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Thread: Swine Flu - Page 6







Post#126 at 05-04-2009 10:58 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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- from "Daily What"

http://thedw.us/
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#127 at 05-04-2009 11:03 AM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Hope not.

I had a delicious quesadilla for dinner this evening, made in part from the smoked pulled carcass of one of Rani's Porcine-American friends
I had my promised pork roast Saturday night and it was delicious.







Post#128 at 05-04-2009 01:21 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
This was from his first post on the subject:


(emphasis added)

Maybe you're not a mind reader ... just someone with foggy glasses?
Ah, let's look at the whole post -
1) Hmmm... the first death in America was... a Mexican. Of course, I'm not sure of skin shade...

Maybe now we should tighten up the border, if not for the trivial reason that that's one of the primary legitimate functions of the US government as a matter of "general purpose"?

As far as I know, this one was legal, LOOKING FOR MEDICAL CARE. How many Illegals are infected? But I guess that doesn't matter, since illegals never think to look for free medical care at the expense of the US taxpayer. I guess we'll find out...

2) I can tell when Playwrite feels that he's been backed into a corner: PW starts sputtering about FOX News.
My interpretation is 'yea, that one was legal but what about all those others.' Pure scaremongering without any bases in fact (i.e. most US cases tied to people coming back from Mexican vacations).

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Why would I? I'm already quite familiar with the ways that people twist the truth to suit their own agenda. I'm a professional, remember? Unless you've got proof that Glick wrote some of that stuff himself.
It wasn't about whether Glick is a Faux News writer (he's just one of the many parrots they rely upon), it was about this -

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
It was a rhetorical question. Sooner or later the "right" will come up with something that's actually correct, and the question is whether or not people on the left are going to be too busy having temper tantrums at them to notice it. Or vice versa.
- a pretty clear indictment that I am not willing to listen to any viewpoints from the Right regardless of how sober, legitimate and intelligent.. Those links show that doesn't exist in those voices from the Right that immediately go to, and stay mucked in (see Slick's follow-up posts), attempts to use a public health crisis to facilitate their hate agenda.

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Proud of contempt? That's a strange thing to take pride in ... and saying so makes you look like a bit of a wingnut yourself.
Yea, much much more comfortable with that than being a kneejerk apologist for this kind of trash.

I think its just dandy when someone attempts to put on the pragmatic, bipartisan, can't-we-all-just-get-along-to-get-the-job-done hat. However, that assumes one is dealing with a scale of 1- 10 and maybe trying to get a person at a 2 or a 3 to meet a person at an 8 or 7 in the middle at a 5. The problem you have is Slick is off the scale, as a very big negative number. I don't compromise with trash, I set it out on the street for pickup - kind of like what the country is doing with the current brand of conservatives.
Last edited by playwrite; 05-04-2009 at 01:24 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#129 at 05-04-2009 02:24 PM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Thumbs down

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
If this turns out to be a severe pandemic, are you two just going to keep questioning each other's agenda, or start listening and trying to figure out what's really going on?

The kid was NOT an illegal immigrant.

Yes, he might have spread the disease to Americans.

No, keeping Mexicans in Mexico won't stop the spread of these kinds of viruses. You'd have to stop people, pigs, and birds, from traveling all over the world to do that. "When pigs fly ... swine flu" is pretty darned accurate (never got back to Ghost Echo on that one.) There are two strains of European pig viruses in the current swine/bird/human virus. Long-distance transportation of livestock, not people, is a large part of the problem.
On that subject - David Schmidly, President of the University of New Mexico, has canceled all University-related trips into Mexico for whatever reason -

And has asked any University people currently in Mexico to please return to the United States.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#130 at 05-04-2009 04:27 PM by Skabungus [at West Michigan joined Jun 2007 #posts 1,027]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Grey Badger View Post
And has asked any University people currently in Mexico to please return to the United States.
Did he specify what strain of H1N1 they should bring back with them?

Possibly, if the flu bug is his rationale, he should be asking the University people currently in Mexico.......to stay there until the scare/pandemic/phreakout is over.







Post#131 at 05-04-2009 04:41 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by Skabungus View Post
Did he specify what strain of H1N1 they should bring back with them?

Possibly, if the flu bug is his rationale, he should be asking the University people currently in Mexico.......to stay there until the scare/pandemic/phreakout is over.
Sugar! That's what I was going to say. :-p

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#132 at 05-04-2009 05:28 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I don't have a lot of interest in "meeting anyone in the middle." That's the best way to make absolutely sure that nothing ever gets done about anythihg.

But let's take another look at this one:



"Tighten up the border," the way I see it, isn't limited to stopping illegal immigration. It could also mean limiting legal immigration, quarantines for people upon return to the U.S., limiting pig/pork imports, all kinds of things. All of which are valid things to consider, even if they end up being impractical for whatever other reasons.
I'm for tightening-up the borders within the context of a comprehensive approach. I'm even willing to understand and somehow address the Populous Right's (note - the Corportist Right would flood the labor markets if they could) apprehension of accepting other elements (e.g., amnesty) given what has happened in the past. However, any one insisting on "close the border first" isn't being realistic nor concerned about a real solution nor worth any of my time.

I believe before this swine flu problem took hold, Obama was going to come out with a proposed comprehensive approach toward the end of this month. That, unfortunately, doesn't look politically viable now and in no small way the delay is due to the right wingnuts scaremongering the flu for all its worth. Thus my disgust at idiots like Slick that parrot the hateful agenda - apparently in ways that seem to fool even some otherwise street-smart people.


Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
For you to assume that it was a racist comment was way out of line.
I don't think so.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#133 at 05-04-2009 08:20 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
First of all, he's not an idiot, and second of all there was nothing hateful in his comments. As for who are the fools and the parrots, that usually depends on who you ask.
I have always found it fascinating who you bother to stick up for.

C'est la vie
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#134 at 05-04-2009 10:07 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by Child of Socrates View Post
I had my promised pork roast Saturday night and it was delicious.
What else are friends for???
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#135 at 05-04-2009 10:41 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I've always thought it best to keep personal conflicts separate from political ones. On this forum, yeah, that does stick out like a sore thumb.
You really think you do that?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#136 at 05-05-2009 11:55 AM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
I have always found it fascinating who you bother to stick up for.

C'est la vie
I actually was going to second what Rani said, even though James D Glick and I are on opposite sides of the aisle.

Calling him hateful, a moron, and "Slick" cheapens the tone of the discussion.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#137 at 05-05-2009 03:02 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
And I don't think that anyone would argue in FAVOR of spreading deadly diseases...
-There's an element of the Illegal Immigrant lobby at La Raza that is willing to take what most of us would see as unnecessary risks in order to prevent Mexican Illegals from being inconvenienced in any way (I doubt that they're sincerely worried about Chinese, Russians, Nigerians, or the Irish).

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
It doesn't take a mind-reader to see that someone who immediately posts that its due to illegal immigration and then sticks to that argument regardless of facts has an agenda other than public health...
-Uh, actually, it was Playwrite who originally brought up the immigration issue in relation to the H1N1, over in the ponzi thread:

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
... The real question is why you are not over at Faux News helping them stir up fear about brown people slipping over the border to infect our women and children?
...I responded in this thread, since it seemed more appropriate.

And PW is still whining about FOX News!

BTW, for the edification of the masses, I haven't seen FOX News in weeks; I don't have a TV, which, among other things, gives me more time to post!

Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
You know as good as I that if we were talking about illegal adult immigrant adults playing Typhoid Mary in San Antonio, I'd be the first to call for their deportation (or the mailing home of their corpses) at our earliest possible convenience. Anyone who dares puts me in the bleeding heart open-border camp is in need of some serious radical brain surgery.

If we were talking about the parents being here illegally, you bet they should be quarantined, then sent home. If they knew they were sick with swine flu, perhaps they should even be charged with reckless public endangerment, jailed, and then sent home...
-Great; then stop whining about imagined "sneering" when there was none.

Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
I do, however, have a problem with someone sneering at the death of a sick baby who died, and died HERE, through no fault of his own...
-No, that fault belongs to the parents, and the authorities. As I've already posted, the death of the boy is sad, because his was an innocent life, as opposed to (say) Somali pirates who held an American hostage.

Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
But I wasn't... and you damn well know it...
-Wow.

I "damn well know" what you're thinking? Now that you mention it, if I think back on some of your previous posts, I can see where you'd take offense. I detected a little bit of "bleeding heart" from you in this case, based on the fact that you jumped on the Playwrite Band-Wagon, and that your priorities seemed confused . But, I'll accept what you've posted above.

It's also possible that you flatter yourself in thinking that I can see that deeply into your mind, or that my memory is photographic. I do have a gift & skill for reading people, but it takes some time, which you'll be disappointed to know I haven't dedicated on you.

Shall I begin your Dossier?

BTW, I'm a "Far-Righter"? Based on what? Or, perhaps more to the point, what beliefs do you define as "far right"?

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
First of all, he's [JDG] not an idiot, and second of all there was nothing hateful in his comments. As for who are the fools and the parrots, that usually depends on who you ask.
...and...

Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
...Calling him hateful, a moron, and "Slick" cheapens the tone of the discussion.
-Sticks & stones, and water off a duck's back. As I've already pointed out:

Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
...I don't buy that PW actually believes any of his abusive comments; it's probably just his way of dealing with those that he's afraid of...
Whatever.

Anyway, back on dead Mexican children, and H1N1, I'd like to take a page from M&L*:

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
...On the other hand, we should consider sending a bill to the Maersk's insurance provider. The US Navy should not be a Commercial Service(TM), even though it is often used as one.
...and...

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
While I don't disagree about the need to oppose piracy or any similar act of aggression, make sure you assign the costs to Corporate Welfare(TM)...
...have the parents of the Mexican toddler been presented with the bill for the medical care (including, apparently, transportation costs by helicopter) which he recieved? We wouldn't want "THE RICH" to stick it to "THE LITTLE GUY", would we?

*Of course, in Captain Phelps' case, that would have been inappropriate, since the "Maersk Alabama" (as a US-flagged vessel) already paid for the US Navy's services.

---

Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly, and even the occasional Silent) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not.








Post#138 at 05-05-2009 03:09 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Thumbs down The Flu flies -> more to come

Here is a bit of conjecture we can all chew on. Several previous flu epidemics have originated as relatively benign strains only to emerge in flu season as more virulent strains.

Now may be time to get the flu and get it out of the way.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#139 at 05-05-2009 03:37 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Definitely. I get along fine with you, don't I?

To clarify, I don't mean that I don't have personal conflicts with people. I mean that I know how to put those conflicts aside when working towards a common political goal. In this example, the goal happens to be preventing the spread of deadly diseases. And I don't think that anyone would argue in FAVOR of spreading deadly diseases, so we should really all be on the same side on this one.

Part of what I'm talking about involves paying attention to a person when he/she is saying something of value, whether or not I happen to like him/her personally or agree with him her on other issues. It also means that I don't let others use a political issue to drag me into a personal conflict. Some people might call that "trolling," but it really takes two to troll, the troller and the trollee.

If you want examples, you can see quite a few on this very thread. You just have to look closely, and know what to watch for, which I think you do.
As you mentioned, when you say "tighten up the border" that is inclusive of illegal immigrants as well as legal immigrants, visitors from the North as well as the South, livestock, products ect. When Slick refers to "tighten up the border," it is exclusively about illegal immigrants. That is not mind reading; show me a post where he did otherwise.

Maybe there are those (Obama?)who are extraordinarily good at co-opting those with myopic and extreme viewpoints into supporting a greater-good strategy when those viewpoints just happen to intersect at a single point of commonality. On the other hand, at a minimum, you run the risk of obliterating any chance for a solution - case in point, focusing upon and attempting to appease those who want to blame ‘illegals’ when the data shows they were not the primary vectors may be the easy and false answer that takes attention away from what is truly needed (screening and quarantine of recent US citizens visitors to Mexico in the short run, and bringing closer public scrutiny to livestock practices in the long run) or make the problem worst (scaring away ‘illegals’ from proper medical care).

More troubling, in trying to appease such folks for your own agenda, you also run the risk of losing your soul.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#140 at 05-05-2009 03:42 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
I actually was going to second what Rani said, even though James D Glick and I are on opposite sides of the aisle.

Calling him hateful, a moron, and "Slick" cheapens the tone of the discussion.
Perhaps within the context of this thread alone, you may have a point. However, on a number of other threads, I have been dealing with this hateful moron for some time, as well as have many others.

Perhaps I shouldn't stoop to his level. I'll take your suggestion under advisement. Thanks!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#141 at 05-05-2009 04:40 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
... Though it's no guarantee if the virus mutates, especially if it recombines with other bird flus, and natural immunity does fade after a while. Still better than not having been exposed to it at all.
-IIRC, those who got "Wave 1" of the 1918 Flu' during WWI, were immune (pretty much) to "Wave 2".

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I have no idea what you mean by "unnecessary risks."
-The La Raza gang would eliminate any enforcement of the border, and would eliminate any inspections or restrictions. I don't don't see that endiung well.

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
... having done quite a few rotations at Texas Childrens Hospital as a med student, I can take a pretty good guess. They were probably a V.I.P. family, who had a relationship with TCH because of their son's "underlying medical illness" (whatever that happened to be) and yeah, either paid their own way or made large contributions to the hospital...
-Fair Enough. I'll leave Odin, Marx & Lennon, and company to rail against THE RICH.

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
As you mentioned, when you say "tighten up the border" that is inclusive of illegal immigrants as well as legal immigrants, visitors from the North as well as the South, livestock, products ect. When Slick refers to "tighten up the border," it is exclusively about illegal immigrants. That is not mind reading; show me a post where he did otherwise...
1) In the case of H1N1, the problem isn't with "products" or "livestock"; it's with people. Besides, with NAFTA, you can only go so far in resticting goods from Mexico or Canada before the "victimized" country will claim it amounts to protectionism. Personally, I have no problem with quarantine or inspection; if the US government could do it properly at Ellis Island over 100 years ago, you'd figure that it would be easier today...

2) By definition, an Illegal is disproportionately likely to come in with any number of problems (including disease); that's why they came in illegally in the first place; refernce back to Ellis Island days. Duh.

BTW, no recognition from PW that this was his topic to begin with:

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
... The real question is why you are not over at Faux News helping them stir up fear about brown people slipping over the border to infect our women and children?
BTW, why would PW have any problem with making sure that people don't slip into the USA illegally for any reason, eh?

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...Perhaps I shouldn't stoop to his level.
-Uh huh. I'm not the one who communicates with obscenities, or who fantasizes about his opponents being turned into some sort of homosexual sex slave. I do like to point out many of our posters hypocrisies and inconsistency of thought, but I try to keep it clean and non-violent.

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...I'll take your suggestion under advisement. Thanks!
-Yeah. I bet that lasts for 24 hours.

---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly, and even the occasional Silent) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not.







Post#142 at 05-05-2009 05:10 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Perhaps within the context of this thread alone, you may have a point. However, on a number of other threads, I have been dealing with this hateful moron for some time, as well as have many others.

Perhaps I shouldn't stoop to his level. I'll take your suggestion under advisement. Thanks!
No, you shouldn't. Just my two cents.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#143 at 05-05-2009 05:30 PM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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If we're going to close the border against swine flu, we need to quarantine our own people returning from Mexico until we're sure they don't have it, as wel las Mexicans coming here, as a public health measure. That our people "belong here" by nationality means nothing to a virus. I was shocked yesterday when the President of UNM asked all UNM people currently in Mexico to please come home. With the flu? I don't THINK so!
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#144 at 05-05-2009 08:15 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
...I also don't think that you're correct that "illegals" have more diseases than most. Unless you have data somewhere to back that up?
1) How would we get stat's? If they do, we wouldn't know;

2) Illlegals tend not to be the pick of the litter (if they were, they wouldn't have to sneak in).


Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
...animals undergoing long distance transport are more stressed, and more likely to get these illnesses than others...
-That sounds reasonable.

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
...It's like you think that returning U.S. citizens and legal immigrants are somehow sanitized...
-Huh? Ellis Island was for legal immigrants. Do you think Illegals lined up at Ellis Island to be inspected? That would have made them Legals.

I mean, diagnoses c. 1889 weren't what they are today; they're faster and more accurate. Plus, post-Pasteur, Lister, and Goethals, we have a better idea of how disease is spread (i.e., not "Swamp Gas").







Post#145 at 05-08-2009 10:41 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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05-08-2009, 10:41 AM #145
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_he_me/med_swine_flu_bird_fluis

This the scenario that has some scientists worried: The two viruses meet — possibly in Asia, where bird flu is endemic — and combine into a new bug that is both highly contagious and lethal and can spread around the world.

Scientists are unsure how likely this possibility is, but note that the new swine flu strain — a never-before-seen mixture of pig, human and bird viruses — has shown itself to be especially adept at snatching evolutionarily advantageous genetic material from other flu viruses.
"But there is in fact discussion of putting them together — in a high-security laboratory — to see what a combination would look like, according to Webster. "

Geez... maybe I oughta just move to Boulder right now already!
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#146 at 05-08-2009 10:59 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
"But there is in fact discussion of putting them together — in a high-security laboratory — to see what a combination would look like, according to Webster. "

Geez... maybe I oughta just move to Boulder right now already!
Heh. Better there than to Vegas. We all remember how that turned out...
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc ętre dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant ŕ moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce ętre dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#147 at 05-08-2009 12:35 PM by antichrist [at I'm in the Big City now, boy! joined Sep 2003 #posts 1,655]
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05-08-2009, 12:35 PM #147
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I'll stay with grandma in nebraska







Post#148 at 05-08-2009 01:02 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
"But there is in fact discussion of putting them together — in a high-security laboratory — to see what a combination would look like, according to Webster. "

Geez... maybe I oughta just move to Boulder right now already!
I'll be sure to look for a duo on a motorcycle with a Maine license plate driving through so I can join them.

Too bad we won't be able to stop in Georgia and keep that little boy from falling into that ditch and dieing though... nor keep that woman from shooting herself in hysteria.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#149 at 05-15-2009 03:54 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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05-15-2009, 03:54 AM #149
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Swine Flu May Be Human Error

Adrian Gibbs, 75, who collaborated on research that led to the development of Roche Holding AG’s Tamiflu drug, said in an interview that he intends to publish a report suggesting the new strain may have accidentally evolved in eggs scientists use to grow viruses and drugmakers use to make vaccines. Gibbs said he came to his conclusion as part of an effort to trace the virus’s origins by analyzing its genetic blueprint. “One of the simplest explanations is that it’s a laboratory escape,” Gibbs said in an interview with Bloomberg Television today.
Of course, those paragons of integrity and openness, the WHO ("there is no evidence of infection in pigs, nor of humans acquiring infection directly from pigs.") and the CDC ("US rooting around for a new name for swine flu") came right out to say that the theory is absolutely, no way nohow just not even the slightest, remotest bit possible. So we know they're right.

"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc ętre dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant ŕ moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce ętre dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#150 at 05-15-2009 01:34 PM by Bob Butler 54 [at Cove Hold, Carver, MA joined Jul 2001 #posts 6,431]
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Left Arrow Bugs

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I wonder if mutations can happen faster on factory farms? If we ever get answers to these questions, it will have to come from a scientist like this guy, not the public agencies. The government slogan after 911 was "Go Shopping," and now it's "Eat Pork." Soon to be followed by "Get Vaccinated." Identifying pig farmers and/or medical researchers as the source of the problem is not something that they're going to do, whether it's accurate or not.
I wouldn't defame all the scientists, or even all of them working for the government. Yes, there are politicians and public relations people who are furthering the interests of big business, or telling The People stuff that will make them behave like nice complacent sheep. Your opinion of the government scientists making calming pronouncements about factory pig farming is quite similar to my opinion of Bush 43's global warming "scientists." Politicians do spin science, and they should do less or it.

But just finding someone to blame or disparaging large blocks of people is not overly constructive. Whether it's Republicans and Democrats disparaging each other, or boomers and Xers, or scientific laymen dumping on professionals, not a lot comes out of closing one's mind to ideas. Yes, one should follow the money trail, and be aware of conflicts of interests, but one can't just throw away all options that don't agree with what one wants to hear.

Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is on to something. Fish farms where they load the feed with antibiotics have resulted in crashes in the population of the wild fish. If one believes in evolution, it isn't hard to figure out that crowding encourages disease, and bugs will evolve to survive antibiotics. I have no clue whether this particular bug might be a lab escape or something bred in the factories, but either seems plausible.
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