For any one not aware, this might be one reason the protest do not go away -

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_w...d_in_iran.html

I would recommend NOT watching the video. It is one of those things you will wrestle with for the rest of your life - i.e., why is the world so f'd up?

I remember something like this happened with the overthrow of the Shah - the death of a young protestor shown over and over again on shared VHS vidio tape. Tradional periods of mourning at 3 days and at 40 days became big and bigger days of protest. The authorities seem to have clipped the 3-day mark protest for Neda, but the 40-day may eventually be the on that tells the story.

Very sad.

Originally Posted by AlexMnWi

While about a different issue (war, elections), the fatal shooting of "Neda," a 27-year-old female protestor which was captured by amateur video and is on YouTube (rather graphic, but it's just blood, nothing else, and this version is blurred) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRiLa8j7Js0 seems to me to be not a bad parallel to Kent State. Everyone has seen those pictures of that man lying face down in the street on Kent State with that woman crying over him after he'd been shot by the Guard. It's in history books. Well, with this all over YouTube it makes it a big deal right away, and makes her a martyr for the opposition protests. I wonder if the prognosis of this is for her death to become a rallying cry down the road, just like the Kent State Massacre became one.

That was my immediate thought. Who can ever forget that iconic image of the Kent State girl with her arms out in agony, crying as she crouches above the dead body of a fallen student?

I usually don't post on this division of the forum but wanted to respond to the post about progressive Iranians not taking a rigged election lying down. But how come we did? We barely raised an eyebrow over the seeming rigged election of Dubya over Gore in 2000.

Does anyone here feel that the same kind of social unrest you are now seeing in Iran could happen here? With the failing economy and other pathologies it seems that somehow it could. Or are we too prone to taking just about everything lying down? IOW, too scared to get involved. Seems to me there are pathologies we have that didn't exist back in the 1960's, such as the financial massacre of whole cities with the destruction of our industrial base. In fact, many urban areas today are actually worse off than they were at that time. And I'm sure the list could go on and on. Or do you think we have just decided to try and changes things from within rather than trying to force them from without, as took place in the 1960's? Might Obama be pressured to move in a more populist direction?

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

I usually don't post on this division of the forum but wanted to respond to the post about progressive Iranians not taking a rigged election lying down. But how come we did? We barely raised an eyebrow over the seeming rigged election of Dubya over Gore in 2000...

-The NYT, which would have loved to claim that Mr. Gore "really" won in 2000, checked the chads over & over, and sadly came to the conclusion that Governor Bush won. Move on.

Here's this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama

[President Obama] suggested Iran's leaders will face consequences if they continue "the threats, the beatings and imprisonments" against protesters.

Ooo... I bet the Mullahs are quaking in fear.

Why is BO thankful for The Surge? Because Iraq is the biggest part of his foreign policy which isn't falling apart. Luckily for Him, we ignored Him...

Just think, if former VP Gore went for a Florida statewide recount, he may have won after all.

Gore apparently would have won a statewide recount, but the Supreme Court never would have allowed it--or the Florida legislature would have awarded the votes to Bush, as it was preparing to do. We had a coup d'etat, yes.

A few comments on Iran:

1. No one knows who won that election or by how much. Well-informed observers with no axe to grind expected Ahmedinejad to win. But, like the US government in 1970, the Iranian government has clearly lost all credibility with much of its population.

2. I like the Kent State analogy because I'm convinced Iran had a 4T in 1979, undoing 60 years of following the western model, and is having an Awakening now. However, like the Soviet awakening of 1955-65, it is likely to be successfully crushed. If it isn't I'll have to reconsider my position. Let's push the Kent State analogy a little further. Yes, if you were just watching TV from 1969-72 it looked like we were on the verge of a leftist youth revolution. But what happened in the 1972 election?

3. From what I can make out there was no difference in the Iranian candidates about nukes.

He lost that high-ground and picked individual counties for recounts. It would have served him and his voters justice if he right away asked for a statewide recount. I am not sure of the election laws down there but there must have been something. If not, blame the legislature.

Originally Posted by wtrg8

He lost that high-ground and picked individual counties for recounts. It would have served him and his voters justice if he right away asked for a statewide recount. I am not sure of the election laws down there but there must have been something. If not, blame the legislature.

I would guess that the Florida Supremes could have ordered the recount and the Rehnquist five would have reversed that order.

PW keeps ignoring the fact that President Obama is now one of The Surge's biggest fans.

Is PW disagreeing with His Majesty?

PW puts this out from the Heritage Foundation (APR 2007):

Originally Posted by playwrite

With the creeping possibility of a nuclear breakout, its vigorous sponsorship of international terrorism and its escalating intervention next door in Iraq, the Islamic Republic of Iran is a triple threat — at least — to international security and America's Middle Eastern interests. Indeed, perhaps no country fits the definition of rogue state as well as Iran does. Making matters worse, Iran's confidence and clout in the region — and beyond — are indubitably on the rise.

-The Heritage Foundation missed a few facts (or wrote too soon).

Again, PW's "facts":

Originally Posted by playwrite

...Under Bush, the Iranian Mullahs were solid within their own borders and in ascendancy in influence in Iraq...

-That ended in 2007, (the year the article was written) when The Surge crushed the renegade elements of the Jaysh Al-Mahdi, and Muqtuddr Al-Sadr ran like a little girl for Iran.

Of course, Senator Obama voted against The Surge, before he voted for it...

Originally Posted by playwrite

... Syria...

-The Israelis put Syria in it's place when they bombed that their nuclear facility in FEB 2008.

I don't think President Obama had anything to do with that.

Originally Posted by playwrite

... Lebanon...their Hezbollah boys in Lebanon got voted down

-That started in 2005, with the so-called "Cedar Revolution"...

I don't think BO had anything to do with that, either.

...I could also add that Hamas, which recently got support from Iran, got an Israeli spanking not too long ago.

I forget, what role did Seantor Obama have in that (other than to equate the two sides)? Oh, that's right, NONE.

...I could also point out that according to the last National Intelligence Estimate, that Iran mysteriously stopped it's nuclear program in the summer/fall of 2003.

Hmm... 2003, what happened in Iran's neighborhood in 2003...

Originally Posted by playwrite

...Who knows where these events of late will take Iran and its people?

-True.

So far, it's resulted in Iranian corpses littering the streets, with the political selection of said corpses distinctly one-sided:

Originally Posted by playwrite

I would recommend NOT watching the video. It is one of those things you will wrestle with for the rest of your life - i.e., why is the world so f'd up... Very sad...

-Is the above what PW would call "Dancing on Corpses", or is it a case of "Turd Polishing"?

Or both?

Time will tell.

I can hardly wait for PW's thoughtful, point by point refutation of my arguments, which will undoubtedly include some reference to bodily excretions.

BTW, I've yet to see anyone address the fact that if Musavi had won, that the Mullahs would still have all the real power.

Originally Posted by playwrite

... But one thing for sure is we no longer have a moronic cowboy in the White House being lead around by a megalomaniac VP making things worst, much worst.

-No, Instead, we have a moronic blabber-mouth of a VP, and a megalomaniacal White House that the Mullahs have no fear of; so far, the lesson the Mullahs have learned iis that President Obama is a joke.

As I said, I'm sure the Mullah's are quaking in fear...

BTW, when President GWB pointed out that Iran was a threat back in 2001, people like PW and the current Commander-in-Chief derided him as a "simplistic cowboy". I guess BO & PW both got their wake-up call; too bad it's almost 8 years later...

BTW, George W. Bush's SAT score was 1206 (old school), which roughly equates to an IQ score of 125:

http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=292960

http://www.iuptown.com/YaleProtest/bushs_yale_transcript.htm

http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

...I keep forgetting; what was President Obama's SAT score?

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

PW keeps ignoring the fact that President Obama is now one of The Surge's biggest fans.

Is PW disagreeing with His Majesty?

PW puts this out from the Heritage Foundation (APR 2007):



-The Heritage Foundation missed a few facts (or wrote too soon).

Again, PW's "facts":



-That ended in 2007, (the year the article was written) when The Surge crushed the renegade elements of the Jaysh Al-Mahdi, and Muqtuddr Al-Sadr ran like a little girl for Iran.

Of course, Senator Obama voted against The Surge, before he voted for it...



-The Israelis put Syria in it's place when they bombed that their nuclear facility in FEB 2008.

I don't think President Obama had anything to do with that.



-That started in 2005, with the so-called "Cedar Revolution"...

I don't think BO had anything to do with that, either.

...I could also add that Hamas, which recently got support from Iran, got an Israeli spanking not too long ago.

I forget, what role did Seantor Obama have in that (other than to equate the two sides)? Oh, that's right, NONE.

...I could also point out that according to the last National Intelligence Estimate, that Iran mysteriously stopped it's nuclear program in the summer/fall of 2003.

Hmm... 2003, what happened in Iran's neighborhood in 2003...



-True.

So far, it's resulted in Iranian corpses littering the streets, with the political selection of said corpses distinctly one-sided:



-Is the above what PW would call "Dancing on Corpses", or is it a case of "Turd Polishing"?

Or both?

Time will tell.

I can hardly wait for PW's thoughtful, point by point refutation of my arguments, which will undoubtedly include some reference to bodily excretions.

BTW, I've yet to see anyone address the fact that if Musavi had won, that the Mullahs would still have all the real power.



-No, Instead, we have a moronic blabber-mouth of a VP, and a megalomaniacal White House that the Mullahs have no fear of; so far, the lesson the Mullahs have learned iis that President Obama is a joke.

As I said, I'm sure the Mullah's are quaking in fear...

BTW, when President GWB pointed out that Iran was a threat back in 2001, people like PW and the current Commander-in-Chief derided him as a "simplistic cowboy". I guess BO & PW both got their wake-up call; too bad it's almost 8 years later...

BTW, George W. Bush's SAT score was 1206 (old school), which roughly equates to an IQ score of 125:

http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=292960

http://www.iuptown.com/YaleProtest/bushs_yale_transcript.htm

http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

...I keep forgetting; what was President Obama's SAT score?



-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

A sure sign of a lazy turd polisher - posting the same post on two different threads. Pathetic, man, really pathetic. What a dipstick.

Originally Posted by playwrite

After 8 years of the cowboy and his morons, Obama's in office 5 months and the Mullahs go from greatly feared regional hegemony to the now considered illegitimate government...

1) After 4 years of President Bush, the Taliban were deposed in Afghanistan, the Ba'athists were out in Iraq, and Libya gave up the search for WMD. So far, nothing like that has happened with President Obama with Iran; the Mullahs are still in charge, and nothing which has happened in the past 2 weeks is likely to change that.

2) The Iranian government has always been seen as illegitimate by anyone except degenerates (like BO, up until 2 weeks ago). Guess what? The Mullahs are still in charge. Nothing has changed (except, of course, for dead Iranians).

BTW, I never got an answer to this:

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

BTW, George W. Bush's SAT score was 1206 (old school), which roughly equates to an IQ score of 125:

http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=292960

http://www.iuptown.com/YaleProtest/bushs_yale_transcript.htm

http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

...I keep forgetting; what was President Obama's SAT score...

Originally Posted by playwrite

A sure sign of a lazy turd polisher - posting the same post on two different threads. Pathetic, man, really pathetic. What a dipstick...

Originally Posted by playwrite

...No wonder you and your ilk are trying to polish your turds so shinny.

Reminds me of a tree falling in the woods - when Slick polishes his turds, does anyone in the t-park hear him?

-Oh, such language.

I posted it twice because it was appropriate to both threads, just as this part of my reply is appropriate to both threads. It's also for the benefit of those who don't read every single post on every single thread.

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows. [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

Actually, I'm very pleased that you find it necessary to give the Haymarket warning with your posts and that you go even farther to lay out the so-called hypocrisies of the Left. I'm sure the warning serves its purpose for new forum members. And, once warned, the juxtaposition of your cry of hypocrisy against your own countless turd polishing attempts does more for troll recognition that anything I, Haymarket or any number of posters (who have given up on you) could ever hope to provide.

Could it be that deep down, you recognize your "inner turd," and the shame makes you give warning? Would we call this behavior a "fart?"

Originally Posted by playwrite

Actually, I'm very pleased that you find it necessary to give the Haymarket warning with your posts and that you go even farther to lay out the so-called hypocrisies of the Left...

-I doubt it.

Thinking of hypocrites, we have Haymarket' calling a guy who served his nation in uniform a draft-dodger:

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

...The draft dodger slacker Bush was made to be the candidate of patriots...

..when it's Haymarket himself who's the draft-dodger:

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

Well I burned my draft card at the UN in New York City in 1969 and be prepared to do all that sort of thing again if conscription into the military were to be brought back.

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

...Its just the idea of forced conscription into the military that drives me crazy. After I got my CO deferment in 1971, I discovered that my maternal grandfather emigrated from Poland in the WWI years because he did not want to be conscripted. I guess it runs in the family...

Go figure.

Originally Posted by playwrite

...your own countless turd polishing attempts does more for troll recognition... Could it be that deep down, you recognize your "inner turd," and the shame makes you give warning? Would we call this behavior a "fart?"

-More example of Playwrite's Tourette's Syndrome.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

-I doubt it.

Thinking of hypocrites, we have Haymarket' calling a guy who served his nation in uniform a draft-dodger:

Now this has to be the best example, if not the funniest, attempt of yours at turd polishing. Anyone back then, who either served or went through the hell of draft-dodging that FUBAR'd war would laugh in your ignorant face over this one. What a tool you are!

pw Anyone back then, who either served or went through the hell of draft-dodging that FUBAR'd war would laugh in your ignorant face over this one.

-Playwrite has got to be kidding; there are plenty of draft-dodgers who have faked military records in order to gain some phony respect from the public. When was the last time anyone heard of someone who had served, pretending to have been a draft-dodger?

Anyone who went thru' the hell of actually bothering to serve their nation in uniform (at any time) would laugh in PW's & Haymarket's ignorant faces.

"Oh, I'm a draft-dodger!I had to show up at the induction center for an entire day! I went thru' hell!"

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

-----------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

pw Anyone back then, who either served or went through the hell of draft-dodging that FUBAR'd war would laugh in your ignorant face over this one.

-Playwrite has got to be kidding; there are plenty of draft-dodgers who have faked military records in order to gain some phony respect from the public. When was the last time anyone heard of someone who had served, pretending to have been a draft-dodger?

Anyone who went thru' the hell of actually bothering to serve their nation in uniform (at any time) would laugh in PW's & Haymarket's ignorant faces.

"Oh, I'm a draft-dodger!I had to show up at the induction center for an entire day! I went thru' hell!"

Your ignorance about the 60s is clearly evident here. You can do something about that, Slick, its called reading.

Just as you found out, one can be in the miliary and sit on their ass, nice and snug, for much, if not all of their tours, a draft-dodger can also be just simply not showing up at the center and going on with their lives, no one the wiser. For others, however, it meant leaving the country and wrecking family relationships that lasted a lifetime. Sure, some, like your former President, did it (or actually his daddy did for him) only to save their own asses, but others did it out of principle and many continue to pay for it to this day, some 40-odd years later.

I realize that you have a problem with this concept of "principle" but it still needed to be said.

Originally Posted by playwrite

...For other [draft-dodgers], however, it meant leaving the country and wrecking family relationships that lasted a lifetime...

-Oh! Boo Hoo Hoo!

I once did a search for VietNam vet's who give a crap; couldn't find any!

They could have avoided "leaving the country and wrecking family relationships that lasted a lifetime" if they had done their 2 years active, or signed up for 6 years in the Guard or Reserve. Let their difficulties be a lesson on what not to do for future generations- a lesson that will probably come in handy for this 4T.

Originally Posted by playwrite

...Sure, some, like your former President [uh, OUR former President], did it (or actually his daddy did for him)...

-Uh, actually, the Texas Air National Guard accepted the young GWB because they needed F-102 pilots; Soviet bombers, and all that.

Originally Posted by playwrite

...I realize that you have a problem with this concept of "principle" but it still needed to be said.

-Ah, yes, the "principle" that we must not upset the communists; they had a new world to create, after all. Maybe Playwrite would like to do some reading on the results of post-1973 SE Asia, or perhaps he could simply ask a SE Asian immigrant...

Originally Posted by playwrite

Actually, I'm very pleased that you find it necessary to give the Haymarket warning with your posts and that you go even farther to lay out the so-called hypocrisies of the Left. I'm sure the warning serves its purpose for new forum members...

-Again, I doubt it.

I almost forgot one of the crowning glories of Leftie Boomer Hypocrisy: Haymarket Non-Martyr, who dodged paying his Military Service Tax* back in 1969 because he was supposedly a "Conscientious Objector":

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

...Its just the idea of forced conscription into the military that drives me crazy. After I got my CO deferment in 1971, I discovered that my maternal grandfather emigrated from Poland in the WWI years because he did not want to be conscripted. I guess it runs in the family...

...who, 40 years later, can't wait to call in targets:

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

...I would call an air strike tonight on the ten or twenty biggest pirate mansions in Somalia.

Make sure they get the message.

Uh huh.

*BTW, it must be nice to decide which government obligations you get to fulfill, and which ones you don't; do I get to do that with the SS Ponzi Scheme, or the Productivity Punishment Tax (AKA income tax)?

-----------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

- Let their difficulties be a lesson on what not to do for future generations- a lesson that will probably come in handy for this 4T.

The lesson being do whatever your country tells you to do without question or protest. You dudes on the Right are so schizo.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

-Uh, actually, the Texas Air National Guard accepted the young GWB because they needed F-102 pilots; Soviet bombers, and all that.

rub, rub, polish, polish...

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

-Ah, yes, the "principle" that we must not upset the communists; they had a new world to create, after all. Maybe Playwrite would like to do some reading on the results of post-1973 SE Asia, or perhaps he could simply ask a SE Asian immigrant...

rub, rub, polish, polish...amazing, the Slick never tires, no matter how big the turd.

Hey, I've been to Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos about 3x each in the last 10 years - pretty nice places when no one is shooting at you.

Originally Posted by playwrite

The lesson being do whatever your country tells you to do without question or protest...

-Citizens don't get to decide which obligations the fulfill, and which ones they don't, at least according to the hypocritical Haymarket:

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

...we do not allow anyone to volunteer which taxes they decide to elect to pay out of the goodness of their hearts and which taxes they opt to not pay out of any other reason they may have...

Originally Posted by playwrite

Hey, I've been to Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos about 3x each in the last 10 years - pretty nice places when no one is shooting at you.

-The above is an example of what PW calls "turd polishing". Guess what, Leftie visitors to Cuba say the same thing. I doubt that Playwrite ended up visting a Communist re-education camp, or being executed.

You guys are really mindless leaches waiting for your next feeding sessions from FATHER. I do agree with the President on doing nothing about the Iran election. It is another way to trick Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in believing he is legitimate. As long as we have NeoCons/ Zionists, that is all the Iranian President needs to get by. We had our shot at saying something in 1979!!!

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

-The above is an example of what PW calls "turd polishing". Guess what, Leftie visitors to Cuba say the same thing. I doubt that Playwrite ended up visting a Communist re-education camp, or being executed.

You probable are getting Lefties confused with this Nam-era draft dodger-

http://www.vietnamembassy-usa.org/ne...20061121124139

PRESIDENT BUSH VISITS VIETNAM

Bush praises Vietnam’s rise, hopes for stronger ties

Meeting Vietnamese leaders Friday, US President George W. Bush praised Vietnam for its dynamic socio-economic development and expressed his wish that bilateral ties would be further developed.
Bush affirmed Vietnam was an important partner for the US and hoped bilateral relations and dialogues would develop further on issues of common concern.

The US President and his wife arrived in Hanoi Friday morning on a four-day visit to attend the 14th APEC Economic Leaders’ Meeting in Hanoi. This is the second official visit to Vietnam by a US President.

Originally Posted by wtrg8

... I do agree with the President on doing nothing about the Iran election. It is another way to trick Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in believing he is legitimate...

-Ooooh.

President Obama is really pulling one over on Ahmadinejad!

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Such an IQ [President GWB's estimated 125] is decidedly above average -- but what one does with it matters greatly....

-That's true of anyone; there's no ASVAB for common sense.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

He [GWB] has frequently used word games to create a fluidity between meanings conventionally accepted and a reality that isn't so broadly accepted...

-I think you're confusing Bush with President Clinton.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

He failed to complete his flight training in the TxANG because he preferred to "fly" with the aid of chemicals to flying an aircraft...

-Uh, check again. GWB completed his flight training as an F-102 pilot and earned his wings.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

[On Presient Obama's IQ/SAT score] High enough to get into a first-rate university (Columbia) without a legacy, high enough to graduate with honors; high enough to get into a first-rate law school (which Dubya couldn't do), graduate from it, and pass the bar examination.

-Uh, you're forgetting that BO was a minority set-aside.

I still haven't seen an IQ or estimated IQ for President Obama (the man who doesn't speak very well minus speechwriters & teleprompter).

I pointed this out wrt SE Asia:

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

...Leftie visitors to Cuba say the same thing. I doubt that Playwrite ended up visting a Communist re-education camp, or being executed.

...Playwrite replied with this:

Originally Posted by playwrite

You probable are getting Lefties confused with this Nam-era draft dodger-

http://www.vietnamembassy-usa.org/news/story.php?d=20061121124139

1) PW is forgetting that GWB actually served his nation in uniform; something that a majority of his cohort failed to do;

2) Bush's statements about "progress" were in 2006, over twenty years after the executions and the re-education camps which were the legacy of the "Anti-War" movement. Considering what the Lefties' Communist buddies did in SE Asia 1975-1981, it wouldn't be hard to come up with "progress"...

BTW, the one person whose opinion on Haymarket's hypocritical draft-dodging I'd be most curious to hear, would be from the guy who got to take Mr Community Selflessness' place.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

1) PW is forgetting that GWB actually served his nation in uniform; something that a majority of his cohort failed to do;

That is a pretty silly statement. With the possible exception of WW2 and the Southern side of the Civil war, a majority of cohorts in uniform doesn't happen.

The question isn't about Bush learning to fly on his way to avoiding Nam. It isn't even about whether he nefariously avoided Nam as, for example, an excerpt from Wiki might suggest -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_...ce_controversy

During the 1968–1974 period, Presidents Johnson and Nixon decided against calling up National Guard units for service in Vietnam. As a result, National Guard service was widely portrayed as a way to avoid combat. The waiting list for the Guard at that time was extremely long, and there have been charges that young men from influential families were improperly moved to the top of the list. A similar accusation was leveled at Dan Quayle, who served in the Indiana National Guard, and was Vice President from 1989 to 1993.

Folks can make up their own mind if Bush's approach that led to his being able to avoid Nam was nefarious or not.

What the point here is the amount of time, effort and presumptions you make in trying to justify Bush's questionable path. Why bother?

Answer - Its because its your nature to turd polish.

It is why I still take great pleasure in your not only posting Haymarkets' warning about yourself but you go on to provide this gem -

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.

I'm sure most readers of your posts enjoy the double irony of it and the fact that you don't recognize the irony. It is the near perfect example of the current GOP - you know, the party of family values and small government?

Have fun wondering the wilderness for the next 30-40 years.

Originally Posted by playwrite

...The question isn't about Bush learning to fly on his way to avoiding Nam...

What the point here is the amount of time, effort and presumptions you make in trying to justify Bush's questionable path. Why bother?

-Playwrite was the one who brought up the issue of President BGW Bush's military service, not me:

Originally Posted by playwrite

...Sure, some, like your former President, did it (or actually his daddy did for him) only to save their own asses, but others did it out of principle and many continue to pay for it to this day, some 40-odd years later...

...I find it amusing that people who didn't serve ONE DAY in uniform would attack those who did, while defending hypocrites like Haymarket, who falsely claim "conscientious objector" status:

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

...After I got my CO deferment in 1971...

...then deride others who actually did serve:

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

...The draft dodger slacker Bush was made to be the candidate of patriots...

..and then fantasize about calling in air strikes:

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

To put the period at the end of todays sentence, I would call an air strike tonight on the ten or twenty biggest pirate mansions in Somalia...

Originally Posted by playwrite

...With the possible exception of WW2 and the Southern side of the Civil war, a majority of cohorts in uniform doesn't happen...

1) Which would prove my prove my point; Lieutenant Bush did to serve his nature in uniform than most of his 1946 cohort;

2) Plenty of other cohorts had over 50% Military Participation Ratios:

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

Another work is "The Draft, 1940-1973", Flynn (1993), which both critiques & references "Chance & Circumstances". "The Draft" gives specific figures for some cohorts:

1931: 66% male Military Participation Ratio (including National Guard & Reserves);
1932: 70% male Military Participation Ratio (including National Guard & Reserves);
1936: 58% male Military Participation Ratio (including National Guard & Reserves)...

3) I suspect that the Military Participation Ratio was over 50% in northern states for the 1843-1844 corhorts, at least;

4) It was definitely higher in southern states, since they were providing guys for both sides (not just the CSA);

5) Strangely, it was probably lowest in the border states, where conscription was weakly enforced.

Originally Posted by playwrite

...It isn't even about whether he [GWB] nefariously avoided Nam...

Hmmm... a majority of guys who did go on active duty "avoided Nam" too:

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

From Figure 1, p. 5, "Chance & Cirumstance", Baskir & Strauss (1978):

Of 8.615M Total Who Served during the VN Era:

7.612M Active Duty Forces (28.4% of draft-age men, inc. 37K mobilized National Guard & Reserve);

1.003M National Guard & Reserve never Mobilized (3.7% of draft-age men never mobilized).

[of whom]

2.15M Served in VN (8.0% of draft-age men);

6.465M Served on Active Duty**, but not in VN (24.1% of draft-age men).

** I don't have exact figures for the shooting wars in the Dominican Republic 1965-1966 (45K?, or 0.2% of draft-age men?), or the Republic of Korea 1966-1974 (366K during VN Era?, or 1.4% of draft-age men?), and others. There would be some overlap with VietNam...

...so, what's the point?

Originally Posted by haymarket martyr

WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

Originally Posted by jamesdglick

-Playwrite was the one who brought up the issue of President BGW Bush's military service, not me:

Yea, but only after you brought up some sort of fight you are having with another poster that has nothing to do with this topic.

What I brought up originally is your polishing this turd called the Iraq Invasion by trying to suggest it had anything to do with the recent voter revolt in Iran.

Most sober analysis, including two NIEs, clearly state that Iran would (NIE just before the invasion) and did (NIE on Iran’s nuclear capabilities) significantly increase its hegemony in the region as a result of the Invasion. And not just due to the fact of a now Shia-dominated govt there that pays attention (you can argue to what degree) to the Iranian Mullahs, nor to just the fact that we removed the Mullahs greatest enemy, Saddam, or their second biggest problem, the Taliban, nor just to the fact of our losing the prestige and persuasiveness with others (the EU, Russia, China) to push the Iranians on their nuclear efforts. It is all these things and more coupled to the myopic focus on Iraq that missed key opportunities to put the Iranians in a box. Its the same myopic asinine focus that led us to count on the Pakistan border guards to 'net' bin Laden for us, that let Afghanistan tumble back into a haven for terrorists, and, most troubling, let a nuclear-tipped Pakistan nearly fall into the hands of the terrorists.

You're not only turd polishing but you're doing it while completely blinded with your head far up in your ass.

This is exactly why we can never again let you morons get the keys to the car.