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Thread: The Spiral of Violence - Page 179







Post#4451 at 10-24-2013 11:12 AM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
He didn't "pull a gun on a cop", he (a 13 year old boy) was carrying a toy and wasn't hurting anyone.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/justic...html?hpt=hp_t2

A Washington state middle school boy was arrested Wednesday and faces an attempted murder charge, after he brought 400 rounds of ammunition, multiple knives and a handgun to his school, police said.







Post#4452 at 10-24-2013 11:13 AM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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could not resist the double smack.







Post#4453 at 10-24-2013 11:22 AM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
and you missed this one:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/justic...html?hpt=hp_t2


A Washington state middle school boy was arrested Wednesday and faces an attempted murder charge, after he brought 400 rounds of ammunition, multiple knives and a handgun to his school, police said. The 11-year-old was booked into a juvenile detention facility after the incident that caused the lockdown of Frontier Middle School, Vancouver Police said.

Not a fake gun, this time.

My congrats to the home defender.
And you missed all three of these.







Post#4454 at 10-24-2013 11:40 AM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
And you missed all three of these.
This is fun! Now I really have an excuse to slack at work!







Post#4455 at 10-24-2013 11:55 AM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Now, for serious:

Do you think I would have gotten within handshaking distance of Kit Bond if I were carrying?

If I had been entering and exiting my workplace with a weapon, it would have gotten quite negative. (Skyscrapers with huge banks and big, powerful law firms in them seem to be just a little paranoid, nowadays) An arrest, or worse. You're nuts, if you think that having weapons around is some kind of deflector shield from bad luck.

And no weapon kept in the car, either. Except an umbrella. It's more useful. The car is in an urban parking garage, and is more likely to be broken into/stolen.

Except to go shooting at the range, the weapons do not leave the house. If my crazy ex shows up and kills me, I won't have to worry about being a burden/block to posterity.

It's all about the paranoia, and insecurity, and hate. For me, if my number is up, my number is up. That's it.







Post#4456 at 10-24-2013 12:10 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
... It's all about the paranoia, and insecurity, and hate. For me, if my number is up, my number is up. That's it.
I'm not going to own, no less carry, a gun. I don't care for them, even though I'm a pretty fair shot. My bearded uncle insisted that I must learn to use a wide variety of guns, so I did. Since we parted company, I've been disarmed.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#4457 at 10-24-2013 12:15 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...dents/3174121/

Three California elementary school students suffered minor injuries Wednesday when a gun mounted on a police motorcycle discharged during a safety demonstration at an anti-drug event.
The students were not hit by gunfire in the "accidental misfire" at Newman Elementary School about 11:15 a.m. PT, said Chino Police Department spokeswoman Tamrin Olden. Two were treated at a hospital for cuts and one was treated for cuts and scrapes at the school, said a fire district spokeswoman.
"The weapon was mounted to a police motorcycle on display during Red Ribbon Week activities," a nationwide drug-prevention campaign for students, Olden said in a statement that did not explain how the gun discharged or why a loaded weapon was brought into the school. Police and school officials are investigating.
"We're still sorting out the extent of the injuries and how it happened," Olden told the Los Angeles Times.
"It's kind of strange that a gun would have been accessible, or not cleared, prior to doing the demonstration," parent Tim Everman told KTLA-TV when he came to get his son.







Post#4458 at 10-24-2013 01:22 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
He didn't "pull a gun on a cop", he (a 13 year old boy) was carrying a toy and wasn't hurting anyone.
Pull even a toy gun on a cop -- and die.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#4459 at 10-24-2013 01:38 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
Now, for serious:

Do you think I would have gotten within handshaking distance of Kit Bond if I were carrying?

If I had been entering and exiting my workplace with a weapon, it would have gotten quite negative. (Skyscrapers with huge banks and big, powerful law firms in them seem to be just a little paranoid, nowadays) An arrest, or worse. You're nuts, if you think that having weapons around is some kind of deflector shield from bad luck.

And no weapon kept in the car, either. Except an umbrella. It's more useful. The car is in an urban parking garage, and is more likely to be broken into/stolen.

Except to go shooting at the range, the weapons do not leave the house. If my crazy ex shows up and kills me, I won't have to worry about being a burden/block to posterity.

It's all about the paranoia, and insecurity, and hate. For me, if my number is up, my number is up. That's it.
That's not an indictment of carrying a firearm. It's an indictment of the modern politician believing he or she is deserving of a special-protected status not afforded to the peons they rule over. What is so special about a former Senator that would afford him his own praetorian guard to keep the little people away? Were you intending to visit harm upon him (armed or otherwise)? Clearly not. Politicians shouldn't be treated like royalty; they should be treated like servants.

As for firearms in the workplace, our building has around a thousand employees. Several carry concealed firearms into the building each and every workday. Several more keep firearms in their vehicles right out in the parking lot. Not a single incident of violence, ever. Indeed, if anyone actually wanted to start some shit there, it would be over very quickly.







Post#4460 at 10-24-2013 01:54 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Pull even a toy gun on a cop -- and die.
That's a pretty harsh rule. But at least you are honest enough to throw out the whole "to protect and serve" nonsense right up front. What's wrong with a few dead children as long as the child killers are paid agents of the state, performing their sacred duty to force a little obedience and terror into the lives of those poor, subordinate serfs?

Since you appear to support child killing I have to ask: Would you have the guts to do the killing yourself or are you simply content to hire that service out to sociopaths?







Post#4461 at 10-24-2013 02:33 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
As for firearms in the workplace, our building has around a thousand employees. Several carry concealed firearms into the building each and every workday. Several more keep firearms in their vehicles right out in the parking lot. Not a single incident of violence, ever. Indeed, if anyone actually wanted to start some shit there, it would be over very quickly.
So if anyone actually uses a gun, that is murder or violence, but if they only threaten to use one and arm themselves to the teeth, then it's not. But a politician or a state should never do either one. I see.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4462 at 10-24-2013 02:56 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
That's a pretty harsh rule. But at least you are honest enough to throw out the whole "to protect and serve" nonsense right up front. What's wrong with a few dead children as long as the child killers are paid agents of the state, performing their sacred duty to force a little obedience and terror into the lives of those poor, subordinate serfs?

Since you appear to support child killing I have to ask: Would you have the guts to do the killing yourself or are you simply content to hire that service out to sociopaths?
Cops have the right to defend themselves. In my middle-class world we all know enough to not bait the police, let alone threaten them. I got into a vehicle accident a couple years ago that I believe was not my fault (I was going in the right lane passing a pickup truck that was towing a boat to a boat launch, and that vehicle seemed headed for a gas station on the left side of the road. The driver of the pickup clipped me while making a right turn from the left lane and I was cited for a moving violation. I figured that the driver of that vehicle was headed to the gas station to fuel the truck, the boat, or both, and if he was in the left lane and had the turn signal indicating a right turn, the turn signal was to the right as a mistake. If that truck and were partly in the right lane I would have been obliged to stop and allow the turn. I still got the ticket, and I told the insurance agent "Do you think that I am going to argue with a cop?"

When some has a gun pointed at you and the context is unpredictable and not obviously benign, and you are an armed cop -- you rightly assume the worst. You obviously would not interfere with kids playing "cops and robbers", "war", or "Cowboys and Indians". Small children have killed cops by shooting them with real guns and real bullets, and it is always possible that someone with a childlike build could be an adult dwarf with very bad attitudes. You would be surprised at how adult some adolescents look and act. I never got carded for alcohol even though I was eighteen (when it was legal for eighteen-year-olds to drink alcoholic beverages. I acted like a thirty-year-old when I was eighteen.

I am one of the last to excuse brutal cops. I want bad cops out of the police force. I don't want bad cops hired*, and I want them fired fast after any abuse of human rights. Police work pays well -- and in view of the life-and-death responsibilities of cops, they deserve good pay. But we all need to know the rules, one of which is to not force a cop to defend himself. If the cop succeeds in defending himself you are dead. If the cop fails at that and gets killed you are guilty of first-degree murder and your life is forfeit until you are arrested in a state without capital punishment, and cop-killing is one crime that gets one a death sentence in some states.

*A favored job choice for a sociopath is "police officer" because of the power that cops have over people. Many eventual murderers have applied for police jobs.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#4463 at 10-24-2013 02:56 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
So if anyone actually uses a gun, that is murder or violence, but if they only threaten to use one and arm themselves to the teeth, then it's not. But a politician or a state should never do either one. I see.
Since you appear to be confused of the meanings of these words, I would suggest you investigate the definitions of murder and violence. Once you complete that task, go back and read exactly what a wrote (not what you think I wrote).







Post#4464 at 10-24-2013 03:03 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Cops have the right to defend themselves. In my middle-class world we all know enough to not bait the police, let alone threaten them. I got into a vehicle accident a couple years ago that I believe was not my fault (I was going in the right lane passing a pickup truck that was towing a boat to a boat launch, and that vehicle seemed headed for a gas station on the left side of the road. The driver of the pickup clipped me while making a right turn from the left lane and I was cited for a moving violation. I figured that the driver of that vehicle was headed to the gas station to fuel the truck, the boat, or both, and if he was in the left lane and had the turn signal indicating a right turn, the turn signal was to the right as a mistake. If that truck and were partly in the right lane I would have been obliged to stop and allow the turn. I still got the ticket, and I told the insurance agent "Do you think that I am going to argue with a cop?"

When some has a gun pointed at you and the context is unpredictable and not obviously benign, and you are an armed cop -- you rightly assume the worst. You obviously would not interfere with kids playing "cops and robbers", "war", or "Cowboys and Indians". Small children have killed cops by shooting them with real guns and real bullets, and it is always possible that someone with a childlike build could be an adult dwarf with very bad attitudes. You would be surprised at how adult some adolescents look and act. I never got carded for alcohol even though I was eighteen (when it was legal for eighteen-year-olds to drink alcoholic beverages. I acted like a thirty-year-old when I was eighteen.

I am one of the last to excuse brutal cops. I want bad cops out of the police force. I don't want bad cops hired*, and I want them fired fast after any abuse of human rights. Police work pays well -- and in view of the life-and-death responsibilities of cops, they deserve good pay. But we all need to know the rules, one of which is to not force a cop to defend himself. If the cop succeeds in defending himself you are dead. If the cop fails at that and gets killed you are guilty of first-degree murder and your life is forfeit until you are arrested in a state without capital punishment, and cop-killing is one crime that gets one a death sentence in some states.

*A favored job choice for a sociopath is "police officer" because of the power that cops have over people. Many eventual murderers have applied for police jobs.
Cops have a right to defend themselves from children carrying toys? Really? Exactly what danger were the police in? If the person who shot the child carrying a toy was not a cop would that be okay with you?

While you think hard about that concept, I'll give you another to think about. Does a non-cop have a right to defend themselves against a cop? If not, why not?







Post#4465 at 10-24-2013 04:48 PM by Danilynn [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 855]
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given the way the cops are behaving see here :http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...cal&id=9298051 I think people should have the right to defend themselves.







Post#4466 at 10-24-2013 10:57 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
Since you appear to be confused of the meanings of these words, I would suggest you investigate the definitions of murder and violence. Once you complete that task, go back and read exactly what a wrote (not what you think I wrote).
You wrote:

As for firearms in the workplace, our building has around a thousand employees. Several carry concealed firearms into the building each and every workday. Several more keep firearms in their vehicles right out in the parking lot. Not a single incident of violence, ever.
You are the one who used the word violence. Word parsing is irrelevant to the issues, as usual.

You are the one who says any act by any government ever, is an act of "violence." Obviously, you don't approve of violence, unless it is by individuals carrying guns in supposed "self-defense." What a lot of we more-liberal folks point out, with the facts on our side, is that more people carrying or possessing guns, itself means more violence (and more murder).

If cops are misbehaving, as they sometimes do, then there ought to be civilian review boards, and cops should be convicted instead of let off scot free whenever they misbehave and hurt or kill people. Unfortunately, in this conservative country, this is not the reality. Gunfights between cops and citizens are not likely to turn out well for the citizens. Nor generally do gunfights turn out well between citizens and criminals.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4467 at 10-25-2013 06:30 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
You wrote:


You are the one who used the word violence. Word parsing is irrelevant to the issues, as usual.
Indeed, self-defense is almost invariably a violent act, and often as violent as a horrific crime. Self defense is excusable when submission to the violence of an attacker is out of the question and evasion is impossible.

(Copperfield is) the one who says any act by any government ever, is an act of "violence." Obviously, you don't approve of violence, unless it is by individuals carrying guns in supposed "self-defense." What a lot of we more-liberal folks point out, with the facts on our side, is that more people carrying or possessing guns, itself means more violence (and more murder).
As a rule, the question with self-defense is not so much whether it is violent but instead whether it is excusable. Of course the person who provokes self-defense may be just as dead as the victim of a murder. But somehow we recognize that someone who poses the threat of death or severe injury on someone else has lost some inherent rights. Even an empty threat (an unloaded gun pointed at one) that causes one to believe oneself in peril of death or severe injury can justify a response in extreme violence.

If cops are misbehaving, as they sometimes do, then there ought to be civilian review boards, and cops should be convicted instead of let off scot free whenever they misbehave and hurt or kill people. Unfortunately, in this conservative country, this is not the reality. Gunfights between cops and citizens are not likely to turn out well for the citizens. Nor generally do gunfights turn out well between citizens and criminals.
The police need to be trustworthy enough that someone who drops the gun will not be shot. One basic rule needs be observed: never pose a lethal or crippling threat to a cop if you wish to live.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#4468 at 10-26-2013 12:18 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
One basic rule needs be observed: never pose a lethal or crippling threat to a cop if you wish to live.
In exactly the same sense, never pet a rabid dog if you want to stay healthy. Then again, in the case of the dog, people have the good sense not to let them roam around freely, and to put them down whenever the occasion arises.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

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is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#4469 at 10-26-2013 02:06 PM by Danilynn [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 855]
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the cops are even a danger to themselves and their co-workers: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53378832







Post#4470 at 10-26-2013 03:41 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
You are the one who used the word violence. Word parsing is irrelevant to the issues, as usual.
Indeed I did. I used it in the following sentence:

Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield
Not a single incident of violence, ever.
To those with reading comprehension skills, this indicates a lack of violence.

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
You are the one who says any act by any government ever, is an act of "violence." Obviously, you don't approve of violence, unless it is by individuals carrying guns in supposed "self-defense." What a lot of we more-liberal folks point out, with the facts on our side, is that more people carrying or possessing guns, itself means more violence (and more murder).
As has been shown statistically on this very thread (and anecdotally, for example: my workplace), that isn't the case. What logic tends to show is that inanimate objects don't cause violence. Violent people being violent cause violence. And yes, self-defense is an entirely acceptable reason to commit violence against another. Protecting family and loved ones from harm would be another. In fact, I consider those two specific scenarios to be a moral obligation of an individual.







Post#4471 at 10-26-2013 03:46 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
One basic rule needs be observed: never pose a lethal or crippling threat to a cop if you wish to live.
Now pay attention boys and girls (and not just to the irony here) because it is important that you be able to spot them when they appear. This is exactly the sort of thing you can expect actual fascists and totalitarians to say.







Post#4472 at 10-26-2013 10:15 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
Now pay attention boys and girls (and not just to the irony here) because it is important that you be able to spot them when they appear. This is exactly the sort of thing you can expect actual fascists and totalitarians to say.
If I said, "never provoke a large animal, especially a predator", would that be 'fascist' or 'totalitarian'?

A few years ago some fools in the San Francisco Zoo tried humiliate some of the Big Cats -- and roared at the tigers and threw stuff into their enclosure. Those tigers knew the rules -- their enclosure is theirs to enjoy with some safety. There's a large barrier to establish the distance. But the fools broke the usual trust, and one of the tigers somehow got over the barrier and chased down the fools... and killed two of them.

Many people have animals similar in build and behavior to tigers, and they too are typical large carnivores -- with power, speed, strength, ability, cunning, intelligence, aggression, territoriality, and voracity with sharp teeth and claws. But rather than keeping them behind large barriers they keep those potentially lethal beasts in flimsy enclosures that those animals are known to knock down, vault, scale, or burrow under. They are dogs, animals of extreme strength and power for their size. Do something stupid to a dog and you can get badly hurt. You don't want to turn Man's Best Friend into the Other Big Cat.

I once went to a door on legitimate business one day (US Census) and found four 80-pound dogs behind a typical metal door on a weekday. The owners were not at home, and I wanted to ascertain whether there were people living in a shed on the rural property. (I once found someone living in a chicken coop!) I was concerned about the strength of the latch, because if it broke, I was on their territory and they might kill me. Four 80-pound dogs is roughly one 320-pound tiger if the dogs attack all at once. I didn't stay long enough to ascertain the breed of dog -- but it didn't matter whether the dogs were Rottweilers, Dobermans, or German Leopards. I had no desire to experience 320 pounds of apex predator attacking me.

I don't know if you have seen a series of ads for a meat snack in which some dolts "Mess With Sasquatch", a mythical creature with human sensibilities but superhuman strength. "Sasquatch" always strikes back harder. Yes, those are stupid ads, and they suggest that the people who consume meat snacks are toward the low end in most measures of intelligence and discretion.

Life-and-death decisions practically compel over-reaction. Most of us know enough that cops can make our lives miserable. But thin carefully -- there are people whose lives need to be made miserable, like the operator of 'your friendly neighborhood meth lab' or the creep who beats his wife or molests children. I want such people as armed robbers to fear the cops. If there is a bar-room brawl, whom do you call? A plumber? A CPA? A pharmacist? The Distinguished Professor of Archaeology? Santa Claus?

Do nothing stupid in the presence of the cops and do nothing that requires their attention and your biggest problem may be that you occasionally drive too fast, park where you are unwelcome, or have one too many drinks before driving and get a ticket or get pulled over.

Law and order is the first civil right. Without law and order, any formal civil liberty on paper is as meaningless as a deed to property at 38N latitude, 160W longitude. Most likely some lynch mob or death squad determines what is acceptable and what isn't. Property is completely insecure unless it has machine guns surrounding it. Bombings of places of worship make a travesty of freedom of religion. Politicians, journalists, and writers can be shot at will. Instead of a jury trial with a judge and attorneys one has a sick spectacle in which someone calls out "He's guilty -- hang him!" and such is done.

Don't tell me that the Second Amendment makes the other rights real. Where law does not exist, he who has the most or most powerful guns and the most willing to use them gets his way.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#4473 at 10-27-2013 01:02 AM by Danilynn [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 855]
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Pbrower, with all due respect, the media coverage I have seen of cop behavior in just the last 2 years has caused me to lose all respect for them.

That in and of itself is extremely hard for me to reconcile, my father and uncle were city beat cops for most and all of their lives respectively.

But because of them I know gun safety taught to me at a very early age. Service revolvers were common in my childhood home. I grew up around guns and the uncertainty of if my daddy would come home from work.

So saying I do not trust cops now is a hard thing to say. But I do not. I'll take my chances defending my own home and life. Should or if the need ever arise that I have to call 911, it will be after I get done defending my own life and not before, and most likely there would not be need for anything more than a coroner.

I have all my permits in place for conceal carry and my state recently went open carry. I do whenever possible.

My oldest daughter got in trouble back before her last hospitalization with her mental illness, we had to go to court over it.
The day of the hearing, was the day before I had emergency surgery. I was sick and throwing up, I kneelt down on the floor in the hallway of chancery court to keep from passing out. The cops treated me like a criminal, even though I was there as the guardian/parent of an accused for a commitment hearing. The cop told me to stand, I tried and fell back against the wall and slid to the floor. He manhandled me to my feet and threatened me with arrest because he told me to be "dope-sick" somewhere else and I could "come down from whatever fucking shit I was on in the county jail" and would get to do it there if I did not stand up "right fucking now bitch". Those are all direct quotes.

Never once was I asked as I tried to get up and stand without fainting if I was ok. Not once.

So I think the caliber of cops we have now is somewhere between pond scum and jack booted thugs. I'll take my chances with the non badged out thugs rather than the ones that can shoot 13 year old kids dead and unarmed mentally ill mothers in DC dead with no repercusions.







Post#4474 at 10-27-2013 02:36 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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10-27-2013, 02:36 AM #4474
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
Now pay attention boys and girls (and not just to the irony here) because it is important that you be able to spot them when they appear. This is exactly the sort of thing you can expect actual fascists and totalitarians to say.
Or that anyone would any sense would say.

Thank goodness I don't live in Mississippi. It sounds like a jungle.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4475 at 10-27-2013 02:37 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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10-27-2013, 02:37 AM #4475
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
As has been shown statistically on this very thread (and anecdotally, for example: my workplace), that isn't the case. What logic tends to show is that inanimate objects don't cause violence. Violent people being violent cause violence. And yes, self-defense is an entirely acceptable reason to commit violence against another. Protecting family and loved ones from harm would be another. In fact, I consider those two specific scenarios to be a moral obligation of an individual.
Stats and logic show the opposite. Yes, self-defense is justified. Causing more violence by relying on citizen armament for self-defense, is not.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece
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