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Thread: The Spiral of Violence - Page 134







Post#3326 at 12-31-2012 11:22 AM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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American Colonial Militia Musket

"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#3327 at 12-31-2012 11:37 AM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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30 round AK-47 magazine



AK-47 Drum magazine



AK-47


Anyone see the difference between the Colonial Militia Musket and today's Ak-47?
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#3328 at 12-31-2012 12:24 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
American Colonial Militia Musket

American Colonial mass-communication device (Letterpress)





So Deb, should the first amendment apply to the modern computer and internet?

Oh and for the record (not that it matters much), a couple decades ago I worked in the printing industry and have actually used a Letterpress. You could say I was in the first amendment business for a few years. Just in those few years I personally saw the industry move from old fashioned paste up type-setting to computer design. Not once did I think that any of this advancement was a dangerous thing. To the contrary, I admired how quickly and efficiently one could be subversive in this new age.
Last edited by Copperfield; 12-31-2012 at 12:26 PM.







Post#3329 at 12-31-2012 12:32 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
American Colonial mass-communication device (Letterpress)





So Deb, should the first amendment apply to the modern computer and internet?

Oh and for the record (not that it matters much), a couple decades ago I worked in the printing industry and have actually used a Letterpress. You could say I was in the first amendment business for a few years. Just in those few years I personally saw the industry move from old fashioned paste up type-setting to computer design. Not once did I think that any of this advancement was a dangerous thing. To the contrary, I admired how quickly and efficiently one could be subversive in this new age.
Not sure I've ever heard of a computer used as a weapon of mass murder.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#3330 at 12-31-2012 01:28 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
Not sure I've ever heard of a computer used as a weapon of mass murder.
Speech sure has though, hasn't it?







Post#3331 at 12-31-2012 04:23 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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But the *Constitution* says

As someone who has taught constitutional law for almost 40 years, I am ashamed it took me so long to see how bizarre all this is. Imagine that after careful study a government official — say, the president or one of the party leaders in Congress — reaches a considered judgment that a particular course of action is best for the country. Suddenly, someone bursts into the room with new information: a group of white propertied men who have been dead for two centuries, knew nothing of our present situation, acted illegally under existing law and thought it was fine to own slaves might have disagreed with this course of action. Is it even remotely rational that the official should change his or her mind because of this divination?

Constitutional disobedience may seem radical, but it is as old as the Republic. In fact, the Constitution itself was born of constitutional disobedience. When George Washington and the other framers went to Philadelphia in 1787, they were instructed to suggest amendments to the Articles of Confederation, which would have had to be ratified by the legislatures of all 13 states. Instead, in violation of their mandate, they abandoned the Articles, wrote a new Constitution and provided that it would take effect after ratification by only nine states, and by conventions in those states rather than the state legislatures.


No sooner was the Constitution in place than our leaders began ignoring it. John Adams supported the Alien and Sedition Acts, which violated the First Amendment’s guarantee of freedom of speech. Thomas Jefferson thought every constitution should expire after a single generation. He believed the most consequential act of his presidency — the purchase of the Louisiana Territory — exceeded his constitutional powers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/31/op...anted=all&_r=0

An example of ignoring the *Constitution*

Senate Votes to Extend Sweeping Bush Era Surveillance Powers


Even modest attempts to reign in domestic spying law fail as Senators defend sweeping powers for NSA

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/12/28
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#3332 at 12-31-2012 04:36 PM by RyanJH [at joined Jan 2011 #posts 291]
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A useful study as you consider the pros and cons of gun control...

Quote Originally Posted by RyanJH View Post
All right Eric, for the sake of discussion, let's completely disregard Kleck.

Instead let's use the 2002 Task Force on Community Preventative Services to the CDC on Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Reducing Violence: Firearms Laws. I have extracted the conclusions from the Executive Summary of the report below for a quick synopsis.

<-----Extract Follows-------->

Evidence was insufficient to determine the effectiveness of any of these laws for the following reasons.

  • Bans on specified firearms or ammunition. Results of studies of firearms and ammunition bans were inconsistent: certain studies indicated decreases in violence associated with bans, and others indicated increases. Several studies found that the number of banned guns retrieved after a crime declined when bans were enacted, but these studies did not assess violent consequences (16,17). Studies of the 1976 Washington, D.C. handgun ban yielded inconsistent results (18--20). Bans often include "grandfather" provisions, allowing ownership of an item if it is acquired before the ban, complicating an assessment of causality. Finally, evidence indicated that sales of firearms to be banned might increase in the period before implementation of the bans (e.g., the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994) (21).
  • Restrictions on firearm acquisition. The federal government and individual states restrict the acquisition and use of firearms by individuals on the basis of their personal history. Reasons for restriction can include prior felony conviction, conviction of misdemeanor intimate partner violence, drug abuse, adjudication as "mentally defective,"†† and other characteristics (e.g., specified young age). The Brady Law (22) established national restrictions on acquisition of firearms and ammunition from federal firearms licensees. The interim Brady Law (1994--1998) mandated a 5-day waiting period to allow background checks. The permanent Brady Law, enacted in 1998, eliminated the required waiting period. It normally allows 3 days for a background check, after which, if no evidence of a prohibited characteristic is found, the purchase may proceed (23). Certain states have established additional restrictions, and some require background checks of all firearms transactions, not only those conducted by federal firearms licensees.
    The permanent Brady Law depends on the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). However, NICS lacks much of the required background information, particularly on certain restriction categories (23). Efforts to improve the availability of background information have been supported by the National Criminal History Improvement Program (24). Approximately 689,000 applications to acquire a firearm (2.3% of 30 million applications) were denied under the Brady Law from its first implementation in 1994 through 2000 (25); the majority of denials were based on the applicant's criminal history. However, denial of an application does not always stop applicants from acquiring firearms through other means.
    Overall, evaluations of the effects of acquisition restrictions on violent outcomes have produced inconsistent findings: some studies indicated decreases in violence associated with restrictions, and others indicated increases. One study indicated a statistically significant reduction in the rate of suicide by firearms among persons aged >55 years; however, the reduction in suicide by all methods was not statistically significant. Furthermore, this benefit appears to have been a consequence of the waiting period imposed by the interim Brady Law (which has since been dropped in the permanent law) rather than of the law's restrictions on the basis of the purchaser's characteristics (26).
  • Waiting periods for firearm acquisition. Waiting periods for firearm acquisition require a specified delay between application for and acquisition of a firearm. Waiting periods have been established by the federal government and by states to allow time to check the applicant's background or to provide a "cooling-off" period for persons at risk of committing suicide or impulsive acts against others. Studies of the effects of waiting periods on violent outcomes yielded inconsistent results: some indicated a decrease in violent outcome associated with the delay and others indicated an increase. As noted previously, one study of the interim Brady Law indicated a statistically significant reduction in firearms suicide among persons aged >55 years associated with the waiting period requirement of the interim law. Several studies suggested a partial "substitution effect" for suicide (i.e., decreases in firearms suicide are accompanied by smaller increases in suicide by other means) (26).
  • Firearm registration and licensing of owners. Registration requires that a record of the owner of specified firearms be created and retained (27). At the national level, the Firearm Ownership Protection Act of 1986 specifically precludes the federal government from establishing and maintaining a registry of firearms and their owners. Licensing requires an individual to obtain a license or other form of authorization or certification to purchase or possess a firearm (27). Licensing and registration requirements are often combined with other firearms regulations, such as safety training or safe storage requirements. Only four studies examined the effects of registration and licensing on violent outcomes; the findings were inconsistent.
  • "Shall issue" concealed weapon carry laws. Shall issue concealed weapon carry laws (shall issue laws) require the issuing of a concealed weapon carry permit to all applicants not disqualified by specified criteria. Shall issue laws are usually implemented in place of "may issue" laws, in which the issuing of a concealed weapon carry permit is discretionary (based on criteria such as the perceived need or moral character of the applicant). A third alternative, total prohibition of the carrying of concealed weapons, was in effect in six states in 2001.
    The substantial number of studies of shall issue laws largely derives from and responds to one landmark study (28). Many of these studies were considered to be nonindependent because they assessed the same intervention in the same population during similar time periods. A review of the data revealed critical problems, including misclassification of laws, unreliable county-level crime data, and failure to use appropriate denominators for the available numerator crime data (29). Methodological problems, such as failure to adjust for autocorrelation in time series data, were also evident. Results across studies were inconsistent or conceptually implausible. Therefore, evidence was insufficient to determine the effect of shall issue laws on violent outcomes.
  • Child access prevention laws. Child access prevention (CAP) laws are designed to limit children's access to and use of firearms in homes. The laws require firearms owners to store their firearms locked, unloaded, or both, and make the firearm owners liable when children use a household firearm to threaten or harm themselves or others. In three states with CAP laws (Florida, Connecticut, California), this crime is a felony; in several others it is a misdemeanor.
    Only three studies examined the effects of CAP laws on violent outcomes, and only one outcome, unintentional firearms deaths, was assessed by all three. Of these, two studies assessed the same states over the same time periods and were therefore nonindependent. The most recent study, which included the most recent states to pass CAP laws and had the longest follow-up time, indicated that the apparent reduction in unintentional firearm deaths associated with CAP laws that carry felony sanctions was statistically significant only in Florida and not in California or Connecticut (30). Overall, too few studies of CAP law effects have been done, and the findings of existing studies were inconsistent. In addition, although CAP laws address juveniles as perpetrators of firearms violence, available studies assessed only juvenile victims of firearms violence.
  • Zero tolerance laws for firearms in schools. The Gun-Free Schools Act (31) stipulates that each state receiving federal funds must have a state law requiring local educational agencies to expel a student from school for at least 1 year if a firearm is found in the student's possession at school. Expulsion may lead to alternative school placement or to "street" placement (full expulsion, with no linkage to formal education). In contrast to the 3,523 firearms reported confiscated under the Gun-Free Schools Act in the 1998--99 school year, school surveys (32) indicate that an estimated 3% of the 12th grade student population in 1996 (i.e., 85,350 students) reported carrying firearms on school property one or more times in the previous 30 days. Thus, even if only 12th grade students carry firearms, fewer than 4.3% of firearms are being detected in association with the Gun-Free Schools Act.
    No study reviewed attempted to evaluate the effects of zero tolerance laws on violence in schools, nor did any measure the effect of the Gun-Free Schools Act on carrying of firearms in schools. One cross-sectional study, however, assessed the effectiveness of metal detector programs in reducing the carrying of firearms in schools (33). Although firearms detection is not explicitly required in the Gun-Free Schools Act, the effectiveness of the law may depend on the ability to detect firearms by various means. The study reported that schools with and without metal detectors did not differ in rates of threatening, fights, or carrying of firearms outside of school, but the rate of carrying firearms to, from, or in schools with detection programs was half that of schools without such programs. The effectiveness of zero tolerance laws in preventing violence cannot be assessed because appropriate evidence was not available. A further concern is that "street" expulsion might result in increased violence and other problems among expelled students.
  • Combinations of firearms laws. Governmental jurisdictions (e.g., states or nations) can be characterized by the degree to which they regulate firearm possession and use. Whether a greater degree of firearms regulation in a jurisdiction results in a reduction of the amount of violence in that jurisdiction still needs to be determined. Three kinds of evidence were reviewed for this study: 1) studies of the effects of comprehensive national laws within nations; 2) international comparisons of comprehensive laws; and 3) studies in which law types within jurisdictions (i.e., regulation of specific, defined aspects of firearm acquisition and use) were categorized and counted, and counts compared with rates of specific forms of violence within the same jurisdictions. The latter type are referred to here as index studies because they developed indices of the degree of regulation. In drawing conclusions about law combinations, findings from the three approaches were considered.
    On the basis of national law assessments (the Gun Control Act of 1968 in the United States and the Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1977 in Canada), international comparisons (between the United States and Canada), and index studies (all conducted within the United States), available evidence was insufficient to determine whether the degree of firearms regulation was associated with decreased (or increased) violence. The findings were inconsistent and most studies were methodologically inadequate to allow conclusions about causal effects. Moreover, as conducted, index studies, even if consistent, would not allow specification of which laws to implement.

In summary, the Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence. References and key findings are listed (Table).


<-------Extract Ends--------->

My problems with adopting more aggressive gun controls or banning guns as a solution to our violence problems are threefold.

First, most gun control proponents only address the costs to society of firearms and fail to address the benefits side of the equation or if they do so, they address it on a theoretical basis only. I am a Gen Xer, show me the evidence.

Second, even if we disregard Kleck's studies or any others of a similar nature, there is not sufficient evidence to establish causality between gun regulation / banning and reductions in violence. Note, there is sufficient evidence to indicate implementing safety regulations, when done under the right conditions, will reduce accidental firearms deaths.

By the way, I concede that there is a correlation between non-violent cultures and the prevalence of weapons in that culture. The evidence I have reviewed indicates that non-violent cultures simply choose not to have a whole bunch of weapons, not that removing weapons from a violent culture induces them to become non-violent. Usually, violent cultures find new weapons when the old weapons become unavailable.

Third, the struggle between the opponents and proponents of gun control as a primary solution to violence in America distracts efforts from addressing the real root causes for our violence problems.
Ryan Heilman '68
-Math is the beginning of wisdom.







Post#3333 at 12-31-2012 05:03 PM by RyanJH [at joined Jan 2011 #posts 291]
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There is a saying that one of the best crime preventative measures is a 30th birthday (turns out most violent crime is perpetrated by males between the ages of 14 and 24). S&H say that Gen X might be more inclined to criminal actions due being raised during the destruction of civic and social institutions. Therefore, we might expect homicides to go up, peak and drop from 1975 (1961 plus 14 year old early Gen Xers) to 2005 (1981 plus 24 year old Gen Xers). This Bureau of Justice Statistics web page shows that homicides rose, peaked and declined during that timeframe.

Violent crime in the United States has a strong correlation to young (14-24 year old), urban unemployed males* in environments with weak social and civic institutions. Based off the evidence, strengthening employment opportunities for young men in urban environments and strengthening social and civic institutions are likely to have a positive impact on reducing violent crime. Based off the evidence and recent history (1994 - 2004), increased gun regulations are unlikely to have a positive impact on violent crime.

*There is also evidence to support a relatively strong cultural bias towards violence in white, black and hispanic cultures (in that order).
Ryan Heilman '68
-Math is the beginning of wisdom.







Post#3334 at 12-31-2012 06:22 PM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
Speech sure has though, hasn't it?
For sure! Three words, "Carthage must be destroyed!", caused a highly unnecessary, genocidal 'echo war' - after the Carthaginians had already been as badly beaten as the Germans after WWII. Many other examples in history.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#3335 at 12-31-2012 10:45 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
Speech sure has though, hasn't it?
Julius Streicher

Warning: Vile and indefensible images of Jews as the grist of racist antisemitism that 'inspired' the Holocaust

Typical prose from Julius Streicher even as the Third Reich was going down to defeat

For the kiddies -- if they lived in the Third Reich.

He believed in his hate even to his end:

Streicher was hanged in the early hours of 16 October 1946, along with the nine other condemned defendants from the first Nuremberg trial (Göring, Streicher's nemesis, committed suicide only hours earlier). Streicher's was the most melodramatic of the hangings carried out that night. At the bottom of the scaffold he cried out "Heil Hitler!". When he mounted the platform, he delivered his last sneering reference to Jewish scripture, snapping "Purim-Fest 1946!". The Jewish holiday Purim celebrates the escape by the Jews from extermination at the hands of Haman, an ancient Persian government official. At the end of the Purim story, Haman is hanged, as are his ten sons. Streicher's final declaration before the hood went over his head was, "The Bolsheviks will hang you one day!"
China:

A real-life Jezebel, Jiang Qing, wife of Mao Zedong

Rwanda:

Froduald Karamira -- propagandist of genocide

Simon Bikindi -- musical figure of genocide
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#3336 at 01-01-2013 06:37 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
It IS. It works too. Illinois proves that by having among the lowest rates of violent crime among US states, and among the better records on gun control laws, despite having one of the most violent urban areas.

There is no excuse for libertarians supporting the use of guns. If they are against government-sponsored violence, then it seems more logical to be against private violence and private violent governments as well. I understand they do not like too many laws. But a lawless society just doesn't work. Too much violence to enforce a ban on guns, I agree is counterproductive and hypocritical. But sensible laws work, and are better than rule by the strongest individuals with the biggest weapons.
Indeed. The libertarian credo is that whatever does not result from "force or fraud" is by nature an exercise in freedom to be endorsed after the fact irrespective of the consequences. Firearms are brute force, and one needs a compelling moral argument to justify their use.

The appeal "Your money or your life" with the business end of a revolver on one's anatomy is not an exercise of freedom.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#3337 at 01-01-2013 12:13 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Grey Badger View Post
For sure! Three words, "Carthage must be destroyed!", caused a highly unnecessary, genocidal 'echo war' - after the Carthaginians had already been as badly beaten as the Germans after WWII. Many other examples in history.
The question was rhetorical and still unanswered by Deb et al. I don't see the call going out from them for stricter controls of speech, yet I am asked to believe that "the public safety" is the only thing that matters?

But then I suppose it is a bit hard to take away one of these rights without first taking the other isn't it...







Post#3338 at 01-01-2013 02:30 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
The question was rhetorical and still unanswered by Deb et al. I don't see the call going out from them for stricter controls of speech, yet I am asked to believe that "the public safety" is the only thing that matters?

But then I suppose it is a bit hard to take away one of these rights without first taking the other isn't it...
There are exceptions to every rule. Stockpiling AK-47's was not part of the Constitution. But like I indicated in another post, some use the Constitution like they do the Bible; they make it mean whatever fits their wants.

And by the way, there is a growing attack on free speech. Occupy can attest to that. They were even deemed to be terrorists.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#3339 at 01-01-2013 03:51 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
There are exceptions to every rule. Stockpiling AK-47's was not part of the Constitution.
As has been shown in this thread, technically it is.

Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
But like I indicated in another post, some use the Constitution like they do the Bible; they make it mean whatever fits their wants.
Including you Deb. There have been ample examples posted here as to what the authors of the second amendment had in mind.

Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
And by the way, there is a growing attack on free speech. Occupy can attest to that. They were even deemed to be terrorists.
Of course. Free speech is every bit as dangerous to bureaucrats, politicians and the various owning interests of this world as firearms are. Unfortunately you still play their game by fighting the freedoms you don't actually like instead of supporting all freedom in general. This sort of pick and choose approach to freedom is dreadfully hypocritical and indicative of the same rah-rah-go-team bullshit that keeps the powerful in power.

It's too bad really. I will give you credit for being closer to waking up than most others are but you still aren't there yet.

You still haven't answered my question either.







Post#3340 at 01-01-2013 03:57 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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I'm still trying to figure out who is stockpiling AKs, or what their relevance is to this discussion considering I haven't heard of one being used in a significant crime... Well, since Cypress Hill and NWA were bragging about their criminal exploits.







Post#3341 at 01-01-2013 04:21 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post

You still haven't answered my question either.
Maybe I'm not understanding your question.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#3342 at 01-01-2013 04:39 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
I'm still trying to figure out who is stockpiling AKs, or what their relevance is to this discussion considering I haven't heard of one being used in a significant crime... Well, since Cypress Hill and NWA were bragging about their criminal exploits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Holton

Holton, a Gulf War Veteran, was 36 years old when he shot his three young sons and their half-sister (Stephen Edward Holton (12), Brent Holton (10), Eric Holton (6), and Kayla Marie Holton (4)) with a Chinese-made semi-automatic rifle on November 30, 1997, at the garage where he worked in Shelbyville, Tennessee. Holton was divorced, and his ex-wife had custody of the children. About an hour later, Holton turned himself in to the Shelbyville police; he told investigators that he had killed the children because "families should stay together; a father should be with his children." He said he had also planned to kill his ex-wife and then himself, but had changed his mind.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#3343 at 01-01-2013 05:03 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Not that it really matters but you do realize that the Chinese make semi-automatic rifles other than the AK-47 right?

*Edit*

Looks like my guess was correct (I was not familiar with the case), Holton used an SKS rifle. How did I know this? Because the muders happened while the AK-47 was banned.
Last edited by Copperfield; 01-01-2013 at 05:08 PM.







Post#3344 at 01-01-2013 05:06 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
By definition, an AK-47 is not semi-automatic. In order to meet criteria, an assault rifle has to have selective fire, meaning it must be able to switch from semi-auto to either automatic or burst fire with the press of a button or flick of a switch. The minute the term semi-automatic only enters the equation there's no assault rifle.







Post#3345 at 01-01-2013 05:16 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
By definition, an AK-47 is not semi-automatic. In order to meet criteria, an assault rifle has to have selective fire, meaning it must be able to switch from semi-auto to either automatic or burst fire with the press of a button or flick of a switch. The minute the term semi-automatic only enters the equation there's no assault rifle.
There is no such thing as an assault rifle. It's a political euphemism. The term is fabricated, conjured and manufactured by those with an agenda. In other words there is a reason the song doesn't go, "this is my assault rifle, this is my gun."







Post#3346 at 01-01-2013 05:41 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
There is no such thing as an assault rifle. It's a political euphemism. The term is fabricated, conjured and manufactured by those with an agenda. In other words there is a reason the song doesn't go, "this is my assault rifle, this is my gun."
But even political terminology has rules, because ultimately you're going to have to legislate with it. The functional term for assault weapon is a selective fire rifle, because that's what it legislated against last time. As such, it makes for some pretty useless legislation, but it really doesn't affect what most people are in the market for either.







Post#3347 at 01-01-2013 06:36 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
But even political terminology has rules, because ultimately you're going to have to legislate with it. The functional term for assault weapon is a selective fire rifle, because that's what it legislated against last time. As such, it makes for some pretty useless legislation, but it really doesn't affect what most people are in the market for either.
Actually no. Automatic weapons (that is weapons with selective-fire) were covered under the National Firearms Act passed in 1934 and rules were additionally revised in 1986. Under current law civilians may own a fully-automatic firearm provided you are approved by the federal government for special licensing and the weapon was built before 1986.

The 1994 Federal Assault Weapon ban applied only to semi-automatic firearms, named 19 models specifically as banned and banned certain additional criteria. Note that this particular ban really only created pre and post-ban models as already owned weapons were grandfathered in and manufacturers simply started making new weapons which deliberately followed the criteria specified by the government. As an example, a gentleman I go shooting with on a regular basis owns a post-ban AR-15 rifle that was purchased during the ban and was completely legal according to the law. This sort of thing is actually a common occurrence with firearms law.

The term itelf was an invention of politicians and activist types to advance an their agenda by making these weapons sound scary (people won't support banning just-rifles). It's not a technical term, it's a political one.







Post#3348 at 01-01-2013 09:12 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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01-01-2013, 09:12 PM #3348
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So categorically, the assault weapons ban did pretty much nothing, would continue to do nothing, and it's pretty much the 1986 law that has any teeth at all. However, an outright semi-automatic weapon ban woyld pretty much be logistically impossible because of just how many weapons use it. Congratulations war on drugs mentality.







Post#3349 at 01-01-2013 09:23 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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01-01-2013, 09:23 PM #3349
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
So categorically, the assault weapons ban did pretty much nothing, would continue to do nothing, and it's pretty much the 1986 law that has any teeth at all. However, an outright semi-automatic weapon ban woyld pretty much be logistically impossible because of just how many weapons use it. Congratulations war on drugs mentality.
That's why you restrict the size of the ammo clips. If you need a 30-round clip while hunting, you such at hunting.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#3350 at 01-01-2013 10:53 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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01-01-2013, 10:53 PM #3350
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
So categorically, the assault weapons ban did pretty much nothing, would continue to do nothing, and it's pretty much the 1986 law that has any teeth at all. However, an outright semi-automatic weapon ban woyld pretty much be logistically impossible because of just how many weapons use it. Congratulations war on drugs mentality.
Correct. If you would like an example of this in action today recall this picture:

Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
An offer of $100 gift cards, no-questions-asked, by the Los Angeles Police Department in a gun buy-back brought in some bad-boy merchandise to be destroyed:

California still maintains its own law that bans similar weapons and characteristics as the now defunct 1994 law. From a rudimentary glance most or all of those weapons in the picture would be completely legal under California law. Many manufacturers specifically sell California legal variants.
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