The girl was born 0n 9/11/01, and killed by a domestic terrorist.Originally Posted by ASB65
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The girl was born 0n 9/11/01, and killed by a domestic terrorist.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
This is the best observation so far.
When the left-wing Animal Liberation Front decided to physically attack medical researchers, a slew of legislation followed, and anyone who even peacefully protests against them now can be labeled a "terrorist" and prosecuted.
Anyone who thinks that lawmakers will not now start cracking down on protests (formerly known as "free speech" but now known as "hate speech') against their own kind is kidding themselves.
Is this the new 4T? The people vs their government?
We live in interesting times.
EDIT: Ha! I wrote this while you were editing. We are thinking the same thing.
Though I'm not so sure about Sarah. She may very well become the leader of the If Your Rep Don't Do What You Want You Got The Right To Kill Em movement. And if they DO use the Patriot Act against our own citizens, it just makes her case stronger.
Last edited by The Rani; 01-09-2011 at 12:01 AM.
Yep, I must admit that thought has crossed my mind. If that were to become the case, a good majority of posters on this forum would be on the government watch list. With some of things I've said, this Texas housewife, mother of two could be considered a dangerous suspect and a possible enemy of the state.
I think even the shooter was aware of the post-9/11 environment and that has no illusions that he would be regarded as a terrorist and the effects this would have.
Amongst his last words were:
“If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon. I define terrorist. … if you call me a terrorist then the argument is Ad hominem. You call me a terrorist. Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is ad hominem.”
One thing I find interesting is if he is 21 years old he would be a Millie. His accomplice is supposed to be around 50 years old, so a Boomer. I would say the chances of him being "encouraged" by the much older person are high with the older guy getting away and letting the younger one getting the rap. Is this also a vision of the future?
Now that is chilling. I read that she recently got elected to the student council and a neighbor took her over there to see the congresswomen because this little girl was interested in politics. Sad, very, very sad. My heart goes out to her family. As a mother, I can't even imagine. But it does make me think twice about taking my child to any kind of political rally. And that's even more saddening.
Wasn't something similar going on with that Washington sniper stuff years ago? An old dude and a young one?
Anyway, a Boomer using a Millie to do his/her dirty work is definitely predicted by the 4T stuff, but holy crap is THIS the war????
Its as if that's what they have been trained to do.The Corporate Media is going full power on the "both sides are guilty" BS!!!
I feel the same way. I figured something like this would happen sooner than later.
Generation: Millennial (Gen Y)
A question is if the Patriot Act is now going to be used in force against ordinary American citizens, how will the public react?
Judging by the reaction post-9/11 and the conditioning that has been in place since then to accept security measures and civil rights violations, I would say in the short to medium term they are going to support the government with those who dissent increasingly looked upon as dangerous radicals.
Of course as the economic situation worsens while a nobility forms, maybe eventually (after a lot of pain and agony and civil rights violations) the tide will turn.
But yes, I think it might be time to start being more circumspect about posting and start exercising self-censorship (like China!). My parents are originally from China and constantly warn me not to say too much publicly about politics because it is potentially dangerous. I guess I should have listened to them...
I'm usually at a loss for words on such a tragedy.
This act sounds much like one of the school (Columbine) or college shootings (Virginia Tech), with some brilliant, but mixed-up youth doing the incredible. It's far easier to understand the garden variety of crime: spouse gets angry at cheating spouse and does something drastic. A drug addict sticks up a convenience store, demands cash, and leaves a store clerk with a bullet in his abdominal cavity.
The more that I see of the shooter, I see someone who could have as easily lashed out for right-wing as left-wing "reasons". Much will be revealed in any criminal trial, bit the suspect seems very mixed up.
Much of this work consists of literary classics. To be sure, most people outgrow fantasy; adults might read the Carroll, Baum, and Barrie tales to children. I'm surprised that Don Quixote isn't on the list. A fascination with either Hitler or Marx is troubling, but a fascination with both is simply weird.His YouTube page also listed a series of favorite books. Some were novels about political dystopias — “Animal Farm” by George Orwell, “Brave New World” by Aldous Huxley, “Fahrenheit 451” by Ray Bradbury, and “We the Living” by Ayn Rand.
Others were about falling into fantasy worlds — “Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland” and “Through the Looking-Glass” by Lewis Carroll; “The Wonderful Wizard of Oz” by L. Frank Baum; “Peter Pan” by J. M. Barrie; and “Gulliver’s Travels” by Jonathan Swift.
Still others were a range of political tracts: “The Communist Manifesto” by Karl Marx, “Mein Kampf” by Adolph Hitler, “The Republic” and “Meno” by Plato.
One was a novel about a sane man who is sent to an insane asylum: “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” by Ken Kesey.
Mr. Loughner’s social networking pages suggest that he had grievances against Pima Community College, that he felt cheated in some way.
It's tempting to psychoanalyze someone like Loughner from a safe distance, but it would be questionable. Psychologists and psychiatrists generally recognize such as unethical.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 01-09-2011 at 12:39 AM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
This is very creepy.
Generation: Millennial (Gen Y)
Maybe America will end up like Russia.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...92474e7181.ce1
MOSCOW — A Moscow court Sunday sentenced Russia's former first deputy prime minister Boris Nemtsov to 15 days in prison for taking part in an unsanctioned New Year's Eve opposition rally, Interfax reported.
Moscow police detained nearly 130 people in Moscow and Saint Petersburg during a series of traditional end-of-month demonstrations that aim to assert Russians' constitutional right to gather in public places.
The 300-strong Moscow crowd chanted slogans in support of the jailed Kremlin critic and former oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, whose jail term was extended by six years last week, and called for broader political freedoms.
City authorities allowed the protesters to assemble on a small section of a central Moscow square a few blocks from the Kremlin.
But Russian reports said Nemtsov -- who oversaw social reforms under the administration of former president Boris Yeltsin -- and a group of other opposition leaders tried to break through the police ranks, leading to their immediate arrest.
"This is an absolute disgrace," Nemtsov told Echo of Moscow radio after the sentencing.
"They are trying to scare the opposition," Olga Shorina, a spokeswoman for the tiny Solidarity movement that includes Nemtsov and other prominent opposition figures, told the Interfax news agency.
Shorina said Nemtsov was convicted of disobeying police orders.
Actually this sounds quite bad too.
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/...es-dissenters/
The article says that the real aim was to protect the turf of the Russian Orthodox Church. I can't see that happening in America, but I can see the vaguely worded legislation being used for other purposes thing happening.When armed Russian security officers forced their way into Alexander Kalistratov’s home, he hardly imagined they were after his books. The local leader of a congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Siberia now faces up to two years in prison if found guilty this week of inciting religious hatred for distributing literature about his beliefs.
“They swept everything from my shelves without even bothering to sort it, even my Bible,” Kalistratov, a street sweeper, said by telephone from the Siberian town of Gorno-Altaysk, 3,600 km (2,200 miles) east of Moscow. His trial is the first of a dozen pending against Jehovah’s Witnesses and scores of others caught up in the widening net of criminal prosecutions brought under Russia’s anti-extremism law.
Rights activists say the vaguely worded legislation, first passed in 2002, is increasingly being exploited by the authorities to persecute religious minorities, intimidate the media and clamp down on opposition activists.
“It can be used to target anybody … political, religious or even completely apolitical groups such as labor union activists,” said Alexander Verkhovsky, whose SOVA rights group monitors hate crimes, extremism and religious freedoms. “In practice, it’s a universal tool.
Yes with the Washington sniper. That's one made me think that probably the real instigator is the older guy.
And yes I do think this is the 4T war. Terrorists and insurgencies against the government. Which is the same as Iraq and Afghanistan actually. It's just moved to the domestic front and domestic issues now.
The reason for rise of terrorism is that you would have to be insane to take on the American military head-on. Hence why this 4T is not seeing set battles between large armies. That applies as equally to ordinary Americans as it does Islamic fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan.
One thing I would find interesting is to see if the American government uses the same techniques in Iraq and Afghanistan domestically. Most likely yes. PR disasters in the making here.
At the time of 9/11 I thought, well it's either an Islamic terrorist or another Timothy McVeigh. Either way the world is not going to be the same again. It looks like we are moving back to Timothy McVeigh.
Last edited by AnneZob; 01-09-2011 at 12:53 AM.
I never predicted anything like this could ever happen. Right, James 50?
I also did not start a thread called "Innocent Citizens Have Nothing To Fear".
Hey, I'm a poker player. Would I lie to you?
Mercifully, everyone in America is part of a religious minority (including atheism and agnosticism), and few would gang up against another. But I can imagine some political or economic elite promoting one religion -- let us say Protestant fundamentalism -- as the optimum for submission to entrenched power, anti-intellectualism, and attention to the Hereafter instead of to the here-and-now, at least among the proles.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
Anne, I think you're right here. This has been building for awhile, with the town hall meetings last summer to the TSA controversy in late 2010. The People vs The Government is starting to take hold. And, frankly, there were a number of these skirmishes prior to the American Revolution, too. It's easier to recognize when looking at history, rather than feeling like domestic terrorism in the present day. Maybe people viewed the Revolutionaries as crazy then, too, while many sided with the Establishment, against them.
Also agree. And thank heavens for that.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." —Albert Einstein
"The road to perdition has ever been accompanied by lip service to an ideal." —Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” —Albert Einstein
I still can't see that happening. I don't know why. It just doesn't seem likely to me.
However what I can see is that the insurgencies might be inspired by the Protestant fundamentalists (particularly if they are mainly right-wing) and after winning the freedom of the American people, squashing Goldman Sachs etc. and becoming national heroes, they then use the anti-terrorism laws to establish a religious theocracy. Hey maybe an extreme environmentalist Protestant religious theocracy to merge the left and right wing.
Loughner is clearly insane and I agree that the older guy was the guy in charge. Loughner was merely the murder weapon.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
You can hope for that. But I fear that Americans lack -- possibly having had it groomed out of them -- the groundedness, self-reliance, and genuine community-mindedness that makes Russia work for the people who live there. Americans are more inclined to take a swing at someone (anyone... even if they have to invent a 'guilty party') than to simply tuck in and push through a hard time. Our pathologies will make our fall much more traumatic than the Russians' made theirs.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch
"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy
"[it] is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky
Millennials seem pretty grounded and community-minded, maybe there's hope yet (trying to be optimistic, as hard as that seems these days).
I agree with those who say this 4T will be about the people vs. the government, it only makes sense considering what I understand to be the major theme of the 2T was distrust in government and authority in general. It's definitely going to get worse from here before it gets better.
Schizophrenia, paranoid type
jadams
"Can it be believed that the democracy that has overthrown the feudal system and vanquished kings will retreat before tradesmen and capitalists?" Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
read that he had become increasing erratic and unhinged recently, he is at the right age of Schizophrenia onset, and the word-salad quality of his ramblings is classic Paranoid Schizophrenia.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
There's more. She was featured in the book "Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11"This is very creepy.
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...a-gunmans-hand
Christina Taylor Green, nine-year-old victim in today's Tucson shootings, once was an infant designated to be a "Face of Hope" by virtue of her birth on September 11, 2001. She was one of the children born on 9/11, reports Tucson blogger David Abie Morales. And she is thereby featured in the book by Christine Pisera Naman, entitled Faces of Hope, Babies Born on 9/11, dedicated to all the mothers who gave birth and to their babies born on the day the World Trade Towers in New York City were taken down by an act of terrorism.
Ironically, today her life ended in violence, as she fell under the attack of a gunman at a political function at a supermarket.Christina's page in Faces of Hope reads: I hope you know all the words to the Star Spangled Banner and sing it with your hand over your heart. I hope you jump in rain puddles (p. 42).
Last edited by AnneZob; 01-09-2011 at 02:53 AM.
If people keep pinning this on Palin, I suspect she'll be out calling herself a victim of the media again within 72 hours.
