Tea Party rallies, the militia movement, the Exodus organization, are all left-wing disinformation? Was George Tiller murdered by a left-winger trying to discredit the anti-abortion movement? Was the OKC bombing a left-wing job in disguise? Where do you draw the line of credibility?

I am saying there is no spiral of violence, that there are crazies on both sides, and we would all be wise to question reports of violence and racism at Tea Party events. And if these untoward events actually do occur, try to figure out the identity of who is doing them. I am not denying the existence of the militia movement, but I do not think they are as dangerous as you do. BTW, if you want to see some actual tin foil hats, look at this montage from the Bush years of the left wing crazies:

http://bit.ly/a8Btvp

James50

Originally Posted by James50

I am saying there is no spiral of violence, that there are crazies on both sides, and we would all be wise to question reports of violence and racism at Tea Party events. And if these untoward events actually do occur, try to figure out the identity of who is doing them.

The problem with that is that the link you posted, if taken seriously, amounts to "questioning" the reports by reference to unknowables so that the questions can never be answered. No matter how much craziness we see, it can all be explained away by reference to hypothetical left-wing attempts at making the Tea Party and other parts of the extreme right look bad, and if this is done on no stronger basis than that such disinformation attempts might happen, and we can't absolutely prove to the contrary in any specific instance, then we are left in a state of permanent confusion.

That's why I asked where you draw the line of credibility, and you have not yet answered the question.

I am not denying the existence of the militia movement, but I do not think they are as dangerous as you do.

Hopefully you're right, but if so, it will be because, when push comes to shove, they have better sense and stronger urges to self-preservation than acting on their rhetoric would entail.

BTW, if you want to see some actual tin foil hats, look at this montage from the Bush years of the left wing crazies:

http://bit.ly/arJOLh

James50

I can't access that web site at work, so I'll have to wait until this evening to evaluate it.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

That's why I asked where you draw the line of credibility, and you have not yet answered the question.

I admit my belief in the accuracy of most news on this subject is pretty low. I have set a high bar for believability. But multiple reports from multiple sources accompanied by actual video is where I would come down as to credibility. Both sides have a motivation to make the other seem violent and crazy. There are enough actual incidents to keep the buzz up, but I think our politics is still thankfully non-violent. I hope it stays that way.

James50

Just in case anyone is interested, the person who started crashtheteaparty.org has surfaced. From the right wing pajamasmedia.com:

"crashtheteaparty.org was not created by a Republican or an independent, but instead by someone with a red-tinted sickle to grind. In this instance, the suspect appears to be a conspiratorial 36-year-old from the Pacific Northwest named Jason Levin. He started promoting the site on April 8 on his personal Twitter account, but failed to do an adequate job of covering up his personal information when he registered the domain five days earlier. He later attempted to cover his tracks, but the original information was quickly disseminated around the internet by those who wondered who was behind the group.

When contacted by Pajamas Media, Levin confirmed his involvement in the effort, stating, “Our stated intentions, or ‘manifesto’ as some of the conservative bloggers have called it is absolutely sincere.” He claimed to have operatives in tea party groups in every major city.

Levin concluded with a taunt: “Good luck stopping us. See you on 4/15.”

More here: http://bit.ly/91Flph

Is this report believable? Probably, but make up your own mind. FWIW, there are links to the Washington Examiner. Is it much of a threat? Probably not.

James50

Well, Levin seems to me to be carrying coals to Newcastle, but whatever.

James, that link you presented earlier that was to show a left-wing tin-foi-hat crowd instead showed a guy dancing to a song in French. I think it was the wrong link.

I'm of the belief that the Tea Party is young enough that it's too soon to judge what they represent. There are certainly still disagreements on whether it is to remain a grass roots effort or whether the establishment Republicans might be able to co-opt it. Can the grass rooters create something truly new? Will attempting to attract Tea Party votes rejuvenate the Republicans?

Far too soon to tell.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

Well, Levin seems to me to be carrying coals to Newcastle, but whatever.

James, that link you presented earlier that was to show a left-wing tin-foi-hat crowd instead showed a guy dancing to a song in French. I think it was the wrong link.

Sorry bout that. That link was for the Megasaeculum thread about the time of the anti-popes in Avignon. Davey's Dance Blog has many more entries. I thought it was quirky fun.

Here is the real one: http://bit.ly/a8Btvp

(I will edit yesterdays post.)

James50

Originally Posted by James50

Sorry bout that. That link was for the Megasaeculum thread about the time of the anti-popes in Avignon. Davey's Dance Blog has many more entries. I thought it was quirky fun.

Here is the real one: http://bit.ly/a8Btvp

(I will edit yesterdays post.)

James50

Yikes! I guess you go far enough down either road it get scary. I do have to remind my self that the left did bust out the swastikas and Ken doll nooses too. NO ones hands are clean

Originally Posted by James50

http://www.crashtheteaparty.org/

It is hard to know how seriously to take this, but whoever posted this web page represents some group of people who want to infiltrate and discredit the Tea Party movement. Watch for the political theater if instigated by these provocateurs. Be very skeptical of reports about the any connection between violence and the Tea Parties.

James50

I kinda figured that the tea party had been infiltrated when Palin ran out in front of it. I don't really see how the tea party could be get to this point without being infiltrated by FBI and/or CIA.

Anyone else afraid that the recent disgustingly Orwellian "Immigration" bill in Arizona that has just passed is going to result in violence when some idiot racist cop starts harassing Hispanic US citizens because they assume Brown Skin = Illegal?

No, Odin, not afraid - absolutely certain this is going to happen. And American citizens of Hispanic descent will start carrying their official papers around with them at all times, like apartheid-era black South Africans.

There will probably also be scandals about some cop taking someone's papers and then running them in for not having them. Not to mention the entire "Born in East L.A." scenario - a very, very pre-seasonal movie.

And Hispanics of all variations of citizenship (citizen, green card, etc) will avoid the police, which will probably lead to cases of "Well, he tried to run away from me, so he had to be a criminal, so I shot him."

It will certainly lead to serious under-reporting of crime within the community, since not only the criminals, but the witnesses and complainants will be under threat of deportation, justified or not.

I suppose the upside of this is that the guy who mows your lawn will now be an English-speaking American citizen.

Originally Posted by Odin

Anyone else afraid that the recent disgustingly Orwellian "Immigration" bill in Arizona that has just passed is going to result in violence when some idiot racist cop starts harassing Hispanic US citizens because they assume Brown Skin = Illegal?

Unfortunately, the violence is already there, the border is broken and the citizens (read: voters) are livid. This may be the trigger needed to get sane action by the Feds. If not, then your analysis is correct.