- from "Daily What"

http://thedw.us/

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Hope not.

I had a delicious quesadilla for dinner this evening, made in part from the smoked pulled carcass of one of Rani's Porcine-American friends

I had my promised pork roast Saturday night and it was delicious.

Originally Posted by The Rani

This was from his first post on the subject:


(emphasis added)

Maybe you're not a mind reader ... just someone with foggy glasses?

Ah, let's look at the whole post -

1) Hmmm... the first death in America was... a Mexican. Of course, I'm not sure of skin shade...

Maybe now we should tighten up the border, if not for the trivial reason that that's one of the primary legitimate functions of the US government as a matter of "general purpose"?

As far as I know, this one was legal, LOOKING FOR MEDICAL CARE. How many Illegals are infected? But I guess that doesn't matter, since illegals never think to look for free medical care at the expense of the US taxpayer. I guess we'll find out...

2) I can tell when Playwrite feels that he's been backed into a corner: PW starts sputtering about FOX News.

My interpretation is 'yea, that one was legal but what about all those others.' Pure scaremongering without any bases in fact (i.e. most US cases tied to people coming back from Mexican vacations).

Originally Posted by The Rani

Why would I? I'm already quite familiar with the ways that people twist the truth to suit their own agenda. I'm a professional, remember? Unless you've got proof that Glick wrote some of that stuff himself.

It wasn't about whether Glick is a Faux News writer (he's just one of the many parrots they rely upon), it was about this -

Originally Posted by The Rani

It was a rhetorical question. Sooner or later the "right" will come up with something that's actually correct, and the question is whether or not people on the left are going to be too busy having temper tantrums at them to notice it. Or vice versa.

- a pretty clear indictment that I am not willing to listen to any viewpoints from the Right regardless of how sober, legitimate and intelligent.. Those links show that doesn't exist in those voices from the Right that immediately go to, and stay mucked in (see Slick's follow-up posts), attempts to use a public health crisis to facilitate their hate agenda.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Proud of contempt? That's a strange thing to take pride in ... and saying so makes you look like a bit of a wingnut yourself.

Yea, much much more comfortable with that than being a kneejerk apologist for this kind of trash.

I think its just dandy when someone attempts to put on the pragmatic, bipartisan, can't-we-all-just-get-along-to-get-the-job-done hat. However, that assumes one is dealing with a scale of 1- 10 and maybe trying to get a person at a 2 or a 3 to meet a person at an 8 or 7 in the middle at a 5. The problem you have is Slick is off the scale, as a very big negative number. I don't compromise with trash, I set it out on the street for pickup - kind of like what the country is doing with the current brand of conservatives.

Originally Posted by The Rani

If this turns out to be a severe pandemic, are you two just going to keep questioning each other's agenda, or start listening and trying to figure out what's really going on?

The kid was NOT an illegal immigrant.

Yes, he might have spread the disease to Americans.

No, keeping Mexicans in Mexico won't stop the spread of these kinds of viruses. You'd have to stop people, pigs, and birds, from traveling all over the world to do that. "When pigs fly ... swine flu" is pretty darned accurate (never got back to Ghost Echo on that one.) There are two strains of European pig viruses in the current swine/bird/human virus. Long-distance transportation of livestock, not people, is a large part of the problem.

On that subject - David Schmidly, President of the University of New Mexico, has canceled all University-related trips into Mexico for whatever reason -

And has asked any University people currently in Mexico to please return to the United States.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

And has asked any University people currently in Mexico to please return to the United States.

Did he specify what strain of H1N1 they should bring back with them?

Possibly, if the flu bug is his rationale, he should be asking the University people currently in Mexico.......to stay there until the scare/pandemic/phreakout is over.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

Did he specify what strain of H1N1 they should bring back with them?

Possibly, if the flu bug is his rationale, he should be asking the University people currently in Mexico.......to stay there until the scare/pandemic/phreakout is over.

Sugar! That's what I was going to say. :-p

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by The Rani

I don't have a lot of interest in "meeting anyone in the middle." That's the best way to make absolutely sure that nothing ever gets done about anythihg.

But let's take another look at this one:



"Tighten up the border," the way I see it, isn't limited to stopping illegal immigration. It could also mean limiting legal immigration, quarantines for people upon return to the U.S., limiting pig/pork imports, all kinds of things. All of which are valid things to consider, even if they end up being impractical for whatever other reasons.

I'm for tightening-up the borders within the context of a comprehensive approach. I'm even willing to understand and somehow address the Populous Right's (note - the Corportist Right would flood the labor markets if they could) apprehension of accepting other elements (e.g., amnesty) given what has happened in the past. However, any one insisting on "close the border first" isn't being realistic nor concerned about a real solution nor worth any of my time.

I believe before this swine flu problem took hold, Obama was going to come out with a proposed comprehensive approach toward the end of this month. That, unfortunately, doesn't look politically viable now and in no small way the delay is due to the right wingnuts scaremongering the flu for all its worth. Thus my disgust at idiots like Slick that parrot the hateful agenda - apparently in ways that seem to fool even some otherwise street-smart people.

Originally Posted by The Rani

For you to assume that it was a racist comment was way out of line.

I don't think so.

Originally Posted by The Rani

First of all, he's not an idiot, and second of all there was nothing hateful in his comments. As for who are the fools and the parrots, that usually depends on who you ask.

I have always found it fascinating who you bother to stick up for.

C'est la vie

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

I had my promised pork roast Saturday night and it was delicious.

What else are friends for???

Originally Posted by The Rani

I've always thought it best to keep personal conflicts separate from political ones. On this forum, yeah, that does stick out like a sore thumb.

You really think you do that?

Originally Posted by playwrite

I have always found it fascinating who you bother to stick up for.

C'est la vie

I actually was going to second what Rani said, even though James D Glick and I are on opposite sides of the aisle.

Calling him hateful, a moron, and "Slick" cheapens the tone of the discussion.

Originally Posted by The Rani

And I don't think that anyone would argue in FAVOR of spreading deadly diseases...

-There's an element of the Illegal Immigrant lobby at La Raza that is willing to take what most of us would see as unnecessary risks in order to prevent Mexican Illegals from being inconvenienced in any way (I doubt that they're sincerely worried about Chinese, Russians, Nigerians, or the Irish).

Originally Posted by playwrite

It doesn't take a mind-reader to see that someone who immediately posts that its due to illegal immigration and then sticks to that argument regardless of facts has an agenda other than public health...

-Uh, actually, it was Playwrite who originally brought up the immigration issue in relation to the H1N1, over in the ponzi thread:

Originally Posted by playwrite

... The real question is why you are not over at Faux News helping them stir up fear about brown people slipping over the border to infect our women and children?

...I responded in this thread, since it seemed more appropriate.

And PW is still whining about FOX News!

BTW, for the edification of the masses, I haven't seen FOX News in weeks; I don't have a TV, which, among other things, gives me more time to post!

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

You know as good as I that if we were talking about illegal adult immigrant adults playing Typhoid Mary in San Antonio, I'd be the first to call for their deportation (or the mailing home of their corpses) at our earliest possible convenience. Anyone who dares puts me in the bleeding heart open-border camp is in need of some serious radical brain surgery.

If we were talking about the parents being here illegally, you bet they should be quarantined, then sent home. If they knew they were sick with swine flu, perhaps they should even be charged with reckless public endangerment, jailed, and then sent home...

-Great; then stop whining about imagined "sneering" when there was none.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

I do, however, have a problem with someone sneering at the death of a sick baby who died, and died HERE, through no fault of his own...

-No, that fault belongs to the parents, and the authorities. As I've already posted, the death of the boy is sad, because his was an innocent life, as opposed to (say) Somali pirates who held an American hostage.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

But I wasn't... and you damn well know it...

-Wow.

I "damn well know" what you're thinking? Now that you mention it, if I think back on some of your previous posts, I can see where you'd take offense. I detected a little bit of "bleeding heart" from you in this case, based on the fact that you jumped on the Playwrite Band-Wagon, and that your priorities seemed confused . But, I'll accept what you've posted above.

It's also possible that you flatter yourself in thinking that I can see that deeply into your mind, or that my memory is photographic. I do have a gift & skill for reading people, but it takes some time, which you'll be disappointed to know I haven't dedicated on you.

Shall I begin your Dossier?

BTW, I'm a "Far-Righter"? Based on what? Or, perhaps more to the point, what beliefs do you define as "far right"?

Originally Posted by The Rani

First of all, he's [JDG] not an idiot, and second of all there was nothing hateful in his comments. As for who are the fools and the parrots, that usually depends on who you ask.

...and...

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

...Calling him hateful, a moron, and "Slick" cheapens the tone of the discussion.

-Sticks & stones, and water off a duck's back. As I've already pointed out:

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

...I don't buy that PW actually believes any of his abusive comments; it's probably just his way of dealing with those that he's afraid of...

Whatever.

Anyway, back on dead Mexican children, and H1N1, I'd like to take a page from M&L*:

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

...On the other hand, we should consider sending a bill to the Maersk's insurance provider. The US Navy should not be a Commercial Service(TM), even though it is often used as one.

...and...

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

While I don't disagree about the need to oppose piracy or any similar act of aggression, make sure you assign the costs to Corporate Welfare(TM)...

...have the parents of the Mexican toddler been presented with the bill for the medical care (including, apparently, transportation costs by helicopter) which he recieved? We wouldn't want "THE RICH" to stick it to "THE LITTLE GUY", would we?

*Of course, in Captain Phelps' case, that would have been inappropriate, since the "Maersk Alabama" (as a US-flagged vessel) already paid for the US Navy's services.

---

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly, and even the occasional Silent) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not.

Here is a bit of conjecture we can all chew on. Several previous flu epidemics have originated as relatively benign strains only to emerge in flu season as more virulent strains.

Now may be time to get the flu and get it out of the way.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Definitely. I get along fine with you, don't I?

To clarify, I don't mean that I don't have personal conflicts with people. I mean that I know how to put those conflicts aside when working towards a common political goal. In this example, the goal happens to be preventing the spread of deadly diseases. And I don't think that anyone would argue in FAVOR of spreading deadly diseases, so we should really all be on the same side on this one.

Part of what I'm talking about involves paying attention to a person when he/she is saying something of value, whether or not I happen to like him/her personally or agree with him her on other issues. It also means that I don't let others use a political issue to drag me into a personal conflict. Some people might call that "trolling," but it really takes two to troll, the troller and the trollee.

If you want examples, you can see quite a few on this very thread. You just have to look closely, and know what to watch for, which I think you do.

As you mentioned, when you say "tighten up the border" that is inclusive of illegal immigrants as well as legal immigrants, visitors from the North as well as the South, livestock, products ect. When Slick refers to "tighten up the border," it is exclusively about illegal immigrants. That is not mind reading; show me a post where he did otherwise.

Maybe there are those (Obama?)who are extraordinarily good at co-opting those with myopic and extreme viewpoints into supporting a greater-good strategy when those viewpoints just happen to intersect at a single point of commonality. On the other hand, at a minimum, you run the risk of obliterating any chance for a solution - case in point, focusing upon and attempting to appease those who want to blame ‘illegals’ when the data shows they were not the primary vectors may be the easy and false answer that takes attention away from what is truly needed (screening and quarantine of recent US citizens visitors to Mexico in the short run, and bringing closer public scrutiny to livestock practices in the long run) or make the problem worst (scaring away ‘illegals’ from proper medical care).

More troubling, in trying to appease such folks for your own agenda, you also run the risk of losing your soul.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I actually was going to second what Rani said, even though James D Glick and I are on opposite sides of the aisle.

Calling him hateful, a moron, and "Slick" cheapens the tone of the discussion.

Perhaps within the context of this thread alone, you may have a point. However, on a number of other threads, I have been dealing with this hateful moron for some time, as well as have many others.

Perhaps I shouldn't stoop to his level. I'll take your suggestion under advisement. Thanks!

Originally Posted by The Rani

... Though it's no guarantee if the virus mutates, especially if it recombines with other bird flus, and natural immunity does fade after a while. Still better than not having been exposed to it at all.

-IIRC, those who got "Wave 1" of the 1918 Flu' during WWI, were immune (pretty much) to "Wave 2".

Originally Posted by The Rani

I have no idea what you mean by "unnecessary risks."

-The La Raza gang would eliminate any enforcement of the border, and would eliminate any inspections or restrictions. I don't don't see that endiung well.

Originally Posted by The Rani

... having done quite a few rotations at Texas Childrens Hospital as a med student, I can take a pretty good guess. They were probably a V.I.P. family, who had a relationship with TCH because of their son's "underlying medical illness" (whatever that happened to be) and yeah, either paid their own way or made large contributions to the hospital...

-Fair Enough. I'll leave Odin, Marx & Lennon, and company to rail against THE RICH.

Originally Posted by playwrite

As you mentioned, when you say "tighten up the border" that is inclusive of illegal immigrants as well as legal immigrants, visitors from the North as well as the South, livestock, products ect. When Slick refers to "tighten up the border," it is exclusively about illegal immigrants. That is not mind reading; show me a post where he did otherwise...

1) In the case of H1N1, the problem isn't with "products" or "livestock"; it's with people. Besides, with NAFTA, you can only go so far in resticting goods from Mexico or Canada before the "victimized" country will claim it amounts to protectionism. Personally, I have no problem with quarantine or inspection; if the US government could do it properly at Ellis Island over 100 years ago, you'd figure that it would be easier today...

2) By definition, an Illegal is disproportionately likely to come in with any number of problems (including disease); that's why they came in illegally in the first place; refernce back to Ellis Island days. Duh.

BTW, no recognition from PW that this was his topic to begin with:

Originally Posted by playwrite

... The real question is why you are not over at Faux News helping them stir up fear about brown people slipping over the border to infect our women and children?

BTW, why would PW have any problem with making sure that people don't slip into the USA illegally for any reason, eh?

Originally Posted by playwrite

...Perhaps I shouldn't stoop to his level.

-Uh huh. I'm not the one who communicates with obscenities, or who fantasizes about his opponents being turned into some sort of homosexual sex slave. I do like to point out many of our posters hypocrisies and inconsistency of thought, but I try to keep it clean and non-violent.

Originally Posted by playwrite

...I'll take your suggestion under advisement. Thanks!

-Yeah. I bet that lasts for 24 hours.

---

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly, and even the occasional Silent) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not.

Originally Posted by playwrite

Perhaps within the context of this thread alone, you may have a point. However, on a number of other threads, I have been dealing with this hateful moron for some time, as well as have many others.

Perhaps I shouldn't stoop to his level. I'll take your suggestion under advisement. Thanks!

No, you shouldn't. Just my two cents.

If we're going to close the border against swine flu, we need to quarantine our own people returning from Mexico until we're sure they don't have it, as wel las Mexicans coming here, as a public health measure. That our people "belong here" by nationality means nothing to a virus. I was shocked yesterday when the President of UNM asked all UNM people currently in Mexico to please come home. With the flu? I don't THINK so!

Originally Posted by The Rani

...I also don't think that you're correct that "illegals" have more diseases than most. Unless you have data somewhere to back that up?

1) How would we get stat's? If they do, we wouldn't know;

2) Illlegals tend not to be the pick of the litter (if they were, they wouldn't have to sneak in).

Originally Posted by The Rani

...animals undergoing long distance transport are more stressed, and more likely to get these illnesses than others...

-That sounds reasonable.

Originally Posted by The Rani

...It's like you think that returning U.S. citizens and legal immigrants are somehow sanitized...

-Huh? Ellis Island was for legal immigrants. Do you think Illegals lined up at Ellis Island to be inspected? That would have made them Legals.

I mean, diagnoses c. 1889 weren't what they are today; they're faster and more accurate. Plus, post-Pasteur, Lister, and Goethals, we have a better idea of how disease is spread (i.e., not "Swamp Gas").

Originally Posted by The Rani

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_he_me/med_swine_flu_bird_fluis

This the scenario that has some scientists worried: The two viruses meet — possibly in Asia, where bird flu is endemic — and combine into a new bug that is both highly contagious and lethal and can spread around the world.

Scientists are unsure how likely this possibility is, but note that the new swine flu strain — a never-before-seen mixture of pig, human and bird viruses — has shown itself to be especially adept at snatching evolutionarily advantageous genetic material from other flu viruses.

"But there is in fact discussion of putting them together — in a high-security laboratory — to see what a combination would look like, according to Webster. "

Geez... maybe I oughta just move to Boulder right now already!

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

"But there is in fact discussion of putting them together — in a high-security laboratory — to see what a combination would look like, according to Webster. "

Geez... maybe I oughta just move to Boulder right now already!

Heh. Better there than to Vegas. We all remember how that turned out...

I'll stay with grandma in nebraska

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

"But there is in fact discussion of putting them together — in a high-security laboratory — to see what a combination would look like, according to Webster. "

Geez... maybe I oughta just move to Boulder right now already!

I'll be sure to look for a duo on a motorcycle with a Maine license plate driving through so I can join them.

Too bad we won't be able to stop in Georgia and keep that little boy from falling into that ditch and dieing though... nor keep that woman from shooting herself in hysteria.

~Chas'88

Swine Flu May Be Human Error

Adrian Gibbs, 75, who collaborated on research that led to the development of Roche Holding AG’s Tamiflu drug, said in an interview that he intends to publish a report suggesting the new strain may have accidentally evolved in eggs scientists use to grow viruses and drugmakers use to make vaccines. Gibbs said he came to his conclusion as part of an effort to trace the virus’s origins by analyzing its genetic blueprint. “One of the simplest explanations is that it’s a laboratory escape,” Gibbs said in an interview with Bloomberg Television today.

Of course, those paragons of integrity and openness, the WHO ("there is no evidence of infection in pigs, nor of humans acquiring infection directly from pigs.") and the CDC ("US rooting around for a new name for swine flu") came right out to say that the theory is absolutely, no way nohow just not even the slightest, remotest bit possible. So we know they're right.

Originally Posted by The Rani

I wonder if mutations can happen faster on factory farms? If we ever get answers to these questions, it will have to come from a scientist like this guy, not the public agencies. The government slogan after 911 was "Go Shopping," and now it's "Eat Pork." Soon to be followed by "Get Vaccinated." Identifying pig farmers and/or medical researchers as the source of the problem is not something that they're going to do, whether it's accurate or not.

I wouldn't defame all the scientists, or even all of them working for the government. Yes, there are politicians and public relations people who are furthering the interests of big business, or telling The People stuff that will make them behave like nice complacent sheep. Your opinion of the government scientists making calming pronouncements about factory pig farming is quite similar to my opinion of Bush 43's global warming "scientists." Politicians do spin science, and they should do less or it.

But just finding someone to blame or disparaging large blocks of people is not overly constructive. Whether it's Republicans and Democrats disparaging each other, or boomers and Xers, or scientific laymen dumping on professionals, not a lot comes out of closing one's mind to ideas. Yes, one should follow the money trail, and be aware of conflicts of interests, but one can't just throw away all options that don't agree with what one wants to hear.

Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is on to something. Fish farms where they load the feed with antibiotics have resulted in crashes in the population of the wild fish. If one believes in evolution, it isn't hard to figure out that crowding encourages disease, and bugs will evolve to survive antibiotics. I have no clue whether this particular bug might be a lab escape or something bred in the factories, but either seems plausible.