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Thread: The Spiral of Violence - Page 139







Post#3451 at 01-10-2013 02:18 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Another victory for the Second Amendment:

http://www2.tbo.com/news/pinellas-ne...-se-ar-603022/







Post#3452 at 01-10-2013 02:41 PM by Joral [at Acworth, GA joined Feb 2009 #posts 152]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
Just bumped into a CNN article, Three areas where Biden and NRA can find common ground.

  • Fully Fund the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.
  • Fully Fund systems tracking people with mental health problems.
  • Persecute serious local gun crimes committed by felons.


Is there anyone opposed to the above?

On the other hand, the NRA opposes banning gun ownership by those on the FBI terrorists watch list. After hearing repeated stories of four year olds unable to fly with their parents as they are on the FBI terrorist watch list, I can sort of sympathize. If one is going to lose a right guaranteed to American citizens, there ought to be a level of proof somewhere in the neighborhood of probable cause to beyond a reasonable doubt. The FBI watch list is and perhaps ought to be at the 'vague suspicion' level.
1. Agreed. I would also be ok with allowing non-FFLs to use NICS to verify private sales. (I'd prefer it, since any time something happens and a private sale ends up with the bad guy getting the gun, it's jumped all over without evidence as malice, when the seller likely can't determine it. If there is evidence the seller knew and did it anyway, then they should be prosecuted as well.)

2. Ok, with caution. A lot of potential for monkeying around on this one, what aspects of mental health disqualify, temporary or permanent, what prevents either side from stacking the deck? (Can only see the anti-gun side here. If you want a gun, you're too unstable to have one...)

3. Never in favor of persecution. Prosecuting serious local gun crimes, yes, whether they were committed by (former) felons or not.

4. Watch list is an area I don't like, exactly for the reasons you mention.
"On the day the storm has just begun I will still hope there are better days to come."







Post#3453 at 01-10-2013 02:44 PM by Joral [at Acworth, GA joined Feb 2009 #posts 152]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
Another victory for the Second Amendment:

http://www2.tbo.com/news/pinellas-ne...-se-ar-603022/
Merciful $deity...

Rule one. (And two for that matter.)
"On the day the storm has just begun I will still hope there are better days to come."







Post#3454 at 01-10-2013 04:25 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
Just bumped into a CNN article, Three areas where Biden and NRA can find common ground.

  • Fully Fund the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.
  • Fully Fund systems tracking people with mental health problems.
  • Persecute serious local gun crimes committed by felons.


Is there anyone opposed to the above?

On the other hand, the NRA opposes banning gun ownership by those on the FBI terrorists watch list. After hearing repeated stories of four year olds unable to fly with their parents as they are on the FBI terrorist watch list, I can sort of sympathize. If one is going to lose a right guaranteed to American citizens, there ought to be a level of proof somewhere in the neighborhood of probable cause to beyond a reasonable doubt. The FBI watch list is and perhaps ought to be at the 'vague suspicion' level.
1) I'm good with.

2) Is highly questionable. There'd have to be a significant amount of of oversight, it'd have to be easy to take people on and off the system, and there'd have to be stringent requirements for objective definitions of people we're denying service, not just a mental health diagnosis in and of itself.

3) I'm not cool with persecuting anyone. If you meant prosecuting, yeah, obviously. Convicted felons shouldn't have guns, and we should do more to make sure they're removed from their possession on conviction.







Post#3455 at 01-10-2013 05:58 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Breaking- High School shooting in CA:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...unty.html?fark







Post#3456 at 01-10-2013 06:05 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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You have to admire Joe Biden being able to enter a den of wolves and deal with them. He did it with the NRA, and with the Republicans. A 74-year old presidential candidate? Who knows!
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3457 at 01-11-2013 12:55 AM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Left Arrow Some ideas...

Quote Originally Posted by Joral View Post
3. Never in favor of persecution. Prosecuting serious local gun crimes, yes, whether they were committed by (former) felons or not.
Yep. I used the wrong word. Should have used prosecuting.

I do agree that #3, tracking people with potentially violent mental problems, would have to be handled very carefully.







Post#3458 at 01-11-2013 04:20 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Breaking from Newsmax.com

PPP: NRA Support Fell After Sandy Hook

A new poll shows that in the three weeks after the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn., the popularity of the National Rifle Association began to drop. Public Policy Polling found that support for the gun advocacy organization fell from 48 percent to 42 percent, while negative views increased from 41 percent to 45 percent.

In its analysis, PPP suggests that the NRA proposal to place armed guards in schools, or to arm teachers and administrators, has driven some of the new dissatisfaction with the NRA.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/poll-nra-s...o_code=11D41-1
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3459 at 01-11-2013 07:28 AM by '58 Flat [at Hardhat From Central Jersey joined Jul 2001 #posts 3,300]
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But who de-institutionalized violent mental patients to begin with?

It wasn't the NRA; it was a bunch of knee-jerk radicals of the type the late Morton Downey Jr. characterized as "pablum pukers."
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.

Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!







Post#3460 at 01-11-2013 11:55 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by '58 Flat View Post
But who de-institutionalized violent mental patients to begin with?

It wasn't the NRA; it was a bunch of knee-jerk radicals of the type the late Morton Downey Jr. characterized as "pablum pukers."
This is a perfect case of bad policy derived directly from good intentions. Yes, we institutionalized far too many people in the past, and the idea that they could be cared-for in the commuintiy seemed right. But once the doors opened, the wallets closed. Now, the harmless live in the park and the dangerous are housed in prison. What a plan.

So, we don't know if the idea is viable in this country. It's never been tried.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#3461 at 01-11-2013 04:16 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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01-11-2013, 04:16 PM #3461
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Post#3462 at 01-11-2013 04:23 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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This guy finally used something *other* than an AR-15:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/us/cal...html?hpt=hp_t1







Post#3463 at 01-12-2013 12:44 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Responsible gun use:



Officers Richard Niven (left) and Jeffrey Smoak handle guns that were bought back at St. Benedict's Church in Oakland. Photo: Michael Short, Special To The Chronicle

Definition of a sick society:

A society that sees 26 children and teachers massacred by a psycho with an assault rifle, and yet still refuses to ban them after years and years of mass shootings.

Syn. The United States of America.

sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick sick
Last edited by Eric the Green; 01-12-2013 at 12:48 AM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3464 at 01-12-2013 07:45 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
Another victory for the Second Amendment:

http://www2.tbo.com/news/pinellas-ne...-se-ar-603022/
Looks like a case of natural selection to me, weeding out the stupid. He violated several rules of handling firearms.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#3465 at 01-12-2013 08:56 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by '58 Flat View Post
But who de-institutionalized violent mental patients to begin with?

It wasn't the NRA; it was a bunch of knee-jerk radicals of the type the late Morton Downey Jr. characterized as "pablum pukers."
After the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, mental wards went from being seen as innocuous settings for 'inconvenient' people to dehumanizing snake pits. People went there for reasons that would never be accepted today.

How real was 'Nurse Ratched'? There has to be some reality behind convincing fiction. The dirty secret that most people in mental wards are there for alcoholism.

The mass release of mental patients served left-wing values (more personal freedom) and right-wing interests (budget cuts) at the same time. Many mental patients were more competent than the mental ward complex would have had us known. Such people were 'cash cows' for the institution -- easy to manage if they could be sedated into complacency. Some others, of course, were foisted onto families who might qualify for SSI payments. But if mental institutions could be corrupt entities whose employees got a vested stake in keeping people incarcerated as long as possible, most people who got a patient lacked the means for dealing with someone with real problems.

People might be competent at some aspects of life yet be utter lunatics on others. In recent times, does Jared Laughner suggest himself? Where does the line separate the cranky from the violently insane?
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#3466 at 01-12-2013 10:36 AM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
Another victory for the Second Amendment:

http://www2.tbo.com/news/pinellas-ne...-se-ar-603022/
This sounds more like a victory for natural selection than anything.

Oh but you were editorializing weren't you.

*Edit* Beaten to it by 3 hours.







Post#3467 at 01-12-2013 10:39 AM by Joral [at Acworth, GA joined Feb 2009 #posts 152]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
This sounds more like a victory for natural selection than anything.

Oh but you were editorializing weren't you.

*Edit* Beaten to it by 3 hours.
You'd be better off sending him a pair of pom poms and a skirt... It would fit his self-selected role.
"On the day the storm has just begun I will still hope there are better days to come."







Post#3468 at 01-13-2013 02:41 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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"And I say to you, it's simple. No-one hunts with an assault rifle! No-one needs 10 bullets to kill a deer! End the madness now... set an example for the rest of the nation! You show them how we lead"

http://youtu.be/oc74IY1pAeE

Go Governor Cuomo! Tell it to those on this site who think hunters and citizens need assault weapons and "semi-automatics." Stop obfuscating the issue! It is "simple." Those who oppose these things, are supporting more little children getting riddled with bullets. If we don't act, expect more of the same.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 01-13-2013 at 02:46 AM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3469 at 01-13-2013 04:28 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
"And I say to you, it's simple. No-one hunts with an assault rifle! No-one needs 10 bullets to kill a deer! End the madness now... set an example for the rest of the nation! You show them how we lead"

http://youtu.be/oc74IY1pAeE

Go Governor Cuomo! Tell it to those on this site who think hunters and citizens need assault weapons and "semi-automatics." Stop obfuscating the issue! It is "simple." Those who oppose these things, are supporting more little children getting riddled with bullets. If we don't act, expect more of the same.
Oh how cute! Cuomo is already angling to be the next guy who gets to routinely order the deaths of little children.







Post#3470 at 01-13-2013 06:55 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by Joral View Post
You'd be better off sending him a pair of pom poms and a skirt... It would fit his self-selected role.
Check with George W. Bush. He may have a spare set left over...







Post#3471 at 01-13-2013 07:17 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
Check with George W. Bush. He may have a spare set left over...
That sound you are hearing is the plane flying right over your head.







Post#3472 at 01-13-2013 09:06 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
Oh how cute! Cuomo is already angling to be the next guy who gets to routinely order the deaths of little children.
You guys who oppose gun control and a "well regulated militia;" you guys are the ones ordering up another one of these massacres. Count on it.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3473 at 01-13-2013 09:49 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
You guys who oppose gun control and a "well regulated militia;" you guys are the ones ordering up another one of these massacres. Count on it.
As it turns out, not nearly as many as you voters do.







Post#3474 at 01-13-2013 09:57 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
No reason not to support the one, if you support the other. Not me, I didn't vote for either.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3475 at 01-13-2013 10:08 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
No reason not to support the one, if you support the other. Not me, I didn't vote for either.
But you do play the game and are a proud and vocal supporter of Barry. Indeed, you stated before the recent election that if you did not live in a state where Barry's victory was certain that you would cast your vote for him.

So how do you feel being a murderer Eric?
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