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Thread: The Spiral of Violence - Page 150







Post#3726 at 01-25-2013 04:49 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Aramea View Post
It is pretty clear that your goal is to end "gun ownership" and not "gun violence".
He has never made that a secret really. More accurately one could say that Eric tends to believe that laws should be changed to make law-abiding citizens unlawful after which time it would be okay for the state to commit gun violence against them. That isn't an unusual desire for many folks. It makes it easier for them to pretend that they have a clear conscience.







Post#3727 at 01-25-2013 05:33 PM by Aramea [at joined Jan 2011 #posts 743]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I am pretty matter-of-fact, but one could well up thinking about a woman alone in her room with a paring knife and a packet of chili powder.







Post#3728 at 01-25-2013 06:14 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
They are probably not mass shootings. The Mother Jones site was thorough, and gave a precise definition of mass shootings from 1982 to today. The numbers from that I listed in my post above. Also remember what I posted that says assaults are rising as guns are rising. They may result in fewer murders only because treatment is better.
My story was based on a University study and written by the AP, an organization that is often hostile to conservatives. Your "study" was compiled by Mother Jones, a neo marxist publication with an agenda to rid our society of guns....who is more credible here?







Post#3729 at 01-25-2013 06:23 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
They are probably not mass shootings. The Mother Jones site was thorough, and gave a precise definition of mass shootings from 1982 to today. The numbers from that I listed in my post above. Also remember what I posted that says assaults are rising as guns are rising. They may result in fewer murders only because treatment is better.
Aggravated assaults have decreased since 2002 by 22%....sorry your more assaults, less deaths meme is incorrect..

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...avated-assault
Last edited by Weave; 01-25-2013 at 06:45 PM.







Post#3730 at 01-25-2013 07:03 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Even if mass shootings are on the decline, nothing says that they need be ignored in public policy.
Nobody said they shouldnt be addressed. But phony, non effective gun bans wont make a difference...







Post#3731 at 01-25-2013 09:48 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Aggravated assaults have decreased since 2002 by 22%....sorry your more assaults, less deaths meme is incorrect..

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...avated-assault
No it isn't. The stat I quoted was how many assaults from guns result in hospitalization. More people died in the past from these than today.

Like I said, I'll take my left wing mag over your right wing ones. Both mags can quote things. Stats are stats.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3732 at 01-25-2013 09:50 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
He has never made that a secret really. More accurately one could say that Eric tends to believe that laws should be changed to make law-abiding citizens unlawful after which time it would be okay for the state to commit gun violence against them. That isn't an unusual desire for many folks. It makes it easier for them to pretend that they have a clear conscience.
I don't think that's how Obama's or Feinstein's proposals would work. I specifically stated I am not in favor of gun violence to enforce laws against gun violence. How many times do I have to say it before you get it, mr. copperfield?
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3733 at 01-25-2013 09:51 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
There are no "responsible gun owners." Anyone with any sense of responsibility today would give up their guns, and exile themselves from the gun culture. Guns serve no purpose at all, for anyone.
I'm a gun owner who supports gun control and this is just a stupid post. Shit like this just makes the gun nuts even more hysterical because they think it's "proof" that the government wants to take away their guns.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#3734 at 01-25-2013 09:53 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Nobody said they shouldnt be addressed. But phony, non effective gun bans wont make a difference...
Without them the problem will not be addressed. They are not phony, and they are effective. I posted a report about the effectiveness of the 1994-2004 ban already. Nobody needs an assault rifle to defend their home, kill a jackrabbit or hunt deer.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3735 at 01-25-2013 09:54 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Aramea View Post
But, Eric, guns do have other uses, which you try to waive off. You just dismiss them. Why should a farmer allow foxes to kill his chickens? Why should a woman living alone be a sitting duck for her crazy ex to come rape and murder? These are not your decisions to make. Do you know anything about farming? Dogs are useful on farms, but they have to be managed, just like any other tool. I can't imagine that there is a single farm out there without at least a shotgun around.
Yup. I grew up in a rural area. farmers need guns to deal with foxes, coyotes, and other predatory vermin.

As the vice president said, a shotgun is a much better defensive weapon than an AR-15.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#3736 at 01-25-2013 10:02 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
I don't think that's how Obama's or Feinstein's proposals would work. I specifically stated I am not in favor of gun violence to enforce laws against gun violence. How many times do I have to say it before you get it, mr. copperfield?
As many times as it takes for you to stop contradicting your other statements I suppose.







Post#3737 at 01-25-2013 10:04 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Short term vs. long term; laws vs ideals.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3738 at 01-25-2013 10:04 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
As the vice president said, a shotgun is a much better defensive weapon than an AR-15.
I agree. That's why everyone should have one of these.







Post#3739 at 01-25-2013 10:23 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
I agree. That's why everyone should have one of these.
I use a shotgun for duck and goose hunting and I wouldn't trust myself with THAT thing, LOL! I'd probably accidentally kill somebody!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#3740 at 01-25-2013 10:33 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
I use a shotgun for duck and goose hunting and I wouldn't trust myself with THAT thing, LOL! I'd probably accidentally kill somebody!
That's funny, mine has never killed anyone.

Actually I've done a lot of skeet shooting with it. Great control and accuracy.







Post#3741 at 01-25-2013 11:29 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
Another persecuted responsible gun owner:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/r...lN6PtXOSTGseFL
I couldn't help but notice that you didn't post this article. Why not?

Or this one. (no comment from Cuomo yet)

Or this one.

Or this one.

Or this, this (more than 10 rounds fired, fortunately for the kids in the house he didn't live in NY), this, this, this, this, this, this (an old lady with a .44 is a woman after my own heart), this, this, this, this... I'll be honest, there are thousands of these.







Post#3742 at 01-26-2013 02:45 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Put a gun in a "law-abiding citizen," and the chances of him becoming a criminal are increased.

There are not two species of humans, "law-abiding citizens" and "criminals."
We have atleast three human species, the good ones, the bad ones and the liberals who aren't able to identify or figure out the differences between the two of them.







Post#3743 at 01-26-2013 03:06 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Without them the problem will not be addressed. They are not phony, and they are effective. I posted a report about the effectiveness of the 1994-2004 ban already. Nobody needs an assault rifle to defend their home, kill a jackrabbit or hunt deer.
Just in case we're right about the future. I'd own one to defend a neighborhood that you currently don't live in. As far as home defense, I'd prefer to use a shotgun or a pistol.







Post#3744 at 01-26-2013 04:19 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Red is now the color of Republicans, so I am Eric the Green, because I'm a Green Party member. Get it?
I have always used Eric the Obtuse but Eric the Oblivious would also work since his contact with the universe the rest of us live in is sporadic at best.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#3745 at 01-26-2013 04:35 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
You are choosing to live in fear of "scary guns" which is of course your right to do so. You also are willing to submit to criminals and concievably a possible tyranical govt. I, like my Scots-Irish ancestors refuse to live in this fashion. I take responsibility for my welfare and hope not to have to rely on the police to protect me as where I live they are up tp 45 minutes away in a crisis....
Trusting a cop is a dicey proposition these days and can get you killed, here is a sampling of their activities. I know from personal experience that cops cover up for each other and rarely get prosecuted much less convicted. Come to think of it, I have been on a jury several times and watched them lie and then had dumb-shit jurors make excuses for it. It is simply amazing how much a badge and funny costume increases your credibility in the face of contradictory physical evidence with some people. I expect Eric the Obtuse would be one of them.
Last edited by Galen; 01-26-2013 at 05:08 AM. Reason: Grammar error.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#3746 at 01-26-2013 04:41 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Without them the problem will not be addressed. They are not phony, and they are effective. I posted a report about the effectiveness of the 1994-2004 ban already. Nobody needs an assault rifle to defend their home, kill a jackrabbit or hunt deer.
Ranchers find them really handy for dealing with coyotes and other dogs that are causing them problems, but you almost certainly have never lived where ranching was going on and are completely clueless, as usual. Come to think of the such rifles are useful in implementing the 3S (shoot, shovel and shut up) strategy when a nominally endangered species would shut down their operations.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#3747 at 01-26-2013 04:48 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
I agree. That's why everyone should have one of these.
Excellent choice! I know a person who has one of these and he is very happy with it.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#3748 at 01-26-2013 04:55 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
I use a shotgun for duck and goose hunting and I wouldn't trust myself with THAT thing, LOL! I'd probably accidentally kill somebody!
It is not much different than any other auto-loading shotgun in usage except for the detachable magazine. It is based on the AK-47 which is legendary for its reliability, not a bad thing for self-defense. Indeed, that is the main reason for owning one since in terms of firepower it is the same as any other shotgun.
Last edited by Galen; 01-26-2013 at 05:09 AM. Reason: Cleaned up sentence strucure.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#3749 at 01-26-2013 05:04 AM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
It is not much different than any other auto-loading in terms of use shotgun except for the detachable magazine. It is based on the AK-47 which is legendary for its reliability, not a bad thing for self-defense. Indeed, that is the main reason for owning one since in terms of firepower it is the same as any other shotgun.
Those are illegal where I live on both barrel length and action. Personally I could never see hunting with one, inpart because of the barrel length and in part because to me the pump is just part of the motion at this point, without it I might forget to fire. Skeet would be fun, though.







Post#3750 at 01-26-2013 07:28 AM by '58 Flat [at Hardhat From Central Jersey joined Jul 2001 #posts 3,300]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
We will be free when we are willing to face up to our problem of violence, and act to correct it. To do that we must join the rest of the developed world and give up our attachment to guns. There is no other way. We need to stop avoiding what we need to do. Telling Americans to love it as it is or leave, is just another way of avoiding the issue.


I say let the Homelanders address this in the upcoming 1T - or even the New Idealists in the next 2T.

Going after the Second Amendment now risks another Civil War anomaly - to say nothing of another Civil War itself.
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.

Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!
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