Would that be with or without the self-described liberals here, most of whom are gun owners themselves?Originally Posted by Eric the Green
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Would that be with or without the self-described liberals here, most of whom are gun owners themselves?
Brian did a pretty good job extolling the virtues of Boehner on PBS the other day. Not a critical word. Some liberal.
The NY Times; the one with that female reporter who was all in favor of all the Bush efforts to rip our constitution to shreds.
The media is owned by conservative rich CEOs and stockholders. A few big companies own it all. Not very liberal. Even PBS depends on folks like Chevron who run their oil propaganda ads convincing us they are for green energy.
But that's a cute nickname for George
They can decide for themselves where to go. They don't need to go with you.
What am I? I guess I'm a little hard to classify, aren't I? To answer your question about why I don't like Sarah Palin. Well, I guess the thing that bothers me the most about her is that prior to arriving on the national scene both her and her husband, Todd had very strong ties to Alaska Independent Party. Todd was a member for 20 years. Do you know what the Alaska Independent Party is? Probably not...So I will tell you. (See, I know these things because I lived there for 6 years.) The reason for the Alaska Independent Party and the main thing they stand for is that they would like to secede from the union. This is something that is common knowledge to anyone who has ever lived in Alaska. So I wasn't really crazy about having a Vice President who didn't even really want to be part of this country in the first place and I really don't like the idea of having a president that feels that way.
I think John McCain's people were in a rush to find a running mate and they didn't vet her very well. And now, we are stuck with her.
Last edited by ASB65; 01-12-2011 at 07:14 PM.
What? Oh Eric, you are so wrong. Of course there are gun laws there. I know for a fact that in order to purchase a gun in Illinois there is a week waiting period and you have to have a background check. You can not own a gun if you have a criminal record or if you have a serious mental illness. They even have laws about what type of gun you can use when you hunt. You cannot even shoot a deer with a shotgun. Only a riffle or a bow and arrow. And you can't carry a concealed weapon in the state of Illinois either.
Please, please Mr. Marbut, secede, and take your folks in Montana with you. Please secede as soon as possible! Why wait? Do it now! And close the door on your way out!!!In 1994, disgusted with the passage of the Brady Act (which established federal background checks on firearms purchases) and that year’s federal assault-weapons ban, Marbut suggested Montana secede from the Union, and his shooting sports group promoted a resolution legalizing the formation of “unorganized militias.” Marbut also penned columns for a white-supremacist Christian Identity newspaper, The Jubilee, and for an Identity-oriented militia magazine...
And please, feds, don't chase after them and shoot them. Let them go please!!!
Last edited by Eric the Green; 01-12-2011 at 06:53 PM.
Illinois is mostly a good blue state now. I was aware that Illinois has good gun laws. I believe so does Wisconsin if I'm not mistaken. That is, if the new Republican majority doesn't repeal them.
Illinois has Chicago of course.
Wow, I had to see that for myself to believe the numbers. Here's the full report on Gallup's website.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." —Albert Einstein
"The road to perdition has ever been accompanied by lip service to an ideal." —Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” —Albert Einstein
I would imagine that Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana and so on have similar laws. But since I have never lived there, I can't say for certain. But I would be surprised if they didn't.
Ok, I do want clear up one misconception of Illinois and it being a blue state. Yes, Illinois is considered a blue state because of Chicago. All the folks in Chicago cancel out the others in the rest of the state because the high concentration of the population of that city, which is primarily Democrat. If you get about an hour outside of the suburbs you will find most of Illinois, which is rural, is really pretty conservative. The liberals are for the most part are concentrated in the far northeastern corner of that state. But geographically, most of people through out the state aren't. And when you get into southern Illinois. Forget it. There are very few democrats down there. That part of the state might as well be Kentucky.
Wow, I'm sorry Eric, but the gun issue has brought out a disgustingly close-minded and prejudiced side of you I am DEEPLY offended by. I live in what I would consider one of the most "civilized" parts of the country. Our crime rate is extremely low and education level very high, yet a very large % of us hunt.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Well documented by who? I was born in '64, and thus do not remember specific political happening from that year, but of course I have studied them. But from a more personal point of view... even though I lived most of my life in Pennsylvania, Ontario and Illinois, my entire family is from the south. They were all Southern Democrats when I was a kid. My aunt and uncle worked so hard for Jimmy Carter they got invited to the inaguration ball. And guess what? Now they are all republicans. Furthermore, they are not racists.
Now, I know those on the far left, and particularly from the Bay area, like to believe that they know everything and in particular that they know what is best for the rest of us ignorant cretins, the fact of the matter is that my family is not racist. Oh, I looked for it, especially when I was at university and being force feed liberal idealism, but I could never find it. It was actually frustrating, since the liberal party line is that all Southerners are backwards, racist, uneducated rednecks. Trouble is, it wasn't true.
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
Malcolm Reynolds
"I ran across a book recently which suggested that the peace and prosperity of a culture was solely related to how many librarians it contained. Possibly a slight overstatement. But a culture that doesn't value its librarians doesn't value ideas and without ideas, well, where are we?"
Lucien, Librarian of Dream (from The Sandman, issue 57 (1993) by Neil Gaiman)
Early-wave GenX
It was solidly Democrat because the Republicans were the North prior to LBJ and the Civil Rights Act. FDR made a lot of concessions to Dixiecrats. Then came Nixon's "southern strategy." Lee Atwater, former GNC chair was a master. And he was southern and not a racist, just a political operator.
But if southerners are republicans now because of "The whole south used to be solidly Democrat. Guns, abortion, other conservative issues turned it." I'd say that's pretty backwards thinking anyway, whether it includes racism or not.
But in some southern states, the voters split by race, red or blue, in numbers like 80 to 90 percent. You'd have to think that all whites agree with themselves on all issues, and all blacks on all issues too, to dismiss the possibility that this is a racial divide.
The history could not be more clear. The south became solidly Democratic in about 1860 for one reason, and one reason only: civil war and reconstruction and the issue of black rights. The Republicans then were the majority party of the North and the party of Lincoln and black freedom. The Democrats were the party that hosted and tolerated the pro-slavery, pro-confederacy southerners, so white southerners became Democrats. And blacks were denied their right to vote.
Fast forward to 1964. Congress passes the civil rights bill. Freedom Summer begins black registration in the South. Barry Goldwater carries 5 southern states by wide margins for the first time since Reconstruction. 1965: voting rights act passed which enforces black right to vote. 1968: Nixon appeals to the South for votes and appoints Agnew VP. Ever since then, the only time southern states vote Democratic is if a southerner is running for president; except in 1968 Texas voted for LBJ's vice president. Bottom line: when the racial policies of the Democratic Party changed, the South went solidly Republican, and stayed there.
I note that Virginia and North Carolina (not to mention Florida) broke the spell and voted for Obama. I was hoping that was the start of a new day. But now the Tea Party has come along...
Last edited by Eric the Green; 01-12-2011 at 07:24 PM.
No doubt true. Although it is surprising that some other rural counties near the Ohio River, such as in Indiana where my father came from (5 generations), are quite moderate. What I saw on the news though was clear that only Wisconsin (and Illinois) among midwestern states had fairly strict guns laws; not Iowa and Indiana.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 01-12-2011 at 07:52 PM.
I alao would like to see your documentation. I have lived all my life in Alabama and the majority of the people I know are not racists. There are other issues other than race that drive decisions.
When I was very young there was only one party( Democrat) due to Reconstruction and FDR. The turning point in Alabama when the first Republican governor was elected was a fluke( the ruling Democrat bosses overturned the primary vote and made their hand-picked candidate the nominee). There was essentially a grass-roots reaction and the Republican candidate( who in other years could never had been elected) was selected as the governor of Alabama. There was a time when your statements on race would have been valid, but based on my personal experience, this is no longer the case.
Why is it offensive to you for me to be against hunting? I have that right, and the right to say so, and why. And why do you feel it is civilized to go shoot animals for sport? Why not take up another sport? And no I'm not telling you to do it. I said that before.
Does your state have good gun control laws? No. Does it allow people to carry concealed weapons? Yes. Bottom line, your state is barbaric to that extent, because you guys think you need to carry weapons to defend yourselves instead of depending on civilization to do it. It is a culture of fear.
Where am I wrong? Rationally?
Last edited by Eric the Green; 01-12-2011 at 07:45 PM.
Why not post all the incidents where people shoot themselves accidentally? What about the thousands of cases like the one in Arizona?
If you have to have a gun to defend yourself, then this is the wild west. I don't want to live in the OK Corral. Get the guns off the streets. That means get them out of homes too, because guns in homes end up on the streets too.
My brother has a second home up in Wisconsin. It's in pretty rural area in the middle of the state. According to him, hunting is pretty big up there. He jokes about how he feels out of place when they go up to their lake house because he doesn't have a pick-up truck with a gun rack. They may very well have strict laws, but they do take their hunting pretty seriously. Which goes to my point, you can enjoy hunting but that doesn't mean you are gun fanatic and doesn't mean you are against gun laws across the board. I do think most people in America have pretty moderate views on the issue of gun control.
That could be true, or may have been true at times, but is not true now. Because if it were, there would be good gun control laws in most states and nationally, and there aren't.
I wrote, "But in some southern states, the voters split by race, red or blue, in numbers like 80 to 90 percent. You'd have to think that all whites agree with themselves on all issues, and all blacks on all issues too, to dismiss the possibility that this is a racial divide."
These stats are available in any Almanac.
An AZ friend said she repeatedly voted to increase state senators salaries because she believed that higher salaries would lessen the influence of lobbyists. They did get an increase--to about $24,000 a year from $15,000. She also said that bar owners in AZ were very much against the relaxation of concealed weapon laws. It's easy to see why. Drunk with guns is a bad idea.
Chicago does have tough handgun laws, mainly due to gangs or maybe because of its history. However, there are plenty of otherwise law-abiding people who own handguns here illegally for the reasons Rani states.
After seeing some 16 year-old holding a huge gun one night in the middle of Ashland Ave, after seeing a gun pulled on a man in a group I was with (it seemed to be because the man in my group was really tall--a professional basketball player), after seeing the immediately aftermath of a point-blank shooting (I was on a date in a very nice part of town), I have mixed feelings about handgun control.
After I was the victim of a crime, the detective on the case told me I should get a gun, especially as a woman. This was many years ago. I told him I didn't know how to shoot a gun. He said, "It's easy. You point and you squeeze."
But at this point, in Chicago anyway, many of the people with handguns are criminals.
Catch' em and lock 'em up, and take away their guns.
radind, I have been down this road before. Eric will not accept anything positive about any state which votes Republican nor will he visit such states. He makes his decisions about the worth of a people based on how the majority votes. Its very simple - Democratic: good; Republican: bad. It is really useless to argue with him. He has facts but his facts are all about elections. No other facts are important to him and certainly having people who actually live in the south talk about the south matters not at all.
Of course, he thinks we are the provincial ones.
James50
Last edited by James50; 01-12-2011 at 08:18 PM.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
It’s not the raw stats that are in question. It is the interpretation. The fact that ~ 90% of blacks vote Democratic does not constitute proof that race is the main issue. Just as the fact that ~60% of whites voted Republican does not provide proof that race is the main issue. And I have seen some claim that racism is at work, which I maintain is an unsubstantiated assertion.
Here is my thought on the debate about hunting:
I am not an avid hunter, but I am not against the practice either (population control reasons). That said, I think Eric makes a perfectly rational point in that it is unethical to kill animals for sport. Asking what have living creatures done to deserve a death for fun is a question worthy of asking. This type of thinking is not particular to those on the lunatic fringe. Their are a lot people that I have met in my lifetime that are sane and capable of forming rational thoughts that make the argument Eric does. To add to this, all of these people that I know are not from San Francisco.
Generation: Millennial (Gen Y)
