Whose? Gods?Originally Posted by ziggyX65
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
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Whose? Gods?
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."
I suggest you read up on how hate radio incited the Rwandan Genocide.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
That's what actually bothers me about Beck. This guy may really believe in all of the crazy things he says.
However, I still think he's motivated a great deal by the almighty $.
I think Palin is pretty cool. She seems like a nice, motherly seeming woman. I haven't really been following what she believes in, but I read "You Betcha" which has all her "funny" quotations. Actually, compared to George Bush's book of "funnies", she rarely makes huge mistakes. She probably doesn't believe in pacifism and is probably pro-death penalty, since she's a Republican, so I doubt I'd see eye to eye with her.
Debol,
I'd be interested in your perspective - you seem to be somewhat conservative, yet rational, as opposed to some on this forum.
What do you think that Beck's message is? Can you sum him up for me in several bullet points? What are the fundamental principles behind his philosophy?
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."
Even for you Odin, this is over the top. Have you heard Glenn Beck call his opponents "roaches"? Is the radio state controlled? Has he incited anyone to violence? The man gets up and asks people to get their own houses in order and that somehow is analogous to Rwanda?
I think you are the one who needs to read up on the Rwandan genocide.
James50
Last edited by James50; 08-30-2010 at 08:59 AM.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
'If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.' - Noam Chomsky
Agree to disagree and then thank your lucky stripes you still have that ability in the USA.
Last edited by wtrg8; 08-30-2010 at 09:11 AM.
I thought people in the US have (limited) freedom of speech, in free speech zones, but not freedom of expression.
The courts have generally interpreted "expression" to be a form of speech, subject to the same time-and-place restriction as actual speech (i.e. inciting a riot or revolution, "fire" in a crowded theater, et cetera).
Anyway, whatever.
Yes, I agree.Beck, Palin and those on the other side of the political spectrum have the freedom to gather peacefully and speak what they believe.
Years ago, perhaps 15 or 20 years ago, a KKK demonstration was planned for a suburb in Illinois. This wasn’t the Skokie demonstration of the late ‘70s, but it roused controversy nonetheless.
I was in my early twenties at the time and thought the best way to handle the KKK and their rally was to fully ignore them. I thought, “no attention, no momentum.” I was then gently but effectively censured by a number of people, and I’m specifically remembering the words of a Jewish man much older than myself. Sometimes ignoring isn’t strong enough a response. Sometimes verbal or physical defiance is necessary. I was humbled.
Please know I’m not comparing Beck’s rally to a KKK meeting. I don’t believe it was an intentionally fascist-leaning attempt or that it was akin to a KKK or neo-Nazi rally.
However, I do believe we have the responsibility to discern what the message is. In this given situation, I was more concerned with the intent to elicit an emotional response from a large crowd through easily distorted terms such as “honor” and “restoration” than with Beck or Palin’s professional aspirations. We are an increasingly emotionally vulnerable population. Though not yet as desperate as some societies which have tumbled into vile forms of cruelty such a genocide, the more vulnerable we feel, the closer we can become to making emotionally-driven decisions.
Others might disagree with me, and I respect that, I do. But I still feel we have to be careful not to be manipulated. By either side.
I fully agree. Looking beneath the surface, can be a sign of maturity. When actions and past attitudes don't match the words, then it is our responsibility to expose the discrepancy. Many a hen has been saved by not listening to the wooing of the fox.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a
No, Beck's.
Inciting a revolution?
Yes, if you encouraged your countrymen to rise up and bear arms against your government in an attempt to violently overthrow it, that is what you are doing. That is a form of speech or expression which is *not* protected.
So, like anarchists and people that "need" guns in case they have to overthrow the gov't if it ever became unjust.
In reality, this is a significant reason why the Second Amendment was put in place. And many of the writings of the nation's founders specifically referred to an armed citizenry as a last defense against a despotic and tyrannical government.
Frankly as long as we can still change the government at the ballot box in reasonably fair elections, we're nowhere near that point despite what a few rabble-rousing "militia" types say. But the founders (and no, I'm not deifying them) did know enough about the history of governments tending to become more oppressive over time -- until the next revolution.
I assume as a pacifist in the extreme, you would always prefer to surrender the guns to the authorities no matter how oppressive they were?
I think so.
Bill Hicks said it best, 'Think for yourself, question Authority'.Yes, I agree.
Years ago, perhaps 15 or 20 years ago, a KKK demonstration was planned for a suburb in Illinois. This wasn’t the Skokie demonstration of the late ‘70s, but it roused controversy nonetheless.
I was in my early twenties at the time and thought the best way to handle the KKK and their rally was to fully ignore them. I thought, “no attention, no momentum.” I was then gently but effectively censured by a number of people, and I’m specifically remembering the words of a Jewish man much older than myself. Sometimes ignoring isn’t strong enough a response. Sometimes verbal or physical defiance is necessary. I was humbled.
Please know I’m not comparing Beck’s rally to a KKK meeting. I don’t believe it was an intentionally fascist-leaning attempt or that it was akin to a KKK or neo-Nazi rally.
However, I do believe we have the responsibility to discern what the message is. In this given situation, I was more concerned with the intent to elicit an emotional response from a large crowd through easily distorted terms such as “honor” and “restoration” than with Beck or Palin’s professional aspirations. We are an increasingly emotionally vulnerable population. Though not yet as desperate as some societies which have tumbled into vile forms of cruelty such a genocide, the more vulnerable we feel, the closer we can become to making emotionally-driven decisions.
Others might disagree with me, and I respect that, I do. But I still feel we have to be careful not to be manipulated. By either side.
That phrase has become overused.
Any amount of using it is overuse to someone who prefers blind allegiance to authority.
I don't believe in blind allegiance to anything. I just don't like to cause trouble.
Well said!Yes, I agree.
Years ago, perhaps 15 or 20 years ago, a KKK demonstration was planned for a suburb in Illinois. This wasn’t the Skokie demonstration of the late ‘70s, but it roused controversy nonetheless.
I was in my early twenties at the time and thought the best way to handle the KKK and their rally was to fully ignore them. I thought, “no attention, no momentum.” I was then gently but effectively censured by a number of people, and I’m specifically remembering the words of a Jewish man much older than myself. Sometimes ignoring isn’t strong enough a response. Sometimes verbal or physical defiance is necessary. I was humbled.
Please know I’m not comparing Beck’s rally to a KKK meeting. I don’t believe it was an intentionally fascist-leaning attempt or that it was akin to a KKK or neo-Nazi rally.
However, I do believe we have the responsibility to discern what the message is. In this given situation, I was more concerned with the intent to elicit an emotional response from a large crowd through easily distorted terms such as “honor” and “restoration” than with Beck or Palin’s professional aspirations. We are an increasingly emotionally vulnerable population. Though not yet as desperate as some societies which have tumbled into vile forms of cruelty such a genocide, the more vulnerable we feel, the closer we can become to making emotionally-driven decisions.
Others might disagree with me, and I respect that, I do. But I still feel we have to be careful not to be manipulated. By either side.
"Freedom is not something that the rulers "give" the population...people have immense power potential. It is ultimately their attitudes, behavior, cooperation, and obedience that supply the power to all rulers and hierarchical systems..." - Gene Sharp
"The Occupy protesters are acting like citizens, believing they have the power to change things...that humble people can acquire power when they convince themselves they can." - William Greider
Refusal to confront abuse of authority is, for all real-world purposes, the same as blind allegiance to it -- or at least, passive acceptance of anything they choose to do.
Aww, Tone. You keep paying me compliments on my posts and I'll have to send you flowers. Or a gift card.