A post from the facebook wall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=av0Dw2t9znc

Originally Posted by millennialX

A post from the facebook wall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=av0Dw2t9znc

Great post! I would hope more people understood what George Galloway is saying. He debunks what the caller is saying in a most intelligent way.

Sometimes I wonder if we continue to have the turnings because most people don't learn from past mistakes. We've been down this war drumming road before with the repeated message of *Fear Iraq, they have weapons of mass destruction.* It appears that the message and intent is the same for Iran. Obviously, those tactics worked once, why not again?

When will we ever learn?

Yours Truly,
Boomer Hippie

I think a lot of the automatic assumptions of irrationality and dangerousness of Iran by Americans has to do with that whole traumatic experience of the hostage takings in 1979 (which I too remember well--"day xxx, still no hope of release" on the news every night), during the Iranian Revolution. A whole generation of us have pretty much been reared not only to hate Iran, but to think that they are a bunch of lunatics incapable of reason or rational thought (because that was how people talked about them during that time, too--they were "crazies"). Like (typical dialogue I've had in arguments):

X: If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, they will nuke Israel!
Me: No they won't, because Israel has over 200 nuclear weapons, and would retaliate unmercifully--that's definitely their way, as they've often shown. Israel doesn't fuck around. Iran knows this, so why would they do something they know would get them totally destroyed?
X: Because they're... uh... crazy, man! They, uh, don't reason the way you or I do!

Yes, their government is hardline Islamist, and yes, they say a lot of hateful things about Israel and the US. The anti-US rhetoric particularly sounds crazy to Americans, because what has our Exceptionally Good country ever done to them (or anyone)? Well, in Iran's case, we aided a coup against their democratically elected Prime Minister, one Dr. Mossadegh, back in the 50s because this guy had the audacity to seek to nationalize his country's oil industry, and, well, we couldn't have that. So, the CIA aided a coup to restore the monarchy (Shah), with Shah Reza Pahlavi. Who was a dictator with a brutal secret police force (SAVAK), and gre to be hated and/or feared by most people in the country. So when they finally had a revolution a generation later and overthrew this dictator, they associated the countries who helped put him there and prop him up (mainly US and UK) with the hated tyrant they just overthrew. Israel also being a staunch ally of the Shah got them some hate too, along with the usual Mideastern resentments against that country (which I agree contain some good-old-fashioned bigotry, and that Israel is used in many other Mideastern countries by the local PTBs as an external whipping boy--but it is what it is). But maybe there was some reasoning behind the US hate, and if we weren't so self-absorbed, self-righteous, or simply complacent as a nation, we'd at least see that "crazy" may have had nothing to do with it. If the shoe were on the other foot, and Iran had aided a coup against one of our elected Presidents and helped install a dictator here, don't you think there'd be hate against them here too, which would be especially articulated by revolutionaries who eventually managed to overthrow that dictator 20-odd years later? Of course there would be, and who would blame us?

Now, revolutions being what they are, they don't guarantee at all "something better", and very arguably they haven't in the case of Iran 1979. I have no illusions at all of that. I think the great demonstrations we saw in 2009 after the supposed "reelection" of Ahmadinejad were perhaps the start of a broader movement to "complete" the revolution, or "correct" it, or in other words a realization that the "freedom" the people were fighting for in ousting the dictator in 1979, still hadn't arrived for them, and so the struggle must continue. If it grows and eventually succeeds, they may have learned enough lessons from their nation's first (at least in modern times, AFAIK) experience with homegrown revolution to make this one actually bring about effective change for the better--real democracy. But we also know that Iranians are a proud patriotic people (much like Americans are), and that they will rally as a nation against invasion or attack from outsiders. Which of course will cement the power of the current regime as dissent will effectively cease in favor of rallying to the flag. And if outsiders do manage to impose "regime change", the people will probably view that the way they viewed the installment of the Shah way back when, and the cycle of resentment and hate starts all over again....

And no one learns a damned thing.

Originally Posted by Tristan

In the past I have spoken about the Middle East (including Israel) being behind places like Europe, North America, Indian Sub-Continent and China on the saeculum.

Just a nit. Israel and Palestine are on the same cycle as North America, Europe, and the Indian sub-continent. Certainly the events that culminated in the establishment of Israel as a Jewish State in May 1948 are the stuff that 4Ts are made of. S&H agreed on this point and I believe that KaiserD2 does, also (you can correct me if I'm wrong).

I found the question posed by the journalist Michael Hirsh, to be important. Yet equally important, if not the least asked crucial question in our Orwellian framed political climate, is below the New York Times quote.


The Atlantic‘s Jeffrey Goldberg and The New York Times‘ Roger Cohen, National Journal‘s Michael Hirsh asks today: “Has the war with Iran already begun?”, and writes:

Two incidents that occurred on Sunday–Iran’s claim of a shoot-down of a U.S. drone, and an explosion outside the British embassy in Bahrain–may have been unrelated. But they appear to add to growing evidence that an escalating covert war by the West is under way against Iran, and that Tehran is retaliating with greater intensity than ever.

Asked whether the United States, in cooperation with Israel, was now engaged in a covert war against Iran’s nuclear program that may include the Stuxnet virus, the blowing-up of facilities and the assassination or kidnapping of scientists, one recently retired U.S. official privy to up-to-date intelligence would not deny it. . . . By accident or not, it’s entirely possible the covert war could escalate into a real one, experts say.

Glen Greenwald asks in response to that article:

Where is the authority to wage a covert, unauthorized war against Iran? That question, of course, matters little, because American political culture accepts that the President’s power should be unfettered in these areas no matter what that old, tired, quaint, obsolete Constitution says. As John Yoo put it: such decisions “are for the President alone to decide.” It’s just extraordinary how little concern is raised over the fact that the U.S. — to some degree or other — is clearly waging a covert war against Iran.

587. A nuclear bombing to justify Iran war (2/10/09)

For the false flag nuclear terror attack planed on 8/30/2007, there was a big pre-psychological propaganda. Here are some. It indicates that the heads of this country determined to nuke US citizens to justify an Iran war as early as May 2007.

Quote, "Pres. Prepares for Possible D.C. Nuke
14-May-2007
On May 10, President Bush issued a national security directive ordering all agencies to prepare for a surprise attack on the Federal government.

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=6203

FBI's Mueller: Bin Laden Wants to Strike U.S. Cities With Nuclear Weapons
Ronald Kessler
Tuesday, May 15, 2007
Osama bin Laden and his terrorist group desperately want to obtain nuclear devices and explode them in American cities, especially New York and Washington, D.C., FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III tells NewsMax.

http://www.newsmax.com/popunders/mainpop_internal.htm

Al-Qaida Plans Nuclear
Attacks on 7 U.S. Cities
NewsMax Wires

Williams maintains that al-Qaida is not content on blowing up one nuclear device or even simply a "dirty" nuke - but wants to explode real nuclear devices in seven U.S. cities simultaneously
http://w3.newsmax.com/a/dayofislam/?PROMO_CODE=34BE-1"

From the news, we learned that:

1. The coming false flag attack would be a nuclear attack which would cause a big loss of lives. The shock and awe would big enough to justify another war when Bush became so notorious for the Iraq war.

2. The false flag would still be Bin Laden and Al Qaida.

3. The inside group targeted at 7 US cities. New York and Washington D.C. were among them.

The 8/30/2007 incident that a B-52 flew US continental with six missiles armed with nuclear head was a soured action. Six nuclear missiles not seven as original planed is because each wing of the B-52 can only install six missiles. The missiles in other wing, un armed, were gone through a security inspection to justify it passed routine safety check.

Washington D.C. was chosen to justify it was a "real terror attack". See, now the dead are not only ordinary people. So many high ranking politicians died too. (That's sad story for those obedient followers. They are sacrifice when the Inside group think it's a necessity. ) Of course, the core member of the plot would have happened been in somewhere else. Just like Bush was in a Florida school and Cheney was in a military base on 911. The following vacuum of disappeared law makers could justify a martial law carried out by the Feds.

New York was chosen because a lot of residents in that city, especially policemen and firemen, with their own experience, knew 911 was a false flag attack. It is a good chance to wipe out a large quantity of witnesses.

8/30/2007 B-52 incident was a big case. It alarms a lot of people. The same tactic obviously can't be used again. But to activate another war, a big justification is needed. Nothing is better than a WMD. Then where can the Feds find the source of the nuclear weapon? Pakistan.

And now a quote from our Noble Peace Prize winning president.

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Thursday the United States was considering all options on Iran and would work with allies, including Israel, to prevent Tehran from acquiring a nuclear weapon.
On Iran, Obama said: "No options off the table means I'm considering all options."

I'm wondering if he can return that prize?

You have to note that a lot of Israeli's are descended from immigrants from the Middle East, not to mention a sizable minority in Israel are ethnic Arabs. I remember S&H mentioning that the "mystical militants" in the Palestinian territories were younger than their American counterparts.

Also even if the 4T in Israel ran from 1940-1960 like that of the middle east as a whole. The Israeli war of independence would still have been a 4T event, although occurring near the start rather than the end. That would put the six day and yom kippur wars in a High era and the war in Lebanon and the intifada in an awakening.

House Passes "Iran Cooties Reduction Act"

On Wednesday evening, the House passed HR 1905, the so-called "Iran Threat Reduction Act," which, among other things, would prohibit contact between U.S. and some Iranian officials. Eleven Members voted no: Amash, Blumenauer, Duncan (TN), Ellison, Kucinich, Barbara Lee, McDermott, Moran, Olver, Stark, Woolsey. The measure now goes to the Senate, where the bill may be stopped or some of its most extreme provisions may still be removed.

The debate on the bill happened Tuesday night. You can watch the debate here:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/HouseSession5288

The debate begins at the 8:05 mark.

At the 8:15 mark, Rep. Kucinich introduced into the Congressional Record Washington Post Ombudsman Patrick Pexton's column noting that the IAEA did not say that Iran is building a nuclear bomb (during the debate, some Members claimed that it did.)

At the 8:37 mark, Rep. Blumenauer noted press reports that new sanctions on Europeans who buy oil from Iran could raise the price of gas in the U.S. by a dollar a gallon.
At 8:50:26, Rep. Berman claimed that "there is nothing in this bill that would prevent Americans from having contact with Iranians," an astonishing claim, given the plain English meaning of Section 601c, cited in the peace groups' letter to the House:

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/1100

Wow, they're still blowing up Iran.

Two more explosions today. One at the big refinery in Isfahan, the other at the very important Revolutionary Guards base in Kerman, which is the headquarters for the RG’s operations in the East (think Afghanistan, etc.).

I don’t have casualty figures yet, but the Kerman blast was a biggie.

I am told that Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei hasn’t made a public appearance in more than two weeks. I don’t have any way to check this, but he certainly hasn’t been hogging the spotlight of late. That role is being played by the Iranian currency, the rial, which is in the same death spiral as the regime. It’s dropped from 1300-and-change to the dollar to 1500-plus in a couple of weeks. Maybe Khamenei doesn’t want to talk about the resounding success of his regime?

Don't know where Ledeen gets his info or how reliable he is, but there it is.

James50

Originally Posted by James50

Wow, they're still blowing up Iran.



Don't know where Ledeen gets his info or how reliable he is, but there it is.

James50

The Company still hard at work I see.

591. Driving Iran into a nuclear weapon trap (3/5/09)

Pakistan now goes the direction the US wants it to go. On 2/6, there was the news:

Disgraced Pakistan nuke scientist freed by court http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090206/...lear_scientist

A secret pact granted freedom to Pakistan nuclear scientist, Abdul Qadeer Khan, who lived under house arrest for allegedly leaking atomic weapons secrets to Iran, North Korea and Libya. It is obviously releasing a bait for Iran. Now the freed nuclear scientist is able to go on with his proliferation mission if there is a buyer. Iran is a potential customer.

Does Iran want to own nuclear weapon? Yes, it does. Does Iran know the danger it faces if it develops atomic bomb? Yes, it does, too. Iran knows it may risk a possible military invasion from US. Then how did Iran solve this problem? To develop the program in Syria, I think. It was a smart strategy. But US won't let it go. So we see the story that Israel bombed a site in Syria in a raid on 9/6/2007. Both countries gave little information about the incident. Syria even denies it, leaves it a mystery. Seven months later, there was a later report:

Quote, "U.S. displays images used to justify Israeli attack on Syria
See as evidence of N.Korea collaboration on reactor
By David E. Sanger New York Times

Washington - The Bush administration released detailed photographic images Thursday to support its assertion that the building in Syria that Israel destroyed in an air-strike last year was a nuclear reactor built with years of help from North Korea."

I believe the nuclear reactor was built for developing nuclear weapon. Iran joined the project because it did not want to take the responsibility of developing nuclear weapon in its land. I had read a news said that after the bombing Iran had sent inspectors to check the ruin site. What surprised me was that North Korea was part of the Trojan Horse plot to frame Iran.

Marching onto war? According to Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell, we are.

US war with Iran 2014 ???

www.youtube.com

Originally Posted by Deb C

And now a quote from our Noble Peace Prize winning president.I'm wondering if he can return that prize?

No deposit, no return.

Ray McGovern weighs in on the Iran situation.

Urging Obama to Stop Rush to Iran War

Saturday 31 December 2011

by: Ray McGovern and Elizabeth Murray, Consortium News

A torrent of war propaganda against Iran is flooding the American political scene as U.S. neocons and Israeli hardliners see an opening for another war in the Middle East, a momentum that ex-CIA analysts Ray McGovern and Elizabeth Murray urge President Obama to stop.

President Obama needs to put an abrupt halt to the game of Persian Roulette about to spin out of control in the Persian Gulf. If we were still on active duty at the CIA, this is what we would tell him:

This informal memorandum addresses the escalating game of chicken playing out in the waters off Iran and the more general issue of what can be done to put the exaggerated threat from Iran in some kind of perspective.

In keeping with the informality of this memo and our ethos of speaking truth to power, we may at times be rather blunt. If we bring you up short, consider it a measure of the seriousness with which we view the unfolding of yet another tragic mistake.The stakes are quite high, and as former intelligence analysts with no axes to grind, we want to make sure you understand how fragile and volatile the situation in the Gulf has become.

We know you are briefed regularly on the play by play, and we will not attempt to replicate that. Your repeated use of the bromide that “everything is on the table,” however, gives us pause and makes us wonder whether you and your advisers fully recognize the implications, if hostilities with Iran spin out of control.

You have the power to stop the madness, and we give you some recommendations on how to lessen the likelihood of a war that would be to the advantage of no one but the arms merchants.If your advisers have persuaded you that hostilities with Iran would bring benefit to Israel, they are badly mistaken. In our view, war with Iran is just as likely in the longer term to bring the destruction of Israel, as well as vast areas of Iran — not even to mention the disastrous consequences for the world economy, of which you must be aware. Incendiary (but false) claims about how near Iran is to having a nuclear weapon are coming “fast and furious,” (and are as irresponsible as that ill-fated project of giving weapons to Mexican drug dealers).

In our view, the endless string of such claims now threaten to migrate from rhetoric to armed clashes to attempted “regime change,” as was the case nine years ago on Iraq. You know, we hope, that influential — but myopic — forces abound who are willing to take great risk because they believe such events would redound to the benefit of Israel. We make reference, of course, to the reckless Likud government in Israel and its equally reckless single-issue supporters here at home.

More on "Inept Advisers":
http://www.truth-out.org/urging-obam...war/1325349237

Iran is not helping matters:

http://www.debka.com/article/21608/

By a media trick, Tehran proved its claim that closing the Strait of Hormuz is as "easy as drinking water," DEBKAfile reports.

First thing Saturday morning, Saturday, Dec. 31, Iran's state agencies "reported" long-range and other missiles had been test-fired as part of its ongoing naval drill around the Strait of Hormuz. Ahead of the test, Tehran closed its territorial waters. For five hours Saturday, not a single warship, merchant vessel or oil tanker ventured into the 30-mile wide Hormuz strait, waiting to hear from Tehran' that the test was over.

Instead, around 0900 local time, a senior Iranian navy commander Mahmoud Moussavi informed Iran's English language Press TV that no missiles had been fired after all. "The exercise of launching missiles will be carried out in the coming days," he said.

For five hours therefore, world shipping obeyed Tehran's warning and gave the narrow waterway through which one-fifth of the world's oil passes, a wide berth. They stayed out of range of a test which, DEBKAfile's military sources report, aimed to demonstrate for the first time that Shahab-3 ballistic missiles which have a range of 1,600 kilometers and other missiles, such as the Nasr1cruise marine missile, are capable of reaching Hormuz from central Iran.

It also addressed the dispatch of the USS John C. Stennis aircraft carrier through the strait into the Sea of Oman in proximity to Iran's ten-day Velayati 90 naval drill. The Stennis, accompanied only by a single destroyer, demonstrated US confidence in its military muscle against any Iranian threat.

As the Stennis passed through the big US air base at al-Udeid, Qatar, went on high alert.

Originally Posted by TeddyR

Iran is not helping matters:

http://www.debka.com/article/21608/

I wonder what the U.S. would do if Iran, or any other country, for that matter, would fly drones over our country and threaten us with all options on the table mentality?

Originally Posted by Deb C

I wonder what the U.S. would do if Iran, or any other country, for that matter, would fly drones over our country and threaten us with all options on the table mentality?

And assassinating members of the American science community. And openly funding terrorist groups acting inside the USA. And blowing things up in American cities. For years.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

And assassinating members of the American science community. And openly funding terrorist groups acting inside the USA. And blowing things up in American cities. For years.

How dare you both. We are the good guys in the white hat. U*S*A U*S*A !!

Originally Posted by TeddyR

How dare you both. We are the good guys in the white hat. U*S*A U*S*A !!

But on a serious note, I'm sure that most Americans can't see the wolf under that white hat.

Originally Posted by Deb C

But on a serious note, I'm sure that most Americans can't see the wolf under that white hat.

I personally prefer this image.



~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

I personally prefer this image.



~Chas'88

Perfect image!

An Act for Iran war.
700. National Defense Authorization Act (1/2/2012)

The Gift of New Year 2012 President Obama gives Americans is a new law that ripped their civil right – NDAA.
1. It is a stealth raid on people.

The Act was proposed in later November, quickly passed by the Senate and the House during the Thanksgiving holiday and Christmas season. It was signed by President on New Year’s Day Eve. It was a typical military style - a stealth attack on civil rights taking the advantage when people were relaxing their vigilance in holiday season.

2. So said mainstream media kept a tight mouth on this important issue. Blind the eyes of a lot of people.

1. Majority of law makers and the President passed the Act. It proves the “politicians” don't represent the voice of the people. It also proves the election system has been hijacked by the intelligence already. The so said representatives are not elected by the voters but selected by the rulers of this country.

1. Beware the Feds to turn the US into a “battle field” so they could eliminate the dissenters. It’s easy for them to do so – just plant a few provocateurs in Occupy Wall Street Movement.

1. War on Iran is their major goal. With great possibility, there will be false flag nuclear attacks on US cities to justify the Iran war. Most people realize the truth of the 911 attack. This law is created to deal with the people who won’t believe this government anymore when such “terror attack” happens again.

Looks like a precautionary deployment.

"Calling it not just an “exercise”, but a “deployment”, the Jerusalem Post quotes US Lt.-Gen Frank Gorenc, Commander of the US Third Air Force based in Germany. The US Commander visited Israel two weeks ago to confirm details for “the deployment of several thousand American soldiers to Israel.” In an effort to respond to recent Iranian threats and counter-threats, Israel announced the largest ever missile defense exercise in its history."

"Now, it’s reported that the US military, including the US Navy, will be stationed throughout Israel, also taking part."

"While American troops will be stationed in Israel for an unspecified amount of time, Israeli military personnel will be added to EUCOM in Germany. EUCOM stands for United States European Command."

Originally Posted by Deb C

Looks like a precautionary deployment.

"Calling it not just an “exercise”, but a “deployment”, the Jerusalem Post quotes US Lt.-Gen Frank Gorenc, Commander of the US Third Air Force based in Germany. The US Commander visited Israel two weeks ago to confirm details for “the deployment of several thousand American soldiers to Israel.” In an effort to respond to recent Iranian threats and counter-threats, Israel announced the largest ever missile defense exercise in its history."

"Now, it’s reported that the US military, including the US Navy, will be stationed throughout Israel, also taking part."

"While American troops will be stationed in Israel for an unspecified amount of time, Israeli military personnel will be added to EUCOM in Germany. EUCOM stands for United States European Command."

I didn't think we were going to have a war with Iran. I am now convinced we will, and maybe very soon, like weeks, not months from now. I don't know how serious Iran is, but the odds of a miscalculation by the US, Israel, Europe or Iran are very high right now.

Maybe our 4T issue is really oil. It ties out to so many things we have been wrestling with domestically and internationally since Nixon.

History may question why the US didn't take the post cold war defense spending and invest in technology to break the dependence on oil, rather than "nation building" and policing international waterways.