Don't know if this means anything because we really don't know yet if this was a politically motivated killing, but Congresswoman Giffords was one of the 20 democrats who did not vote for Nancy Pelosi for speaker. She voted for my congressman - John Lewis.
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
-Using the self-proclaimed One-Eyed God of Wisdom's reasoning, that means she was shot by Progressives, right? Sort of a Leftie on Leftie Night of the Long Knives, right?Originally Posted by James50
She was on Palin's political hit list last fall:
http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=439x139508
Palin has blood on her hands, now.Ann Kirkpatrick (Ariz.), Harry E. Mitchell (Ariz.), Gabrielle Giffords (Ariz.), John Salazar (Colo.), Betsy Markey (Colo.), Allen Boyd (Fla.), Suzanne M. Kosmas (Fla.), Baron P. Hill (Ind.), Earl Pomeroy (N.D.), Charlie Wilson (Ohio), John Boccieri (Ohio), Kathy Dahlkemper (Pa.), Christopher Carney (Pa.), John M. Spratt, Jr. (S.C.), Tom Perriello (Va.), Alan B. Mollohan (W.Va.), and Nick J. Rahall II (W.Va.).
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Odin, not now.
EOM
I Am A Child of God/Nature/The Universe
I Think Globally and Act Individually(and possibly, voluntarily join-together with Others)
I Pray for World Peace & I Choose Less-Just Say: "NO!, Thank You."
Odin, you know better than that. A political hit list isn't a literal one. I'm sure Palin would decry this violence as much as anyone.
Let's not jump to conclusions and make this worse. That would be far too 3T of us, and exactly what some would want us to do.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." —Albert Einstein
"The road to perdition has ever been accompanied by lip service to an ideal." —Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” —Albert Einstein
I do not know who the killer is, but Palin's list was criticized for having targets on it. Check the link.
I certainly have $100 to bet against anyone who thinks this has anything to do with the Mexican drug cartel.
David Kaiser '47
My blog: History Unfolding
My book: The Road to Dallas: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy
I federal judge was there and confirmed killed. He could have been the target. Judges have had a bullseye on them for years now, but by a person that he/or she rulled against.
Initially, the questions I ask when reviewing any saeculur event: What did the decision makers know about the cyclical time, when did they know it, and how did they act on that knowledge? Then I can ask the question, "what was their purpose?" I take extra special notice when reviewing events before Generations was released by Strauss-Howe.
Seriously?
By all accounts she was a conservative democrat with a tough border policy. It could be someone hired by a drug cartel for all we know.
The reports are conflicting official press conference is for 2pm local time. She was shot point blank in the head. I wont be expecting good news. NBC just reported that a federal judge was killed as well. And there could have been as many as 17 others shot.
A sad day for my state and the nation.
Some data from a wire service account:
The shooting comes amid a highly charged political environment that has seen several dangerous threats against lawmakers but nothing that reached the point of actual violence.
A San Francisco man upset with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's support of health care reform pleaded guilty to threatening the Democratic congresswoman and her family, calling her directly on March 25 and threatening to destroy her Northern California home if she voted for health care reform.
In July, a California man known for his anger over left-leaning politics engaged in a shootout with highway patrol officers after planning an attack on the ACLU and another nonprofit group. The man said he wanted to "start a revolution" by killing people at the ACLU and the Tides Foundation.
Giffords herself has drawn the ire of the right, especially for her support of the health care bill from politicians like Sarah Palin.
Her Tucson office was vandalized a few hours after the House vote to approve the health care law in March, with someone either kicking or shooting out a glass door and window.
Despite the animosity she has generated from the right, Giffords describes herself as a former Republican and current Blue Dog Democrat.
"You know, actually as a former Republican, you know, I consider myself someone who is pretty in the middle, I'm a blue dog Democrat, and one that is interested in making sure that our country maintains our prosperity and frankly, our superiority over other countries and that's where we look at these threat, obviously our defense budget, our level of education," she said in an interview with Fox this week.
David Kaiser '47
My blog: History Unfolding
My book: The Road to Dallas: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy
Ok conference rendered no news. There is one from the hospital coming.
The shooter is a 22 year old male he shot 18 including several high ranking individuals like Giffords and the Judge. They haven't released a motive or anything yet. Full press conference is at 6 I think we will learn the details then.
Oh man,
One confirmed death. described as a 9 year old girl.
Live feed from Tucson.
http://www.ustream.tv/cbsnews
Last edited by Deb C; 01-08-2011 at 05:36 PM.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a
Deb, have you heard about the shooter? The only rumor I can find is that he's a 22-year old who served in Afghanistan. It could end up being no more than PTSD.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." —Albert Einstein
"The road to perdition has ever been accompanied by lip service to an ideal." —Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” —Albert Einstein
No, just that his family lives on the north side of Tucson.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a
Daily Kos: New Arizona gun law allows concealed weapons without permit
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a
I realize no motive has been given yet, but if the congresswomen was shot point blank in the head, the shooter was obviously at close range, and it wasn't a case of the shooter just shooting randomly in a crowd. I have to wonder why all those others were shot too, especially a child? That part doesn't make sense to me. Generally in the case of someone trying to assassinate a specific person they don't open fire on a crowd. But then if you shot someone, you are obviously crazy anyway.
Not blaming, just sharing news from The Hill.
Report: Tea Party Gifford's enemy, father says
By Peter Schroeder - 01/08/11 03:08 PM ET
The father of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), who was shot in the head Saturday, told The New York Post that the "whole tea party" was her enemy.
"They always get threatened," said Spencer Giffords.
Giffords was shot at close range along with several other people at a public event outside a Tucson grocery store. She is reportedly in surgery at a local hospital.
Giffords also reported the door to her Tucson office was smashed by vandals after she voted in favor of healthcare reform in March.
Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips condemned the attacks, but warned supporters that the Tea Party movement would be blamed by political opponents.
"While we need to take a moment to extend our sympathies to the families of those who died, we cannot allow the hard left to do what it tried to do in 1995 after the Oklahoma City bombing," he said.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a
Jared Lee Loughner was the shooter. This is his YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4
He appears to be an anti-government anarchist.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." —Albert Einstein
"The road to perdition has ever been accompanied by lip service to an ideal." —Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” —Albert Einstein
The Telegraph: American congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in head
Miss Giffords had been named in March as a political campaign target for conservatives in November’s elections by former Alaska governor Sarah Palin for her strong support for the health reforms of President Barack Obama.
Mrs Palin had published a “target map” on her website using images of gun sights to identify 20 House Democrats, including Miss Giffords, for backing the new health care law.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Check this out. From Gabrielle Gifford's own mouth about being on Sarah Palin's hit list.
Representative Gabrielle Giffords on Violent Political Rhetoric, March 2010
January 8, 2011 in Students
“Are you afraid? Are you fearful today?”
“You know, I’m not. We’ve had hundreds and hundreds of protesters over the course of the last several months. Our office corner has become a place where the Tea Party has congregated. And the rhetoric has become incredibly heated. Not just the calls, but the emails, the slurs. So things have really gotten spun up. But you gotta think about it. Our democracy is a light, a beacon really around the world because we effect change at the ballot box, and not because of these outbursts — of violence in certain cases, and the yelling, and it’s just … you know, change is important, it’s a part of our process, but it’s really important that we focus on the fact that we have a democratic process.”
“I think it’s important for all leaders, not just leaders of the Republican Party or the Democratic Party … community leaders, figures in our community to say, ‘Look, we can’t stand for this.’ I mean, this is a situation where people really need to realize that this rhetoric, and firing people up, and even things … For example, we’re on Sarah Palin’s targeted list, but the way she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gunsight over our district. And when people do that, they’ve gotta realize that there’s consequences to that action.”
“In the years that some of my colleagues have served, twenty, thirty years, they’ve never seen it like this. We have to work out our problems by negotiating, working together, hopefully Democrats and Republicans.”
–Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, March 25, 2010.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a
From SMBIVA:
andEvents like this seem to be so useful for all of us that perhaps it's no wonder they happen so often. I mean, if you look at the thing sociobiologically.
Of course it's quite possible that the guy was a Teabagger. Arizona, and all that. He's certainly not likely to have been a Pwog, for sure -- they're all talk. And there are a lot more highly motivated right-wing crazies than left-wing crazies; we don't seem to have even enough vitality to attract crazy people.
Now I don't approve of shooting legislators. Don't get me wrong. Hell, I wouldn't even shoot Joe Lieberman. There's no point. They just go find another one, without missing a beat, and the supply seems to be endless. That's why only a crazy person would bother to waste the ammo -- if politics really had anything to do with it.
...
But even if he turns out to have been a devoted Teabagger, I'd argue that that doesn't explain why he did what he did -- though it might perhaps explain his choice of targets.
The great American culture medium seems to nourish, every few years, a person who just can't sleep at night until he's blown away a dozen or so strangers....
Being an 'umble obscure person myself, I personally would selfishly prefer that these folks, when they finally snap, should go after notables and officials and celebrities rather than climbing a tower and opening up on ordinary pedestrians like me, innocently going about our pedestrian occasions. At least it takes us out of the line of fire.
Consider: The articles read,Here's Steny Hoyer...“Today’s cowardly attack is ... equally devastating to every American—to everyone who cares about our democracy. Our form of government, like all human things, is imperfect and flawed; but one of its greatest virtues is its power to resolve questions of the greatest import without violence. An attack on a member of that government—of whatever party or whatever views—is an attack on that principle, in which every American has a stake.”Perfect, huh? If it had been half a dozen random Amurricans in a food court, that would have been one thing. But an attack on a member of the government...!
It's amazing how widespread, and widely accepted, this kind of thinking is. To take a random example, there are minatory notices these days, all over the various mass-transit modes that I ride, direly warning me that an assault on a bus driver or a train conductor or a token clerk is a very serious crime, much more serious than an assault on my elderly person would be, and I'd better not even think about it -- though I do think about it, and think about it a lot. Especially the bus drivers -- half bureaucrat, half motorist. Talk about hellspawn.
And then of course there's that business about shooting cops. Shoot a civilian, and take your chances. But shoot a cop, and you'll be hunted to the ends of the earth. Why, I wonder, are cops' and politicians' and, yes, busdrivers' lives, worth more than yours and mine?
Now the crazed Laughner is not exactly a hero of mine, but for Steny Hoyer to call him a coward seems a bit much. Laughner showed up in person, knowing undoubtedly that troops of armed gendarmerie were prowling the streets, as they always and everywhere are these days, and he took his chances at close range. He must surely have known that either he would be killed on the spot, or dispatched leisurely, with all the refinements of medico-legal crypto-sadism, on a gurney in some antiseptic room, watched intently by a ghoulish Presbyterian board of elders trying to conceal their crypto-boners.
Whereas Steny and Obie and Hillary and Co. commit their mass murders by proxy, and never have to worry about the cops, or the needle.
"[Parasite(s)] shot!!"
"little girl also killed"
Any decent people would see it the other way around entirely.
Last edited by Justin '77; 01-08-2011 at 07:31 PM.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch
"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy
"[it] is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky
Absolutely and without a doubt, Palin has blood on her hands.
It doesn't matter whether this shooter was politically motivated; the fact is that Palin, the Tea Party, and the gun-rights extremists have created an environment in which "2nd Amendment Solutions" are plausible, doable, and, it seems, acceptable.
Causes really do lead to effects. Painting a target on a candidate's political district is not always just a metaphor, as I believe we've all seen.
A federal judge and a little girl are among those confirmed dead. The congresswoman is in critical condition.
The last time a congressperson was shot wad during the Awakening, Harvey Milk, IIRC.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Also Representative Leo Ryan, leading up to the Jonestown Massacre. So that would have been...77? 78? and Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone were murdered in 1979.
From what people who know the shooter are saying, he's more of a leftist. For whatever difference (none) that makes.
Last edited by Justin '77; 01-08-2011 at 08:24 PM.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch
"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy
"[it] is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky
