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Thread: Iran - Page 3







Post#51 at 07-08-2009 11:01 AM by SVE-KRD [at joined Apr 2007 #posts 1,097]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Have fun wandering the wilderness for the next 30-40 years.
Is that all? I have gotten the impression that you would want the remaining Repubs and their fellow travellers 're-educated'.







Post#52 at 07-08-2009 11:33 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by SVE-KRD View Post
Is that all? I have gotten the impression that you would want the remaining Repubs and their fellow travellers 're-educated'.
Now where would the fun be in that?

Actually, there are some smart, informed and honest people who have leaned to the Right for the last 25-30 years; most of them now consider themselves Independents and voted for Obama and other Dems where it made sense for them. There may be others that will eventually come around once they get fully out of their 3T mindsets and really begin to question their 3T assumptions and the memes that they are now drowning in. I would welcome them to rational and honest discourse over the best direction for the Nation - the Left doesn't have all the answers and the can create substantial problems if left completely unchecked - but, that is nowhere near what today's problems are.

Then there is the hardcore, from Cheney down to Slick -- re-educate? Why bother? Besides, we deserve some source of entertainment during this 4T - cranky old white dudes might just be the ticket!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#53 at 07-08-2009 12:02 PM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Actually, there are some smart, informed and honest people who have leaned to the Right for the last 25-30 years; most of them now consider themselves Independents and voted for Obama and other Dems where it made sense for them.
You got me blushing now.







Post#54 at 07-09-2009 01:54 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...
Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
that is nothing compared to the geo-political detriments of this war as I posted on the other thread - Iranian hegemony with a lot more nuclear material/capability than they had before...
...uh, the Iranians were progressing on nukes long before 2001 (just like the North Koreans); Does Playwrite understand that the nuclear djinni is out of the bottle?

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...Most sober analysis, including two NIEs, clearly state that Iran would (NIE just before the invasion) and did (NIE on Iran’s nuclear capabilities) significantly increase its hegemony in the region as a result of the Invasion...
...uh, I think PW is referring to the exact same NIE that stated that the Iranians scrapped their nuclear program immediately after the Invasion. So, on the Iranian Nuke issue alone, we gained a few years. What President Obama does with it (if anything; so far, he looks like a joke to the Mullahs), we shall see; he's still got three years.

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
... the fact that we removed the Mullahs greatest enemy, Saddam, or their second biggest problem, the Taliban...
-I don't think Playwrite is advocating that we should have kept the Ba'athists and Taliban in power as a bulwark vs. Iran, is he?

I posted this:

Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-Playwrite was the one who brought up the issue of President BGW Bush's military service, not me...
..to which PW replied:

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Yea, but only after you brought up some sort of fight you are having with another poster that has nothing to do with this topic...
FALSE. PW posted this:

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...then fearless (draft-dodging) leader...
...and then this:

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...I'm very pleased that you find it necessary to give the Haymarket warning with your posts and that you go even farther to lay out the so-called hypocrisies of the Left...
...so I pointed out a real example of a draft-dodging hypocritical fraud (in the person of Haymarket'), who never served a day in uniform, because he falsely claimed to be a Conscientious Objector. For some reason, PW actually tried to put up a defense for the scumbag.

I wonder why.

Again, the guy we should ask about Haymarket's failure to fulfill his Military Service tax is the guy who took his place. I'd think that even PW could understand that.

Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.







Post#55 at 07-16-2009 04:10 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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I almost forgot; I'm going back to this one:

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...In 5 months in office, post-Cairo speech, they are shown to be illegitimate in their own country...


Besides ignoring the fact that the latest Iranian election was planned in 2005, when now-President Obama was still toadying to crooks in Illinois, and sleeping thru' Rev. Wright's sermons, PW is missing the point that if the latest (post-2009 election) riots have "de-legitimized" the Mullahs, then that makes them just like:

The 2003 riots (which de-legitimized the Mullahs...);

...and...

The 1999 riots (which de-legitimized the Mullahs...).

Somehow, being de-legitimized doesn't translate into "Out Of Power".

The real test are:

1) Since the 2009 post-election riots, which countries have stopped buying Iranian petroleum products?

2) Since the 2009 post-election riots, which countries have stopped buying Iranian pistachios?

(...That's all they've really got...)

3) Since the 2009 post-election riots, which countries have stopped selling arms to the Mullahs?

4) Since the 2009 post-election riots, have the Iranian people tried being something other than moving pop-up targets for the Basij?

...show me progress on those points, and I'll start to be interested.



BTW, I never got an answer wrt this:

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...Hey, I've been to Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos about 3x each in the last 10 years - pretty nice places...


-They might well be very nice places, decades after the fact.

When PW was supposedly in Laos & VietNam, did he just hang out in hotels, or did the Communists take him on a tour of where they murdered their political enemies, or to their re-education camps, so he could see the final harvest of America's so-called "Anti-War" movement?

When he went to Cambodia, did he enjoy his tour of the killing fields, the work of the "Anti-War" movements' Khemer Rouge buddies?

Why does he think hundreds of thousands of decent people fled those countries after the Communists took over?

And, I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look him up and thank him for his inconvienience...

Maybe on Veteran's Day?
---------------------
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.







Post#56 at 07-16-2009 09:20 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
... doesn't translate into "Out Of Power".
What is your point? Obama's failed because he hasn't invaded or nuke'd them?

Gad, the world needs to keep reminding itself of that sigh of relief when on Nov. 4, 2008 it became apparent that the adults were going to be back in charge in the good old US of A.


Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
... When PW was supposedly in Laos & VietNam, did he just hang out in hotels, or did the Communists take him on a tour of where they murdered their political enemies, or to their re-education camps, so he could see the final harvest of America's so-called "Anti-War" movement?

When he went to Cambodia, did he enjoy his tour of the killing fields, the work of the "Anti-War" movements' Khemer Rouge buddies?

Why does he think hundreds of thousands of decent people fled those countries after the Communists took over?
Do you still get a hard-on over the Japanese and Germans? Maybe the Yankees? Or, the Spanish? How about the English? Or, do you save your anger for any or all Native Americans that put up a fight?

If I can get over it, certainly someone who was at best still poopin in their diapers at the time can get over it.

Oh, and just to note, Cambodia is not communist; they are "a constitutional monarchy operated as a parliamentary representative democracy." Also, they defeated the Red Khmer decades ago. Try to keep up.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#57 at 07-17-2009 02:59 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Not til the fat lady...

This doesn't look like its over yet -

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/wo...exprod=myyahoo

As thousands of opposition protesters chanted in the streets of Tehran on Friday, the former Iranian president Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani assailed the government’s handling of the post-election unrest, saying it had lost the trust of many Iranians and calling for the release of hundreds of protesters and democracy advocates arrested in recent weeks.

Mr. Rafsanjani, speaking to a vast crowd at Tehran University that included the opposition leader Mir Hussein Moussavi and many of his supporters, called for unity and reconciliation in his prayer sermon. But he also said doubts about the election “are now consuming us” and called for a new spirit of compromise between the opposition and the government.

Outside the university’s prayer hall, police officers used tear gas and truncheons to disperse large crowds of protesters chanting anti-government slogans, and there were reports of at least 15 arrests. It was the largest street gathering by opposition supporters in weeks, witnesses said.

Mr. Rafsanjani, a powerful insider who supported Mr. Moussavi’s campaign, did not directly question the election results, which have been blessed by Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. But he made clear that he believed Mr. Khamenei, who has blamed foreign powers for the unrest and called for an end to protests, should take a more conciliatory stance. Calling the election aftermath a “crisis,” Mr. Rafsanjani urged that restrictions on the press and on free speech be removed, in addition to the freeing of those detained since the election.

Mr. Rafsanjani also criticized the Guardian Council, a powerful supervisory body that is loyal to Ayatollah Khamenei and that looked into possible election fraud, saying it did not make the best use of the time the supreme leader gave it to investigate.

“A large group” of Iranians say they have doubts about the election, Mr. Rafsanjani said. “We should work to address these doubts.”

He said he had discussed a possible solution with members of the Expediency Council and the Assembly of Experts, two powerful state institutions he heads. He said his proposed solution was based on two principles: that everything must be done within a legal framework, and that there must be a free and open debate.

Mr. Rafsanjani’s proposal was an implicit rebuke to Ayatollah Khamenei, who tried to close the door on the post-election turmoil in his own Friday Prayer speech in the same hall three weeks ago. Ayatollah Khamenei has long presented himself as a neutral arbiter who sits above Iran’s political disputes, but many Iranians say his support for Mr. Ahmadinejad has made the supreme leader seem a more partisan figure.

In that sense, Mr. Rafsanjani, a consummate pragmatist and bitter rival of Mr. Ahmadinejad, appeared to be reclaiming a central role as a mediating figure in the top of the Iranian power structure.
Rafsanjain wouldn't be doing this as a lark.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#58 at 07-18-2009 10:55 AM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...Rafsanjain wouldn't be doing this as a lark.
-Uh, Rafsanjaini and Ahmadinejad are from different factions, os yes, Rafsanjani would do this on a lark.

BTW, he's a Mullah; if his guys get in charge, it's more of the same. As amatter of fact, no matter who won the elections it would have been more of the same.

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
What is your point?
-Uh: "As amatter of fact, no matter who won the elections it would have been more of the same."

And President Obama's blatherings only encourage the bad guys.


Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Do you still get a hard-on over the Japanese and Germans? Maybe the Yankees?
1) Playwrite means the Japs & the Krauts. While was stationed in Germany, I had a saying: "The Krauts must never forget that they are a conquered people, or the reason for that conquest."

2) I am a Yankee, and in case he never bothered to notice, a Unionist, and the tag over my pocket said "US Army", and, later "US Navy", not "CS Army" and "CS Navy".

Or is PW talking about AWI? That would be the domain of the statist Canadians...

BTW, 31,000 white Tennesseans fought for the Union; there will be a class over on the "History & the Theory" threads...

As for the "Anti-War" movement's SE Asian Communist buddies, I asked this:

Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
...
Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
Why does he think hundreds of thousands of decent people fled those countries after the Communists took over?


-No answer.

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...Oh, and just to note, Cambodia is not communist; they are "a constitutional monarchy operated as a parliamentary representative democracy." Also, they defeated the Red Khmer decades ago. Try to keep up...
Tsk, tsk. PW needed to make a more careful reading; anyone will notice that I split them up:

Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
...When PW was supposedly in Laos & VietNam, did he just hang out in hotels, or did the Communists take him on a tour of where they murdered their political enemies, or to their re-education camps, so he could see the final harvest of America's so-called "Anti-War" movement?...


-I.E., First sentence; countries still Communist;


Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
...
Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
When he went to Cambodia, did he enjoy his tour of the killing fields, the work of the "Anti-War" movements' Khemer Rouge buddies?...


Second sentence (seperated), because country no longer Communist.

BTW, PW dodged the question; did he take a tour of the fruits of the the "Anti-War" movement's labors, or not?



And, I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look him up and thank him for his inconvienience...


Maybe on Veteran's Day?
---------------------
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows. [/QUOTE]







Post#59 at 07-18-2009 11:57 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
1) Playwrite means the Japs & the Krauts. While was stationed in Germany, I had a saying: "The Krauts must never forget that they are a conquered people, or the reason for that conquest."
Truly, you are a worth ambassador for your country.

as an aside, you confirm for me why the perspectives you managed to hear from the few foreigners with whom you've ever had contact seem so far removed from reality. You appear to have intentionally constructed for yourself a context into which no genuine opinion that didn't already accord to your own could possibly penetrate.

Whatever 'cosmopolitan' perspective you imagine you gained from those experiences needs to be taken with several shakers' worth of salt.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#60 at 07-18-2009 12:34 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
... the fact that we removed the Mullahs greatest enemy, Saddam, or their second biggest problem, the Taliban...
-Is Playwrite claiming that we should have kept the Ba'athists and Taliban in power as a bulwark vs. Iran?

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
Truly, you are a worth ambassador for your country...
-And don't you forget it...

Reminds me of the story about about a guy in the US State Department who would brief ambassadors before they went on their merry way. He would ask them "Could you show me your country on the map?", and inevitably, these knuckleheads would point to Buttfukistan or Upper Bojango; he would then stop them, point to the USA, and say "This is your country"...

Sometimes, a US ambassador needs to remember whose country he represents.

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
Whatever 'cosmopolitan' perspective you imagine you gained from those experiences needs to be taken with several shakers' worth of salt.
-Yeah, I'm sure that the some of the denizens of the ex-USSR gain great comfort in convincing themselves that they had the courage and brains to overthrow Communism all by themselves.

Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows. [/QUOTE]







Post#61 at 07-18-2009 12:42 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-Uh, Rafsanjaini and Ahmadinejad are from different factions, os yes, Rafsanjani would do this on a lark.

BTW, he's a Mullah; if his guys get in charge, it's more of the same. As amatter of fact, no matter who won the elections it would have been more of the same.
I remember not so long ago the inability of the Right wingnuts to discern the difference between Shia and Sunni that led to some 'brilliant' strategic moves. Seems like your glasses still haven't been fixed.

Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
1) Playwrite means...

Big Snip
Yea, you guys keep up all the historical hate - that's really going to be a big winner in today's world.

It's really not too amazing why you guys can't figure out why you're becoming less and less relevant.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#62 at 07-18-2009 02:50 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...remember not so long ago the inability of the Right wingnuts to discern the difference between Shia and Sunni ...
-That wasn't restricted to some on 'The Right"; I knew what Shi'ite were, when Playwrite still thought it was the Ebonics word for "feces".

Hmmm... Is Playwrite SERIOUSLY advocating for Rafsanjani?!

...and from his previous post:

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
... nor to just the fact that we removed the Mullahs greatest enemy, Saddam, or their second biggest problem, the Taliban...
...Is Playwrite claiming that we should have kept the Ba'athists and Taliban in power as a bulwark vs. Iran?

...I'm still curious to hear what PW's answers to these questions are (or anyone else's answers):

Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
...When PW was supposedly in Laos & VietNam, did he just hang out in hotels, or did the Communists take him on a tour of where they murdered their political enemies, or to their re-education camps, so he could see the final harvest of America's so-called "Anti-War" movement?


Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
...When he went to Cambodia, did he enjoy his tour of the killing fields, the work of the "Anti-War" movements' Khemer Rouge buddies?


Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
...Why does he think hundreds of thousands of decent people fled those countries after the Communists took over?


And, I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look him up and thank him for his inconvienience...

Maybe on Veteran's Day?


---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows. [/QUOTE]







Post#63 at 07-18-2009 04:29 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-And don't you forget it...
I actually meant that. It also wasn't a compliment.

-Yeah, I'm sure that the some of the denizens of the ex-USSR gain great comfort in convincing themselves that they had the courage and brains to overthrow Communism all by themselves.
Oh sure, not everyone under the Soviet yoke had the courage to sit around drinking German beer, or the brains to train, equip, and fund Osama bin Laden...

But then again, the USSR was so degenerated by the Russian 4T that it didn't take more than the push its subjects were able to give it to make it go away.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#64 at 07-18-2009 05:34 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-That wasn't restricted to some on 'The Right"; I knew what Shi'ite were, when Playwrite still thought it was the Ebonics word for "feces".
Sure you did; just like your current inability to discern Rafsanjani from Ahmadinejad.

If your weren't so thick headed, the point in the post/article is that Rafsanjani is ultimately a pragmatist that looks after his own skin- he wouldn't stick his neck out if the risk/benefit didn't make sense to him. The fact that he's openly suggesting that Khamenei may have been wrong might be the clearest signal yet that things may not have yet settled Ahmadinejad's way; things might still tilt toward Moussavi or even Rafsanjani's way - maybe not today or tomorrow but perhaps in the foreseeable future.

You guys' good/evil polar way of looking at the world can't deal with the nuances and that is at the root of you guys making us look repeatedly like a moronic stumbling giant. Its why we should never, ever, give you dumb-dumbs the keys to the car again.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#65 at 07-19-2009 11:47 AM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...just like your current inability to discern Rafsanjani from Ahmadinejad...
-Uh, I'm not the one who's unable to discern Rafsanjani from Ahmadinejad; I had to point this out to Playwrite:

Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
...Rafsanjaini and Ahmadinejad are from different factions, [so] yes, Rafsanjani would do this [dis' Ahamdinejad] on a lark...
...and then...

Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...things might still tilt toward Moussavi or even Rafsanjani's way - maybe not today or tomorrow but perhaps in the foreseeable future...
-Oh Goody Gumdrops! With Rafsanjani or Mousavi in charge, the result is: Nothing changes. There is an element in the US State Department that tries to play the "Which Guys in Power will be slightly less damaging" game; 99 times out of 100 they get burned; PW must be advocating that.

Well, I guess PW is seriously humping for Rafsanjani.

OTOH, this is a useful suggestion:

Let's Help Iranians Beat the Censors

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124779708428055757.html

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...It also wasn't a compliment...
-I considered the source, and realized that it is a compliment, Mr. Fellow Ambassador:

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...Next time you get pulled over at a random checkpoint in the USA, try telling the cop in a civil voice that he is a "motherfucking useless piece of shit who, in anything but this criminally corrupt fucked-up system would have starved to death long ago for lack of having even the barest minimum value to anyone or anything".... I did that this morning...
...of course, that was when you were still the Rich American Big-Shot.

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...not everyone under the Soviet yoke had the courage to sit around drinking German beer...
-Ah, the self-proclaimed know-it-all. And in which unit did you serve, Justin, where the only courage you needed was to drink German beer? That'd would've been nice...

Oh... let me guess...

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
... or the brains to train, equip, and fund Osama bin Laden...
-I guess that's the way your buddies in the old Soviet Army saw things; they had a hard time telling one "counter-revolutionary bandit" from another.

UBL spent most of his time 1979-1989 raising funds (not getting them them) from the Islamic world was also supporting the Mujhadeen.

We supported anyone in Afghanistan who would kill Russki. Some of the US support went to bad-guys, like Hekmatyar, some went to good-guys, like Ahamad Shah Massood, and everyone in between. When Ivan went back home (FEB 1989), we cut off the funding to everyone, including guys like Massood; some consider that to be the real mistake. Maybe, maybe not. But if it hadn't been for the support we gave guys like Massood before the Soviet pull-out, the Northern Alliance might not have been around to help us after 9/11.

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...But then again, the USSR was so degenerated by the Russian 4T that it didn't take more than the push its subjects were able to give it to make it go away.
-Sure, that would have happened without us dogging them every step of the way, because the normal result of a 4T is degeneration...

And I'd still love to know: When PW was supposedly visiting SE Asia, did he bother to check out the "Anti-War" movement's handiwork in the re-education camps, and in the killing fields? The answer seems to be NO...

And, I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look him up and thank him for his inconvienience...

Maybe on Veteran's Day?


---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows. [/QUOTE]







Post#66 at 07-19-2009 12:09 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
...of course, that was when you were still the Rich American Big-Shot.
...taking my cues from the normal, everyday russian folks I hung around with (think I would have mouthed off to a cop on my own initiative? I was raised in America for crissake! We're afraid of our cops. It took a fair bit of interaction with free people before I was able to start breaking out of my own conditioning...
-Ah, the self-proclaimed know-it-all. And in which unit did you serve, Justin, where the only courage you needed was to drink German beer? That'd would've been nice...
See, unlike some people, I was smart (note: in the sense of paying attention and learning from the world around; the word for that other thing is 'educated') enough to realize that making oneself a piece-of-meat tool for the political class is no vocation for a real man.

Of course, I do have acquaintances who ended up being hunks of meat (on both sides, as it turns out) in Germany back in latter days of the USSR. Whoever was honest with themselves at the time recognized that right there was about the safest place in the world to be, since the political classes recognized that a flare-up there would immediately trigger a war nobody wanted.
It was in the proxy countries where interesting things happened. Germany was a sinecure for NATO and Warsaw Pact forces alike.

Or maybe you have some sort of real examples which demonstrate how the above misses something?

-Sure, that would have happened without us dogging them every step of the way, because the normal result of a 4T is degeneration...
The normal result of a 3T is degeneration. A 4T is when people start to do something about it. You really should read at least one of the books...

anyway, how were they 'dogged' in any significant way? I suppose you got them to pass the 'dry' laws (which, since all legal alcohol sales went straight into government coffers, was a major budgetary blow). And you blew up Chernobyl? (the resettlement and other costs of that were a good half-dozen -- if not more -- nails in the coffin of Soviet finance).
And you birthed and raised a generation who came to power intending to rework their system to its fundaments?

Damn, you were a busy guy back then...
Last edited by Justin '77; 07-19-2009 at 12:13 PM.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#67 at 07-19-2009 02:51 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...anyway, how were they 'dogged' in any significant way?
-This from the guy who mentioned US support to the Afghan Mujahideen in his previous post (even if he got his details a bit off); that was just one of the ways we kept them penned in, over-extended, and actually pushed them backward.

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...See, unlike some people, I was smart... enough to realize that making oneself a piece-of-meat tool for the political class is no vocation for a real man...
-Whatever allows you to look at yourself in the mirror.

And, as I suspected, that translates into "I never served", which is probably why you think of US servicemen as meat, and why you think that the most difficult thing which US servicemen do is drink tasty beverages.

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...Whoever was honest with themselves at the time recognized that [Germany] was about the safest place in the world to be...
1) It turned out OK in hindsight. There would have been a different tune if the Fecal Matter had made contact with the Rotating Oscillator;

2) "Honest with themselves"? You have no way to judge that, do you?

Back to Playwrite:

I'd still love to know: When PW was supposedly visiting SE Asia, did he bother to check out the "Anti-War" movement's handiwork in the re-education camps, and in the killing fields? The answer seems to be NO...

I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look the guy up, and thank him for his inconvienience...

Maybe on Veteran's Day?

---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.

-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows. [/QUOTE]







Post#68 at 07-19-2009 03:02 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-This from the guy who mentioned US support to the Afghan Mujahideen in his previous post (even if he got his details a bit off); that was just one of the ways we kept them penned in, over-extended, and actually pushed them backward.
Was that before or after you blew up Chernobyl?
And, as I suspected, that translates into "I never served", which is probably why you think of US servicemen as meat, and why you think that the most difficult thing which US servicemen do is drink tasty beverages.
Well, you've got the first part backward. But the second part comes from acquaintances who have worn uniforms.
I notice you provided absolutely no counter-examples. No surprise.

1) It turned out OK in hindsight. There would have been a different tune if the Fecal Matter had made contact with the Rotating Oscillator;
You're wrong there. There was no worry then, either, since both sides understood perfectly well that the moment a war broke out in Europe the nukes were going to go flying and everyone on the planet was fucked. So it was clear to everyone on both sides that, of all the places on the earth where conflict might have broken out, the European iron curtain line was the one place where it never would. You couldn't have found a safer, cushier place to sit out your term (hence the term 'sinecure' - look it up).

And if everything did go sideways, everyone else was as dead, as instantly, as the meat-wads in uniform on the curtain (with the temporary exception of the meat-wads turning 8s on the sea bottom). So from that respect, a kid in Nebraska or Novosibirsk was in just as much danger as was a meat-wad in Germany.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#69 at 07-20-2009 03:27 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Out of one side of your mouth comes this -
Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-Uh, I'm not the one who's unable to discern Rafsanjani from Ahmadinejad; I had to point this out to Playwrite:
and out the other side of your mouth come this -

Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
--Oh Goody Gumdrops! With Rafsanjani or Mousavi in charge, the result is: Nothing changes.
You are either illogical or you were confused and thought we were talking about whether one wears tidy-whitties and the other boxer briefs.
-- Either way, you are a moron.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#70 at 07-20-2009 07:12 PM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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I have not been following the news very much lately. However I have read about the riots which occurred in the aftermath of the presidential election there. Iran is half through it's unravelling, like the rest of the Middle East at the moment. Unravelling’s can be times for disintegration of established regimes. On the other hand very little might change as a result of all this.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#71 at 07-21-2009 06:47 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
...Out of one side of your mouth comes this... and out the other side of your mouth come this...
-Rafsanjani & Ahmadinejad are from different factions, and don't get along on every issue, and have differences in style, but when it comes to the West, Israel, nukes, and Islamic control of the state, there's no difference: Tweedledum & Tweedledee.

I hope that clears up Playwrite's confusion.

Hmmm... EVERYONE missed out on the opportunity to comment on a practical proposal like this:

Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
Let's Help Iranians Beat the Censors

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124779708428055757.html
Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
Well, you've got the first part backward. But the second part comes from acquaintances who have worn uniforms...
-Really. And, other than being facetious, which one told you that being in the military consists of sampling the local beverages?

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...I notice you provided absolutely no counter-examples...
-If you go back to those acquaintances who have worn (US) uniforms, and tell them that their time in the military consisted of beer drinking, I think they'd correct you; if not, there are plenty of people who'd love to know what their unit & MOS was! I'd think that most people (other than you, supposedly) realize that military training is dangerous by it's nature (I'm sure you can find the stat's for training injuries & deaths); I'd go further; it's "inconvienient" (which is the real reason most people are afraid of to serve). From what I've seen, an easy session of PT would usually be enough to turn off most people, and then you get to shower, then eat breakfast, and then your day really begins (unless you're in the field, where you don't have to make a major production of waking up (since you never really go to sleep anyway), you skip the formal PT (you'll do enough during the day), and you skip the shower. Huh. I almost forgot the lack of sleep part. "Rose Colored Memories"...

I'm sure that your "acquaintainces" in the Soviet/Russian military wouldn't tell a story that was all that different. As far as the injury/fatality rate during training goes, I know they were worse (partly self-inflicted callousness, partly the hazards of dealing with an army that was almost entirely short-term conscripts); not to mention awful food (ditto), and their psychopathic barracks life (double ditto). Of course, Soviets didn't really miss taking a shower...

Hmmm... Are you really claiming that you didn't have an inkling of any of this, but needed "counter-examples"?! You must have the most cheerful view of military service I have ever seen...

Back to Playwrite:

I'd still love to know: When PW was supposedly visiting SE Asia, did he bother to check out the "Anti-War" movement's handiwork in the re-education camps, and in the killing fields? The answer seems to be NO...

Back to Haymarket':

I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look the guy up, and thank him for his inconvienience...

Maybe on Veteran's Day?

---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows.








Post#72 at 07-22-2009 05:22 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-Really. And, other than being facetious, which one told you that being in the military consists of sampling the local beverages?
Oh, there's more to it than that. You also get to dress up funny and tighten and loosen bolts all day. And walk around, and wait around. Just that, drinking local beers is one of the high parts.
I'd think that most people (other than you, supposedly) realize that military training is dangerous by it's nature (I'm sure you can find the stat's for training injuries & deaths); I'd go further; it's "inconvienient" (which is the real reason most people are afraid of to serve).
Hot-tar roofing is far more dangerous and inconvenient than military training (any number of work-related mortality statistics will help you see that). And moreso, it actually serves a useful purpose -- nobody had to dress me up pretty and tell me over and over again what a hero I was. People who hired me (via the company I worked for for several years) to put a roof on their building actually got real value for their money. I can point to several dozen buildings in the Portland Metro area which stand as they are (at least, in the sense of not leaking and ruining stuff inside every time it rains) in some part because of what I did.
You definitely don't win the danger question (loggers and fishermen take that cake by miles), so it's kind of sad to see you bring it up as if it helped your case.
Again, I ask, what did you do of value in the years you spent as a tax-feeding meat-sack?

I'm sure that your "acquaintainces" in the Soviet/Russian military wouldn't tell a story that was all that different. As far as the injury/fatality rate during training goes, I know they were worse (partly self-inflicted callousness, partly the hazards of dealing with an army that was almost entirely short-term conscripts); not to mention awful food (ditto), and their psychopathic barracks life (double ditto).
You're "sure" of a whole lot. Twain had something to say about your type.
What they have to say about army service is much the same as what americans (and the one australian that I talked to) say about it. It is generally a lot of boring sitting around on one's ass or going through some sort of repetitive motions, interspersed with generally bad food, yelling and getting yelled at, trying to avoid work, and occasionally shooting at stuff (the exception to that being our maintenance guy, who served in the engine room on a rocket submarine in the Pacific -- he didn't get to do any shooting at all).

Hmmm... Are you really claiming that you didn't have an inkling of any of this, but needed "counter-examples"?!
Not counter-examples of what a dumb-ass you were for getting into an unpleasant situation that did no one any good. I can already imagine that, thanks. What I'm looking for is examples of what you, or any other of your contemporary meat-sacks did of any value. Because, drinking beer was at least good for the beer-sellers. But beyond that, you've got nothing -- because there is nothing.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#73 at 07-23-2009 05:49 PM by jamesdglick [at Clarksville, TN joined Mar 2007 #posts 2,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...You definitely don't win the danger question (loggers and fishermen take that cake by miles)...
-Yeah, I've seen "The Most Dangerous Catch" too. IIRC, the fatality rate dropped significantly when they changed the catch policy. A deckhand can also get $5000 for a week's work, after which, they can sleep as much as they like.

Go Norwegians!

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...Hot-tar roofing is far more dangerous and inconvenient than military training (any number of work-related mortality statistics will help you see that)...
-Not having done military training, you wouldn't know.

Stat's:

http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/Death_Rates.pdf

...I'd love to see the stat's on roofers...

Roofing can be more dangerous than night-driving without lights, or handling explosives, or doing a 12-mile ruck march, or fast roping from a helicopter (or rappeling from one, or just sling-loading one, or, hell, being in one), but only if you're stoned, drunk, or stupid. The military is big on eliminating the stoned, the drunk, and the stupid, which I guess from your point of view, has the dis-advantage of lowering the death & injury rate. Damn us.

As for "inconvienient", try hot-taring a roof in full battle rattle, then tell me about it.

Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
...You also get to dress up funny and tighten and loosen bolts all day. It is generally a lot of boring sitting around on one's ass or going through some sort of repetitive motions, interspersed with generally bad food, yelling and getting yelled at, trying to avoid work, and occasionally shooting at stuff (the exception to that being our maintenance guy, who served in the engine room on a rocket submarine [Ballistic Missle Sub'?] in the Pacific -- he didn't get to do any shooting at all)...
-The "Tighten and loosen bolts" you refer to are part of vehical/aircraft/generator/communications systems maintenance; all that expensive gear you undoubtedly gripe about has to be kept up, or failing that, fixed. "A stitch in time, saves nine." BTW, you forgot weapon maintenace; there's nothing quite like cleaning the M16 family of weapons.

Those "repetitive motions" you're referring to were probably individual and unit battle drills. Practice makes perfect. Both Vegetius & Sun Tze had variations on "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war."

Your friends made no mention of PT? No first aid training? No land navigation? Sounds like a flaw in their training schedule.

As for "sitting around", there is an element of "Hurry Up & Wait" in all militaries; I think your friends left the "Hurry Up" part from their stories. Rose colored memories?

Yelling occurs when it looks like someone isn't doing something right, because mistakes get people killed.

As for avoiding work, that occurs with a combination of poor motivation and bad leadership.

You do get to shoot stuff in the Army & the USMC, and sometimes in the Navy & Air Force; the later two services are trying to get back to basics, since they've re-discovered the fact that it's usually a good idea to teach people to kill the enemy before they kill you. This goes back to "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war."

BTW, wrt to the guy who served on a submarine: In your universe, roofing is more dangerous, and inconvenient, than serving on a sub'. Really? So much for the silent service...

We will now take a moment of reflection for all those roofers, who put themeselves on the line, everyday, for you and me.

justin ...What I'm looking for is examples of what you, or any other of your contemporary meat-sacks did of any value...[/QUOTE]

-For one & two: The fact that you were able to leave Russia , and come back to a country that is still free (1) and prosperous (2). And there's also the fact that you could even consider going to a Russia that is no longer Communist in the first place (3). I understand that freedom isn't someting which you can drop on your foot, but I think you understand the basic concept. I think you can understand being alive. The fact that you don't recognize, or appreciate that, might make you a jerk, but you are free to be a jerk (and I am free to point out what a jerk you are), thanks to the people who defend you (and our tax dollars...)

As for the Russki, their military service propped up the most murderous regime of the 20th century; fortunately, we were there to stand in their way.

Oh, I forgot, in your universe, keeping a lid on the bear for 45 years wasn't anywhere near as important as that drop in vodka sales.

Back to Playwrite:

I'd still love to know: When PW was supposedly visiting SE Asia, did he bother to check out the "Anti-War" movement's handiwork in the re-education camps, and in the killing fields? The answer seems to be NO...

Back to Haymarket':

I'd still love to know: Who paid Haymarket's Military Service Tax? Come on, I know you're retired, Haymarket. I'd think it'd be easy to go check out the old county draft records from 1969. You can look the guy up, and thank him for his inconvenience...

Maybe on Veteran's Day?

---
Quote Originally Posted by haymarket martyr View Post
WARNING: The poster known as jamesdglick has a history of engaging in fraud. He makes things up out of his own head and attempts to use these blatant lies to score points in his arguments. When you call him on it, he will only lie further. He has such a reputation for doing this that many people here are cowed into silence and will not acknowledge it or confront him on it.

Anyone who attempts to engage with glick will discover this and find out you have wasted your time and energy on an intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
-So cry many Boomers (self-professed Lefties, mostly) whenever they fail to explain their hypocritical self-justifications, their double-standards, and their double-think forays into evil. Perhaps their consciences bother them, perhaps not. Who knows. [/QUOTE]







Post#74 at 07-24-2009 03:43 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by jamesdglick View Post
-Not having done military training, you wouldn't know.

Stat's:

http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/Death_Rates.pdf

...I'd love to see the stat's on roofers...
It's funny. If you had, you wouldn't have tried to continue the argument -- and the Internet has it all, for those who care to look.
Here you go:
Military sector (this one includes up to 2008)
Productive sector (This one only goes up through '07)

When we compare apples to apples, we see that the noncombat fatality rate for the military (actually, that's not even correct -- soldiers who die when their humvee flips over on them fleeing an ambush are also counted as 'road accident' deaths, but we simply cannot avoid that fact) is in the neighborhood of 30 per 100,000. Farmers, fishermen, loggers, roofers, ironworkers, electricians, truckers, cabbies, and coal miners all come in right at, or far beyond that number. And even at that, civilian-sector mortality has fallen off steeply. Back when you were eating up the taxpayers' money, you were even more significantly safer relative to productive workers than you would be now. Military service has always been a sinecure, other than for those in actual combat (or, to be fair, the guardsmen who do firefighting duty).

Anyway, the argument about who gets hurt more isn't terribly pertinent to the question of use. I mean, you lose that argument anyway, but it doesn't really matter. The point is that, regardless how many handjobs your self-esteem was given, you didn't really do anything of value while you were sucking off the public tit.

BTW, wrt to the guy who served on a submarine: In your universe, roofing is more dangerous, and inconvenient, than serving on a sub'. Really? So much for the silent service...
If, by 'my world', you mean the planet earth during the last couple decades, then the answer is, yes, absolutely. If you want to talk about the world that Tom Clancy writes about, then maybe not.

...What I'm looking for is examples of what you, or any other of your contemporary meat-sacks did of any value...
-For one & two: The fact that you were able to leave Russia , and come back to a country that is still free (1) and prosperous (2). And there's also the fact that you could even consider going to a Russia that is no longer Communist in the first place (3). I understand that freedom isn't someting which you can drop on your foot, but I think you understand the basic concept. I think you can understand being alive.
Still no concrete, but from what you write it is clear that you are claiming to have:
(1)refrained from overthrowing the US government and making everyone slaves (thanks for that; then again, so did I -- so I guess we're even).
(2)somehow during the time of your tax-feeding, created something of value. I still haven't seen you specify it, but you seem [i]really sure[/i that you did.
(3)generated and maintained the Russian generational cycle. (interesting; if that's the case, then I suppose you're responsible for starting communism as well as ending it. Busy guy, you...)
plus, you imply (4)gave birth to me

It would be really nice for you to respond to a request for specifics with some, you know, specifics. But when all you've got is the party line, I suppose you have no choice but to simply flog that for all it's worth.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#75 at 07-24-2009 04:09 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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07-24-2009, 04:09 AM #75
Join Date
Sep 2001
Location
Meh.
Posts
12,182

More on military fatalities.

I found an informative presentation from the Navy.

What's particularly interesting is if you go to page 5 to see what kinds of fatal mishaps are counted as 'non-combat' deaths for soldiers. I'll pull a couple:

At 2030, a 22-year-old E-4 was involved in a motorcycle crash while racing with a 34-year-old E-5. The E-4 lost control and crashed. He died from his injuries on 28 Jun. The E-5 was arrested. Both were under the influence.
LCpl was found unresponsive after a night of drinking.
LCpl who was TAD to Recruiting Substation, died after being involved in a motorcycle accident when
his motorcycle crashed into a building.
Sgt was killed when his vehicle left the road and hit a tree.
One thing you may note about them -- those Brave Defenders Who Risked Their Lives all died completely non-job-related deaths.

A roofer or logger doesn't get counted as an occupational statistic if he plows his motorcycle into a brick wall on the way home from a bar, but a soldier does. From the Navy presentation, it seems safe to conservatively conclude that the actual job-related non-combat fatality rate for the military sector is easily half (if not less) of the ~30 per 100k that they list. Yet another piece of proof that the statistics are inflated to hide the fact that tax-feeding-in-uniform, as a job, is one hell of a safe, cushy gig.
Last edited by Justin '77; 07-24-2009 at 04:15 AM.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky
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