Apparently you can only be declared a terrorist if you are not a white RWer.Originally Posted by Deb C
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Apparently you can only be declared a terrorist if you are not a white RWer.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
I'm Confused
Why did you post all those quotes? Obama just wants to kick Republican asses and shoot conservatives with guns. Rep Giffords is a Democrat. Obama didn't wanna kick her ass, or shoot her since she always voted the way he wanted her to.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Why is it so important to you to make this into a political story?
My gosh, you have even gone to quoting Fox News.
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
The more ironic thing is that the most vitriolic poster on this board would suddenly think it's a problem.
The reason why it will not have an effect on gun laws, and should not, is because he could have done just as much damage, if not more, with a car.
James, just remember that extemists on both sides will try to spin this to fit their point of view. You won't change that; instead, look at how most people are viewing it: as the actions of a deranged, illogical individual without any clear political motivations.
To place blame on the Left or the Right (or the rhetoric between them) is only to promulgate their unstable ideologies. We're getting to the point in the 4T where we're (as a society) beyond that. Let the extremists (and the media) catch up with that when they can.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." —Albert Einstein
"The road to perdition has ever been accompanied by lip service to an ideal." —Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” —Albert Einstein
Because it IS a political story. The Far Right has been incited to violence constantly over the last 3 years. The folks at Palin's rally back in '08 shouting "KILL HIM, KILL HIM!!!" completely shocked me, and the rhetoric keeps on getting more and more violent, culmunating in Sharon Angle's comment about "2nd Amendment solutions". Then there was the RW nut that shot up a Unitarian church because he hated their tolerance. then there was the assasination of Dr. Tiller, called "Tiller the Killer" by Bill O'Reily.
ALL this violent rhetoric and behavior has come from the RIGHT, not the left, and it eventually lead to some schizophrenic racist Gold Bug to snap and murder 6 people, including a 9yo girl born on 9/11, trying to assassinate a Jewish congresswoman. And then the RW propagandists responding by saying "both sides are equally at fault"; I say that is BS, complete BS, it simply encourages more violence from the Far Right.
I am beyond angry, I am FURIOUS.
Last edited by Odin; 01-10-2011 at 12:32 AM.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Clyburn: Incendiary political talk has come home to roost
WASHINGTON — Rep. Jim Clyburn said Sunday that tea party favorite Sharron Angle's endorsement of "Second Amendment remedies" in her losing Nevada campaign against Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid contributed to the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
Clyburn, the House assistant Democratic leader, said of Giffords' alleged assailant, Jared Lee Loughner: "It seems like this gentleman was not satisfied with the way the election came out. "There's no way you cannot make that connection (with Angle's rhetoric) unless you want to be stupid."
Angle, a tea party favorite, was the surprise Republican Senate primary victor in Nevada last year.
During the general election campaign, capped by Reid's narrow defeat of Angle on Nov. 2, she repeatedly condoned Americans preparing for "Second Amendment remedies" and urged supporters to "take out Harry Reid."
Clyburn told Fox News that "in my neighborhood, and in front of my house, there was additional security" after Saturday's shooting that left Giffords, an Arizona Democrat, critically wounded.
The 10th-term congressman said Columbia Mayor Steve Benjamin called him Saturday evening after the shooting, and that the State Law Enforcement Division had also been in contact.
Clyburn, the highest-ranking African-American in Congress, has been a strong critic of conservative vitriol aimed at him and other Democratic lawmakers.
In March last year, as the House neared passage of a landmark health-insurance bill, Clyburn deplored several tea party protesters who yelled a racial epithet at black lawmakers as they entered the U.S. Capitol.
While Clyburn said Sunday that political rhetoric has become more irresponsible, he said it's not new for him to be the target of ugly slurs, some of them racially tinged. Clyburn recalled getting a number of threats in the 1990s when he was a leading advocate of removing the Confederate flag from atop the statehouse dome.
Even though Giffords — who unlike Clyburn opposes gun control laws — has a more conservative voting record than his, Clyburn said he's given her maximum campaign contributions because he admires her.
"She canceled out a lot of my votes, but it didn't matter to me," he said. "I felt she was the just kind of person we ought to have in public life."
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
The pot calling the kettle black?
For the record, I am against tougher gun control laws. I think people have a right to self defense and the push for gun control came from your hero Reagan as California governor because the Black Panthers scared the sh*t out of the Establishment.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
The increasingly violent rhetoric coming from people like Beck and Angle is exactly the thing that can cause a mentally ill person to snap.
Though I agree with James that we need better services for the mentally ill in this country.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Agree with you there. But continuing the rhetoric is only to lower one's self to the level of Beck, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc. I really do believe we're getting past that point in this Turning.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." —Albert Einstein
"The road to perdition has ever been accompanied by lip service to an ideal." —Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” —Albert Einstein
Sorry Odin but you're wrong.
The FBI found a safe with a letter from Ms. Giffords thanking him for attending another 'Congress on Your Corner Event' from 2007 and notes saying that he planned his assassination ahead of time.
According to his friends he was mad at her because she was rude to him when he asked her if 'words matter.'
Apparently he's been wanting to blow her brains out before Palin was even a national name.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._share_twitter
Wow, that guy was out of his fricking mind!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
See that's what I'm thinking. The guy was just nuts and probably doesn't truly associate himself with either party. He is not only paranoid about government but with people in general. If some guy working at the local convenience store said something to him that he didn't like, he could have just as easily shot him. Generally people with a political agenda (I'm thinking the crazy militia type people with a stock pile of guns in their barricaded homes somewhere up in the mountains) don't go around shooting at crowds and killing innocent by standing children. They generally go after specific governmental officials or law enforcement agents. This guy reminds more of the people that walk into schools or colleges and open fire on everyone.Wow, that guy was out of his fricking mind!
I don't think he is a Timothy McVeigh. I think he is more of a Dylan Klebold type person.
I apologize for making unwarranted assumptions and jumping to the conclusion that Loughner was incited by Palin's gun-sight map.
Ever since the violent "Eliminationist" rhetoric on the Right went mainstream in 2008 I have been frankly terrified by the language coming from the Right. The very fact that they are in denial about their rhetoric and that they reacted so viciously to this shooting and acting as if they were covering their asses is very troubling, regardless of their culpability.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Apparently this guy followed a right-wing conspiracy theory involving the government using grammar as mind control or something of that order.
He is also an anti-Semite and a racist.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
That's the way they like it.
Stop playing into their hands, please.
This much actually sounds like a very paranoid/insane version of Chomsky, if anything.
The guy's obviously losing/lost his mind and had too much information from Marx & Hitler & Ayn Rand than his failing faculties could make sense of.
Or else he's got a hell of an insanity defense in the works...
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.
'82 - Once & always independent
I was thinking more of something like the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, the now disproven notion that the structure of a language is a straight-jacket on thought.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
But if he's not scared of the boogeyman they keep waving at him, what good is he to the ruling class? Without fear, properly directed, the masses might get unmanageable. These kind of happenings are godsends to the powerful.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch
"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy
"[it] is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky
Oh yeah, maybe if he hates Jewish people he wouldn't trust Chomsky. Otherwise, he does bridge the gap between language & politics and often take aim at the US gov.
Anyway, the guy is a total nutcase and he needs to be locked up one way or the other. Somewhere with strong security & anti-psychotics.
Trying to look in to his head and "understand" what he was thinking is like staring in to the abyss. We can't make full sense of it while remaining sane ourselves.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.
'82 - Once & always independent
Ah, now you're demonstrating your brilliance... the theory of linguistic relativity could definitely be a part of this conversation, except for the facts of this particular case.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." —Albert Einstein
"The road to perdition has ever been accompanied by lip service to an ideal." —Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” —Albert Einstein
Another left wing hack
Hilarious that some of you here are quoting the Sheriff of Pima county as some unbiased source. Here is a a well done, incisive interview which exposes Sheriff Dumass as nothing less than a partisan hack. He admits there is nothing that leads him to believe that anything said on radio or tv caused the violence, its just his opinion. This is the same Sheriff who has appeared on oh so unbiased programs such as Kieth Overbite. As someone hwo has worked in law enforcement I can tell you this guy is as unprofessional as you can get, shooting his mouth of without the fact and opining.
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noe...etoric-incited-
Nice try all weekend trying to make this guy out as some type of right winger. Hardly. Here is one of his classmates decscribing him as far left. I doubt he knew what he was. His ideas seemed so jumbled, just another kook. As far as your comments about the right trying to "cover thier ass"
Its more like, we arent going to allow you guys to pin this on us like you did OK city. Thankfully we have the media outlests now to do that.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/val...ed_shooter.php
