I don't much care whether the sentiment was racist or not. Bottom line: the "Mexican" who died was a baby. For someone to sneer at the death of a toddler, regardless of what color he was, is, from where I sit, beyond heartless.Originally Posted by The Rani
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
[additional context added in bold]
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc ętre dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant ŕ moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce ętre dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch
"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy
"[it] is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky
Cheering, where? Not on this forum, I don't think.
Unless you're talking about the Somali pirates, of course. On that, what else are we supposed to do? And why would it matter if they were brown Somalis, or sunburned Englishmen?
Last edited by Roadbldr '59; 05-02-2009 at 01:33 PM.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
Guess you aren't very maternal. Whatever works... different strokes, you know.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
Those brown Somali teenagers had hijacked a ship and held the captain at gunpoint. Sorry. And I'd have said the same if they were Swedish teenagers in a longship. Except that these days nobody would believe the Swedes were serious. Everyone is sure the Somalis were serious.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."
"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.
No, Rani, no. There's a serious difference between toddlers and teenagers, especially teenagers with guns. Unless you hold with Cromwell's "nits make lice" theory - or was that Simon de Montfort confronted with Cathar-country civilians? - there is a difference.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."
"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.
Hope not.
I had a delicious quesadilla for dinner this evening, made in part from the smoked pulled carcass of one of Rani's Porcine-American friends
Last edited by Roadbldr '59; 05-03-2009 at 06:27 AM.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
A fine line...
I consider it fairly obvious that if the same bug is found in both species, it has jumped at least the once. However, most of the population doesn't get at all close to a pig as it sneezes. This is also a respiratory bug, which wouldn't be transmitted through the eating of meat.
The wording of the claim is in my opinion inappropriate, but at this time I think the emphasis should be on human to human spreading. This is not to say that some of the defenders of pork factory farming aren't a bit out of line with their claims.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc ętre dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant ŕ moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce ętre dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch
"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy
"[it] is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky
Now, Rani beat me to the punch to provide Playwrite the usual well-deserved slap upside his head:
However, although Rani touched on this:
...she missed a few points:
1) That Mexican 23 month-old's parents were free to seek medical care in MEXICO;
2) There was space between Mexico and that hospital facility in which to infect Americans (of various ethnic descents, assuming that PW is genuinely worried about that, which I doubt). Apparently, it's a real joy to track all that down:
http://www.wreg.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-as-hong-kong-swine-flu,0,5884934.story?track=rss
3) The best place to pick up (or spread) any illness is (drumroll, please...) A HOSPITAL, and one of the best places to pick up (or spread) an illness in a hospital is... (drumroll, please) the waiting room.
Some things in medicine have NOT changed since Pasteur & Lister.
We'll have plenty of time to see the results. So far, I haven't heard of any Americans failing victim to letting that kid into the country.
-And if that toddler infected others, then you'd have the opportunity to offer your heart those victims, too. It must be nice to luxuriate in the privilige of not having to worry about the life & death consequences of your decisions.
Congatulations.
..to which GB replied:
-Not exactly (or incompletely..); the proper distinction in how you feel, is that between the good & innocent (a toddler), and the evil & guilty (armed hostage takers).
I see: brown skin, India descent - okay; brown skin, dead Mexican toddler, not.
I'm not in the "Freedom Tent" to understand the 'wide array' of discernment that is acceptable. I, too, can only stand outside and ask, "what the hell?" -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-O1e6fqk-0
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
Obviously spoken from a man who has no children of his own. A parent is going to do whatever they can for a child.
Yea, right.
As I said, you have 50 kids bringing it back from Mexico to the the Nation's largest Catholic school (3000 students) in the middle of the most dense city in the country, NYC, which still has the largest number of confirmed cases; and you want to not only focus, but tried to imply as the primary source, a Mexican baby in BF-nowhere.
In the middle of national health crisis, its great to know we can count on asses on the Right to push their bigot agenda -
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30467300/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqzCvyNbYz4Amid swine flu outbreak, racism goes viral
Anti-immigrant hatred spreads on talk radio, Web sites
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
-And those parents were free to do so; in Mexico. From the looks of things, the kid shouldn't have been brought into the country to begin with:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hz-vH6PI3bg1rJNVs11Q7lnMFq3wD97SA74O1
There are hospitals in Mexico, and apothecaries, too. Perhaps Playwrite doesn't know that.
For some reason, PW isn't concerned about other children whose health was (is) threatened, only about the one child who could have gotten care in his own country, but isn't an American.
Not to mention the chaos:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hz-vH6PI3bg1rJNVs11Q7lnMFq3wD97SA74O1
-In the middle of a national helath crisis, it's great to know that we can count on asses of the Left to push their mysterious agenda. Since we've established that he doesn't care about who might get sick, it's obviously not on humanitarian grounds.
-Ho hum.
1) I didn't say he was the "sole" source, but basic hygiene (and common sense) tells you to count down the number of vectors as much as you can, and this one, where none of the peope involved were Americans, should have been an easily prevented vector.
Or maybe PW doen't understand basic hygiene.
2) I only "focused" on it, after PW brought it up in one of his tirades:
...you can tell when PW is in rhetorical trouble, because he starts wailing about the "unfair" popularity of FOX News.
How dare they!
You moron, the very link you provided says the family was here to visit relatives. It says nothing about their visit being illegal. It says nothing about their seeking medical attention as the initial purpose.-And those parents were free to do so; in Mexico. From the looks of things, the kid shouldn't have been brought into the country to begin with:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hz-vH6PI3bg1rJNVs11Q7lnMFq3wD97SA74O1
There are hospitals in Mexico, and apothecaries, too. Perhaps Playwrite doesn't know that.
For some reason, PW isn't concerned about other children whose health was (is) threatened, only about the one child who could have gotten care in his own country, but isn't an American.
Not to mention the chaos:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hz-vH6PI3bg1rJNVs11Q7lnMFq3wD97SA74O1
-In the middle of a national helath crisis, it's great to know that we can count on asses of the Left to push their mysterious agenda. Since we've established that he doesn't care about who might get sick, it's obviously not on humanitarian grounds.
-Ho hum.
1) I didn't say he was the "sole" source, but basic hygiene (and common sense) tells you to count down the number of vectors as much as you can, and this one, where none of the peope involved were Americans, should have been an easily prevented vector.
Or maybe PW doen't understand basic hygiene.
2) I only "focused" on it, after PW brought it up in one of his tirades:
...you can tell when PW is in rhetorical trouble, because he starts wailing about the "unfair" popularity of FOX News.
How dare they!
It says some early signs were present when they came to visit, but it was later, once they were here, that they determined it was serious. If you were a parent (God, let's be thankful that's not the case), you'd have some experience that kids are always having elevated temperatures that come and go; you don't go tearing off to the hospital over that and you certainly don't cross international borders to seek medical attention.
Essentially, you are suggesting that they should have traveled back into Mexico once they determined the kid was really sick. From a public health or individual health perspective that is really stupid and shows that you are both an idiot and really don't give a rat's ass about this other than to further your right wing nut bigot agenda.
Further, the link you posted talks of two brothers in Boston coming down with the virus after visiting Mexico. If you could take the bigot blinders off, you might notice that this has been the most often reported link (e.g., 50 students in NYC). Again, not a single word or concern from you of the MILLIONS who have visited Mexico in the middle of Spring Break high season and returned to the US as possible carriers. NOT A SINGLE MENTION from you of how mathematically that route has to have swamped anything coming from illegal immigrants. Where is the disproportionate incidents in the barrios? Why aren't people dropping like flies in the barrios; do you really think they're getting advanced care there?
You may fool some of those here predisposed to easy answers, but your myopic focus on what is the least likely of an epidemic spread clearly reveals the ease you have in moving so quickly to the bigot's answers.
http://washingtonindependent.com/414...ation-strategy
When this blows over, once again, you tools are going to be seen by the increasing majority as the clowns that you are.Swine Flu Rhetoric Part of Broader Anti-Immigration Strategy
Restrictionists Point to Crisis of Moment to Buck Comprehensive Immigration Reform
Last edited by playwrite; 05-03-2009 at 05:02 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
I would normally thing of you being on my side on this; that's why my "what the hell" confusion.
You may be tired of too-often causal links to bigotry (with or without Obama) but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that it goes away if you don't mention it.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
-Playwrite missed the point that the authorities are keeping the details "confidential". If it turns out they were Illegals or visiting Illegals, what cop-out will PW use then?
-Again, I know this is a complicated point for PW, but you don't stop American itizens from RETURNING to the USA, because they BELONG in the USA. Quarantine, yes, but you can't send them bak. Duh.
Again, PW might also be unfamiliar with the concept of duration of contact. Whatever.
-Ah, yes, enforcing the US Border = Bigotry. One wonders at Playwrite's motive.
BTW, PW forgot to reference FOX News, although he did provide yet another piture, blocked by Websense. My loss, I'm sure.
No, you are missing the point.-Playwrite missed the point that the authorities are keeping the details "confidential". If it turns out they were Illegals or visiting Illegals, what cop-out will PW use then?
-Again, I know this is a complicated point for PW, but you don't stop American itizens from RETURNING to the USA, because they BELONG in the USA. Quarantine, yes, but you can't send them bak. Duh.
Again, PW might also be unfamiliar with the concept of duration of contact. Whatever.
-Ah, yes, enforcing the US Border = Bigotry. One wonders at Playwrite's motive.
BTW, PW forgot to reference FOX News, although he did provide yet another piture, blocked by Websense. My loss, I'm sure.
Your second post on this thread (the first regarding the epidemiological aspects) was this -
You went there really fast. And, when pointed out to you that routes other than illegal immigration (e.g. returning US citizens) had been linked to most incidences, you had the chance to re-frame within that larger context. You choose to do otherwise.Hmmm... the first death in America was... a Mexican. Of course, I'm not sure of skin shade...
Maybe now we should tighten up the border, if not for the trivial reason that that's one of the primary legitimate functions of the US government as a matter of "general purpose"?
As far as I know, this one was legal, LOOKING FOR MEDICAL CARE. How many Illegals are infected? But I guess that doesn't matter, since illegals never think to look for free medical care at the expense of the US taxpayer. I guess we'll find out...
Many might give you the benefit of the doubt on that initial post, but you staying there with these additional comments -
-Of course.
Letting people into the USA who harbor a potentially fatal disease, and allowing them to spread it in this country, is a much better solution!- makes clear you're really not concerned about public health, just pushing the bigoted Right's agenda.The Mexican who died of the 'flu in Texas, OTOH, did not. Letting in said individual only allowed the disease to spread in this country.
DUH.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
This is such a tired conversation. I think we had this debate in freshman sociology class back in the 80s or something. But I love that he went through Brownsville.
Traveling through from Brownsville brings layers of condemnation.
First, entry through Brownsville (and hence being Mexican) brings condemnation, and
Second, Being brown (although not necessarily since lots of Mexicans are in fact pretty pale - just not the ones doing the awn at my "whitebread" (according to pw) suburb) brings condemnation (assuming pw is right about the condemnation of forum members directed towards browns - although again perhaps paler than our own Rani - which isn't a problem because that's an Indian-American thing [but not an American Indian thing - we don't like those guys either, but we prefer not to think about that][but in all honesty the brown of the traveler through Brownsville isn't that different from the brown of American Indians {remember though - not Indian Americans} since the hues come from relative similar gene pools compared to my own celtic/germanic mix, but somehow the browns going through Brownsville may be a little higher on the totem pole than the browns from Rosebud][but wait, this is only tangentially about American Indians who may be geographically closer to the Brownian family and Indian Americans who share the hue but not the social class of the Brownsvillian])
(Unless that Mexican family has money, and this is why they can afford to travel all over, including through Brownsville. But then, given my understanding of Mexican social class, if they are well off, the child may be not very brown at all. In which case we just hate them from going through Brownsville rather than being brown)
Just like Avenue Q, "We're all a little bit racist."
EWWWWWWWLLLLLL!!!!!! How DISGUSTING!!!!!I would normally thing of you being on my side on this; that's why my "what the hell" confusion.
You may be tired of too-often causal links to bigotry (with or without Obama) but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that it goes away if you don't mention it.
Pardon me, while I barf my Filet Mignon...
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
See and if we wanted to do a critical analysis of the messages coded in pw's picture there, we could argue that it is not an accident that his picture is of a very pale person, apparently in wintertime. It shows that pw and the rest of the left believes regular whitefolk are the ones who truly do have their heads up their asses. Now if jdg put that picture through, I would have to say that the implication is that the white left are the ones with their heads so stuffed. In which case both betray their subtle self-hate. Anyone who was truly proud of themselves would not put a picture of their color-men (as opposed to countrymen - call it race patriotism) in such a compromising position to make their point. Especially considering that a hundred other hues of human could be pictured.
Or it could just be the first picture that came up on google image. One never does know.
A prime example of why I dislike far-righters so very much.
You know as good as I that if we were talking about illegal adult immigrant adults playing Typhoid Mary in San Antonio, I'd be the first to call for their deportation (or the mailing home of their corpses) at our earliest possible convenience. Anyone who dares puts me in the bleeding heart open-border camp is in need of some serious radical brain surgery.
If we were talking about the parents being here illegally, you bet they should be quarantined, then sent home. If they knew they were sick with swine flu, perhaps they should even be charged with reckless public endangerment, jailed, and then sent home.
But I wasn't... and you damn well know it. I do, however, have a problem with someone sneering at the death of a sick baby who died, and died HERE, through no fault of his own.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
Yes indeed. In keeping with the spirit of this thread, that dude really ought to get more sun.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP
There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
This swine flu thing is a lot like SARS scare a while back. Although we are due for a major influenza pandemic. The last one was in 1918 and killed between 50-100 million people, today such an pandemic would kill between 200 and 400 million people :o.
I am a tad bit concerned this will turn into a major panic, these are an unfortunate side effect of the Fourth Turning collective mindset.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".
David Bowie on Los Angeles
Over Reacting?
I tend to agree. The high percentage of deaths in the early outbreak were likely caused by a poor health care system in Mexico and ignorance that something new was out there. People seem to be trying to keep the bug from spreading to the general population. I'm not sure it can be done. Trying to do it is going to cost a lot of sick days and closed schools and businesses.
It doesn't take a mind-reader to see that someone who immediately posts that its due to illegal immigration and then sticks to that argument regardless of facts has an agenda other than public health.
I guess you didn't bother to click on those links I provided or even google "swine flu" "right wing." I am proud of my contempt for the wing nuts.
And what exactly do you see is "right" (as in correct) of Slick or the other wing nuts trying to pin this on illegal immigration?
I find the following very confusing -
- you seem to be saying his message is wrong, but I should pay attention to the message. The explicit message I hear from him is false conjecture that the spread is due to illegal immigration; the implicit message is that he is a bigot. I listened to both messages and don't like either, in large part because this is worst than a distraction it is propaganda to push a political agenda of hate - which will likely do far more damage to attempts to deal with the real public health issue currently at hand.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
